eyeball Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: The delegitimization of floor-crossing would convert political parties from voluntary associations to franchise arrangements. Political parties should have no more status in Parliament than the Kiwanis Club. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Shady Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: The delegitimization of floor-crossing would convert political parties from voluntary associations to franchise arrangements. Complete nonsense. They can still cross the floor, but it should go to a by election, and be approved by voters. I don't know how anyone can argue against that. 1 Quote
Moonbox Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 24 minutes ago, eyeball said: Political parties should have no more status in Parliament than the Kiwanis Club. Legally, and Constitutionally, they have no status in Parliament whatsoever. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Moonbox Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 Just now, Shady said: Complete nonsense. They can still cross the floor, but it should go to a by election, and be approved by voters. I don't know how anyone can argue against that. No, because the Parties have no legal status in Parliament. You vote for your MP. If that person doesn't change, no by-election is required. The fact that you can't see past the colour on the sign is irrelevant to this reality. The way you would prefer it to be doesn't change the way it actually is, and the way it was intentionally designed. 1 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
CdnFox Posted February 19 Report Posted February 19 6 hours ago, Barquentine said: The usual hogwash! No facts, just biased, blind, hateful opinion based on nothing! Strange then that you couldn't refute any of it Seems more like it was true but you're just big mad about it. 6 hours ago, Barquentine said: Jeneroux won with only 50.2% of the votes. Liberals and NDP had a combined 49% so it's not like that riding is a bastion of Conservatives. You don't get to combine other parties. Half the Riding believed in one party, the rest of the Riding believed in other parties Marconi won with only about 42% of the vote. So are you saying that he doesn't represent Canadians? It's a dumb argument. 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Moonlight Graham Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) 9 hours ago, Moonbox said: They're still casting their ballot for the individual. That's also not up for debate. Being a low-info voter that makes decisions based on lazy heuristics and/or tribalism doesn't change how the system was designed or intended to work. It's not just legal, it's vital to our political system. The Constitution doesn't even mention political parties, and the Parties don't have ownership over seats. The ability to cross the floor is what prevents party discipline and power centralization from stifling representation, which is the whole point of the Westminster system. The delegitimization of floor-crossing would convert political parties from voluntary associations to franchise arrangements. The constitution doesn't mention a lot of things, like the Prime Minister. People vote for individual MPs based on the party they belong to. If these floor-crossers went into last election with "Liberal" next to their name on the ballot they almost certainly wouldn't have won. That's why this is undemocratic. The will of the people is being sidestepped and if you think it's ok to grab a majority this way you're an undemocratic POS. Edited February 20 by Moonlight Graham Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Moonlight Graham Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 6 hours ago, Shady said: Complete nonsense. They can still cross the floor, but it should go to a by election, and be approved by voters. I don't know how anyone can argue against that. Because they don't care about the will of voters or our democracy, they just want power. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Barquentine Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 12 hours ago, CdnFox said: You don't get to combine other parties. Half the Riding believed in one party, the rest of the Riding believed in other parties As usual, you didn't understand the point. Half the people of that riding voted for the left, so think for a change: what does that mean? And as Andrew Coyne said: "Poilievre didn't get a bump from the convention. In fact he's losing ground and taking the party down with him. And when you treat people badly on your way up, they'll remember it when you're on your way down." Expect more floor-crossings. Poilievre is a LOSER! The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can move on. 2 Quote
Politics1990 Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 4 minutes ago, Barquentine said: As usual, you didn't understand the point. Half the people of that riding voted for the left, so think for a change: what does that mean? And as Andrew Coyne said: "Poilievre didn't get a bump from the convention. In fact he's losing ground and taking the party down with him. And when you treat people badly on your way up, they'll remember it when you're on your way down." Expect more floor-crossings. Poilievre is a LOSER! The sooner you accept that, the sooner you can move on. and coyne leans consevative lol he still said it like it is 1 Quote
Moonbox Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: The constitution doesn't mention a lot of things, like the Prime Minister. People vote for individual MPs based on the party they belong to. Most do probably, but that's not a good thing. 13 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said: If these floor-crossers went into last election with "Liberal" next to their name on the ballot they almost certainly wouldn't have won. That's why this is undemocratic. There's nothing undemocratic about it. This is literally democracy at work. If an MP can't repudiate their party's policies or leadership, then most of our political system is a pointless charade. Individual MPs no longer have any power. Their constituency have no real representation, and all the election is about is the brand of government you're going to get. The MPs end up being nothing but appointed apparatchiks - bobbleheads and Yes men chosen for their loyalty to the Brand rather than to their constituents. 2 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Shady Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 8 minutes ago, Moonbox said: There's nothing undemocratic about it. Complete and utter nonsense. It's actually the opposite of democracy. People vote, not that long ago, for the Conservatives, in a riding that's never voted Liberal in it's existence, and then a few months later, switches parties, based on a backroom deal with the party in power. How you can defend this type of thing is beyond me. Floor crossing used to be rare, and not based on backroom deals. The Liberals have turned it into a work around from actual voters. It's banana republic type stuff, and is a good way to promote a significant level of apathy and disillusionment in the system. Quote
Moonbox Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 2 minutes ago, Shady said: Complete and utter nonsense. It's actually the opposite of democracy. You keep saying that, but you can't actually address or refer to any of my points. 4 minutes ago, Shady said: How you can defend this type of thing is beyond me. I explained it pretty clearly. If you can formulate a reasonable response to that rather than just express your outrage over and over in different words, let me know. 😑 2 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Shady said: Complete and utter nonsense. It's actually the opposite of democracy. People vote, not that long ago, for the Conservatives, in a riding that's never voted Liberal in it's existence, and then a few months later, switches parties, based on a backroom deal with the party in power. How you can defend this type of thing is beyond me. Floor crossing used to be rare, and not based on backroom deals. The Liberals have turned it into a work around from actual voters. It's banana republic type stuff, and is a good way to promote a significant level of apathy and disillusionment in the system. We live in a representative democracy. We choose MPs who represent us in parliament. They are free to support any MP to lead the country. I see the term ‘will of the people’ is being used, a very lefty slogan historically. 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 On 2/19/2026 at 2:12 AM, TreeBeard said: 4. Control your caucus. Harper never would’ve let Javani go on his ridiculous mission and then side with the Americans when he got back. PP has had to publicly distance himself from his own guy. Makes him look very weak. With his actions Jivani has publicly challenged Poilievre’s leadership and made the case for a MAGA-friendly Tory party. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-post-poilievre-leadership-race-has-begun/?login=true 2 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Many on the right seem to have given up on Canada. They want to throw themselves on the mercy of the worst elements in America. Sad to see. 2 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Legato Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: I explained it pretty clearly. If you can formulate a reasonable response to that rather than just express your outrage over and over in different words, let me know. 😑 er no. You explained your point of view, that is all. Clearly your POV is all it is. 1 Quote
Legato Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 Just now, SpankyMcFarland said: Many on the right seem to have given up on Canada. They want to throw themselves on the mercy of the worst elements in America. Sad to see. Many on the left are embracing China. They want to throw themselves on the mercy of a despicable communist regime. Sad to see. 1 Quote
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Legato said: Many on the left are embracing China. They want to throw themselves on the mercy of a despicable communist regime. Sad to see. That sums up the new right - just echoing criticism instead of explaining your position. I don’t know anybody who thinks domination by China would be a good idea. It’s a grim totalitarian dictatorship. Your problem is the fact that many of you want to see our country disappear as an independent state. You haven’t addressed the issue of your treacherous MAGA-wing and Canadians can see that. The notion that people like me are on ‘the left’ is preposterous. I have voted PC in my time and I support low corporate taxes, low national debt and a free market. Only in an American worldview could somebody like me be described as on the left. Which is the problem. So many of our right-wingers have become pale replicas of the Americans they worship. Edited February 20 by SpankyMcFarland 2 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
Moonlight Graham Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 2 hours ago, Moonbox said: Most do probably, but that's not a good thing. There's nothing undemocratic about it. This is literally democracy at work. If an MP can't repudiate their party's policies or leadership, then most of our political system is a pointless charade. Individual MPs no longer have any power. Their constituency have no real representation, and all the election is about is the brand of government you're going to get. The MPs end up being nothing but appointed apparatchiks - bobbleheads and Yes men chosen for their loyalty to the Brand rather than to their constituents. You think these MPs who crossed the floor care in any way about their constituents? They got secret hush deals to further their own careers and power. They ran for MP under PP and what has changed? He's been CPC party leader for years. Quote "All generalizations are false, including this one." - Mark Twain Partisanship is a disease of the intellect.
Legato Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said: That sums up the new right - just echoing criticism instead of explaining your position. I don’t know anybody who thinks domination by China would be a good idea. It’s a grim totalitarian dictatorship. Your problem is the fact that many of you want to see our country disappear as an independent state. You haven’t addressed the issue of your treacherous MAGA-wing and Canadians can see that. The notion that people like me are on ‘the left’ is preposterous. I have voted PC in my time and I support low corporate taxes, low national debt and a free market. Only in an American worldview could somebody like me be described as on the left. Which is the problem. So many of our right-wingers have become pale replicas of the Americans they worship. I have the same position as most Canadian's, and would like to see Canada prosper, wouldn't you? Yet here we are with the Carney making deals with China and people like yourself cheering it on. What's this fictitious Maga-wing you're on about, give us some examples. No matter how much lipstick you put on the pig the last 10 years have seen a massive decline in all what's Canadian, started by Trudeau and continuing with the Carney. 1 Quote
Moonbox Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: You think these MPs who crossed the floor care in any way about their constituents? They got secret hush deals to further their own careers and power. Because you say so? That's not much of an argument. 25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said: They ran for MP under PP and what has changed? He's been CPC party leader for years. He lost the election, remains deeply unpopular with Canadians, has shown zero capacity for self-reflection and continues to bang the grievance bell at every opportunity. 1 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he is for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 20 Report Posted February 20 (edited) Canada exploring trade options with China and every other country is something a hostile America under Trump is forcing upon us; we simply have to review all our relationships now that our closest friend has gone rogue. How any patriotic Canadian could find excuses for the US under such dire circumstances is beyond me. Edited February 21 by SpankyMcFarland 1 Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
SpankyMcFarland Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 (edited) 9 hours ago, Legato said: I have the same position as most Canadian's, and would like to see Canada prosper, wouldn't you? Yet here we are with the Carney making deals with China and people like yourself cheering it on. What's this fictitious Maga-wing you're on about, give us some examples. No matter how much lipstick you put on the pig the last 10 years have seen a massive decline in all what's Canadian, started by Trudeau and continuing with the Carney. Jivani is the first example I would cite, a disgraceful performance. The MAGA/PPC wing has thrown its lot in with our enemies. Shame on them. Let them cheer for the US in the hockey. That’s all they’re good for. Edited February 21 by SpankyMcFarland Quote ‘How small we make our worlds. Gather them in, tighten them up into little castles of fear.’
CdnFox Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 17 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Jivani is the first example I would cite, a disgraceful performance. The MAGA/PPC wing has thrown its lot in with our enemies. Shame on them. Let them cheer for the US in the hockey. That’s all they’re good for. That's just utter nonsense in partisan childishness. Rob ford, who is about as liberal as you can get, does the same thing and you think he's just the greatest guy in the world but when a conservative does it it's disgraceful. Careful. Your hypocrisy is showing If there's anyone like Trump in Canada it is Carney. He used the same slogans, he even did the same holding up the executive order he just signed thing as trump did, he's an insane bully who does whatever he wants with no regard for what is normal or decent and he lies through his teeth on a regular basis and when he gets caught he just shrugs 1 Quote "That which doesn't kill me... Had better start running."
Legato Posted February 21 Report Posted February 21 8 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said: Jivani is the first example I would cite, a disgraceful performance. The MAGA/PPC wing has thrown its lot in with our enemies. Shame on them. Let them cheer for the US in the hockey. That’s all they’re good for. There is no Maga/PPC wing, except in your head. You can not provide a single example of what you purport. Jivani was one man who accused people like yourself as having an anti-American hissy fit, he was correct as evidenced by the Maga rhetoric. The Carney bends over backward to please Trump so there's your Maga man. 1 Quote
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