The HAMAS Charter - Murderous Insanity

[Keepitsimple]

It's not the Palestinian people who are the barrier to peace - it's Hamas. How can you possibly negotiate with a terrorist group that is so consumed with hate that their only goal is to kill every Jew? No peace can be contemplated, no meaningful negotiation can begin - until the insanity of Hamas is somehow removed from the process. Read the quotations from their charter - these are not idle threats - they are the raison d'etre for Hamas. Lorrie Goldstein captures the insanity quite well:

It wants Israel, ethnically cleansed of the Jews - Judenfrei, as the Nazis called it.

..............To illustrate these two points, lets take a brief look today at the founding Charter of the Islamic Resistance Movement, otherwise known as Hamas, unveiled in 1988.

The following quotations are all taken from it:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."

"Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allahs victory is realized."

"The Slogan of the Islamic Resistance Movement: Allah is its target, the Prophet is its model, the Quran is its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes."

"Hamas has been looking forward to implementing Allahs promise whatever time it might take. The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said: The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him!"

"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Israel is an Islamic Waqf, consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgment Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered; it or any part of it, should not be given up."

"Initiatives and so-called peaceful resolutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement ... There is no solution for the Palestinian question, except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time ..."

"The Zionist invasion is a vicious invasion ... It relies greatly in its infiltration and espionage operations on the secret organizations it gave rise to, such as the Freemasons, The Rotary and the Lions clubs, and other sabotage groups. All these organizations, whether secret or open, work in the interest of Zionism and according to its instructions. They aim at undermining societies, destroying values, corrupting consciences, deteriorating character and annihilating Islam. It is behind the drug trade and alcoholism in all its kinds so as to facilitate its control and expansion."

"Israel, Judaism and Jews challenge Islam and the Muslim people. May the cowards never sleep."

Leaving the circle of struggle with Zionism is high treason and cursed be he who does that ... There is no way out except by concentrating all powers and energies to face this Nazi, vicious Tatar invasion.

So, as you can see, for Israel to negotiate with Hamas for the purpose of achieving a two-state solution a secure Israel living in peace beside a viable Palestine is pretty much a pointless effort at the present time.

Link:http://www.torontosun.com/2014/07/26/hamas-is-insane

Edited July 27, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Shady]

It'll be interesting to see how the pro-Hamas faction of the forum defends this insanity laced manifesto.

[cybercoma]

Hamas and all their sympathizers should be rounded up and executed.

[bush_cheney2004]

Hamas and all their sympathizers should be rounded up and executed.

Preserved for moderator review (forum rules).

Edited July 27, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[dre]

It'll be interesting to see how the pro-Hamas faction of the forum defends this insanity laced manifesto.

Its interesting that anyone is stupid enough to believe there IS a pro hamas faction on this forum.

[Argus]

Its interesting that anyone is stupid enough to believe there IS a pro hamas faction on this forum.

Oh, of course there isn't. Nope. Never would be or could be. We just have people who ignore their actions, make excuses for them, distract from them, and hysterically attack the Jews... er, I mean the Israelis at the drop of a hat. Why would we think they support Hamas when they're really only supporting the Palestinians... who support Hamas...

[cybercoma]

Their support for Hamas is thinly veiled indeed.

[Shady]

Preserved for moderator review (forum rules).

Good idea!

[Big Guy]

I believe that the Israelis are doing what they believe to be the best for Israel and Hamas is doing what it thinks is best for Palestinians. Hamas was "legally" and "democratically" elected. If that was a mistake, then too bad, other democracies have elected the wrong governments. At this moment, Hamas speaks for and represents the Palestinians in Gaza.

Hamas has been the only organization which has been looking after those Palestinians. It had established a health and social services system (funded probably by Qatar) when the rest of the world was cutting off aid and squeezing these people into that open concentration camp called Gaza. For this reason, there are still many Palestinians in Gaza who still support Hamas even after having been led into this slaughter.

There are many countries in the world who are sympathetic to the fate of those in Gaza.

Just because there are countries, people and posters who are not walking lock step behind the Israeli current policy and military action does not mean that they are pro-Hamas. They just may be part of the pro innocent people (both Israeli and Palestinian) not getting killed group.

But there will always be those who will continue to chant their "you are with us or you are with the enemy" mantra. A guy by the name of McCarthy, a USA Senator in the 1950's tried that route successfully for a while until people challenged his stupidity. Another Canadian federal minister by the name of Toews declared that about his proposed Internet legislation "you can either stand with us or with the child pornographers!"

Canadians saw through that tactic and soon disappeared into the private sector.

[cybercoma]

Preserved for moderator review (forum rules).

Why? Because I think we should have zero tolerance for terrorism and terrorist sympathizers? We need to guard against those who would target innocent civilians and the only way to do that is exactly the way the United States handled Al Qaeda. Execute them all, right from the top down. You might not like it, but I don't like the fact that you want to censor me for promoting self-preservation and freedom.

More to the point, do you report posters who call for the death penalty to be reinstated in Canada? Or who celebrate the death penalty in many US states? Of course you don't. Because executing criminals is justice and I'm simply calling for justice for the innocent people of Israel who have been unfairly targeted by these criminals.

Edited July 27, 2014 by cybercoma

[Charles Anthony]

Preserved for moderator review (forum rules).

Good idea!

Thanks for the report. Let us handle this.

In the meant time, please ignore anybody who you perceive to be violating the forum rules and do not respond in kind.

Ch. A.

[bush_cheney2004]

...More to the point, do you report posters who call for the death penalty to be reinstated in Canada? Or who celebrate the death penalty in many US states? Of course you don't. Because executing criminals is justice and I'm simply calling for justice for the innocent people of Israel who have been unfairly targeted by these criminals.

I didn't report anybody in this instance, just quoted your post for mod review.

[scribblet]

Hamas is evil and cannot possibly be conceived as doing what they believe is best for the civilians. If so, they would quit lobbing 100s of rockets a day into Israel knowing the response it will get. Their 'Dead Baby Strategy' (forces Israel to kill as many people as possible) can't be good for the people, but it does get them some PR and sympathetic response, which is what it aims for.

[Keepitsimple]

Form the topic's article:

As for those who argue if Israel wants peace with Hamas it should get out of the Occupied Territories, Israel unilaterally withdrew from one of them — Gaza — in 2005.

Then prime minister Ariel Sharon ordered 45,000 Israeli soldiers and police officers to remove 8,500 Jewish settlers living in 21 Gaza communities.

Settlers in four smaller communities in the West Bank, the other Occupied Territory, were also removed as a gesture of further disengagement if the Palestinians agreed to live alongside Israel in peace.

Instead, Hamas took control of Gaza and used it as a base of operations to launch missiles against Israel, which continues to this day.

I’m pretty sure Prime Minister Stephen Harper has read the Hamas Charter and knows the history of Israel’s unilateral withdrawal from Gaza.

Ban Ki-moon and Obama, I’m not so sure about.

[scribblet]

I'm posting this here because it's from the Toronto Star, I'm actually amazed that they would publish such an article.

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/commentary/2014/07/24/why_hamas_is_guilty_for_the_gaza_war.html

Two months ago, world leaders worried about the more than 200 kidnapped Nigerian schoolgirls. Since then, a more outrageous mass crime has occurred in the Middle East. The radical totalitarian group Hamas is holding nearly 700,000 Gazan children, another 900,000 adults — and much of the world — hostage, with lethal results.

Nine years ago, Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip. A constructive nationalist movement could have built a viable Palestinian state on Gaza’s beautiful seacoast. The world was ready to shower Palestinian pioneers with billions in aid (and did, even as Palestinian extremists chose to develop crude weapons, not their coastline).

American Jewish philanthropists alone donated $14 million to purchase Israel’s Gazan greenhouses to share with the Palestinians. The agricultural techniques Israelis developed — often working with Palestinians — cultivating Gaza’s natural assets could have made Gaza the Palestinian Riviera. Had this experiment in Gaza nation-building succeeded, it could have encouraged a peaceful transition toward an independent West Bank state.

Instead, claiming that not one inch of Palestinian land is free until all of it is freed, which means destroying Israel within pre-1948 borders, blinded by the totalitarian, anti-Semitic, anti-Zionist Islamist ideology articulated in Hamas’s charter and celebrated in mainstream Palestinian political culture and street culture, Palestinian extremists trashed the greenhouses within hours of receiving them. By 2007 Gaza had degenerated into Hamasistan, an Islamist thugocracy. Since then, Hamas has developed Kassam rockets and engineered sophisticated tunnels to smuggle weaponry from Egypt and cross Israel’s borders with killing squads. Every missile fired and every tunnel burrowed represents an investment in targeting Israel rather than building Palestine, hurting Arabs and Jews alike. cont.

[Guest]

I believe that the Israelis are doing what they believe to be the best for Israel and Hamas is doing what it thinks is best for Palestinians.

I don't think that is the case. I think that the Israelis are doing what they believe to be the best for Israel and Hamas is doing what it hopes is the worst for Israel. I think it cares more about destroying Israelis than it does about saving Palestinians.

[Moonbox]

It's not the Palestinian people who are the barrier to peace - it's Hamas.

No offense simple, but this type of thinking is all backwards. Hamas doesn't exist without the Palestinian people and their support. The reason that extremism thrives in certain countries is because the people there do nothing to curb it. In a lot of cases, they actively support and shelter it. This isn't a scenario where you can blame Hamas or the IDF. This is a conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, any way you want to slice it.

[Keepitsimple]

No offense simple, but this type of thinking is all backwards. Hamas doesn't exist without the Palestinian people and their support. The reason that extremism thrives in certain countries is because the people there do nothing to curb it. In a lot of cases, they actively support and shelter it. This isn't a scenario where you can blame Hamas or the IDF. This is a conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, any way you want to slice it.

None taken Moon.......but I respectfully disagree.....given the Hamas Charter as outlined in this topic - what do you think would happen to any opposition movement whose goal was to make peace with Israel? It's like joining the Mafia - once you're in, you can never get out. Do you honestly believe that Hamas would permit a peace-loving opposition party - or more correctly - an anti-Hamas party to exist? Death would come quickly to all who would contemplate such an affront to Allah - of that there is little doubt.

[Big Guy]

I don't think that is the case. I think that the Israelis are doing what they believe to be the best for Israel and Hamas is doing what it hopes is the worst for Israel. I think it cares more about destroying Israelis than it does about saving Palestinians.

If there was one person who was dictating a policy or forcing the Palestinian population to do his/her bidding then I would consider your argument. Hamas is an elected Palestinian government made of nationalist Palestinians. It has served as the only organized entity in the world who seems to care about the condition of those people in Gaza. For some reason it is able to use Qatar (which seems to have money to burn) as the financer for their humanitarian, health and social services for the Gaza Palestinians as well as the building of wonky rockets to fire into Israel.

I believe for that reason it continues to have the support of Palestinians in both Gaza and the West Bank. The Hamas government does appear to be taking the Gaza Palestinians on a road to annihilation but it also appears that there are many Palestinians who are prepared to die rather than continue to live under the current conditions imposed by Israel.

I also feel that to succumb to the current conditions by stopping the rocket attacks and accepting Israeli domination and appropriation and settling all of Palestine they would be surrendering their fight. That is their choice as is the choice of Israel to kill then all. Perhaps that is the inevitable end to this conflict - the final solution - the ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians in Gaza.

The pro-Israelis will call it mass suicide and the pro-Palestinians will call it ethnic cleansing.

So be it.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Big Guy

[Big Guy]

Just an afterthought - Even a political solution at this time will not stop the violence or create a sense of peace in the area. For every Palestinian civilian killed there is family. It may be the child, wife, husband, father, mother, uncle, aunt etc who is killed by the Israeli military there will be family members who have and will swear revenge for what they consider the murder of a family member. For every Palestinian killed, there is created at least one potential suicide bomber prepared to avenge the murder of family at the hands of Israel.

A dedicated suicide bomber is almost impossible to stop as we have seen in other parts of the world. Israel will be kept in a permanent stage of siege having to protect its citizens and barricade itself from attack by individuals bent on killing as many Israelis as possible as the suicide bombers take their own lives and wreak revenge for family killings.

Unfortunately, I believe that "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning." - Winston Churchill

[Guest]

Israel has been described as an apartheid state because they tried to stop those dedicated suicide bombers by building a wall. The most humane way of dealing with an enemy trying to indiscriminately kill their civilians.

As to your point about an elected Hamas: It doesn't in any way negate what I said about their priorities. I would imagine many moderately religious Palestinians regret turning their governance over to a party that is Islamist first, Palestinian second.

[Moonbox]

Do you honestly believe that Hamas would permit a peace-loving opposition party - or more correctly - an anti-Hamas party to exist? Death would come quickly to all who would contemplate such an affront to Allah - of that there is little doubt.

That's the problem with allowing extremists to take control of your government. Once they're in power, they're equally extreme about maintaining it Generally the longer it lasts the more entrenched and worse it gets. This isn't really the whole story, however.

First off, Hamas was elected as ruling party of the PLA by popular support in 2006, despite their charter, suggesting that Palestinians do indeed support them. Second, there's long been widespread opposition to Hamas in Palestine and Gaza, both with Fatah (whom the Americans and Israelis were supporting in the 2007 battle for Gaza) and with other groups. As for anti-Hamas protests, they happen: Immediately after the coup, the Salafis in Gaza started organizing demonstrations against Hamas as the Salafi groups in Egypt supported Sissi. http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/23/why-has-hamas-rejected-egypts-ceasefire-proposal

If Hamas didn't have popular support in Gaza, they wouldn't be able to maintain power. They do have it, so they remain in power. They have enough regional enemies that a popular and more moderate opposition would gain critical support from Egypt (whose new government is very anti-Hamas) and the US as well. Additionally, if a moderate opposition were to reach out to Israel with a message of peace (instead of threats etc), there'd be no hope for Hamas.

Unfortunately, the denial of the state of Israel and its right to exist isn't a crazy extremist notion. It's a deeply ingrained and popular idea with decades of history in Palestine. Until this 'notion' is put to rest among the Palestinian people, there's no hope for a long-term solution. If Hamas toppled next week, there'd be another similar group to take its place. Hamas might be worse than its predecessor Fatah, but Fatah wasn't a particularly fuzzy organization itself, nor is it likely Hamas' replacement will be either.

[Hal 9000]

I find it ironic that Adolf Hitler made no secret of his intentions and actually built his political platform on the basis of ridding the world (or at least Europe) of Jews, and was put into power. And, the whole western world didn't really believe him.

Imagine if we had believed him!

[overthere]

Hamas has been the only organization which has been looking after those Palestinians. It had established a health and social services system (funded probably by Qatar)

Nonsense. The Palestinians have received billions in aid from all over the world for many years. Their great leader of a few decades ago, Yasser Arafat, died with a few of those billions in his private accounts. Of course, he was just safeguarding it there.

Hamas is mainly funded by or rather via Syria, and of course Syria is an Iranian proxy state. Hezbollah is the other ball of hate on Israels border(in Lebanon) and they also are funded by Iran via Syria via Lebanon, with Lebanon largely run by Syria.

[Keepitsimple]

That's the problem with allowing extremists to take control of your government. Once they're in power, they're equally extreme about maintaining it Generally the longer it lasts the more entrenched and worse it gets. This isn't really the whole story, however.

First off, Hamas was elected as ruling party of the PLA by popular support in 2006, despite their charter, suggesting that Palestinians do indeed support them. Second, there's long been widespread opposition to Hamas in Palestine and Gaza, both with Fatah (whom the Americans and Israelis were supporting in the 2007 battle for Gaza) and with other groups. As for anti-Hamas protests, they happen: Immediately after the coup, the Salafis in Gaza started organizing demonstrations against Hamas as the Salafi groups in Egypt supported Sissi. http://www.dailysabah.com/mideast/2014/07/23/why-has-hamas-rejected-egypts-ceasefire-proposal

If Hamas didn't have popular support in Gaza, they wouldn't be able to maintain power. They do have it, so they remain in power. They have enough regional enemies that a popular and more moderate opposition would gain critical support from Egypt (whose new government is very anti-Hamas) and the US as well. Additionally, if a moderate opposition were to reach out to Israel with a message of peace (instead of threats etc), there'd be no hope for Hamas.

Unfortunately, the denial of the state of Israel and its right to exist isn't a crazy extremist notion. It's a deeply ingrained and popular idea with decades of history in Palestine. Until this 'notion' is put to rest among the Palestinian people, there's no hope for a long-term solution. If Hamas toppled next week, there'd be another similar group to take its place. Hamas might be worse than its predecessor Fatah, but Fatah wasn't a particularly fuzzy organization itself, nor is it likely Hamas' replacement will be either.

I agree with you. Doubly unfortunate is that this deeply ingrained notion of Jewish annihilation stretches to elements of most Islamic countries, not the least of which is Iran. There is a strong argument that the Palestinian people have been held hostage all these years by their Islamic sympathizers - using them as proxies for their hatred of Israel and their collective goal of its destruction.