SpankyMcFarland Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 If I were asked to help the Tories, a rather unlikely proposition, I would advise PP to: 1. Play the long game. There’s bad news coming for Canada from the Americans and it’s probably going to hurt our economy something serious. Think of Clement Attlee, stoically applauding Churchill’s self-serving rhetoric for years as Deputy PM only to beat the hell out of him in 1945. Patience, mon brave. 2. Smile sadly and cut the snark. Remember that Carney is Captain Canada at the moment. Point out government failings in a tone that suggests sorrow more than anger. Whether you like it or not you’re part of a Canadian political team right now. 3. Talk about groceries. Keep the crazy culture war stuff for the party faithful and get tough with any Bernier-types in the party who make you look like a MAGA fifth column ready to sell us out and do Trump’s bidding. Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Goddess Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 One problem with Liberal voters is they think Carney SAYING something, is the same thing as DOING it. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Goddess said: One problem with Liberal voters is they think Carney SAYING something, is the same thing as DOING it. If that’s true, it will be revealed over time. Given that Canada‘s biggest problem is a foreign one, I think Canadians will be more more patient with this particular Liberal government than they had become with the previous guy in charge. Edited February 18 by SpankyMcFarland 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Moonlight Graham Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 3 hours ago, Moonbox said: The voters chose the individual MP, not the party. That individual is free to exercise his/her own judgement and follow their conscience with their constituency in mind. That constituency is not limited to just the people who voted for the MP. With party power and messaging centralizing more and more under Harper's and especially Trudeau's leadership, floor crossings are a good and necessary check. The outrage over the 300+ floor crossings Canada has seen since 1867 is largely performative. This is how it's supposed to work. Voters these days largely vote based on party not individuals. That's not up for debate. Floor crossing may be legal but it's against the will of the people, especially less than a year since they were elected, and those who disagree just want their team to win a majority. 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Maybe the MP's that are crossing the floor get to see and hear what is really going on (as opposed to your conjecture and facebook rumours) and decide it is best for their constituents to move away from PP? They don't give 2 shats about their constituents. 1 1 Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Goddess Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 What I don't understand about the floor-crossers is that the platform of the Conservatives is diametrically opposite to the platform of the Liberals. Liberals want high taxes, high inflation, unsustainable immigration that strains housing, jobs and the economy, high crime because they believe in letting the most violent criminals go free, borrowing & borrowing & borrowing money, creating expensive bureaucracies so they can funnel taxpayer money into their own personal businesses, etc. Conservatives campaigned on the opposite of all of that. Those Conservatives elected who switch to the Liberal platform are a huge betrayal to their constituents. The platforms couldn't be more different. It's the whole reason why Carney had to lie and say he supported some "center" views. 1 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Goddess Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 7 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: If that’s true, it will be revealed over time. Given that Canada‘s biggest problem is a foreign one, I think Canadians will be more more patient with this particular Liberal government than they had become with the previous guy in charge. I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry. You're saying Canadians will keep this Liberal government in even LONGER than they kept Trudeau? That's very disheartening. We don't have the time to diddle around with this bunch of id10ts anymore, just hoping that they eventually "get it". 1 Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Goddess said: What I don't understand about the floor-crossers is that the platform of the Conservatives is diametrically opposite to the platform of the Liberals. Liberals want high taxes, high inflation, unsustainable immigration that strains housing, jobs and the economy, high crime because they believe in letting the most violent criminals go free, borrowing & borrowing & borrowing money, creating expensive bureaucracies so they can funnel taxpayer money into their own personal businesses, etc. Conservatives campaigned on the opposite of all of that. Those Conservatives elected who switch to the Liberal platform are a huge betrayal to their constituents. The platforms couldn't be more different. It's the whole reason why Carney had to lie and say he supported some "center" views. Did the Liberal Party really campaign on those items last time out in exactly the way you describe there? Representative democracy is the system we have and it has served us well. The PM is never as secure in their job as a US president and that’s a good thing. 18 minutes ago, Goddess said: I don't understand what you're saying here, sorry. You're saying Canadians will keep this Liberal government in even LONGER than they kept Trudeau? That's very disheartening. We don't have the time to diddle around with this bunch of id10ts anymore, just hoping that they eventually "get it". No, than they have become. Were not talking another decade. Canada had run out of patience with Trudeau but they’ll give Carney some extra time, a few years, because his biggest problem is a foreign one for which he cannot be blamed. In many ways, he does represent a break with JT. Edited February 19 by SpankyMcFarland 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Goddess Posted February 18 Report Posted February 18 1 minute ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Did the Liberal Party really campaign on those items last time out? They didn't disavow their past direction. I found their platform very vague. "Energy superpower". What did that even mean? NOW we know that means they're going to continue shoveling money into batteries, in spite of the tens of billions we've lost from their last investments that all went belly-up. I wasn't a person who was pooping my pants because the Liberals kept saying the Americans were going to invade us. They didn't discuss immigration, that I heard. So I knew they weren't going to do anything about that. When asked about the drug crisis, Carney said there was no drug crisis in Canada. So I knew they weren't going to do anything about that, either. They expressly said all government jobs were safe, that if Conservatives got in, those jobs would be cut, but THEY would keep those jobs safe. So, no changes to our ballooning expensive bureaucracy. Their election campaign mostly was just firing up fear of Trump. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
ExFlyer Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 1 hour ago, Shady said: A decision contrary to the will of voters. He received an advisory role to Carney for the flip. I can’t believe people are defending this kind of overt political bribery. Says who? You??? LOL Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Shady Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 40 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Says who? You??? LOL No, the voting results of the election. 1 Quote
herbie Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 9 hours ago, BeaverFever said: while the conservative members of this forum shrieked their denials and insisted he was still a true blue conservative That's due to because he is and they're not. Doubling down on what doesn't work and insisting it does isn't conservative at all. 1 Quote
TreeBeard Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 6 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: If I were asked to help the Tories, a rather unlikely proposition, I would advise PP to: 1. Play the long game. There’s bad news coming for Canada from the Americans and it’s probably going to hurt our economy something serious. Think of Clement Attlee, stoically applauding Churchill’s self-serving rhetoric for years as Deputy PM only to beat the hell out of him in 1945. Patience, mon brave. 2. Smile sadly and cut the snark. Remember that Carney is Captain Canada at the moment. Point out government failings in a tone that suggests sorrow more than anger. Whether you like it or not you’re part of a Canadian political team right now. 3. Talk about groceries. Keep the crazy culture war stuff for the party faithful and get tough with any Bernier-types in the party who make you look like a MAGA fifth column ready to sell us out and do Trump’s bidding. 4. Control your caucus. Harper never would’ve let Javani go on his ridiculous mission and then side with the Americans when he got back. PP has had to publicly distance himself from his own guy. Makes him look very weak. 2 Quote
Goddess Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 6 hours ago, Goddess said: After getting elected he went right back to all the vapid stupidity. Carbon credits, carbon taxes, EV mandates, hired all his cronies at $600-700,000 per year, started a bunch of new bureaucracies that have accomplished nothing so far (there's still 72 real projects, with real investors, stuck in limbo), continued giving away billions of dollars to other countries, same old, same old. He isn't fixing anything. He's making it worse. While Trump is tariffing everything. He's not here to fix anything. He's here to finish Canada off. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
eyeball Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 13 hours ago, BeaverFever said: The best thing that ever happened to conservatives on this forum was disabling the search feature so they never have admit when they’re wrong. They refuse to do that even when they're called out on something on the same page. You're being way to charitable. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
eyeball Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 10 hours ago, Moonbox said: The outrage over the 300+ floor crossings Canada has seen since 1867 is largely performative. This is how it's supposed to work. It would work even better if a few Liberal backbenchers also rocked Parliament's boat from time to time. I'm pretty sure it was supposed to work that way too. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
ExFlyer Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 (edited) 12 hours ago, Shady said: No, the voting results of the election. Ha HA HA ...the voters in that riding did not know what PP was to become. Edited February 19 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
ExFlyer Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 (edited) 7 hours ago, Goddess said: He isn't fixing anything. He's making it worse. While Trump is tariffing everything. He's not here to fix anything. He's here to finish Canada off. from another source: Can we stop pretending the Prime Minister is standing at the cash register setting the price of lettuce? Canada’s grocery inflation spikes are mostly coming from import cost reality: a weaker dollar, global food shocks, climate hits, shipping, packaging, fertilizer, the stuff that raises costs before your food even lands on a shelf. Even the Bank of Canada has pointed to import cost pressures as a major driver behind the resurgence. But here’s where it gets disgusting: While Canadians are getting cooked at checkout, Galen G. Weston’s Loblaw empire is still the biggest player in the room… and certain politicians are out here acting like they’re “fighting for you” while keeping the corporate backchannels warm. Let’s talk about Pierre Poilievre’s circle. Jenni Byrne is one of Poilievre’s key political operators, and her firm, Jenni Byrne + Associates, has been registered to lobby the Ontario government on behalf of Loblaw, according to provincial lobby records. So when Poilievre, Melissa Lantsman, and the Byrne machine start doing the “we care about grocery prices” routine, ask the only question that matters: If you’re really on the side of working people… why are the people closest to you tied to the grocery giant’s lobbying ecosystem? And here’s the part the rage bait crowd hates: You can be mad at grocery bills AND be honest about the causes. It’s not “Carney controls prices.” That’s toddler level economics. But it is true that market concentration can make price drops slower and pain stickier, which is why serious policy means: more competition, fewer barriers to new entrants, and less corporate gatekeeping. So yeah, I’ll be fair: The Liberal government doesn’t control global food prices or the Canadian dollar like a thermostat. But they can keep doing the adult work: competition reform, supply chain resilience, affordability measures that actually move the needle. And to anyone still falling for Poilievre’s “I’m your grocery warrior” cosplay… If your ‘anti gouging’ hero’s inner circle is orbiting Loblaw’s lobbying world, you’re not watching a solution. Edited February 19 by ExFlyer Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
John Stone Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 8 hours ago, TreeBeard said: 4. Control your caucus. Harper never would’ve let Javani go on his ridiculous mission and then side with the Americans when he got back. PP has had to publicly distance himself from his own guy. Makes him look very weak. Churchill? He was like PP in the sense that post war Churchill's rhetoric re: Russia (aka Iron Curtain) scared people. Quote
ExFlyer Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 6 minutes ago, John Stone said: Churchill? He was like PP in the sense that post war Churchill's rhetoric re: Russia (aka Iron Curtain) scared people. And PP's rhetoric is the cost of imported carrots are the liberals fault LOL Quote You are entitled to your opinion, but you are not entitled to tell me what mine should be.
Barquentine Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 17 hours ago, Goddess said: Liberals want high taxes, high inflation, unsustainable immigration that strains housing, jobs and the economy, high crime because they believe in letting the most violent criminals go free, borrowing & borrowing & borrowing money, creating expensive bureaucracies so they can funnel taxpayer money into their own personal businesses, etc. The usual hogwash! No facts, just biased, blind, hateful opinion based on nothing! Quote
Barquentine Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 Jeneroux won with only 50.2% of the votes. Liberals and NDP had a combined 49% so it's not like that riding is a bastion of Conservatives. Given that and PeePee's continued decline vs. Carney, Jeneroux could now win that riding as a Liberal. The Con's should have gotten themselves a new leader when they had the chance. Now they're looking at another 7 years in the widerness. Quote
Politics1990 Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 he made a good decision the cons with pp as the head guy is a mess atm. ditch him and go elect someone like ambrose or another center-right wing type canidate and you actually have a chance at beating the libs in 2028-2029 Quote
Goddess Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 12 minutes ago, Barquentine said: The usual hogwash! No facts, just biased, blind, hateful opinion based on nothing! It's not hogwash at all. We can only conclude they want those things because they are doing nothing about any of it. Quote "There are two different types of people in the world - those who want to know and those who want to believe." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche ~~
Moonbox Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Voters these days largely vote based on party not individuals. That's not up for debate. They're still casting their ballot for the individual. That's also not up for debate. Being a low-info voter that makes decisions based on lazy heuristics and/or tribalism doesn't change how the system was designed or intended to work. 17 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: Floor crossing may be legal but it's against the will of the people and those who disagree just want their team to win a majority. It's not just legal, it's vital to our political system. The Constitution doesn't even mention political parties, and the Parties don't have ownership over seats. The ability to cross the floor is what prevents party discipline and power centralization from stifling representation, which is the whole point of the Westminster system. The delegitimization of floor-crossing would convert political parties from voluntary associations to franchise arrangements. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
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