The HAMAS Charter - Murderous Insanity

[Boges]

It's interesting to see how the Israel haters on this board are largely silent in this thread when presented with evidence that Hamas has no interest in peace.

[Rue]

Well do not forget Boges there is a thread for the downfall of Zionists and in that thread Jacee and Marcus advised as to the difference between jew Jews and Zionist Jews. See now using their theory that everyone knows the difference between a good Jew (a Jew Jew) and a Zionist Jew (poo bad very bad very very bad) they might not be able to explain that Charter of Hamas.

Could be why they are oh shall we say trying to figure out how to spin Hamas as only being mad at Zionist Jews and you know not Jew Jews.

Now of course why stop at Hamas. The PA Charter calls for a Muslim sharia law state as well.

Now I have read with great interest the debate on whether this conflict is between Jews and Palestinians or Hamas and the Israeli government, etc.

I personally believe for Hamas, Palestinian Jihad, the PA, and all the other terror cells at the pith and substance of their dispute with Israel and refusing o recognize it is BOTH a religious belief and a psychological denial. Two processes.

The religious one is fueled by Mullahs, Imams and Muslims who interpret their religion to believe that non Muslims can not own land and be equal to Muslims. That belief which still exists as the apartheid and discriminatory practice of dhimmitude and is practiced across the Arab League nations is something Jacee and Marcus will not acknowledge. They will not come on this board and acknowledge that in Sharia Law nations where Muslim rligion and the state are not separate, there is institutional bias against Jews and this is precisely why the Jews in Arab nations today live in fear an in dwindling numbers and have none of the rights Muslims have in Israel. Not one Arab country that denies Israel's right to exist as a Jewish nation affords its non Muslims not just Jews, the rights Israel confers to its non Jews.

In Iran, they wipe out the Bahaiis while in Israel we welcome their chief temple in Haifa and their decision to place their headquarters there. They are a peaceful people with respect and tolerance and not one word of hatred in their beliefs and yet in Iran they are considered infidel.

Oh but you know being a Christian in Sudan. Egypt or Afghanistan well its wonderful. Women who think they are equal to men, gay people. Berbers, Kurds, Druze, Buddists, Hindus, they have received nothing but love in Muslim sharia law nations.

Let's get real, the prevalent sharia law nations in the Middle East live in the stone age when it comes to religion and tolerance. They believe in one way and if you do not believe in that one way, whether you are Muslim, Jewish, Christian, Bahaii, etc., you are treated with intolerance.

The Muslim world is as much at war with its own people as it is with Jews.

People tend to think that the Muslim world is only at war with Jews. Bull. They are at war with their own people more than they are with Jews. They are at war with the majority of people on this planet and its a religious war.

The average Muslim? You tell me. Its wrong to generalize and call all Muslims intolerant or terrorist yes just as it is wrong to label al Zionists or Israelis as Nazis. Its bull. But, who and where does the support for radical Islamist extremism comes from?

The pith and substance of the conflict in Palestine Israel make nomistake asfor as Hamas and the PA are concerned a religious one that envisions no Jews owning land let alone a state because of Sharia law.

Then there is an actual psychological denial-a collective denial that arose in the Arab world when German Nazi anti-Semitism and British-French anti-Semitism came from Europe and intermixed with pan Arab Muslim anti-Semitism to mutate into a form of hatred of Jews that added to a Muslim religious basis further non religious concepts such as the European myths that Jews are conspiring to rule the world. In today'sMuslim anti-Semitism intermixed with traditional Muslim anti-semtiic concepts referring to Jews as infidels, are references to Jews owning all the banks, the media, running the illuminati, freemasons, even the Lions and Kiwanis clubs.

Hamas is not that anyone cares to notice under the belief that Lions club and Kiwanis Club members and Free Masons are all part of the Zionist Jewish conspiracy of the illuminati. I always suspected Lions club members. They are sinister people. I met one. He said hello to me and offered me some blueberry pie at a picnic. Never mind he made that pie with Crisco which is pork lard, he was trying to convert me to the sinister Jew world.

As for the average Palestinian, I personally believe they voted for Hamas as a repudiation of Arafat and not necessarily in support of terrorism in the past because at that time Hamas was not terrorist and its charities were non violent and the only non corrupt social services available.

I am also loath to label Palestinians en masse as anything negative,. This dehumanizes them as lesser humans and its wrong. They are humans. They have a right to live in peace. I personally believe the majority are held as hostages by Hamas and do not necessarily support it but are powerless to speak against Hamas. I think the moderates of the Palestinian world left long ago to Europe and the US and have tried to put radical Muslim extremism behind them. I know many of them.

They are no more terrorist then I am. They loath seeing their people die and people sterotyping Palestinians as animals or scum. I do not speak for them. I only listen. All I can say is they have no issue with Israel being a Jewish state. They have an issue with war and violence no matter who engages in it.

Those moderates feel they have no say now in the future of their people and I say they are needed. They are needed to speak out and reach out to their counterparts in Israel. We need a grassroots uprising of Israeli and Palestinian citizens and when I say uprising I mean it in a non violent way where bth peoples on a non political level can meet and form networks.

This can be done at summer camps for children, exchanges between parents through home-stays, obviously in neutral countries. It means getting Muslim and Jewish communities in Europe and North America forming groups to support each other's right to exist.

These people I believe are the silent majority but will not make noise as they believe it is a waste of time.

I believe they believe they are politically powerless.

M I am naïve I guess. I think Martin Luther King showed they are not and that rainbow coalitions can be formed at a grassroots level that are every much as politically powerful as any terrorist organization.

I believe Muslim moderates need to come out in the open, denounce terrorism, denounce radical Islam used to justify war and hatred and not be afraid to state they have zero problem with a Jewish state and this in turn can empowerpro Israel moderates to push for peace on our side and be able to say there is an alternative to Hamas and violence, there is a partner of peace to reach out to.

Right now what we have is what we have religious nutcases like Hamas who attract a mix of extreme left and right wing lunatics and Jew haters and young people sheltered from the world living in Mama's basement on the internet who need black and white sound bites from extremists to simplify the world's complex maze of conflicts and turn it into an easy to understand script.

[marcus]

It's interesting to see how the Israel haters on this board are largely silent in this thread when presented with evidence that Hamas has no interest in peace.

Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Likud's platform does not recognize a Palestinian State. Netanyahu has come out and said what everyone knows already; He is not interested in allowing a Palestinian state to be formed.

So what now?

[Black Dog]

It's interesting to see how the Israel haters on this board are largely silent in this thread when presented with evidence that Hamas has no interest in peace.

Is there anyone who actually believes otherwise?

[Boges]

Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Likud's platform does not recognize a Palestinian State. Netanyahu has come out and said what everyone knows already; He is not interested in allowing a Palestinian state to be formed.

So what now?

It's clear Hamas isn't negotiating in a position of strength. I don't really see the global outrage over this current fight. Now perhaps if Hamas/Palestine weren't undertaking a Guerilla War and they may receive more broad international support.

Why doesn't Iran have their back anymore?

[Big Guy]

...

I am naïve I guess. I think Martin Luther King showed they are not and that rainbow coalitions can be formed at a grassroots level that are every much as politically powerful as any terrorist organization.

..

I do not think you are naive. To allow the extremists on both sides to continue with their agendas is to accept that these two countries are in a mutual death grip that can result only in the annihilation of one or both. I believe that we/they have the same human spirit which will win out before allowing a nation to disappear.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Big Guy

[overthere]

It's clear Hamas isn't negotiating in a position of strength. I don't really see the global outrage over this current fight. Now perhaps if Hamas/Palestine weren't undertaking a Guerilla War and they may receive more broad international support.

Why doesn't Iran have their back anymore?

Iran most definitely has their back, where do you think the endless supply of rockets comes from?

Hamas and Likud are in the same boat. Likud's platform does not recognize a Palestinian State. Netanyahu has come out and said what everyone knows already; He is not interested in allowing a Palestinian state to be formed.

So what now?

They are not remotely similar, except in the most corrupt and fevered imaginations.

Is there something in the charter of Likud that calls for the physical extermination of every Arab?

Any evidence that Likud launches random rocket attacks on Gaza?

[PIK]

I believe that the Israelis are doing what they believe to be the best for Israel and Hamas is doing what it thinks is best for Palestinians. Hamas was "legally" and "democratically" elected. If that was a mistake, then too bad, other democracies have elected the wrong governments. At this moment, Hamas speaks for and represents the Palestinians in Gaza.

Hamas has been the only organization which has been looking after those Palestinians. It had established a health and social services system (funded probably by Qatar) when the rest of the world was cutting off aid and squeezing these people into that open concentration camp called Gaza. For this reason, there are still many Palestinians in Gaza who still support Hamas even after having been led into this slaughter.

There are many countries in the world who are sympathetic to the fate of those in Gaza.

Just because there are countries, people and posters who are not walking lock step behind the Israeli current policy and military action does not mean that they are pro-Hamas. They just may be part of the pro innocent people (both Israeli and Palestinian) not getting killed group.

But there will always be those who will continue to chant their "you are with us or you are with the enemy" mantra. A guy by the name of McCarthy, a USA Senator in the 1950's tried that route successfully for a while until people challenged his stupidity. Another Canadian federal minister by the name of Toews declared that about his proposed Internet legislation "you can either stand with us or with the child pornographers!"

Canadians saw through that tactic and soon disappeared into the private sector.

Hamas is doing what is best for hamas. Israel wants peace the palastine people want peace ,but hamas does not, it is very simple. Israel would be a great neighbour for palastine in a 2 state system. But as long as hamas is there it will never happen. I can't understand when something is so obvious ,people still have to question the jews. The facts are there is you want the truth and if you can't see it ,you have issues yourself.

[Moonbox]

I agree with you. Doubly unfortunate is that this deeply ingrained notion of Jewish annihilation stretches to elements of most Islamic countries, not the least of which is Iran.

I'm not sure if 'most' Islamic countries want Israel annihilated, as only a handful of nutter nations actually take that position officially, but there is certainly a large number of Muslims who hold that sentiment.

There is a strong argument that the Palestinian people have been held hostage all these years by their Islamic sympathizers - using them as proxies for their hatred of Israel and their collective goal of its destruction.

No doubt they are engaging in a proxy war, but the very nature of a proxy war requires willing combatants. You can't simply send money and weapons to a country. You need popular support, places to hide, and willing recruits. Do radicals in Iran and elsewhere fan the flames? Sure, but you can't fan the flames unless there's already a fire.

[Big Guy]

...

I can't understand when something is so obvious ,people still have to question the jews. The facts are there is you want the truth and if you can't see it ,you have issues yourself.

"You have issues yourself".

I hope that this is not another "you disagree with Israeli policy and action then you are anti-semitic" ploy.

It has been tried here and elsewhere and has not worked.

I also noted that in your previous statement that you posted " I can't understand when something is so obvious ,people still have to question the jews." I suggest it is you who are equating the religion to the government. There are non-Jews in Israel also.

If you cannot see the difference between the Hebew religion and what it represents and the government of Israel and what its policies are then I suggest that you may have issues yourself.

Thank you for your comments.

[Keepitsimple]

20% of Israel's population is Arab - almost all of which are identified as Palestinian heritage. Here's a breakdown of Palestinians - the vast majority of whom would accept Israel's right to exist and welcome a lasting peace:

Gaza (Hamas) - 1.7 million
West Bank - Mahmoud Abbas Fatah - 2.7 million
Israeli Arabs (mostly Palestinian) - 1.7 million living in Israel

And guess which group has the best life? Pretty simple solution really.....Hamas recognizes Israel's right to exist......and we go from there. That's why the Hamas Charter is so important.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[eyeball]

What does anti-Semite even mean given Palestinians are Semites too?

I'm equally disgusted with both sides in this stupid conflict but I'm an atheist so...go figure.

[The_Squid]

Thanks for the report. Let us handle this.In the meant time, please ignore anybody who you perceive to be violating the forum rules and do not respond in kind.Ch. A.

Why did you choose to make Shady's report public in this thread?

[The_Squid]

What does anti-Semite even mean given Palestinians are Semites too?

I'm equally disgusted with both sides in this stupid conflict but I'm an atheist so...go figure.

Agreed. Both sides are perpetrating horrific acts.

[Argus]

The Hamas government does appear to be taking the Gaza Palestinians on a road to annihilation but it also appears that there are many Palestinians who are prepared to die rather than continue to live under the current conditions imposed by Israel.

The idea things would be better without Israel is born out by no evidence whatsoever. An independant Hamas controlled Palestine would be a brutal, autocratic dictatorship (which is what it is now) with no money, and no resources, and likely devoting all its efforts into military buildups.

I also feel that to succumb to the current conditions by stopping the rocket attacks and accepting Israeli domination and appropriation and settling all of Palestine they would be surrendering their fight. That is their choice as is the choice of Israel to kill then all. Perhaps that is the inevitable end to this conflict - the final solution - the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians in Gaza.

The pro-Israelis will call it mass suicide and the pro-Palestinians will call it ethnic cleansing.

So be it.

The one thing I sort of agree with. The Israelis will kill as many Palestinians as they need to to get the rockets to stop firing into their territory.

[Smallc]

Thanks for the report. Let us handle this.In the meant time, please ignore anybody who you perceive to be violating the forum rules and do not respond in kind.Ch. A.

I consider the first paragraph of the quoted post above to be extremely inappropriate. We don't need to know this publicly, not should we.

[Argus]

I consider the first paragraph of the quoted post above to be extremely inappropriate. We don't need to know this publicly, not should we.

He might have intended to do that as a pm...

[Shady]

Let's remember as well, Hamas has used tens of millions of dollars, and tens of thousands of pounds of cement, not to build businesses, or schools, or hospitals, or universities. But to builid tunnels into Israel. Wonderful priorities.

[Big Guy]

.... The Israelis will kill as many Palestinians as they need to to get the rockets to stop firing into their territory.

It appears that your post is directed to me. I acknowledge that I have seen it. It would be impolite not to do so.

I personally find you an irritant and your recent posts meant to irritate.

Shooo. Go away. Buzz off.

Sorry, I am not interested in engaging in any dialogue with you or your opinions.

Until/if/when you change your approach I will be responding in this manner.

Have a nice day.

[Charles Anthony]

Why did you choose to make Shady's report public in this thread?

Lots of reasons but mainly because I am a gambler.

After 2 members suggested moderator review and after X years of reading you guys go at it from every single angle, I gambled that we would see more requests for moderator review. So, to quell an onslaught of repetitive reports, I decided to let you all know right away that nothing is being ignored --- with the hope that you would all move on.

The other reasons are largely secondary.

[WestCoastRunner]

Not sure why it would have offended anyone. We all knew what was going on.

[Keepitsimple]

It's been mentioned but I still find it troubling how so few posters have joined in the absolute abhorrence to the Hamas charter. I mean - they literally want to kill every Jew in the world.......and yet there is no world-wide clamour for them to change this diabolical manifesto.

Where is the outrage?

[eyeball]

Europeans wanted them all dead too once upon a time.

Things change, usually for the better so just be patient.

[PIK]

"You have issues yourself".

I hope that this is not another "you disagree with Israeli policy and action then you are anti-semitic" ploy.

It has been tried here and elsewhere and has not worked.

I also noted that in your previous statement that you posted " I can't understand when something is so obvious ,people still have to question the jews." I suggest it is you who are equating the religion to the government. There are non-Jews in Israel also.

If you cannot see the difference between the Hebew religion and what it represents and the government of Israel and what its policies are then I suggest that you may have issues yourself.

Thank you for your comments.

I just understand what is going on, I am not blinded by hatred. Hamas is the problem and If I were you, read their charter all the answers to the problem is right there. The destruction of Israel is their mission, nothing and I mean nothing to do with the palastine people. Israel left gaza and took a bunch of settlers with them and what did it get for it, more rockets coming out of gaza. Do the math.

[Boges]

Europeans wanted them all dead too once upon a time.

Things change, usually for the better so just be patient.

After WW2. Is that what it'll take?