Emergency Act commission

[Queenmandy85]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Trudeau also won’t let his MP’s vote with their conscience on matters like abortion.

Prime Minister Harper would not allow the issue of abortion to even come up.

His main failing, like Prime Minister Trudeau, was to not address the coming climate crisis. 

23 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The scandals you mention barely register compared to Trudeau’s.

Standing up here in Saskatchewan and bold faced lying to our face about the equalization deal he promised is not a major scandal? Or his lie about taxing Income Trusts?

Mr. Trudeau's government led a successful multiparty campaign to rescue NAFTA. That same multiparty effort created an effective response to a deadly pandemic that likely saved 60,000 lives. He does not, not would he, take all the credit because it was with the support of the CPC, the NDP and the Bloc.

Had Mr. Harper been PM, I am sure he would have done the same thing. Governments act as they should. Mr. Harper may have invoked the EMA as well. The Commission will determine if it was justified.

[West]

The more I watch the testimony it's obvious that these were just a bunch of average Joe's. Maybe they don't know all the legalese or anything like that but it's quite obvious there is something deeply wrong with the hoity toity caviar class... they despise the blue collar and you can see that with just the smugness of the lawyers and politicians involved. What it boils down to... the undesirables invaded the space of the yacht club folk 

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, West said:

...they despise the blue collar and you can see that with just the smugness of the lawyers and politicians involved. What it boils down to... the undesirables invaded the space of the yacht club folk 

No, it was simply the convoy demonstrating why the undesirables it speaks for are so ridiculous. The smugness is Canada wide and it's just barely disguised hilarity and ridicule - you're being charitable to yourselves by referring to it as smugness.

[Queenmandy85]

40 minutes ago, West said:

The more I watch the testimony it's obvious that these were just a bunch of average Joe's.

The average Joe's mostly got vaccinated and got on with their lives.

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I totally disagree.  Harper was consistently professional. He was a much wiser statement internationally and he managed to show respect towards Quebec and Indigenous without turning Canada into a house of shame. His programs supported families without being redistribution schemes for select groups.  The scandals you mention barely register compared to Trudeau’s.  He saved Canada from a costly and insane central planning climate agreement.  Trudeau buys into all the international programs and sells Canadians short to look good on the world stage, though he looks like an attention-seeking fop.  Trudeau also won’t let his MP’s vote with their conscience on matters like abortion. He’s a King Godfrey mama’s boy with good hair.

Early on I thought maybe there were real smarts and wisdom behind the image, but that impression quickly faded. How can you think for a second that the country is just as good now as it was under Harper?  Our dollar is worth much less.  Our debt is much higher.  Our economic growth is flat.  Our cost of living is much higher.  Our national pride is much lower.  Our freedoms have been reduced and challenged.  Our population is far more divided.  Our moral compass is haywire, whether the issue is assisted suicide, trans teachers with gargantuan prosthetic breasts, the rise in drug addiction, or the general malaise and confusion of young people.

I wasn’t a fan of Harper initially because I was taught to fear conservatives, even as a centrist, but Trudeau has really compromised Canada.

What Trudeau was and what he became are just so wildly different. At least Harper was pretty much the same throughout his tenure as PM. In 2015 Trudeau seemed genuinely optimistic for the future of Canada. I'd say even by 2017 the narcissism really came out. I mean, yes all politicians are to some degree but Trudeau is just off the scale.

[myata]

10 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

What have they done

A great next question! Really. If nobody's looking how can we see? Like, anything.

[West]

2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

The average Joe's mostly got vaccinated and got on with their lives.

Some were good little boys and destroyed their business for a $2000 cerb cheque and didn't talk back to the caviar class I suppose

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Prime Minister Harper would not allow the issue of abortion to even come up.

His main failing, like Prime Minister Trudeau, was to not address the coming climate crisis. 

Standing up here in Saskatchewan and bold faced lying to our face about the equalization deal he promised is not a major scandal? Or his lie about taxing Income Trusts?

Mr. Trudeau's government led a successful multiparty campaign to rescue NAFTA. That same multiparty effort created an effective response to a deadly pandemic that likely saved 60,000 lives. He does not, not would he, take all the credit because it was with the support of the CPC, the NDP and the Bloc.

Had Mr. Harper been PM, I am sure he would have done the same thing. Governments act as they should. Mr. Harper may have invoked the EMA as well. The Commission will determine if it was justified.

The climate crisis is mostly an idea.  We have no idea how much our human behaviour is accelerating it and how much of it is part of natural interglacial cycles and sunspot activity.  We certainly don’t know if our carbon measures will make any substantive difference to climate change.  We do know the impact of carbon taxes on cost of living.   It’s significant.

We wouldn’t have had such a divided country under Harper.  We certainly wouldn’t have had as much protest or an EA.

Harper was also much better on China.   The Liberals were totally in bed with the Chinese.  The US then moved against Huawei and the two Michaels detainments were the collateral damage.

Trudeau’s foolish admiration for China’s “basic dictatorship” and his naivety about their manipulation has helped make Western democracy less secure.  Don’t get me started on the ridiculous work on bio weapons with Chinese researchers in Manitoba and Wuhan. Insanely reckless to our national security and public safety.  

Edited November 4, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, West said:

The more I watch the testimony it's obvious that these were just a bunch of average Joe's. Maybe they don't know all the legalese or anything like that but it's quite obvious there is something deeply wrong with the hoity toity caviar class... they despise the blue collar and you can see that with just the smugness of the lawyers and politicians involved. What it boils down to... the undesirables invaded the space of the yacht club folk 

Yes and the irony is that it’s the truckers and farmers who feed and service these professional politicians.  If the society collapses, it’s the truckers and farmers who will be hands on with the trades rebuilding.  The elites are totally reliant on them.  The police and military know it too, which is why the leaks were happening and government was on shaky ground.  The tow companies wouldn’t get on board with the government until they were pressed into service.

Edited November 4, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[West]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes and the irony is that it’s the truckers and farmers who feed and service these professional politicians.  If the society collapses, it’s the truckers and farmers who will be hands on with the trades rebuilding.  The elites are totally reliant on them.  The police and military know it too, which is why the leaks were happening and government was on shaky ground.  The tow companies wouldn’t get on board with the government until the were basically pressed into service.

We are witnessing what the caviar class does. Right now they are threatening a lawsuit for daring to oppose them. That's all these insecure little boys and girls have are threats. They have no integrity and they are owned by the highest bidder. What a sad life they lead

[myata]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes and the irony is that it’s the truckers and farmers who feed and service these professional politicians.  If the society collapses, it’s the truckers and farmers who will be hands on with the trades rebuilding.  The elites are totally reliant on them.

To be fair, it's been close to two centuries of virtually unlimited, unchecked and non accountable power and only now it is showing up. Really, clearly showing. Wow. What a great country.

[myata]

Sure back again, to "caviar class". What a surprise.

[Moonbox]

5 hours ago, West said:

1. Black Lives Matter went through a whole "defund the police" push. Really no different than the MOU only one seems to be getting portrayed as some attempt at a takeover of the government. 

BLM has been beaten to death by you guys, and by conservative media.  If we're going to expand the debate outside of Canada, lets also talk about January 6th.  

5 hours ago, West said:

We've seen Idle No More groups clog up highways. 

but not the Ambassador Bridge.  

5 hours ago, West said:

Weve seen enviro activists clog up train lines and light them on fire. Where was the EA there? 

but not for three weeks, in their thousands.  Presumably they just left, or were removed by the police.  Why the Freedom Convoy ended up as such a faceplant for government and law enforcement is what this inquiry is about.   

5 hours ago, West said:

I'm only pointing to the rank hypocrisy in coverage between these events and the freedom convoy

I understand, but there's nothing hypocritical about it.  The Freedom Convoy was deeply unpopular and it wasn't because of the media.  The Ambassador Bridge blockade set the tone and people were done with the movement right there and then, but they had a deeper and more fundamental problem:  The vast majority of Canadians had little/no sympathy for what they were protesting, viewing them as some combination of foolish, selfish and wrong.  That there was a bias against the trucker convoy in the media cannot be argued, but since everyone already had a deeply negative view of them, very little spin was required.  

5 hours ago, West said:

3. Again, you miss key details. As I've pointed out to you several times over the past several months, THE POLICE were the ones who escorted the trucks downtown and then proceeded to block them in. Why did they do that? 

Because they already knew where the protestors were coming and where they were going, and that's what they do.  They weren't going to be able to block the highways and every truck coming into Ottawa, so they tried to make sure that the protest was localized, not pure chaos and that there were emergency lanes still open etc.  

5 hours ago, West said:

4. What hypocrisy is that? We have a prime minister who took unprecedented steps to unilaterally declare a protest unlawful. Why are you not asking questions about the legitimacy of such thing.. 

I don't really know how many more times I can say this.  I do question the legitimacy of the EA.  I have from the very beginning.  I deeply disagreed with it and thought it was at best a gross misuse and misinterpretation of legislation never meant to be used for something like this. 

The hypocrisy I'm referring to is your repeated complaints about negative rhetoric in the media and in government towards the trucker convoy, while not being able to avoid it yourself.  

 

[Michael Hardner]

7 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, it was simply the convoy demonstrating why the undesirables it speaks for are so ridiculous. The smugness is Canada wide and it's just barely disguised hilarity and ridicule - you're being charitable to yourselves by referring to it as smugness.

I think that it's also narcissism. Self obsession.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, West said:

I already knew the rest of the leaders didn't like him... if you actually followed them you would know that. 

Not sure what that proves tho... because Barber didn't like Pat King that means the EA was necessary? I don't follow

Oh? You knew? And still put him on a pedestal and called him a hero?? Yeah sure LOL

The EMA being necessary is not yet being questioned yet. What is coming out is the internal BS the protesters had.

[ExFlyer]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't recall anyone ever saying Pat King was a hero.

The people who organized the Freedom Convoy are heroes in that sense. They did something incredible for their country, the likes of which you can only dream of.

Pat King's part in getting the convoy rolling is GREATLY APPRECIATED. 

Pat King may not be a great guy, but the Freedom convoy was awesome. It's just like saying Stalin wasn't a great guy, but winning WWII was still awesome.

Now, I don't know how bad PKing actually is, but he's definitely no worse than Trudeau.  

C'mom dude.

When he was in jail for all that time and I was asking why was he not keeping a lawyer, why was no one was posting bail, you guys jumped up and down insisting he was a hero and a leader and the key guy in the protest.

As two (so far) of the protest organizers/leaders, testified, they asked King not to come and when he was here, they told him to leave.

You and several others here were president and board members of the Pat King Fan Club LOL

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/tamara-lich-told-very-controversial-pat-king-not-to-go-to-ottawa-protest-she-tells-inquiry

Edited November 4, 2022 by ExFlyer

[Nefarious Banana]

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I think that it's also narcissism. Self obsession.

On the scale of Justin Trudeau's?    Justin doesn't like competition or anything not 'Justinfatuation' . . . .

[West]

9 hours ago, Moonbox said:

BLM has been beaten to death by you guys, and by conservative media.  If we're going to expand the debate outside of Canada, lets also talk about January 6th.  

but not the Ambassador Bridge.  

but not for three weeks, in their thousands.  Presumably they just left, or were removed by the police.  Why the Freedom Convoy ended up as such a faceplant for government and law enforcement is what this inquiry is about.   

I understand, but there's nothing hypocritical about it.  The Freedom Convoy was deeply unpopular and it wasn't because of the media.  The Ambassador Bridge blockade set the tone and people were done with the movement right there and then, but they had a deeper and more fundamental problem:  The vast majority of Canadians had little/no sympathy for what they were protesting, viewing them as some combination of foolish, selfish and wrong.  That there was a bias against the trucker convoy in the media cannot be argued, but since everyone already had a deeply negative view of them, very little spin was required.  

Because they already knew where the protestors were coming and where they were going, and that's what they do.  They weren't going to be able to block the highways and every truck coming into Ottawa, so they tried to make sure that the protest was localized, not pure chaos and that there were emergency lanes still open etc.  

I don't really know how many more times I can say this.  I do question the legitimacy of the EA.  I have from the very beginning.  I deeply disagreed with it and thought it was at best a gross misuse and misinterpretation of legislation never meant to be used for something like this. 

The hypocrisy I'm referring to is your repeated complaints about negative rhetoric in the media and in government towards the trucker convoy, while not being able to avoid it yourself.  

 

1. It's called a comparison. One torched several cities across the US. The other dared to serve hotdogs on a public sidewalk

2. Ambassador Bridge was already cleared before invoking the EA. 

3. Only to those who watch global news. At the time the majority saw mandates as deeply unpopular and patients was running thin with the usual nonsense of blind trust of the experts  

They just happened to raise about 20 million dollars in a go fund me account plus by estimates 20k per day in cash from Ottawa residents. But nah nobody supported them ?

4. Okay good. That's what this is about. Instead it's turned into character assassinations of Canadians who opposed mandates and what appears to be an orchestrated effort for the Trudeau government to dig for info for a private class action lawsuit which is bizarre this is allowed

Edited November 4, 2022 by West

[ExFlyer]

44 minutes ago, West said:

1. It's called a comparison. One torched several cities across the US. The other dared to serve hotdogs on a public sidewalk

2. Ambassador Bridge was already cleared before invoking the EA. 

3. Only to those who watch global news. At the time the majority saw mandates as deeply unpopular and patients was running thin with the usual nonsense of blind trust of the experts  

They just happened to raise about 20 million dollars in a go fund me account plus by estimates 20k per day in cash from Ottawa residents. But nah nobody supported them ?

4. Okay good. That's what this is about. Instead it's turned into character assassinations of Canadians who opposed mandates and what appears to be an orchestrated effort for the Trudeau government to dig for info for a private class action lawsuit which is bizarre this is allowed

They were trying to clear the Ambassador Bridge at the time of EA enactment, not completely cleared and only after Ontario Superior Court granted an injunction barring protesters from blocking the bridge.   Coutts was not.

Please provide the facts about "plus by estimates 20k per day in cash from Ottawa residents".  More misinformation/disinformation  crap.

The mandates and trucker inability to cross borders was the primary objective. At the time the border issue was on, it was also on in the US. No one could get in by American decree. How come only Canadians protested and blockaded? The American truckers could not get in or get home if they were not vaccinated? Why did they not blockade??

The inquest is showing that the character assassinations are coming from the leaders of the protest against each other. (and it was surprising to me how many groups were involved each with a different agenda.)

 

Edited November 4, 2022 by ExFlyer

[Moonbox]

24 minutes ago, West said:

1. It's called a comparison. One torched several cities across the US. The other dared to serve hotdogs on a public sidewalk

Okay, but then you're not even making a fair comparison between the two.  You are presenting BLM in the worst possible light, while trivializing the impact of the Freedom Convoy.  If you can't avoid spinning yourself, how can you complain about the media bias with a straight face?  

24 minutes ago, West said:

2. Ambassador Bridge was already cleared before invoking the EA. 

Right, but what are you complaining about, exactly?  I've already agreed with you that the EA was unjustifiable.  I thought we were talking about media biases now.  

24 minutes ago, West said:

3. Only to those who watch global news. At the time the majority saw mandates as deeply unpopular and patients was running thin with the usual nonsense of blind trust of the experts  

No, they were deeply and broadly unpopular protests and surveys across the country confirmed that, with almost 50% of even conservative party voters disapproving.  Whether or not you agreed with the medical experts is irrelevant.  This is where you and the truckers lost support and sympathy, because when you start making medical arguments you're no longer arguing about individual freedom of choice, or the economic cost of mandates, but rather broadening it into conspiracy theory, anti-science and culture war garbage.  

24 minutes ago, West said:

They just happened to raise about 20 million dollars in a go fund me account plus by estimates 20k per day in cash from Ottawa residents. But nah nobody supported them ?

Who said nobody supported them? 20-30% of the population is a lot of people.  

24 minutes ago, West said:

4. Okay good. That's what this is about. Instead it's turned into character assassinations of Canadians who opposed mandates and what appears to be an orchestrated effort for the Trudeau government to dig for info for a private class action lawsuit which is bizarre this is allowed

No, these are two separate issues.  A lot of Canadian media has questioned and criticized the EMA. That doesn't mean that they can't still be deeply critical of the freedom convoy protestors.  If the inquiry finds that the EMA was an overreach (and they probably will/should), that's not a vindication of the protestors, but rather official censure of law enforcement and lawmaker's incompetence in dealing with them.  

These protests should have been ended sooner, and they shouldn't have required the nuclear option.  

[ironstone]

Demonizing your opponents and never letting a good crisis go to waste. Killing two birds with one stone as they say.

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

C'mom dude.

When he was in jail for all that time and I was asking why was he not keeping a lawyer, why was no one was posting bail, you guys jumped up and down insisting he was a hero and a leader and the key guy in the protest.

As two (so far) of the protest organizers/leaders, testified, they asked King not to come and when he was here, they told him to leave.

You and several others here were president and board members of the Pat King Fan Club LOL

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/tamara-lich-told-very-controversial-pat-king-not-to-go-to-ottawa-protest-she-tells-inquiry

There was no more reason for Pat King to be in Jail than Trudeau. 

I still don't even know a lot about Pat King TBH. I don't care. His back-story is meaningless to me.

I care about vax-fascism a lot, and Pat King is anti-fascism. Vax-fascism is far more of a threat to this country than Pat King ever was.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I was on Pat King's side for a while. 

Pat King should not have been in jail for standing up to fascism. 

[West]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

They were trying to clear the Ambassador Bridge at the time of EA enactment, not completely cleared and only after Ontario Superior Court granted an injunction barring protesters from blocking the bridge.   Coutts was not.

Please provide the facts about "plus by estimates 20k per day in cash from Ottawa residents".  More misinformation/disinformation  crap.

The mandates and trucker inability to cross borders was the primary objective. At the time the border issue was on, it was also on in the US. No one could get in by American decree. How come only Canadians protested and blockaded? The American truckers could not get in or get home if they were not vaccinated? Why did they not blockade??

The inquest is showing that the character assassinations are coming from the leaders of the protest against each other. (and it was surprising to me how many groups were involved each with a different agenda.)

 

You need to check your timelines. Blockade was ended the day before the EA. 

As for my evidence about the 20k per day, this came out in yesterday's testimony. 

 

[myata]

37 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

is it fair to say you are such a perfectionist

Omg, really? Is it fair to call a tiny meaningful change in about two centuries "a revolution"? But wait, maybe you're getting somewhere! If there's a risk of that word, there needs to be an EMA handy, right?

Edited November 4, 2022 by myata

[West]

8 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh? You knew? And still put him on a pedestal and called him a hero?? Yeah sure LOL

The EMA being necessary is not yet being questioned yet. What is coming out is the internal BS the protesters had.

OK for 1. you are lying about what I said about P. King. 

For 2 I fail to see how personality conflicts, which can arise when you put thousands of people together under intense stress and lack of sleep, have anything to do with the Emergencies Act