Should Hamas support rallies in Canada be stopped?

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Read all about it...dumbnuts....

"pits Israeli demands for security in what it has long regarded as a hostile region against Palestinian aspirations for a state of their own."

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-dispute-hinges-statehood-land-jerusalem-refugees-2023-10-10/

 

There's no question that if Israel were a muslim nation, Iran and Palestine would have little to say. That's the argument that takes your legs out from under you.

These are considered sacred lands to jews, muslims and christians. Everybody wants to control Jerusalem. Mix in a little religious fanaticism and presto.

But maybe you don't like facts that make your widle head hurt. Because bad people making your bwownskin fwends all angwy

Dorfenburger...    

[impartialobserver]

Not exactly about Israel but a book that will really clue you in on Middle Eastern politics is Cities of Salt. It is the Mein Kempf of the arab/muslim world. Yes, it is fiction, but the reason that it is so reviled is that it does not vilify the West. it is part of a trilogy but the first book, Cities of Salt, is the one that will really illuminate things. 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

What's your point? 

.....

The real question is , what is your point with Pakistan in a thread about what is happening in the Middle East???

Sounds like you have a personal problem and grudge LOL

[ExFlyer]

28 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

There's no question that if Israel were a muslim nation, Iran and Palestine would have little to say. That's the argument that takes your legs out from under you.

These are considered sacred lands to jews, muslims and christians. Everybody wants to control Jerusalem. Mix in a little religious fanaticism and presto.

But maybe you don't like facts that make your widle head hurt. Because bad people making your bwownskin fwends all angwy

Dorfenburger...    

Whoa whoa there little man (or mannequin).

Is there something wrong with having a different opinion or point of view or even a neutral take on things in any discussion? A little devils advocate game "make your widle head hurt."?

"your bwownskin fwends all angwy" sounds very racist to me.... you seem to have a real personal and discriminatory problem.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-dispute-hinges-statehood-land-jerusalem-refugees-2023-10-10/

Dorfenburger? That is more childish than your normal babyish negging behaviour.

Edited October 12, 2023 by ExFlyer

[betsy]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Here's why.  They're taking a page out of the BBC, which has metric tons more credibility than the CBC. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67083432

Why BBC doesn't call Hamas militants 'terrorists' - John Simpson

And it's always been like this in the BBC. During World War Two, BBC broadcasters were expressly told not to call the Nazis evil or wicked, even though we could and did call them "the enemy".

"Above all," said a BBC document about all this, "there must be no room for ranting". Our tone had to be calm and collected.

 

 

Their policy is moronic!

 

 

Calling a group the kind that it's been officially declared  - "TERRORIST" - is not ranting!

It's an identification of the kind of organization it is. 

 

What?   CBC/BBC aren't calling a pedophile, a pedophile at all?

You're saying calling a pedophile, a pedophile..................is ranting?

 

Or.......calling a group a mafia......or, cartel.........lol, what?   They're not being called as such?

 

Trying to give some shades of "legitimacy" to a terrorist group - looks to me, anti-semitism is at the root of this  policy.

Edited October 12, 2023 by betsy

[CdnFox]

14 minutes ago, betsy said:

 

Their policy is moronic!

 

 

Calling a group the kind that it's been officially declared  - "TERRORIST" - is not ranting!

It's an identification of the kind of organization it is. 

 

What?   CBC/BBC aren't calling a pedophile, a pedophile at all?

You're saying calling a pedophile, a pedophile..................is ranting?

 

Or.......calling a group a mafia......or, cartel.........lol, what?   They're not being called as such?

 

Trying to give some shades of "legitimacy" to a terrorist group - looks to me, anti-semitism is at the root of this  policy.

It doesn't make much sense.  I could see it if people just called them terrorists but they've been declared a terrorist group by many lawful authorities and countries. Like - they're OFFICIAL terrorists.

CBC - "we're not calling that man a murderer! That's just an opinion!"

Sane people - "well he was convicted of murder, so it's a judge's legal opinon."

CBC - "still just an opinion."

[eyeball]

Hamas terrorize people and people are terrified of the IDF.  On and on it goes. Where it stops nobody knows.

 

Quote

 

In southern Israel, Hamas terrorists broke into a room where a family of five was hiding and slaughtered every one of them. In Gaza, a father wrapped in gauze held his child, butchered in an Israeli strike, for the last time.

These scenes pose a very simple moral test: Do you believe that it is wrong for innocent people to suffer in this way? That mass death should be deplored, not defended, regardless of who its victims are? If the answer to either of those questions is no, then you are a morally broken person.

Depressingly, the Israel-Palestine discourse has exposed many of them.

https://www.vox.com/world-politics/23911550/israel-hamas-war-gaza-palestine-leftist-democrats

 

 

[PIK]

All thanks to Arafat.

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

The real question is , what is your point with Pakistan in a thread about what is happening in the Middle East???

Sounds like you have a personal problem and grudge LOL

You were stupid enough to say that this isn't a religious war, I just proved to you prove that it was. 

Muslims accept Pakistan and their right to nationhood no questions asked, after two genocides in the millions. 

Muslims reject Israel's right to exist entirely, and their stated reason is " some human rights violations" ?

Are they really altruistic in nature (aside from cheering on the occasional genocide against Sikhs and Hindus), or just massive hypocrites?

I guess that depends on whether 2 genocides in the millions is worse than "some guys are locked up for being terrorists but we haven't seen the proof." 

Edited October 12, 2023 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

It doesn't make much sense.  I could see it if people just called them terrorists but they've been declared a terrorist group by many lawful authorities and countries. Like - they're OFFICIAL terrorists.

CBC - "we're not calling that man a murderer! That's just an opinion!"

Sane people - "well he was convicted of murder, so it's a judge's legal opinon."

CBC - "still just an opinion."

It's not even up for debate.

There's an actual definition for terrorist, and it's "commits acts of violence to further a political goal". 

From Google:

Quote

 

ter·ror·ist

/ˈterərəst/

 

noun

 

1. a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Pretty much the same thing. 

 

The only way around the "terrorist" label is to say that Hamas is the Palestinian army and that they are war criminals, like the Nazi SS. 

Bad news for Lebanon, because that makes an attack by Hezbollah an attack by Lebanon.  

Edited October 12, 2023 by WestCanMan

[ExFlyer]

12 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You were stupid enough to say that this isn't a religious war, I just proved to you prove that it was. 

Muslims accept Pakistan and their right to nationhood no questions asked, after two genocides in the millions. 

Muslims reject Israel's right to exist entirely, and their stated reason is " some human rights violations" ?

Are they really altruistic in nature (aside from cheering on the occasional genocide against Sikhs and Hindus), or just massive hypocrites?

I guess that depends on whether 2 genocides in the millions is worse than "some guys are locked up for being terrorists but we haven't seen the proof." 

Who gives a rats a$$ about Pakistan except you. You want to talk about it, start your own thread.

You proved nothing LOL

Once again.   https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-dispute-hinges-statehood-land-jerusalem-refugees-2023-10-10/

"The conflict pits Israeli demands for security in what it has long regarded as a hostile region against Palestinian aspirations for a state of their own."

"A two-state solution, Israeli settlements, the status of Jerusalem, and refugees are at the core of the dispute."

 

 

 

[CdnFox]

40 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Hamas terrorize people and people are terrified of the IDF.  On and on it goes. Where it stops nobody knows.

 

 

Sure they know.  Ever since isreal was born it's been forced to take over more and more of the territory set aside for the palestinians

This ends when there IS no more palestinian land in isreal and the palestinians are left homeless and are scattered to other countries.

Today gaza - tomorrow west bank - then peace.

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Their policy is moronic!

Calling a group the kind that it's been officially declared  - "TERRORIST" - is not ranting!

Since when have you cared so much about what's been officially declared?  ?

Terrorist isn't worth much as a word anymore.  It's been bandied around by leaders all over the world to basically label anyone that opposes them as "the bad people".  It's a slogan.  The Turks call the Kurds and the Armenians terrorists.  The Indians call the Sikhs terrorists.  The Kremlin complains about Ukrainian terrorist attacks on their infrastructure.  It's just a word meant to make you angry now.  

2 hours ago, betsy said:

Trying to give some shades of "legitimacy" to a terrorist group - looks to me, anti-semitism is at the root of this  policy.

Now that's moronic, because not aping the words like everyone else does isn't the same thing as giving Hamas legitimacy.  I suspect if you read the CBC you'd see them unequivocally condemning Hamas and doing very little to criticize Israel's response.  

Your response here highlights the problem - ranting, not thinking.  

[Army Guy]

21 hours ago, Nexii said:

The USA would have to bribe Egypt too, but yea this is probably the most sensible. The area is so polarized that it's probably best to draw the country lines across religious boundaries. The West Bank would have to be carved up, as there's 670k Israeli settlers living there.

Though I do hope Israel steps back from the precipice of genociding all of Gaza by starvation. This will only lead to a much larger war than 1948. Israel might have the military might to win a quick war, but wars often are not quick. Israel does not have the population to fight an attritional war like Ukraine is.

I don't think starvation is going to be their largest problem, Egyptian border is still open for now, so there is an out if they want to use it, until they close it, which has been done before...Their biggest problem is going to be trying to survive Israel's military campaign...

Israel has the back of the most powerful military on the planet, if push came to shove i think you might find US troops on the ground, they are already moving 2 carrier groups into the area and Biden has told the world if your thinking about intervening DONT...

Israelis military has fought and won several battles all by itself against a over whelming superior number of Muslim countries and has beaten them in combat...in some instance by sheer luck but for the most part they did it by better tactics...

Unlike most militaries around the world Israelis do mandatory military service, and spend a huge amount of time in the reserves until they age out...thats men and women..in the matter of days the entire country could be mobilized for war...not counting on all the jews from around the world that would come home and fight... 

[suds]

On 10/10/2023 at 3:33 PM, I am Groot said:

Realistically, any Palestinian state would be an authoritarian shithole. The only question would be whether it would be like Iran, if Hamas won, or like Syria, if the PLO won. There's no resources there to support them, and they'd always be a charity case. The only sensible way to solve the problem is to bribe Jordan to take back the West Bank, which they once occupied, and Egypt to take back the Gaza strip.

It would have to be one hell of a bribe. For example, why would Egypt (or Jordan) be interested in inheriting Israel's problems? And would Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza readily give up on the idea of a Palestinian state? The idea makes sense but is it feasible?

[QuebecOverCanada]

France decided that pro-Palestinian protests were prohibited by law.

Imagine my shock. The evening that law is adopted, a pro-Palestinian protest happened.

You can't ban ideas.

Right wingers who are pro Israel are wrong about silencing those Pro-Palestinians, just like the Left wingers are dead wrong about the censorship they promote for almost any opinion they are against.

[suds]

7 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

France decided that pro-Palestinian protests were prohibited by law.

Imagine my shock. The evening that law is adopted, a pro-Palestinian protest happened.

You can't ban ideas.

Right wingers who are pro Israel are wrong about silencing those Pro-Palestinians, just like the Left wingers are dead wrong about the censorship they promote for almost any opinion they are against.

I agree wholeheartedly. You either support free speech or you don't, there's no middle ground. But if you must have these kinds of protests you are still subject to Canada's Criminal Code Sections 318 and 319.

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

 

Terrorist isn't worth much as a word anymore.  It's been bandied around by leaders all over the world to basically label anyone that opposes them as "the bad people". 

So then why is the cbc saying it's emotionally charged.

This is the usual tactic we see when the left can't argue a logical position.  "why are you making such a big deal over it, it doesnt' mean anything anyway".

19 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Now that's moronic, because not aping the words like everyone else does isn't the same thing as giving Hamas legitimacy. 

denying  the truth about them and pretending its' "No big deal" absolutely gives them legitimacy.

They are in fact a terrorist organization and should be called out for what they are.  To sit there and say "well sure, they just targeted civillians and literally ran around pushing innocent women and children over and shooting them in the head... but is that REALLY terrorism? Isn't that just an opininon?" is pretty disgusting.

They're terrorists.  They struck civillian targets not military ones with the intent to terrorize. Pretending they're not is condoning their actions.  

[QuebecOverCanada]

34 minutes ago, suds said:

I agree wholeheartedly. You either support free speech or you don't, there's no middle ground. But if you must have these kinds of protests you are still subject to Canada's Criminal Code Sections 318 and 319.

Not necessarily.

You may manifest a preferrence for a side without inciting genocide/hate of the other protagonists.

 

EDIT: I misread, I thought you were telling me that they were going to be prosecuted for taking a side at a protest.

Edited October 12, 2023 by QuebecOverCanada

[Nexii]

41 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I don't think starvation is going to be their largest problem, Egyptian border is still open for now, so there is an out if they want to use it, until they close it, which has been done before...Their biggest problem is going to be trying to survive Israel's military campaign...

Israel has the back of the most powerful military on the planet, if push came to shove i think you might find US troops on the ground, they are already moving 2 carrier groups into the area and Biden has told the world if your thinking about intervening DONT...

Israelis military has fought and won several battles all by itself against a over whelming superior number of Muslim countries and has beaten them in combat...in some instance by sheer luck but for the most part they did it by better tactics...

Unlike most militaries around the world Israelis do mandatory military service, and spend a huge amount of time in the reserves until they age out...thats men and women..in the matter of days the entire country could be mobilized for war...not counting on all the jews from around the world that would come home and fight... 

Egypt's border is not open. The Rafah crossing was bombed and is closed.

Yes, Israel has a lot of might in a shorter conventional war. They don't need the USA even to not be overrun. The carrier deterrant is there for militia groups from surrounding countries that are likely to pile on. Especially if Israel steps up the genocidal actions. In a longer, asymmetrical war, however, Israel is vastly outnumbered. Like the USA or USSR in Afghanistan, or the UK in Northern Ireland, it's never as easy to keep control of a hostile population as is often assumed.

It could play out a lot of ways though, war by nature is always unpredictable. No one predicted Ukraine holding against Russia for example. 

[QuebecOverCanada]

7 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Egypt's border is not open. The Rafah crossing was bombed and is closed.

Yes, Israel has a lot of might in a shorter conventional war. They don't need the USA even to not be overrun. The carrier deterrant is there for militia groups from surrounding countries that are likely to pile on. Especially if Israel steps up the genocidal actions. In a longer, asymmetrical war, however, Israel is vastly outnumbered. Like the USA or USSR in Afghanistan, or the UK in Northern Ireland, it's never as easy to keep control of a hostile population as is often assumed.

It could play out a lot of ways though, war by nature is always unpredictable. No one predicted Ukraine holding against Russia for example. 

What we could predict though is that if Israel decides to occupy Gaza, it would be a blood bath on every side. It would be another Bakhmut times 10 or even a Stalingrad.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Who gives a rats a$$ about Pakistan except you. You want to talk about it, start your own thread.

You proved nothing LOL

Once again.   https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-palestinian-dispute-hinges-statehood-land-jerusalem-refugees-2023-10-10/

"The conflict pits Israeli demands for security in what it has long regarded as a hostile region against Palestinian aspirations for a state of their own."

"A two-state solution, Israeli settlements, the status of Jerusalem, and refugees are at the core of the dispute."

Gawd you're a stupid, stupid person.

A two-state solution is actually of no interest to Hamas. Or to Hezbollah. Or to Iran. Their long-term goal is one state and millions of dead Jews.

The "two-state solution", which most of them are 100% against anyways, would just be a stepping stone to a "1 big ethnically cleansed state solution". 

Why do terrorists attack in the Philippines? They've been attacking there for over 70 years.... Because the muslims there want their own government. 

Why did the Uyghurs attack in China? They wanted their own state their as well.

Why did islamic state try to create their own country? Because Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc weren't perfect enough for them... They wanted their own country without any Yazidis, Christians, etc. polluting it. 

Why do Sunni and Shia muslims always attack each other? Because they can't stand being in a country where the other group is in power. 

Why do women in Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, etc have to wear the hijab/burka, etc or face brutal violence from other citizens and their government? 

Tolerance isn't a part of their culture.

Jews aren't even allowed to visit Temple Mount, their own holy site from long before Mohammed was even born, because Mohammed theoretically flew there on a winged horse after he died. That's the only reason. If any Jews get close to it there are violent riots. Is there any way of reasoning with people like that? 

They can tolerate a genocide against Hindus and Sikhs all day long, but no transgression against a muslim is too small to warrant biblical-level punishment. God forbid the shadow of a filthy Jew crosses a holy site *shudder*

There's no way that an id10t like you would know about the Hadiths, or how important they are, but here is a phrase from one of the Hadiths that was quoted in a Mtl mosque (one that is all over the CIA/FBI's radar as a terrorist breeding ground):

Quote

"The last hour won't come before the Muslims would fight the Jews and the Muslims will kill them so Jews would hide behind rocks and trees. Then the rocks and tree would call: oh Muslim, oh servant of God! There is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.

That basically reads "Oh servant of God, participate in a genocide." 

You're on the wildly ignorant, credulous libtard side of history. 

Sure, this is all about a line on a map, and if the Jews give the Palestinians some land there will be blissful peace ?

[WestCanMan]

48 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

What we could predict though is that if Israel decides to occupy Gaza, it would be a blood bath on every side. It would be another Bakhmut times 10 or even a Stalingrad.

All that Gaza will ever be is a staging ground for terrorist attacks. 

Can the Israelis just tolerate terrorist attacks from there forever? 

[WestCanMan]

58 minutes ago, Nexii said:

It could play out a lot of ways though, war by nature is always unpredictable. 

Israel 'may or may not be ?' a nuclear-armed country. They are believed to have as many as 400 nukes. 

"Winning" a war against them could be very costly. 

[ExFlyer]

41 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Gawd you're a stupid, stupid person.

 

 

Nope, the stupid person is theone whining about Pakistan in a middle east discussion... LOL