Canada Must Exit Climate Agreement Immediately

[Michael Hardner]

41 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

1. That's my excuse, Michael, as I'm not the smart guy in the room, you used to be that guy, and now that the inmates have taken over the school you are more of the pissed-off an employee and it shows in your posts lately, my opinion.

2. Yes it is, dire, and yes saving 11 cents per liter would make a difference.

 

1. If you can find a post where I call myself 'smart' then let's see it.
2. I agree that it would make a difference but not that it would fix things as some have asserted.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, August1991 said:

Blackbird,

I approach this question from a completely different way.

The "environment" is a common resource. Example: Your neighbour imposes a cost but you can't stop her. Well, you can move to a different neighbourhood.

I can't move to a different planet.

=====

I entirely agree that the Left has taken over this issue. Watermelons: Green on the outside but left inside.

And with the Left, it is always about "control".

I am one of the victims of the climate "crisis" and the highway robbery of carbon taxes since 2008.   I was robbed of $2500 from 2008 to 2016 in the form of carbon taxes imposed by Premier Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberal government and saw no rebate.

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How many times do alarmists have to fall for lie after lie … like Al Gore’s claim that the polar ice would melt by 2013; or Obama’s science advisor (John Holdren) said CO2 induced famines could kill as many as a billion people before 2020; or the father of global warming (James Hansen) said in 1986 that temperatures could rise by 7 degrees Fahrenheit by 2020 (but it only rose by 1 degree Fahrenheit); or Al Gore’s science advisor (Michael Oppenheimer) said in 1990 that by 1996 the Platte River of Nebraska would be dry and the Mexican police will round up illegal American migrants surging into Mexico seeking work; or Prince Charles said in 2009 that we have 50 days to save the planet from catastrophe; or the UN climate official (Noel Brown) said in 1989 that entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if global warming is not reversed by the year 2000.  There’s hundreds more of similar alarmist claims over the decades — but you get the idea — they’re all lies.    Unquote

Man-made climate change scam - Villages-News.com

 

[August1991]

44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

I am one of the victims of the climate "crisis" and the highway robbery of carbon taxes since 2008.   I was robbed of $2500 from 2008 to 2016 in the form of carbon taxes imposed by Premier Gordon Campbell and the BC Liberal government and saw no rebate.

 

Blackbird, 

Robbed in BC? Move to Alberta.

====

Nowadays, people speak of "privilege". You could have been born in New Jersey.

Clueless.

 

 

[marcus]

Gas prices have increased all over the world. It's not just in Canada. It doesn't matter if it's a leftist, centrist or rightwing government.

A little oilsands 101:

 

 

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, August1991 said:

Blackbird, 

Robbed in BC? Move to Alberta.

====

Nowadays, people speak of "privilege". You could have been born in New Jersey.

Clueless.

 

 

"AHHH...WE ALL GONA DIIIEEE!!!"

[Nationalist]

4 hours ago, marcus said:

Gas prices have increased all over the world. It's not just in Canada. It doesn't matter if it's a leftist, centrist or rightwing government.

A little oilsands 101:

 

 

And what would you propose? Stop mining the oil sands?

Oil and gas prices have shot up because of stupidity. Europe made countless deals with Russia for oil and gas. The USA elects a moron who stomps on the American oil and gas industry. The Tweenkies scream and make all sorts of insane doomsday predictions. Then...Russia invades Ukraine and the shit show begins.

Utter morons...

[Dougie93]

contrary to popular sentiment, the government is not actually curtailing oil sands production

it's really the oil price which determines when the oil sands are profitable

with the rise in the crude price, oil sands production is ramping up again

2022 has seen an increase of 182 million barrels of oil from the oil sands, reaching 3.25 billion barrels per day

that is a new all time high for oil sands production

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

 

Oil and gas prices have shot up because of stupidity. Europe made countless deals with Russia for oil and gas. The USA elects a moron who stomps on the American oil and gas industry.

Utter morons...

but this a boon to Canada

Canada being a net oil exporter

the high crude price combined with the lack of supply is a windfall for Canada 

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but this a boon to Canada

Canada being a net oil exporter

the high crude price combined with the lack of supply is a windfall for Canada 

Except between Pixie-Dust and Ol' Joe are crapping on the fossil fuel industries.

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but this a boon to Canada

Canada being a net oil exporter

the high crude price combined with the lack of supply is a windfall for Canada 

So why do Canadians pay 80% more for fuel than Americans?  Most of our fuel taxes must be scrapped right now, especially carbon taxes.  Energy East must be built immediately with domestic refining.  If Quebec doesn’t play ball, scrap the transfer payments to them or simply encourage them to leave Canada.  We can at least bring the oil to Sarnia, Ontario and refine it there and distribute it from there.  40% of the population is in Ontario and we can distribute refined oil and gas to the northeastern states from there.  

[Dougie93]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Except between Pixie-Dust and Ol' Joe are crapping on the fossil fuel industries.

but Trudeau isn't really in control of the oil market

the Russia situation is breaking Globalism while driving the price of crude back up to big profits

this business is coming to Canada whether the lefties like it or not

and the high oil price is not the cause of inflation, it's a result

the cause of inflation is money printing

Canada is not taxing to fund the government, Canada is not even borrowing

they've now been reduced to printing money at the central bank to cover the spending

Trudeau & Co printed 400 billion and flooded that cash into the economy

that is what is causing the inflation, more dollars chasing the same amount of oil is what drives the prices up

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

So why do Canadians pay 80% more for fuel than Americans? 

the biggest reasons are economies of scale and a lack of refining capacity in Canada

everything is more expensive in Canada due to economies of scale

and most of the oil that Canadians use comes from Saudi Arabia by way of one refinery in New Brunswick

most of the oil which Canada produces has to be shipped to the US to be refined

Canada exports crude oil, but pays through the nose for refined gasoline, because Canada can't refine its own oil

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

but Trudeau isn't really in control of the oil market

the Russia situation is breaking Globalism while driving the price of crude back up to big profits

this business is coming to Canada whether the lefties like it or not

and the high oil price is not the cause of inflation, it's a result

the cause of inflation is money printing

Canada is not taxing to fund the government, Canada is not even borrowing

they've now been reduced to printing money at the central bank to cover the spending

Trudeau & Co printed 400 billion and flooded that cash into the economy

that is what is causing the inflation, more dollars chasing the same amount of oil is what drives the prices up

True...this is a big part of the problem too.

Not the only part...but a HUGE one for sure.

[Dougie93]

Canadians are not paying 80% more for gas btw

in Canadian dollars, the average price of gas in America right now is $1.62 litre

it's $2.08 a litre in Ontario right now

so that's only 33% more in Canada

you have to consider however, that Texas is the biggest oil refining state on earth by far

the massive refining capacity in Texas alone makes gas cheaper in America

while Canada exports a lot of crude oil, Canada does not produce much gasoline in comparison

there's crude oil

and then there's gasoline

if there is a bottleneck for gasoline in Canada, it's not the crude production

it's simply that nobody in Canada will build a new oil refinery

Canada has the crude, but can't make it into gas

so the gas we are buying in Ontario is coming from Arabia

the bottleneck is that it all goes through one refinery in NB

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Norway is another big crude producer per capita

and the gas price in Norway is exactly the same as in Ontario : $2.08 CAD per litre

America is a singular case, nobody refines gasoline like America does

Canada is never going to produce gasoline on a scale to rival America, it's just not possible for Canada

and again, you have to factor in inflation

the Liberals are printing hundreds of billions of new dollars

so your dollars are worth less

inflation adjusted, the oil price is not actually at a peak

the inflation adjusted peak was $168 constant dollars per barrel, in 2008

inflation adjusted, the oil price is only $101 constant dollars right now

the Canadian dollar has lost 21% of its value since 2008

that means, your inflation adjusted gas price is only $1.64 CAD in 2008 dollars

the central bank is inflating the money supply

your dollars are devalued, and you have more dollars chasing the same amount of gas

that is why the prices are up, it has nothing to do with Canadian crude production either way

this price spike is however why oil sands production is ramping up again in Alberta

the sweet spot price for Alberta oil sands being $100/barrel

and again, the inflation adjusted price right now : $101/barrel

in order to get an accurate historical view of the prices, you have to calculate it inflation adjusted

the average gas price in Canada in 2008 was $1.40 CAD a litre

in 2008 dollars, the price right now is $1.64 CAD per litre

so your inflation adjusted increase is 24 cents per litre, which is only up 14%

that's spread over 14 years, so the average rate of increase is only 1% per year

so actually, the gas price in Canada is beating inflation

thus, net net, gas is actually not that much more expensive in comparison to what it was in 2008

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

True...this is a big part of the problem too.

Not the only part...but a HUGE one for sure.

the most significant harm the Liberals are inflicting on you is the money printing

they don't tax to pay for their spending

the debt is so massive now, they can't even borrow anymore at a low rate

so the Bank of Canada is printing hundreds of billions of new dollars to pay for the government spending

this is devaluing your money, and creating all these new dollars without increasing the supply

it's a silent tax, they are taxing you by inflation

this will eventually lead to a massive correction and bear market, when interest rates inevitably have to rise

the Liberals are just kicking that can down the road, assuming it will be somebody else's problem by then

this is what the Liberals did in the 1970's under Pierre Trudeau too

leading to the inflation crisis of 1980-81

the difference now however, is that Canadians are carrying exponentially more debt

the whole economy is leveraged on an unprecedented scale

so interest being forced up to 20% in 1980 caused the worst recession since the Great Depression

when that happens again, this debt bomb is going to implode

then you're talking a correction which could actually exceed the scale of the Great Depression

even if it didn't technically result in a net negative wage & price spiral

you're looking at a brutal "recession" which could persist for more than a decade

for historical analogy, see : The Long Depression 1873 - 1896

life altering for most Canadians

what we are living in now will become the "good old days" when the shit eventually hits the fan

it's not going to happen next week, as I say, they are punting, kicking it into the future

but by doing so, the leverage is getting ever more massive as we go

they printed $400 billion in just one year, so this is exponentially compounding leverage now

the longer this goes on, the worst the catastrophe when it finally comes home to roost

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dougie93

[Nationalist]

39 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

the most significant harm the Liberals are inflicting on you is the money printing

they don't tax to pay for their spending

the debt is so massive now, they can't even borrow anymore at a low rate

so the Bank of Canada is printing hundreds of billions of new dollars to pay for the government spending

this is devaluing your money, and creating all these new dollars without increasing the supply

it's a silent tax, they are taxing you by inflation

this will eventually lead to a massive correction and bear market, when interest rates inevitably have to rise

the Liberals are just kicking that can down the road, assuming it will be somebody else's problem by then

this is what the Liberals did in the 1970's under Pierre Trudeau too

leading to the inflation crisis of 1980-81

the difference now however, is that Canadians are carrying exponentially more debt

the whole economy is leveraged on an unprecedented scale

so interest being forced up to 20% in 1980 caused the worst recession since the Great Depression

when that happens again, this debt bomb is going to implode

then you're talking a correction which could actually exceed the scale of the Great Depression

even if it didn't technically result in a net negative wage & price spiral

you're looking at a brutal "recession" which could persist for more than a decade

for historical analogy, see : The Long Depression 1873 - 1896

life altering for most Canadians

what we are living in now will become the "good old days" when the shit eventually hits the fan

it's not going to happen next week, as I say, they are punting, kicking it into the future

but by doing so, the leverage is getting ever more massive as we go

they printed $400 billion in just one year, so this is exponentially compounding leverage now

the longer this goes on, the worst the catastrophe when it finally comes home to roost

I know.

[Dougie93]

7 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I know.

copy that, I was just putting it out there for the forum

but it's not called moral hazard for nothing

the moral degeneracy you are witnessing in society, is a product of this money printing leftist loonie la-la-land

society itself has become detached from reality, because nobody is paying for anything

you can be as loonie as you like, when money is free and nothing has to be paid for

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dougie93

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

copy that, I was just putting it out there for the forum

but it's not called moral hazard for nothing

the moral degeneracy you are witnessing in society, is a product of this money printing leftist loonie la-la-land

society itself has become detached from reality, because nobody is paying for anything

you can be as loonie as you like, when money is free and nothing has to be paid for

True. Yet its also true that we have a serious problem with Libbies who would destroy Canada's biggest advantage...just so they can "feel better".

[Zeitgeist]

Many economists are calling a recession first half of 2023, but I think it could come much sooner.  Mortgage renewals and triggers at higher rates are imminent.   If the housing bubble bursts with mortgage defaults, that’s the mainstay of Canada’s growth the past decade plus.  The only counter that might prevent this is the backlog of over 2 million immigrants already in the pipeline.  Price growth/maintenance through immigration.  However, home price declines seem inevitable with rising inflation and interest rates.  Already underway.  The only question now is, will it be a collapse?

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

True. Yet its also true that we have a serious problem with Libbies who would destroy Canada's biggest advantage...just so they can "feel better".

I don't think they will make much of a dent in it

when the piper has to be paid, the masses will turn hard against "Environmentalism"

particularly as energy replaces tech as the big growth sector, which always happens in a correction

oil & gold will rule once again

[Dougie93]

this is however Canada's ace in the hole

ultimately Canada has two big probems

demographics, the population is shrinking

energy, Canada does not leverage its own energy anywhere near as much as it could

so Canada could get itself out of the depression

by massively increasing immigration, while building Canadian energy production, starting with refining

Canada has the oil & gas

it just has to be refined in Canada for Canada's purposes, to unlock the boom

never mind the oil sands,  the future is shale

to wit, frack baby frack

it's easy to get, it's close to market, all that is needed is the refining capacity to leverage it

Edited June 22, 2022 by Dougie93

[Zeitgeist]

8 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

this is however Canada's ace in the hole

ultimately Canada has two big probems

demographics, the population is shrinking

energy, Canada does not leverage its own energy anywhere near as much as it could

so Canada could get itself out of the depression

by massively increasing immigration, while building Canadian energy production, starting with refining

My only issue with this is that 7 out of 10 immigrants come to Toronto, the fastest growing major western city.  That’s why home prices are insane.  Actually 4 of the 5 most expensive cities in North America are in Canada, three of them in Ontario.  Only New York makes the list.  Toronto will likely be larger than any US city except New York by the 2050’s.  That’s why I’m not sure the house price declines will be sharp here.  The long term trend is up until the worldwide demographic population collapse of the 2050’s.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. Yes I already acknowledged your point.  You are correct and it's a valid point.

Kudos to you sir, that's very rare in this day age. 

Quote

2. Well it's not like Canada isn't ABLE to invent or export technology. 

We can and we do. We definitely punch above our weight class when you consider the amount of Canadian innovation that's still coming out in the world, relative to our minuscule population. 

Quote

I thought patriots believed in their country and you were a patriot ?

I definitely was a patriot, less so now. I just lose more and more respect for Canadians every day. 

But the fact remains, we'll never be a manufacturing powerhouse because of our small population, high energy costs, how spread out our population is, etc. 

Countries like China, Malaysia, Indonesia, SoKo, Japan, the US, Mexico etc have larger populations and a cheaper workforce. We can't possibly compete with them in manufacturing unless we all take a huge pay-cut.

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3. As ever, there's a conspiracy and a belief that everybody in the world is money mongering without proof.  Your world view isn't any more valid than a hippy who believes everything is peace and love.

Pelosi's net worth speaks for itself. Her and her hubby aren't just lucky. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

My only issue with this is that 7 out of 10 immigrants come to Toronto,

most of the immigrants who made America into a superpower went to New York City

you would have to accept some tumult, just as America did in the Long Depression

that's what it was, the Long Depression was driving all those immigrants to New York

people move out of Toronto gradually

the Italians move out and are replaced by Jamaicans, then the Jamaicans move, replaced by Somalis, etc

it's not a orderly process, but Canada is desperate for people

without a massive influx of immigrants, there will be a demographic collapse

America & Mexico will eat Canada's lunch, if Canada can't get out of the demographic collapse vector