America under President Trump

[Dougie93]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Yes. Apparently FDR even used the term 'concentration camp' himself for a similar project in Hawaii. I'm just saying that such practices pre-date the Nazis. 

The practice was instituted by the British, including Canadians, in the Boer War.

The Boer Commando operated from the Veldt, but they used their farms and homesteads to resupply.

So the British adopted a Scorched Earth policy.

Rounded up all their families and put them in overcrowded camps and basically left them to die of neglect,  to try to force the Boer to submit.

These were called Concentration Camps.

The Nazis had both Concentration Camps and Extermination Camps.

What happened was the Nazis had so many people in Concentration Camps that the mass disease began to spread to the guards and from the guards to the army in the field.

This is when they went to Wansee, where the Final Solution of the Extermination Camp was born.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

On the correlation between mass shootings and high levels of gun ownership: https://globalnews.ca/news/5734954/gun-ownership-mass-shootings-united-states/

Edited August 9, 2019 by Zeitgeist

[Yzermandius19]

15 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

On the correlation between mass shootings and high levels of gun ownership: https://globalnews.ca/news/5734954/gun-ownership-mass-shootings-united-states/

How does that correlation compare to the correlation between mass shootings and population density, less or more? 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

How does that correlation compare to the correlation between mass shootings and population density, less or more? 

I would also like to know how mass shootings and single shootings relate to average income levels of communities.  Probably more tellingly, I’d like to know if there’s a relationship between levels of gun violence and economic disparity within communities.  By that I mean communities where wealthy and poor live near each other, because I remember reading research showing that high crime areas are not generally low income (or high income) communities, but communities where lower income people see wealth in their communities, which is why societies with large income disparities, as in many South American countries, require more gated communities and private security details.  A society that promotes or allows major income disparity is a more dangerous society.

 

[Yzermandius19]

Also how does the correlation between mass shootings and stricter levels of gun control compare to mass shootings and gun ownership? Something tells me the correlation between gun ownership and mass shootings will pale in comparison to other much stronger correlations elsewhere. I wonder why global didn't look into that? Could it be they are trying to push an anti-gun narrative, probably has something to do with it.

[dialamah]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Also how does the correlation between mass shootings and stricter levels of gun control compare to mass shootings and gun ownership? Something tells me the correlation between gun ownership and mass shootings will pale in comparison to other much stronger correlations elsewhere.

If those stronger correlations are out there, I'm sure you can find them if you look.   I did, through one google search - found other correlations, though I wouldn't consider them 'much stronger', more like part of the whole picture.   You could present some researched information, instead of simply "assuming" there's an agenda at work when you aren't spoon fed the information you want.

 

[Yzermandius19]

37 minutes ago, dialamah said:

If those stronger correlations are out there, I'm sure you can find them if you look.   I did, through one google search - found other correlations, though I wouldn't consider them 'much stronger', more like part of the whole picture.   You could present some researched information, instead of simply "assuming" there's an agenda at work when you aren't spoon fed the information you want.

 

I did the research, I already know the answer, I just don't care enough to re-look it up right now, especially when you will just claim that more guns is the bigger factor, no matter what evidence is presented.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[dialamah]

36 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I did the research, I already know the answer, I just don't care enough to re-look it up right now, especially when you will just claim that more guns is the bigger factor, no matter what evidence is presented.

Right ... you aren't one for supporting your arguments, I momentarily forgot.  Basically not worth paying attention to.  

[Yzermandius19]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Right ... you aren't one for supporting your arguments, I momentarily forgot.  Basically not worth paying attention to.  

Take it or leave it, I care not. I support my arguments with citations as I see fit, but if you need someone else to make your argument for you, you don't have a very good argument.

People on forums like this either put too much stock in appeals to authority as the only arguments worth listening to, which is boring, or they dismiss your source out of hand because it doesn't line up with their confirmation bias, which is also boring. Citations are super overrated, they are often the crutch of people who parrot arguments of others and can't think for themselves.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yzermandius19

[Dougie93]

In my opinion, employing academic studies to try to overthrow the second amendment is folly which will incite civil disorder and right wing reactionary violence on a whole nother order of magnitude, many more mass shootings, executed by units of shooters, fully militarized.

For example 360 degree four way sniper ambush from the high ground is a no escape zone, the more revolutionary this becomes the more lethal.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

In my opinion, employing academic studies to try to overthrow the second amendment is folly which will incite civil disorder and right wing reactionary violence on a whole nother order of magnitude, many more mass shootings, executed by units of shooters, fully militarized.

For example 360 degree four way sniper ambush from the high ground is a no escape zone, the more revolutionary this becomes the more lethal.

Listen to yourself.  It’s worrisome.  

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Listen to yourself.  It’s worrisome.  

I'm not worried, no fears on earth, I walk tall and put my faith in the Lord.

[taxme]

21 hours ago, GostHacked said:

So you do advocate for tougher gun laws. At least we agree on that.  And what we need is to prevent those kinds of deaths in the first place. But I have no problem with a long minimum sentence. I am on the fence about capital punishment.

Right, but this last shooter obtained his guns legally I think. A few simple hoops to jump through could have prevented him getting one legally.  Yes you can ALWAYS get things illegally.  But if you are incompetent in safely handling a firearm , there is no way I would sign you off on owning a gun. Lots of unnecessary gun deaths attributed to unsafe storage and unsafe handling. Dumb really.

Most of the mass shootings in the USA in the past 20 years have been legal gun owners I believe. I know this point can easily be overlooked.  So now we have two things we agree on. Tougher laws, and gun flea markets should be banned.

Increase the price on it and most people will simply be not interested in owning one period.  Again, does not do anything for the black market. Part of which we've seen the US government directly contributing to it. (Fast and Furious).

Since I don't see a good reason to own a gun in the first place. But I would treat it like expensive custom tools.

And how can people prevent gun violence? Since my proposals sucked, let's hear yours.

2. Where are all the drug gang banger members getting their guns in Canada? There is no way any laws created will ever stop gun shootings. Gun laws are useless and a waste of taxpayer's tax dollars. We have laws under the criminal code of Canada that deals with anyone who hurts or kills someone. Gun laws mean just more laws on the books. Gun laws are really dumb. They are only there to make it appear as though your politicians are tying to pretend to want to do something about gun violence. The only way gun violence can be eliminated is to have no guns allowed at all in Canada and that would have to include guns for target shooting and rifles for hunting. Not going to work. 

4. Increasing the price on buying a gun or rifle will only cost gun owners to have to pay more money. Hunters and target practice guns will still be bought no matter what. Vehicles go up every year in price but people will still buy a car. If they want a gun or car bad enough they will pay for it no matter how much more money they will have to pay for it. 

5. Hunters and target shooters will differ with you on that one. They want to own a gun for their fun. Whether guns are cheap or expensive mass shootings and killings will still go on and on. Making guns and rifles expensive will not stop mass shootings. 

6. Nobody can prevent gun violence. Only the person who wants to commit gun violence can do that. I already told you as to where I stand on the gun violence issue. I can say no more. 

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

Listen to yourself.  It’s worrisome.  

Perhaps but it affirms the profile of these people.  Democracy and laws are sacrosanct unless they are changed to something unacceptable to them, then it's time to murder.

All for a few toys.

What a shitty country.

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

On the correlation between mass shootings and high levels of gun ownership: https://globalnews.ca/news/5734954/gun-ownership-mass-shootings-united-states/

From that article:

Quote

 

That dwarfed Yemen’s gun ownership levels, where there were 54.8 firearms per 100 people.

Switzerland, Finland and Serbia came after.

All five countries ranked in the world’s top 15 for public mass shooters per capita.

 

So the top 5 countries in the world in gun ownership are in the top 15 in mass shooters per capita.... Top 5 are in the top 15.... So there are ten countries in the top 15 that aren't in the top 5. Where do they rank? 

 

TBH, at the root of this, is the acknowledgement that something bad is happening. Shootings, and mass shootings. 

For those who think that getting rid of all guns is the answer, look how many people a terrorist can kill with a rental van. Think of how many people are killed with knives and other things. How long will it take to end the problem of criminals with guns? Criminals will still have guns long after all the law-abiding citizens ditch them. Think of whether or not people's homes will be less safe in general when it becomes widely known that no one has guns anymore. Would you like to live in the country, 30 minutes from law enforcement, and be forbidden to have a gun, while knowing that plenty of gang bangers own them? 

[SpankyMcFarland]

Here’s one employer the authorities should investigate:

 

Quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/if-youre-a-good-worker-papers-dont-matter-how-a-trump-construction-crew-has-relied-on-immigrants-without-legal-status/2019/08/09/cf59014a-b3ab-11e9-8e94-71a35969e4d8_story.html?noredirect=on

:

 

 

[-TSS-]

The genie is out of the bottle when the USA and guns is concerned. If there ever is a president Kamala Harris, or something similar, declaring that guns will be collected from people you would soon realise that the talk of a second civil-war isn't tin-foil hat talk at all.

[WestCanMan]

Guns in Tarana.

I just posted about carding in here yesterday or the day b4.

https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/killing-carding-the-deadly-toll-of-putting-street-checks-on-ice

Quote

Back in 2013, when the controversial practice known as carding was increasingly coming under fire over racial profiling concerns, Toronto Police conducted 196,907 street checks — a year that saw 22 gun murders.

Then:

Quote

Homicides at 81 this year are headed toward a new record in Toronto, 42 of them gun murders — almost double the rate seen in 2013.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Mass shootings are a tiny percentage of firearms related homicides and suicides in the United States, as are the so called "assault rifles" used in such shootings.

Media and politicians spend a lot of time and energy on "mass shootings" compared to the slow drip of much more prevalent gun deaths each day.

[egghead]

3 hours ago, -TSS- said:

The genie is out of the bottle when the USA and guns is concerned. If there ever is a president Kamala Harris, or something similar, declaring that guns will be collected from people you would soon realise that the talk of a second civil-war isn't tin-foil hat talk at all.

I want gun control too/ The problem with gun control law is that the lawmarkers in the city want to have a blanket law, and It will not fly.

What shall people do without gun?

Quote

Video captures Alabama homeowner pulling a gun on a would-be burglar after he caught the man trying to break in

https://videos.dailymail.co.uk/video/mol/2019/08/09/4680073091973268233/1024x576_MP4_4680073091973268233.mp4

 

[GostHacked]

12 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Mass shootings are a tiny percentage of firearms related homicides and suicides in the United States, as are the so called "assault rifles" used in such shootings.

Media and politicians spend a lot of time and energy on "mass shootings" compared to the slow drip of much more prevalent gun deaths each day.

I think cops are killing more people than the criminals. Police fatal shootings have skyrocketed the past 10 years.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

922 in 2018 according to this and so far 445 in 2019.

https://www.inverse.com/article/58332-police-use-of-force-homicides-study

Quote

They determined that police violence is one of the leading causes of death of young men in the United States. Overall, it’s estimated that the mortality rate is about 1.8 per 100,000 for men between the ages of 25 and 29. This ranks police use-of-force as the sixth leading cause of death for young men, placing it behind other public health issues like suicide and “accidents” — a category that includes drug overdoses and car accident deaths.

“Police are a substantial cause of death in the United States across groups,” first author Frank Edwards, Ph.D., tells Inverse. “They are contributing to early mortality for lots of people. Prior to this study, we didn’t fully appreciate the scale of that.”

Seems there is a bigger conversation regarding guns that need to happen.

 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, GostHacked said:

I think cops are killing more people than the criminals. Police fatal shootings have skyrocketed the past 10 years.

 

 

Yeah, but a lot of them had it coming.  Not many cops wander into a Walmart and open fire indiscriminately.

[GostHacked]

24 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Yeah, but a lot of them had it coming.  Not many cops wander into a Walmart and open fire indiscriminately.

No these people are getting shot to death at traffic stops where cops love to escalate things. IN their own homes when cops get the wrong address. Or tend to investigate and search a home without a warrant or good reason.

Most cops in the USA do not seem friendly at all.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

No these people are getting shot to death at traffic stops where cops love to escalate things. IN their own homes when cops get the wrong address. Or tend to investigate and search a home without a warrant or good reason.

Most cops in the USA do not seem friendly at all.

I don't blame them.  Cop and high school teacher.  Who the hell would want those jobs?

I said a lot of them.  I think that point stands.

[scribblet]

Lucky for the people in this Walmart the off duty firefighter had a gun.    Meanwhile, Toronto Mayor John Tory wants to ban all hand guns but no talk about stopping crime.     I actually thought they allready were banned in Toronto, but really, how will stop the criminals from getting them.   They need to work on how they get the guns across the border and stopping them at the source. 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/man-detained-walking-missouri-walmart-armed-rifle-wearing/story?id=64870120