Trucker's Convoy

[Winston]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Because you have no answer.  You support the anti-science, anti-authority Covid deniers.  Don't answer then.

I think consent should be apart of the COVID mandate discussion, that is my position.

[WestCanMan]

25 minutes ago, Winston said:

If you want to rally the public, keep things simple and objective. One or two objectives at a time at most. It also helps to solidify a position against those that hold opposing viewpoints.  

I understand there are many other issues at play.

The gov't and MSM are coming at freedom folks with accusations of white supremacism, misogyny, denial of science, fascism, violent extremism, violations of the sanctity of dead soldiers' graves, debasing Terry Fox statues, etc. 

You want to just ignore their high-handed enforcement of known lies? No thanks. The MSM might not ever cover it, but it's important for people to remember the length and breadth of this issue when they're holding their ground. 

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Because you have no answer.  You support the anti-science, anti-authority Covid deniers.  Don't answer then.

You still have some answering to do blackbird. You're in no position to be throwing around grand accusations when you're backing the only people that we know for sure are liars. 

[CITIZEN_2015]

38 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You don’t have your facts straight at all.  It’s 56 deaths today in Ontario and the hospitalization rate is falling.  Our death rate is the result of our higher case numbers a while back.  It doesn’t matter.  The province couldn’t process all the tests or get enough tests out to people. The guidance on testing had to change. The case numbers are far higher than reported due to lack of testing.  Covid is everywhere.  It’s come through my organization.  I’m sure thousands of people didn’t know they had it or thought it was something else because the symptoms were mild.

To protect yourself you have multiple vaccines and more masks than we know what to do with.  We don’t need any further restrictions, mandates, use of passports, or other across the board measures to fight Covid.  Even the screening is killing us, forcing people who aren’t sick and their household members to stay home, making staffing difficult.

The frontline workers aren’t scared of getting Covid or overwhelmed by cases.  They’re burnt out from wearing all this crap and maintaining obsessive-compulsive, over the top protocols.

End all restrictions and mandates immediately!  Restore freedoms.  Respect the Charter.  This is Canada!

The death numbers were for Canada as of last week and new cases for Ontario. as of yesterday

Government has the power to declare emergency Act in emergencies.

[Michael Hardner]

12 minutes ago, Winston said:

1. Elaborate please?

 

1. Forced vaccine is what they do in China: a soldier holds your arm and another one jabs you.  If you want to come up with better terms to differentiate that and not being allowed in a booth at Swiss Chalet please go ahead.

Otherwise, you are just like the 1970s Marxists demanding others use your language to describe the world we all live in.

-----

You are living in a world where people would go to jail for smoking pot not long ago.  That had no effect on anyone else other than the user and it was ok with people...

[blackbird]

13 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's all just bluster.

Vaccinated people are getting as sick as anyone else right now. 

Over 500 'fully protected' people have died in Canada in the last month. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/ In late Dec there were 981 deaths by fully vaxed, now there are over 1,500.

I don't have to tell you that they lie. You know that they lie.

Is H2H occurring? 

Is it really racist and stupid to consider that a BSL4 lab was the source of the virus, and not a wet market?

The vaccines were promised to be safe before we got them. Why isn't the J&J vax here anymore? The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are both KNOWN to cause myocarditis. Is J&J what you'd call "safe"? Pfizer? Moderna?

When you watch Global, CTV and CBC you're told that kids need to be vaxed to fight of covid, but that's a lie too: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228632/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-age/ Only 27 people from 10,000,000 under-20s in this country died so far. Does that scream "we need to vaccinate these people!" to you? Would you take a vax with serious side-effects to avoid a 27/10,000,000 chance of dying? Cars are 50x as dangerous for kids. If your kid needs a vax, they should never go in a car. 

 

 

I don't "think" that the government is lying. I know it, and I just proved it. Don't ever sit there and act like you don't know whether or not the gov't is lying to you about this. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to believe them right now. 

I'm saying that stats don't lie. 

If you think that my stats are a lie then find "the true stats" blackbird. Let's see what stats you can find that shows a whole shwack of young, healthy dead Canadians under 20. It's put up or shut up time. 

1.  Not correct.  There are lower percentages of vaccinated people with Covid in the hospitals per capita when you factor in that 80% or 90% of the population who have been vaccinated.  Or there are more unvaccinated in hospitals with Covid per capita.  Google it.

2.  Pointless to debate the source of the virus here.  We don't know for sure where it came from.

3.  The chances of myocarditis from the vaccine is extremely low.  The chances of catching Covid is far greater than the harm that comes from vaccination.  They are also able to treat myocarditis.

4.  One of the main reasons for children being vaccinated is because they are spreaders of the virus and can take it home to their aging relatives many of whom are immuno-compromised and may die if they get Covid.  Sure the chance of a kid dying from Covid are far less; the chances of them spreading to others is very high.  That's the reason they need to be vaccinated.

5.  The government is not lying. That is absurd.  They are acting to protect the populations.  They may not have been perfect in every decision they made over the last two years, but they are doing the best they can and there would be thousands more deaths if they did nothing.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by blackbird

[myata]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

So you categorically reject the medical science that says vaccinated people are less likely to spread Covid than unvaccinated people.  That's the point.  That's the reason for vaccine mandates.  Check the medical science.

This is not a serious discussion. By this logic any condition with slightly higher chance of negative outcome justifies forced or coerced intervention. This has been noted many times before and you aren't adding anything new so I think I'm not going to spend any more of my time on you, it just doesn't worth it.

[Aristides]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

So if you are vaccinated, you have X % level of protection, correct?

And we all know now that BOTH the vaccinated and the unvaccinated spread covid.

The virus comes along.

Are you telling me that a Vaccinated person's coronavirus will NOT infect you, but an Unvaccinated person's coronavirus will?

I'm telling you that the vaccinated and unvaccinated risk very different outcomes after they become  infected.

[EastCanada90]

19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

That's all just bluster.

Vaccinated people are getting as sick as anyone else right now. 

Over 500 'fully protected' people have died in Canada in the last month. 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/ In late Dec there were 981 deaths by fully vaxed, now there are over 1,500.

I don't have to tell you that they lie. You know that they lie.

Is H2H occurring? 

Is it really racist and stupid to consider that a BSL4 lab was the source of the virus, and not a wet market?

The vaccines were promised to be safe before we got them. Why isn't the J&J vax here anymore? The Pfizer and Moderna jabs are both KNOWN to cause myocarditis. Is J&J what you'd call "safe"? Pfizer? Moderna?

When you watch Global, CTV and CBC you're told that kids need to be vaxed to fight of covid, but that's a lie too: https://www.statista.com/statistics/1228632/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-age/ Only 27 people from 10,000,000 under-20s in this country died so far. Does that scream "we need to vaccinate these people!" to you? Would you take a vax with serious side-effects to avoid a 27/10,000,000 chance of dying? Cars are 50x as dangerous for kids. If your kid needs a vax, they should never go in a car. 

 

 

I don't "think" that the government is lying. I know it, and I just proved it. Don't ever sit there and act like you don't know whether or not the gov't is lying to you about this. You'd have to be a complete and total idiot to believe them right now. 

I'm saying that stats don't lie. 

If you think that my stats are a lie then find "the true stats" blackbird. Let's see what stats you can find that shows a whole shwack of young, healthy dead Canadians under 20. It's put up or shut up time. 

 

stop sprerading you mis information its already proven that  vaxed people  are at less chance to die and be hospitalized then unvaxed people jesus..   you western  people are beyond annoying on here.

[WestCanMan]

26 minutes ago, blackbird said:

West Can Man has already said the whole Covid thing (the health measures) is a lying narrative.  You claimed to believe in science.  If you really believe in science, why are you agreeing with people who deny the medical science?

Don't put words in my mouth. Some of the health measures are not unreasonable.

I know that wearing masks isn't entirely effective, but I think that in any event it will help somewhat, and even if it just 'might' help, it's a small thing to ask. 

People over 80 should definitely be vaccinated, but in their instance, they should be able to identify the strong need for extra protection and they will almost all choose to get vaxed. If their vax rate hits 95% then that's enough imo. 

People between 5-30 could opt to get vaccinated, but the vaccine isn't likely to confer any benefits on them, and they will still spread covid if they're exposed to it, so why should it be mandated for them? Why should there be undue pressure on them to take a chance with the vaxes?

[blackbird]

12 minutes ago, West said:

Actually no they were implemented because supposedly the vaccine stopped transmission (or so we were told). We know that is false but now they've shifted the goalposts. 

If the main issue is hospitalization, then you wouldn't do coerced injections for the masses as the majority of hospitalizations are thlse with comorbidies, not the average unvaccinated person. 

Yet nobody talks about that as it's inconvenient. Instead we threaten people into vaccines to attend university or go to a restaurant. 

And still they close you down in some places even as vaccine % tips 90%. 

As I have said many times, nobody claims the vaccine stops transmission.  We were never told it would completely stop transmission.  Experts tell us it reduces transmission.  Big difference between stops and reduces.  The reason for mandates for various jobs and the reason for passports is to reduce the transmission.  Vaccinated people are less likely to be carrying the virus because the body builds a resistance to the virus.  It offers the best protection from spread along with masks and other measures.

Edited January 30, 2022 by blackbird

[Goddess]

32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would say forced vaccine says you are physically vaccinated against your will, period.

So.....If a mugger says "Gimme your wallet or I'll stab you" and you willingly hand over your wallet.....That's not a mugging?  Because you WILLINGLY gave over your wallet?

[myata]

36 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I would say forced vaccine says you are physically vaccinated against your will, period.

I heard terms like "psychological violence", "emotional violence" that does not involve physical action. Would a threat to lose income, not being able to see loved ones, worry and anxiety associated with it constitute psychological or emotional violence? Or these concepts do not exist? Please.

[blackbird]

20 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You still have some answering to do blackbird. You're in no position to be throwing around grand accusations when you're backing the only people that we know for sure are liars. 

You call government leaders and health authorities liars?  How rational is that?  Where do you get your knowledge from,  conspiracy theorist websites?

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, Goddess said:

So.....If a mugger says "Gimme your wallet or I'll stab you" and you willingly hand over your wallet.....That's not a mugging?  Because you WILLINGLY gave over your wallet?

That's what's called FALSE EQUIVALENCY!

[Goddess]

15 minutes ago, Aristides said:

I'm telling you that the vaccinated and unvaccinated risk very different outcomes after they become  infected.

Great.

Then we agree that neither of us is helping or harming the other.  The risk is each our own.

You take your risks based on yourself

I'll take my risks based on me.

[blackbird]

17 minutes ago, West said:

That's precisely what was said by media outlets and their experts during the vaccine push last year. 

And again it's not true they are less likely to be infected. 

Masks are useless especially the cloth masks that we've all been wearing for two years. Medical experts were saying that until the masknissue was politicized

Get a better mask.  N95.  I have never used cloth masks.  Always use something close to or similar to N95.  Bought a few ten or fifteen years ago for shop work.  But you should be able to find them on the internet or possibly in a drugstore or hardware.

Edited January 30, 2022 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

1.  Not correct.  There are lower percentages of vaccinated people with Covid in the hospitals per capita when you factor in that 80% or 90% of the population who have been vaccinated.  Or there are more unvaccinated in hospitals with Covid per capita.  Google it.

Everything that I said was 100% correct, so you're lying, and you haven't addressed those stats at all.

You want to have a discussion that's entirely based on your opinions and you're discounting the only thing that really matters - the statistics. 

Quote

2.  Pointless to debate the source of the virus here.  We don't know for sure where it came from.

But it's never pointless to remember who lied to you. That actually matters, a lot.

Quote

3.  The chances of myocarditis from the vaccine is extremely low.  The chances of catching Covid is far greater than the harm that comes from vaccination. 

The chances of kids getting extremely sick from covid is also extremely low. We also have no clue what the long-term side effects might be. That's what makes it a personal choice. 

Quote

They are also able to treat myocarditis.

Not at all. They successfully treat myocarditis in about 81% of all cases. 

Quote

4.  One of the main reasons for children being vaccinated is because they are spreaders of the virus and can take it home to their aging relatives many of whom are immuno-compromised and may die if they get Covid.  Sure the chance of a kid dying from Covid are far less; the chances of them spreading to others is very high.  That's the reason they need to be vaccinated.

Who cares? You don't vaccinate kids to keep octogenarians safe. It's completely unreasonable. 

Quote

5.  The government is not lying. That is absurd.  They are acting to protect the populations.  They may not have been perfect in every decision they made over the last two years, but they are doing the best they can and there would be thousands more deaths if they did nothing.

They absolutely did lie. I showed you exactly where they lied. You just chose to accept their lies and then to accept their next statements as 'most likely true'. That's 'actually stupid'. 

Do you honestly think that they didn't know H2H was occurring when they were saying that H2H wasn't occurring? Was it even useful to guesstimate that? "It's a pandemic, but let's not err on the side of caution". Their shitty guess killed a couple million people. 

Do you honestly think that the BSL4 lab leak theory was batshit crazy conspiracy talk that should get people banned from social media? 

The bat-pangolin wetmarket theory was a long-winded farce that sounded stupid and we now know it to be a falsehood. Was that a useful story to put out there? Why was it a kook theory to believe in the BSL4 lab leak before Bill Maher said it? 

Do you honestly think that they knew in advance that the vaccines would be safe [it was a lie] and that they'd be effective at stopping the spread? [lie] Our society is between 80%-95% vaccinated and covid is still spreading like wildfire. Let's stop pretending that vaccination is gong to get us to herd immunity. It's just getting us to 80%-95% vaccinated. That's it.

Demand truth from your government, or at least an "I don't know" instead of stupid, blatant lies that we have to repeat if we don't want to get banned from social media. 

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, West said:

N95s have to be properly fitted to be effective. Probably not going to happen therefore they are just face decoration.

That's true.  Just make sure it fits as tightly as possible and try to make sure it is sealed as best as possible around the edges and over the nose.  I know some masks don't fit very tightly.  Try to find a good fitting mask.

[WestCanMan]

14 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You call government leaders and health authorities liars?  How rational is that?  Where do you get your knowledge from,  conspiracy theorist websites?

I didn't call them liars. I showed you examples of them lying. 

Don't pretend that you don't remember when they were telling you that the lab leak theory was nothing more than conspiratorial bullshit. 

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Everything that I said was 100% correct, so you're lying, and you haven't addressed those stats at all.

You want to have a discussion that's entirely based on your opinions and you're discounting the only thing that really matters - the statistics. 

But it's never pointless to remember who lied to you. That actually matters, a lot.

The chances of kids getting extremely sick from covid is also extremely low. We also have no clue what the long-term side effects might be. That's what makes it a personal choice. 

Not at all. They successfully treat myocarditis in about 81% of all cases. 

Who cares? You don't vaccinate kids to keep octogenarians safe. It's completely unreasonable. 

They absolutely did lie. I showed you exactly where they lied. You just chose to accept their lies and then to accept their next statements as 'most likely true'. That's 'actually stupid'. 

Do you honestly think that they didn't know H2H was occurring when they were saying that H2H wasn't occurring? Was it even useful to guesstimate that? "It's a pandemic, but let's not err on the side of caution". Their shitty guess killed a couple million people. 

Do you honestly think that the BSL4 lab leak theory was batshit crazy conspiracy talk that should get people banned from social media? 

The bat-pangolin wetmarket theory was a long-winded farce that sounded stupid and we now know it to be a falsehood. Was that a useful story to put out there? Why was it a kook theory to believe in the BSL4 lab leak before Bill Maher said it? 

Do you honestly think that they knew in advance that the vaccines would be safe [it was a lie] and that they'd be effective at stopping the spread? [lie] Our society is between 80%-95% vaccinated and covid is still spreading like wildfire. Let's stop pretending that vaccination is gong to get us to herd immunity. It's just getting us to 80%-95% vaccinated. That's it.

Demand truth from your government, or at least an "I don't know" instead of stupid, blatant lies that we have to repeat if we don't want to get banned from social media. 

You think government and anyone who disagrees with you is lying.  Not much anyone can say.  You will have to carry on in your delusions.  You simply don't want the facts or anything that changes your mind.

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Winston said:

If the unvaccinated are treated differently, in terms of freedom to attend a restaurant, they hold different freedoms than those who are vaccinated. Coerced or forced vaccine acceptance is extortion.

Agreed, but generally those rights are lost after court decision, with ample time and legal support. Are you referring to something else? 

 

It’s two-tier citizenship.  Canada isn’t a free country right now.  The Queen should dissolve Parliament.  Trudeau has no sense of history.  Out of his depth.

 

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

The vaccine mandates have increased the number of people vaccinated, which is one of the main reasons they are implemented.  The other main reason is to protect the people who are working in the industries from catching Covid.  Vaccination is known to reduce the chances of spread. The more people that are vaccinated the lower the spread of the virus.  The hospital system is over loaded, thousands of people are on hold for life-saving surgeries and hospital nurses and doctors are burned out.   Many people awaiting surgery have died. The whole reason for such things as mandates is to save the health care system and save people's lives and health.  But if you think everything any experts or authorities say is a lie, there's not much anyone can say to you.  What would convince you?

When you call the health measures and mandates a lying narrative you show you don't believe in medical science.  

Yup it’s two-tier citizenship in Canada.   Should the unvaccinated wear identifiers so you can avoid them on the street?

What other public goods should we mandate?   It’s been done before.  Forced sterilizations of developmentally delayed people?  Segregation or internment of races and religious groups?

We’re living under a quasi-dictatorship.  

Canada’s Charter of Rights and Freedoms is actively being violated.  Why enshrine rights without enforcing them?

Edited January 30, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[OftenWrong]

27 minutes ago, blackbird said:

That's true.  Just make sure it fits as tightly as possible and try to make sure it is sealed as best as possible around the edges and over the nose.  I know some masks don't fit very tightly.  Try to find a good fitting mask.

Try wearing it for a whole day at school or work. These masks are uncomfortable and not made to be worn for prolonged periods.

If they are adjusted to allow it to leak as most people do, they’re no better than any other mask. They dont protect from fine vapour. That means they are also a waste of time.

[myata]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Why enshrine rights without enforcing them?

Very true. The essence of democracy is not declarations of rights, but protection and prevention of any violations and transgressions. Without effective protection "rights" are just empty shell, an illusion.

[Zeitgeist]

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I didn't call them liars. I showed you examples of them lying. 

Don't pretend that you don't remember when they were telling you that the lab leak theory was nothing more than conspiratorial bullshit. 

We haven’t even gotten into what may be an active government cover up of what happened at the lab.  Canadians still don’t know why our government allowed Chinese virologists to work in an infectious disease lab on Canadian soil with access to biohazards.   We don’t know why they were fired.  Talk about a government putting its own citizens at risk.  They’re not telling us what happened on grounds of national security.  What more secrets are there to protect?  What happens when the government itself becomes a threat to the people?  Is that what’s happening?