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Canada Must Exit Climate Agreement Immediately


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Hard not to be brutally cynical when we see how scary stories are used to extort money and power from citizens.  Climate change is the best.  Can’t quantify the human impact.  Can’t tell if we’re in a natural warming period.  Use the fear to pay for expensive “green tech” that doesn’t generate much power but looks techy and green.  That’s all Canada’s climate action plan does, add to the cost of living so we can put up Potemkin green facades and piss in the wind.  Meanwhile everyone gets poorer.   

Edited by Zeitgeist
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8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Hard not to be brutally cynical when we see how scary stories are used to extort money and power from citizens.  Climate change is the best.  Can’t quantify the human impact.  Can’t tell if we’re in a natural warming period.  Use the fear to pay for expensive “green tech” that doesn’t generate much power but looks techy and green.  That’s all Canada’s climate action plan does, add to the cost of living so we can put up Potemkin green facades and piss in the wind.  Meanwhile everyone gets poorer.   

the source of it all is the money printing

the money printing to pay for the endlessly expanding self licking ice cream cone government

the la-la-land actually comes from not being taxed

better to force them to pay tax than to pay for things by inflating the money supply

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16 hours ago, Army Guy said:

1.  I responded to you because your comments in my opinion lean towards your support of the current liberal plan on climate change and its effectiveness. thus opening the whole climate change topic up for discussion. of course, I understand if you find conspiracies more entertaining.

2. I'll save you some time and you should stop reading right here, as I am no longer interested in your response as it adds nothing to the topic at hand.  

3. I thought a smart guy like you would already know the obvious, but OK, everyone knows that the previous Liberal Party's climate change plans have not met any of its objectives "ever" is a known fact or we would not be on plan number

4 . Carbon pricing main objective is to lower the carbon emissions, and yet they have climbed every year that carbon pricing has been implemented.

5.  People are going about their daily business, regardless of price. people are still traveling, by plane bus, car, or train. more than ever thanks to the end of lockdowns. 

6.  Maybe you are a millionaire mike and have not felt any changes to your pocketbook, but look around everything cost more

7. I know you city boys think shit just magically appears on store shelves.

8. 10 % of all climate change funds that are collected are invested to support the below. Does not leave much for other R&D in new climate change ideas or technology. That's what I call fighting a "climate emergency"

Climate Action Incentive payment amounts for 2022-23 - Canada.ca

 

 

1. Mea culpa - I do find conspiracy theories to be fun to poke at, the equivalent of popping bubble wrap on here BUT your response overstated my criticism of the refrain that climate change response is bankrupting us.  The costs and remediations have been estimated in the single digits as % of GDP in past studies.

2 I'm sorry that you are not used to reading informed opposition to your opinions.  Next time read your posts to your pet parrot and she will squawk agreement to make you feel better :)

3. Agreed and thanks for the compliment.  I sure don't feel that I am "smart" which is why I am on here trying to learn from other posters, such as yourself.

4. Since its a global count, that doesn't mean much.  Also, a few years isn't long enough to get a measure of the impact.  And finally, you are incorrect as emissions lowered in 2020.
https://www.iea.org/news/after-steep-drop-in-early-2020-global-carbon-dioxide-emissions-have-rebounded-strongly

5. Maybe, maybe not.  I have read the opposite but if you have a cite then ok. 
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/the-significant-impact-gas-prices-will-have-on-driving/

6. Yes and other events are impacting that a lot more than an 11 cent per litre tax on gas.   I'm not a millionaire but I live in a city so I don't drive so much and the carbon credit pays for the additional tax for this working class family.

7. I am more than willing to listen to arguments that are backed up, in this case with some math.  From everything I read the initial inflation and shortages came from global supply chain situation... we are now dealing with labour shortages, gas shortages and the situation is dire.  If you think spending $2/litre vs $2.11/litre will fix everything than ok.

8. This criticism is valid.  I believe the Conservative Party campaigned on creating a direct carbon credit system of some kind - maybe that's more to your liking IDK.

 

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For all you...

"AHHH...WE ALL GONNA DIIIEEE!!!"

twits. Here's an interesting admission from none other than NBC.

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/climate-changing-not-just-because-humans-here-s-why-matters-ncna824271

Is Earth's climate changing? Yes.

Is Man causing it? No. Man 'may be' contributing to it...somewhat. But nobody can actually say for sure.

So...scared little Tweenkies...the axis of our planet and the orbit it takes around the sun is changing slightly. This has happened before, and it will happen again. Man survived through the last change like this remarkably well. But the Tweenkie culture hates Man with a passion. Believes Man needs to be dictated to and kept dumb and scared so its easy to control the population.

I chose...long ago...to NOT live in fear. I understand the mechanics of what's happening and accept that there's little to nothing Man can do to stop it. The Tweenkie answer is to panic and cause all sorts of unnecessary hardship...because they're scared...or because they need to scare the population.

As this coming year progresses, we're gonna watch on while millions starve and freeze to death, all over the world. One big reason for the coming hardships is the Russian influence and the mess the Globalists made concerning gas and oil from Russia, and then spitting in their faces. The other major reason is this insane panic over something none of us can stop.

So to the rational and educated among us...don't waste your breath arguing with Tweenkies. Just laugh at them and perhaps pity their prefered state of being...Scared Shitless of everything.

To the Tweenkies...???

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

1. from NBC

2. Is Man causing it? No. Man 'may be' contributing to it...somewhat. But nobody can actually say for sure.

3. So...scared little Tweenkies... 

1.  No - it's not 'from' NBC but a professor posting on their site... they are apparently allowing editorial on their web version.
2.  She says yes, but not sure as to the degree.  You just have to look at the graph.
3.  Ad homminem.  This is a discussion of risk and collective response, not for children who call names sorry.

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38 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1.  No - it's not 'from' NBC but a professor posting on their site... they are apparently allowing editorial on their web version.
2.  She says yes, but not sure as to the degree.  You just have to look at the graph.
3.  Ad homminem.  This is a discussion of risk and collective response, not for children who call names sorry.

Yes, the great consensus of all the government funded scientists...which happens to be most of them.

Ya gits wut ya pays fer.

Wanna invest in research looking for a VIABLE method of producing energy without carbon? I'm good with that. But this childish fear mongering is destructive. The planet is going to get warmer...no matter what we do. Removing or retarding the base of the global economy, before we have a reasonable replacement is...STUPID!

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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9 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

1. Yes, the great consensus of all the government funded scientists...which happens to be most of them.

2.But this childish fear mongering is destructive.

3. The planet is going to get warmer...no matter what we do. Removing or retarding the base of the global economy, before we have a reasonable replacement is...STUPID!

1.  Right, because it's a conspiracy correct ?  Science funding comes from private and public sources btw.
2.  You should direct that towards people who are fear mongering, not people who believe that Climate Change is real.  They are not the same groups.
3.  It's call mitigation.  Putting stupid in caps doesn't improve your point.

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11 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

2.  You should direct that towards people who are fear mongering, not people who believe that Climate Change is real.  They are not the same groups.

the fear mongers hijacked the environmentalist movement

very few so called environmentalists, call them out on their bullshit

and a ton of them defend the fear mongers from those who do call them out on their bullshit

protip to the real environmentalists

throw the fakes under the bus instead of defending them

and stop calling everyone who points out their stupidity "climate deniers"

Edited by Yzermandius19
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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

I am more than willing to listen to arguments that are backed up, in this case with some math.  From everything I read the initial inflation and shortages came from global supply chain situation... we are now dealing with labour shortages, gas shortages and the situation is dire.  If you think spending $2/litre vs $2.11/litre will fix everything than ok.

Monetary policy and quantitative easing probably accounts for inflation at 4-5% and that's something that can be sorted out with a reversal of the policies that led to it.  The numbers beyond that are more supply-oriented (especially gas and food) and the Ukraine conflict made it way worse.   The problem we have to avoid is entrenched inflation, where the embedded expectation of inflation actually perpetuates it.  That's why it's becoming increasingly likely that the central banks will shock the economy into recession (on purpose) to break this negative-feedback loop.

The inflation numbers I'm posting are from a head economist and some chief investment officers at large Canadian FI's.    

"A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous

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24 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

1. Monetary policy and quantitative easing probably accounts for inflation at 4-5% and that's something that can be sorted out with a reversal of the policies that led to it.   

2. The inflation numbers I'm posting are from a head economist and some chief investment officers at large Canadian FI's.    

1. Thanks, that makes sense.  The only thing I don't understand is that QE has been in place for something like 12 years now. Was it the supply chain inflation that triggered it? ?

2.  Ok.

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On 6/20/2022 at 3:42 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Carbon taxes are largely revenue neutral... This post is replete with wrongheaded ideas.

Not if you live in BC. The federal tax will eventually go into general revenue as well. Too much much money for governments to keep their hands off. Remember when the GST was sold on the claim it would be used to pay down the debt? Maybe you are too young for that.

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3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

2 I'm sorry that you are not used to reading informed opposition to your opinions.  Next time read your posts to your pet parrot and she will squawk agreement to make you feel better :)
 

You don't have "informed responses", you regurgitate MSM talking points.

FYI gas and oil isn't just "5% of our economy", it's bar far our biggest export. We live in a country where we import almost everything electronic and vehicle-related. We can't just keep importing thse things without exporting anything, and base it all on our magical dollar. 

We export $125B in gas and oil. The rest of the top ten exports add up to less than $120B. Could you just quit your job and work part-time if you were mortgaged to the hilt? And believe me, you luvluvluv a gov't that mortgages our country to the hilt. 

Your dream of just cutting off oil revenue and maintaining our standard of living is a pipe dream. The leftist dream of "becoming a world leader in green technology exports" is about as realistic as becoming a world leader in the manufacture of TVs, cars, cellphones, rubber dogshit or anything else. It's not gonna happen. China has slaves, we have unionized workers. Our labour expenses are quite a bit higher. Shocker, hey? 

If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed.

If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. 

Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. 

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21 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1. You don't have "informed responses", you regurgitate MSM talking points.

2. FYI gas and oil isn't just "5% of our economy", it's bar far our biggest export. 

3. Shocker, hey? 

1. Well, MSM can be correct some of the time right ?   So why not quote them when they are ?
2. Point taken.   Your assertion wasn't backed up but I verified (using the MSM by the way)
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/economy/article-canada-posts-209-billion-trade-surplus-in-october-largest-so-far-this/
3. Not really.  If I was really a leftist dreamer I would state we should nationalize everything since we produce almost everything we need at home, but export profits to foreign corporate owners.  Is that too left for you ?

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47 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Thanks, that makes sense.  The only thing I don't understand is that QE has been in place for something like 12 years now. Was it the supply chain inflation that triggered it? ?

QE as a vehicle for monetary stimulus was pretty new in the 2009 recession, owing to the fact that they really couldn't lower the overnight rate any further than it already was.  Beyond that, they had to find other ways to maintain market liquidity, so they start a large-scale purchasing of bonds and other financial instruments from the financial institutions etc.  I oversimplify but the TLDR is that the central banks aren't actually just printing money out of thin air and giving it to their friends like some of the geniuses here think.  

The QE from the last recession was mostly tapered off.  This is an interesting summary of policy decisions relating to it:

https://www.yardeni.com/chronology-of-feds-quantitative-easing/
 

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"A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous

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this situation is far beyond the scope of just Canada

for the last 30 years, since the 90's

the entire global market has been cutting taxes

while printing money at the same time

offshoring the inflation temporarily, by sending it to China

since 2008,  there has been both monetary stimulus ( printing money ) & fiscal stimulus ( government spending )

so now the entire world has massive debt and inflation

so the whole thing is going to crash at once

because its all coming home to roost now

the entire world will be forced to remove money from the system ( raise interest rates ) while raising taxes

this will inevitably cause a correction of truly historic proportions

like the Great Depression

might not be a technical depression as in net negative price & wage spiral

but it will be on the same scale as the Great Depression

a global fiscal & economic crisis, a massive secular bear market correction, even if not technically net negative

and this will change the politics, by forcing change upon the culture itself upstream from the politics

Edited by Dougie93
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1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

1. so the whole thing is going to crash at once, because its all coming home to roost now

2. but it will be on the same scale as the Great Depression, a global fiscal & economic crisis, a massive secular bear market correction, even if not technically net negative and this will change the politics, by forcing change upon the culture itself upstream from the politics

1. Thank God I actually work for a living
2. It could be.  It could cause another rise of the "real" left, given that we have, today, more than enough capacity and resources to feed and house the world adequately but not enough to provide 20% ROI for people who want to invest in luxury goods & services

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in the event of global meltdown, Canada actually has many advanteges

for one thing, Canada is sitting on mountains of gold

and legally, it's all owned by the Crown

then Canada has trillions of barrels/square meters of oil & gas

so Canada is not going to disappear into.a black hole

Canada could actually fund itself out of the hole by raping & pillaging the natural enviroment

it's really the shock of the sudden adjustment which will incite cultural and so political upheaval

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don't forget,  it is monarchy which saves Canada in the end

because Queen Elizabeth II owns all that gold, oil, fertilizer, lumber, fresh water, etc

so any private interest which wants access

will have to pay Elizabeth Windsor for that

thus ensuring the survival of the Crown of Canada

and all this is based on one document

the Treaty of Paris 1763

when the French Crown signed Canada over to the British Crown, that's the only legal claim

unless someone challenges it by military force

at which point, Canada is obviously screwed

since Canada has effectively dismantled its military capabilities

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again, it's all based on one document

some piece of paper from 1763 where the French said that Canada belongs to the British

that is it

that's all you got

if anybody ( the Americans ) ever challenges that, Canada is screwed

to wit, if there was any country in the world which needed an elite military to defend it,  it is Canada

it is only because nobody ( the Americans ) has chosen to challenge Canada's 1763 claim

this piece paper signed by the French 260 year ago

that Canada is even able to exist

this is probably why the government goes hysterical,  when anybody ( the Truckers ) show up to protest

because actually, Canada is a house of cards, built on very shaky legal ground by 21st century standards

this Scots German Empire to find a Northwest Passage

this archaic institution of a now defunct age

cannot afford to take on any water

it must remain watertight

hence the authoritarianism

that iron fist is the British Crown in North America

the first, and last remaining office,  of the British Empire

VRI - Pro Patria

Edited by Dougie93
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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Well, MSM can be correct some of the time right ?   So why not quote them when they are ?

We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but for now, the summary of your post "oil is just 5% of the economy" was a far cry from the actual economic reality of this country. It's more of a "MSM/LPOC talking point" (ie, bullshit) than a starting point for an intelligent conversation. 

Quote

2. Point taken.   Your assertion wasn't backed up but I verified (using the MSM by the way)

I wouldn't bother to cite the population of Canada either, I'd just say "it's 38M". Besides, I'm not CTV or CNN, my assertions don't turn up lame more often than not. I'm pretty sure that you knew before you checked that my numbers were correct. 

Quote

3. Not really.  If I was really a leftist dreamer I would state we should nationalize everything since we produce almost everything we need at home, but export profits to foreign corporate owners.  Is that too left for you ?

Just because lefties are dumb enough to believe that somehow Canada could invent green technology that no one else has and the Chinese won't just thumb their noses at us and sell cheap knock-offs of it worldwide, doesn't mean that they don't know what would happen if we stole directly from the American and Chinese elites. 

Plus, our own leftist leaders are thick as thieves with the Pelosis, Clintons, Xi, et al. Trudeau puts the interests of those people way ahead of mere Canadians, and not just the unvaccinated mongrels like me. He'd sell out Morneau (already done) and Butts (ok, I guess I shoulda picked better examples) to serve the interests of uber-wealthy and influential foreigners. 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that the kickbacks that he got from foreign despots, who were the beneficiaries of our 'charitable' tax dollars, would fill a 40' sea can if it was all in $20 bills. 

If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed.

If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. 

Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. 

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On 6/20/2022 at 3:39 PM, blackbird said:

You and millions of others are completely deceived by the U.N. , environmentalists, and left wing governments (liberals and NDP).  There is no climate crisis and man cannot control the climate or weather. 

Blackbird,

I approach this question from a completely different way.

The "environment" is a common resource. Example: Your neighbour imposes a cost but you can't stop her. Well, you can move to a different neighbourhood.

I can't move to a different planet.

=====

I entirely agree that the Left has taken over this issue. Watermelons: Green on the outside but left inside.

And with the Left, it is always about "control".

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1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

1. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it, but for now, the summary of your post "oil is just 5% of the economy" was a far cry from the actual economic reality of this country.  

2. Just because lefties are dumb enough to believe that somehow Canada could invent green technology that no one else has and the Chinese won't just thumb their noses at us and sell cheap knock-offs of it worldwide, doesn't mean that they don't know what would happen if we stole directly from the American and Chinese elites. 

3. Plus, our own leftist leaders are thick as thieves with the Pelosis, Clintons, Xi, et al. Trudeau puts the interests of those people way ahead of mere Canadians... I'd bet dollars to donuts that the kickbacks that he got from foreign despots, who were the beneficiaries of our 'charitable' tax dollars, would fill a 40' sea can if it was all in $20 bills. 

1. Yes I already acknowledged your point.  You are correct and it's a valid point.
2. Well it's not like Canada isn't ABLE to invent or export technology.  I thought patriots believed in their country and you were a patriot ?
3. As ever, there's a conspiracy and a belief that everybody in the world is money mongering without proof.  Your world view isn't any more valid than a hippy who believes everything is peace and love.

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10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Mea culpa - I do find conspiracy theories to be fun to poke at, the equivalent of popping bubble wrap on here BUT your response overstated my criticism of the refrain that climate change response is bankrupting us.  The costs and remediations have been estimated in the single digits as % of GDP in past studies.

2 I'm sorry that you are not used to reading informed opposition to your opinions.  Next time read your posts to your pet parrot and she will squawk agreement to make you feel better :)

3. Agreed and thanks for the compliment.  I sure don't feel that I am "smart" which is why I am on here trying to learn from other posters, such as yourself.

4. Since its a global count, that doesn't mean much.  Also, a few years isn't long enough to get a measure of the impact.  And finally, you are incorrect as emissions lowered in 2020.
https://www.iea.org/news/after-steep-drop-in-early-2020-global-carbon-dioxide-emissions-have-rebounded-strongly

5. Maybe, maybe not.  I have read the opposite but if you have a cite then ok. 
https://www.autoserviceworld.com/the-significant-impact-gas-prices-will-have-on-driving/

6. Yes and other events are impacting that a lot more than an 11 cent per litre tax on gas.   I'm not a millionaire but I live in a city so I don't drive so much and the carbon credit pays for the additional tax for this working class family.

7. I am more than willing to listen to arguments that are backed up, in this case with some math.  From everything I read the initial inflation and shortages came from global supply chain situation... we are now dealing with labour shortages, gas shortages and the situation is dire.  If you think spending $2/litre vs $2.11/litre will fix everything than ok.

8. This criticism is valid.  I believe the Conservative Party campaigned on creating a direct carbon credit system of some kind - maybe that's more to your liking IDK.

 

1. Yes 6.4 % of GDP in 2017, a slump year for oil and gas,  i can not find any figures for any other years that break it down completely that take into account just oil and gas sectors, and the other includes industries that depend on oil and gas industry that have not been added to that sum.. God only knows what oil and gas are contributing in 2022 with fuel prices the way they are. Not counting what other industries are tied to the oil and gas sectors 

The oil and gas sector is the 3 rd largest contributor to GDP, In 2017, there was a total of 611,362 jobs associated with the Canadian oil and gas sector – 216,285 direct and 395,077 indirect "well-paying jobs that paid income taxes, Justin broke laws to save a few thousand, what would he be willing to do to save 611,362

The Oil and Gas Sector’s Contribution to Canada’s Economy - Energy News for the Canadian Oil & Gas Industry | EnergyNow.ca

2. There is a huge difference between criticism and being a dick, don't worry I'm over it. 

3. That's my excuse, Michael, as I'm not the smart guy in the room, you used to be that guy, and now that the inmates have taken over the school you are more of the pissed-off an employee and it shows in your posts lately, my opinion.

4. Well the pandemic did something positive did it not, of all 3 plans the liberals have come up with,  are any on track to meet their goals. Even though the last plan is not enough to meet our 2030 targets, I count that as a failure.

How close is Canada to meeting global emissions targets? - Victoria Times Colonist

5. You are lucky you live in the city that has public transport, Most do not so technically you are right there has been a small change, what of the other millions that have no other options, For some people in Ontario it is common to travel 45 minutes or more to get to work via their car...The question is did it drop or change the majority of Canadian drivers' habits dramatically.  . We will have to see if it brings change to the carbon emissions where it counts. 

6. Yes it is, dire, and yes saving 11 cents per liter would make a difference, that 11 cents we are talking about are added not just to gas, but everything, that businesses provide, do you know what business does not pass this on taxes or extra costs to the consumer... not very many, so the 11 cents is compounded in many ways. "that's math by the way"

7. The main objective here is climate change, no to tackle a "declared climate emergency", with less than 10 % of all the taxes collected going to R+D for greener energy it is hard to take any action really seriously...

it sure would make the 11-cent a liter tax go down much easier if we treated it as an emergency, and dumped it all into R+D, plus some billions from government coffers...one has to ask are we investing more on green energy projects, like micro nuclear plants, more hydro projects, etc.

8. So we are not meeting our own goals we set out to accomplish, all of these punitive measures are not producing the desired outcome, Other related events are pushing whatever progress we are showing. we have a government that hit the panic button, declared an emergency, and well is not in emergency mode yet. lack of planning for the future, like building new sources of power, and its infrastructure not just by feds but provincial as well. It is hard to get excited about climate change when our leaders don't really show any real action.. 

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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