Canada Must Exit Climate Agreement Immediately

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, Dougie93 said:

none of that is actually a function of government

to think that the government creates high paying jobs, better infrastructure & affordable housing ?

you are in leftist la-la-land yourself for saying so

where do you think the inflation of the money supply & confiscatory taxation is emanating from ?

you are the architect of your own leftist  lunatic woes, apparenty

keeping it simple would mean curtailing your own proclivity to intervene with taxpayer funded central planning

Mostly government needs to get out of the way, I agree.  My point is that the goals of government should be simple: freedom, prosperity, and opportunity.  Central planning often interferes with that except where it prevents monocultures.  Variety and competition in the marketplace are key.  Let people use their talents to bring solutions to meet demands.  It’s called free market capitalism.  

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

  My point is that the goals of government should be simple: freedom, prosperity, and opportunity. 

peace, bread & land, eh ?

guess you'd better pay your carbon tax, comrade

[Zeitgeist]

3 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

peace, bread & land, eh ?

guess you'd better pay your carbon tax, comrade

Free markets, not a choice between the black bread or the white, the Lada or the Volga.  

[myata]

21 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Mostly government needs to get out of the way, I agree.  

Like Wild West, only with nukes and billions of hungry people? With weak governments we lost cod fishing, polluted Great Lakes, even now losing salmon. You sure it'll work better or just saying it?

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Free markets, not a choice between the black bread or the white, the Lada or the Volga.  

the free market is not on Canada's side

the free market has made Canada a competitor against the Americans rather than a partner now

while Canada has a demographic deficit which cannot be filled by immigration

so Mexico is eating Canada's lunch

and that is just getting started

so if government is going to create prosperity & opportunity in the coming black hole implosion

you're going to have to raise taxes on everything to pay for that

you're going to have to strictly regulate to protect yourself from the free markets

you can't have it both ways, there's no such thing as a free lunch

[Army Guy]

21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. That's pretty twisted.  I respond to a post that says Climate Change measures are bankrupting us and you turn it into me saying we are getting a win fall ?  Maybe you should just acknowledge that I responded to some other points and addressed them.

2. Ok - well I gave you some math to check on what the impact is.  The reports I read say that 80% of consumers will be covered by the rebate.

I did say you make it "sound" like we are getting a win fall in return even included the quote in my post... (745.00 buys a lot of gas) sounds like you think it is a win fall... tell me what is so twisted about my response. Yes, you did give some responses to other posts, and I thought you did not respond to the points I was addressing.  

The Carbon tax is a huge failure, it fails to accomplish the goals it set out to if any goals were met. 

80 % of consumers are not going to be covered (that is the point), the carbon tax is about more than 11 cents a liter, it is about how it affects everything like fuel prices, food prices, and prices on everything that is shipped by boat and truck, hidden costs that you are not taking into account The government has said it has taken into account all those aspects, which they did not do a very good job at, and how could they, do they have all the information on every Canadian.

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the free market is not on Canada's side

the free market has made Canada a competitor against the Americans rather than a partner now

while Canada has a demographic deficit which cannot be filled by immigration

so Mexico is eating Canada's lunch

and that is just getting started

so if government is going to create prosperity & opportunity in the coming black hole implosion

you're going to have to raise taxes on everything to pay for that

you're going to have to strictly regulate to protect yourself from the free markets

you can't have it both ways, there's no such thing as a free lunch

Well that’s the beginning of the end.  The free market is the reality principle.  Artificially stoking prosperity through debt spending skews markets and leads to inflation and lower living standards (now).   There are certain things government must provide that are unprofitable but essential to a functioning economy, such as mail service to the far north or a subway system.  Some government healthcare is good, but not government-mandated care, clearly.  

[Dougie93]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well that’s the beginning of the end. 

the beginning of the end was integration with the American market

the whole purpose of Canada being to prevent that

 we are well into the post Canada era already

 

[Michael Hardner]

29 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. I did say you make it "sound" like we are getting a win fall in return even included the quote in my post... (745.00 buys a lot of gas) sounds like you think it is a win fall... tell me what is so twisted about my response. Yes, you did give some responses to other posts, and I thought you did not respond to the points I was addressing.  

2. The Carbon tax is a huge failure, it fails to accomplish the goals it set out to if any goals were met. 

3. 80 % of consumers are not going to be covered (that is the point), the carbon tax is about more than 11 cents a liter, it is about how it affects everything like fuel prices, food prices, and prices on everything that is shipped by boat and truck, hidden costs that you are not taking into account The government has said it has taken into account all those aspects, which they did not do a very good job at, and how could they, do they have all the information on every Canadian.

1. It's twisted because I did not come on here to claim Climate Change costs nothing, much less did i come on here to say we would get MORE money because of it.  It's like people who come on here and say "Trudeau murders babies" and I ask for proof whereupon they say "YOU LOVE TRUDEAU".  Just try to be reasonable and get the context of my posts please.

2. I doubt you have evidence for this.  Again, you are engaging in blather and rhetoric rather than looking at posts and discussion points.

3. How do you know they didn't do a good job ?  

You just want to talk about things based on how you feel, it seems to me.
 

[blackbird]

11 hours ago, August1991 said:

I strongly disagree.

A tax on carbon dioxide emissions is a premium on an insurance policy. 

You and millions of others are completely deceived by the U.N. , environmentalists, and left wing governments (liberals and NDP).  There is no climate crisis and man cannot control the climate or weather.  The truth is man emits a tiny amount of CO2 into the atmosphere and Canada's emissions are negligible.  There is no proof this miniscule amount of CO2 emitted by mankind makes any difference to the climate.  We are being conned big time and we are paying heavily for it.  It is hurting millions of Canadians.

quote

“The oceans contain 37,400 billion tons (GT) of suspended carbon, land biomass has 2000-3000 GT. The atpmosphere contains 720 billion tons of CO2 and humans contribute only 6 GT additional load on this balance. The oceans, land and atpmosphere exchange CO2 continuously so the additional load by humans is incredibly small. A small shift in the balance between oceans and air would cause a CO2 much more severe rise than anything we could produce.”      unquote

How do human CO2 emissions compare to natural CO2 emissions? (skepticalscience.com)

Edited June 20, 2022 by blackbird

[Dougie93]

53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

I did say you make it "sound" like we are getting a win fall in return even included the quote in my post... (745.00 buys a lot of gas) sounds like you think it is a win fall... tell me what is so twisted about my response. Yes, you did give some responses to other posts, and I thought you did not respond to the points I was addressing.  

The Carbon tax is a huge failure, it fails to accomplish the goals it set out to if any goals were met. 

80 % of consumers are not going to be covered (that is the point), the carbon tax is about more than 11 cents a liter, it is about how it affects everything like fuel prices, food prices, and prices on everything that is shipped by boat and truck, hidden costs that you are not taking into account The government has said it has taken into account all those aspects, which they did not do a very good job at, and how could they, do they have all the information on every Canadian.

the population is aging out

the debt to gdp ratio is now at 107%

the revenue has to come from somewhere

money printing is rapidly running up against inflation

so the young will have to pay more tax

to maintain the lifestyle for us old folk

so Canada, being a giant self licking ice cream cone, will be taxing them until the pips squeak

couldn't happen to a nicer bunch

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's twisted because I did not come on here to claim Climate Change costs nothing, much less did i come on here to say we would get MORE money because of it.  It's like people who come on here and say "Trudeau murders babies" and I ask for proof whereupon they say "YOU LOVE TRUDEAU".  Just try to be reasonable and get the context of my posts please.

2. I doubt you have evidence for this.  Again, you are engaging in blather and rhetoric rather than looking at posts and discussion points.

3. How do you know they didn't do a good job ?  

You just want to talk about things based on how you feel, it seems to me.
 

No, Army Guy is exactly right.  Carbon taxes are a far reaching tax on goods and services because goods are transported and people need and want to leave their homes.  There’s simply no realistic alternative but to use fuel for the majority of people.  Carbon taxes are overbearing, especially when fuel prices have doubled.  People leave Europe to come here for the higher living standards.  Don’t turn Canada into a miserable sort of post-war socialist dystopia where we have to ration ourselves of food and fuel for some ideologue’s idea of the greater good.  Showing vax passes to get back into your own country, spending half a week’s paycheque on fuel.  I think most fuel taxes should be removed immediately.   

[ironstone]

An interesting article on CO2 emissions.

But if CO2 drives temperature... - Climate Discussion Nexus

All kinds of very interesting videos on climate change. From the 97% consensus myth to the guru of climate change Greta Thunberg.

Video - Climate Discussion Nexus

 

[Dougie93]

6 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 Carbon taxes are a far reaching tax on goods and services because goods are transported and people need and want to leave their homes. 

that's the selling point of the carbon tax

the richer you are, the less it hurts

it's actually a very right wing tax

a tax on everything is a tax on the young & the poor

[blackbird]

The carbon taxes go up with the cost of gas and diesel.  The federal Liberals and B.C. NDP love it because their revenues continue to climb.  They could care less about the cost of living for the middle and low income Canadians.  The politicians all get expense allowances so it makes no difference to them.

[Dougie93]

Canadians have consistently voted for massive government expansion

Tories & Liberals & NDP all spending like drunken sailors to buy votes

it was all being funded by money printing

but now that inflation is going to curtail that, the piper will have to be paid

and yes, that will result in a brutal recession, plausibly a secular bear market, at the very least

what goes up must come down

it is not conservative to say that Canadians will never have to pay the bill for the big government that they made

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The carbon taxes go up with the cost of gas and diesel.  The federal Liberals and B.C. NDP love it because their revenues continue to climb.  They could care less about the cost of living for the middle and low income Canadians.  The politicians all get expense allowances so it makes no difference to them.

but the carbon tax is a flat tax

the government rebates don't really offset its massive exponential effects across the entire economy

so in the end, everybody pays the same

the more money you make, the less the tax impacts you, so it's the opposite of progressive taxation

the carbon tax is positively libertarian in fact

[Army Guy]

37 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. It's twisted because I did not come on here to claim Climate Change costs nothing, much less did i come on here to say we would get MORE money because of it.  It's like people who come on here and say "Trudeau murders babies" and I ask for proof whereupon they say "YOU LOVE TRUDEAU".  Just try to be reasonable and get the context of my posts please.

2. I doubt you have evidence for this.  Again, you are engaging in blather and rhetoric rather than looking at posts and discussion points.

3. How do you know they didn't do a good job?  

You just want to talk about things based on how you feel, it seems to me.
 

1.  I personally don't give a rats ass what Other people say or think about you, I responded to you because your comments in my opinion lean towards your support of the current liberal plan on climate change and its effectiveness. thus opening the whole climate change topic up for discussion. of course, I understand if you find conspiracies more entertaining.

I'll save you some time and you should stop reading right here, as I am no longer interested in your response as it adds nothing to the topic at hand. Maybe next time if you're going to be a dick and don't respond. 

2. I thought a smart guy like you would already know the obvious, but OK, everyone knows that the previous Liberal Party's climate change plans have not met any of its objectives "ever" is a known fact or we would not be on plan number 3 . Carbon pricing main objective is to lower the carbon emissions, and yet they have climbed every year that carbon pricing has been implemented, carbon pricing was introduced to make the public think twice about driving because of the price increase, tax it enough and the people will stop usage.  Now that world events have fossil fuels at twice the price, do you think we are driving less? People are going about their daily business, regardless of price. people are still traveling, by plane bus, car, or train. more than ever thanks to the end of lockdowns. 

3.  Maybe you are a millionaire mike and have not felt any changes to your pocketbook, but look around everything cost more, and yes the carbon tax has some responsibility for that. Maybe you don't think that 11 cents a liter are not being passed on to consumers. Business passes everything on to the consumers, increasing costs for production, and transportation. I know you city boys think shit just magically appears on store shelves.

 

Quote

 

An examination of Canada’s various carbon pricing programs reveals a history of flawed implementation that undermines the utility and efficiency of carbon pricing. Rather than obeying fundamental economic principles of true revenue neutrality, regulatory displacement, and allowing markets to find lower cost ways to reduce carbon, Canada’s carbon taxes are piled on top of regulations, are not revenue neutral, and subvert the functioning of energy markets by mandating particular technologies such as wind and solar power, and electric vehicles.

Canada’s Climate Action Plans: Are They Cost-effective? | Fraser Institute

 

10 % of all climate change funds that are collected are invested to support the below. Does not leave much for other R&D in new climate change ideas or technology. That's what I call fighting a "climate emergency"

Quote

or those provinces that do not meet the federal stringency requirements—Ontario, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta— approximately 90 per cent of direct proceeds are returned to residents of those provinces through Climate Action Incentive (CAI) payments. The other 10 per cent is used to support small businesses, farmers, and Indigenous groups.

Climate Action Incentive payment amounts for 2022-23 - Canada.ca

 

 

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, Dougie93 said:

that's the selling point of the carbon tax

the richer you are, the less it hurts

it's actually a very right wing tax

a tax on everything is a tax on the young & the poor

The “left” don’t even know what left is anymore.  Weirdly many of the part-commies like myself support the conservatives because the Libs are a bunch of controlling elitist creepers.  The stakeholder capitalist internationalists are all about making workers make draconian sacrifices so they can fly private jets to pristine retreats in Switzerland.  It’s a sick joke.  Rules for thee but not for me.  Trudeau clocked 38,000 km of air travel in a month for useless photo ops and ribbon cutting, but we should stay home to keep safe and prevent global warming.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The “left” don’t even know what left is anymore.  Weirdly many of the part-commies like myself support the conservatives because the Libs are a bunch of controlling elitist creepers.  The stakeholder capitalist internationalists are all about making workers make draconian sacrifices so they can fly private jets to pristine retreats in Switzerland.  It’s a sick joke.  Rules for thee but not for me.  Trudeau clocked 38,000 km of air travel in a month for useless photo ops and ribbon cutting, but we should stay home to keep safe and prevent global warming.

with crisis comes opportunity

Justin & Jagmeet will be blamed for everything

even tho the money printing has been going on since the Dot Com crash when Greenspan initiated QE

it's not important what is true

all that matters is that the leftists be blamed for everything

which they always are

so burn baby burn

it's all to the good in the end

thus is the stuff virulently right wing revanchist counterrevolutions are made of

rejoice at the coming of the crash

only then can things get radical

Weimarization ftw

[Yzermandius19]

9 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

How does this solve climate change exactly ?

it doesn't but neither does a carbon tax

not paying the carbon tax has an upside

paying the carbon tax is all downside

[Michael Hardner]

15 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

it doesn't but neither does a carbon tax

not paying the carbon tax has an upside

paying the carbon tax is all downside

So problem not solved.

Do you propose we try to do anything to mitigate effects of carbon produced by humans?

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

but the carbon tax is a flat tax

the government rebates don't really offset its massive exponential effects across the entire economy

so in the end, everybody pays the same

the more money you make, the less the tax impacts you, so it's the opposite of progressive taxation

the carbon tax is positively libertarian in fact

 

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

but the carbon tax is a flat tax

the government rebates don't really offset its massive exponential effects across the entire economy

so in the end, everybody pays the same

the more money you make, the less the tax impacts you, so it's the opposite of progressive taxation

the carbon tax is positively libertarian in fact

Yes, the carbon tax is a flat rate.   In B.C. the rebate is based on one's income.  So most of the rebates go to very low income people.  People that make or earn more than the specified amount, receive a very small rebate.  That's the NDP policy.  It's a kind of Communist system of wealth redistribution cloaked under a mask of fighting climate change.  That's why they like the carbon tax system.

Edited June 20, 2022 by blackbird

[Yzermandius19]

48 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

So problem not solved.

Do you propose we try to do anything to mitigate effects of carbon produced by humans?

sure

but that doesn't mean we should do that with a moronic tax

give the government more money or control is not the solution

all these fake environmentalists are just using the environment as an excuse to implement shitty leftist policies

if they really cared about the environment, that wouldn't be the case

therefore it's not about the environment, it's about control

since any measure that doesn't give the government more control and/or more taxpayers money is dismissed as not good enough

it is clear what their actual priority really is, regardless of cloaking their agenda as being about something more palatable

obvious scam is obvious

Edited June 20, 2022 by Yzermandius19