The HAMAS Charter - Murderous Insanity

[jacee]

Every question asked of you has been a good question. Your reluctance to answer is a very strong sign of weakness. You want to get in ring, but you don't wanna be questioned, and you're unable to defend your stance - very weak indeed.

"You your you you you're "

You are awfully focused on personal attacks rather than commenting on the topic.

Got no informed comments?

Oh well.

.

[Hal 9000]

"You your you you you're "

You are awfully focused on personal attacks rather than commenting on the topic.

Got no informed comments?

Oh well.

.

I've tried conversing with you (as most of us have), but you're not able to exchange any amount of coherent thoughts in your posts. It's not an attack, and you're not a victim here, i'm pleading that you return the volley's with something more than the old "I know you are , but what am I" and "I'm rubber and you're glue" type of arguments that you seem to cling to every time you're challenged on an opinion.

[dre]

Its comments like the above that show how lacking in credibility your words are.

In regards to 1; you will point out when you think international law is violated by Israel but never when its violated by Hamas-that makes your selectivity and silence and therefore sincerity as to the topic you discuss meaningless;

In regards to 2; you forget anything that's not convenient to your diatribes on Israel-you don't forget? Oh you forget or better put deliberately omit anything Hamas has done and other Arab terrorists have done and are trying to do, to Israel;

In regards to 3; its ironic but you just proved if anything your need to create subjective opinions, then project them on an imagined group of people, then call that people unintelligent, is not only illogical but lacks intelligence-an intelligent person would not presume as you do that other thoughts are only intelligent if they are the same-in fact an intelligent mind would embrace the challenge of pursuing different views and perspectives-the very definition of intelligence is flexability in perceiving possibile variations of the same concept or any other concept-a mind that closes itself down to any opinion but its own isn't intelligent-its lazy, narcissistic, rigid, inflexible and if anything frightened-that fear limits and inhibits awareness-in some that lack of awareness is caused by a genetic condition, a brain injury, a disease-in your case I believe its generated by deliberate and pre-meditated hatred of Jews and the concept that a Jew would dare think he or she could live in their own state.

In regards to 4, and your point? As in 1, when international law is convenient to your argument you seem to quote it. When it comes to Hamas, the PFLP, Force 17, Tanzim, Fatah hawks, Fatah Eagles, Islamic Jihad. Palestinian Jihad, the Muslim Brotherhood, Isis, Hezbollah, Al Quaeda, Syria, Sudan, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Tunisia, not a peep as to the international laws being broken in the name of Allah. Not a peep as to how Hamas has violated international law in each and every action it has engaged in. Not a peep in how it has violated international law using hospitals, ambulances, UNWRA buildings, schools, residences, Mosques, as war sites. Not a peep on how it has deliberately led its people directly into the line of fire and forced its people to stay in buildings to die. Not a peep.

This is why "Hudson Jones" your infrequent interventions on this board that only talk of international law, when its convienient for your need to slag israel lacks any credibility.

You will not come on this board and condemn what Hamas does. You won't admit it has a charter that calls for the genocide of jews world wide. You won't admit it deliberately kills its citizens as propaganda props to gain media sympathy. You won't admit it is a Muslim extremist religious group calling for the extermination of Jews not just Israelis world wide. you won't admit its very charter tells its people to die.

You wan to quote international law? You who won't dare quote it when it comes to Hamas but only with Israel.

Right.

Typical bleating and wretching. This entire post was nothing but a diatribe against the author of the quote. Completely devoid of any substance what-so-ever.

[jacee]

I've tried conversing with you (as most of us have), but you're not able to exchange any amount of coherent thoughts in your posts. It's not an attack, and you're not a victim here, i'm pleading that you return the volley's with something more than the old "I know you are , but what am I" and "I'm rubber and you're glue" type of arguments that you seem to cling to every time you're challenged on an opinion.

You haven't said anything worth responding to.

.

[Rue]

It is a direct response to a diatribe by "Hudson Jones" just as this is a direct response to you and him and his latest response which again shows his lack of credibility and yours. The two of you will not acknowledge Hamas violates international law. In Hudson Jones case he will only raise international law violations if it provides him an excuse to engage in diatribes against Israel. You as well.

Unlike the two of you I respond directly to what you say and do not hide behind authors or name calling.

Now you want to select only what Israel does. I call bullshit. I also will list just some of the Hamas international law violations which neither of you have the integrity to acknowledge and Hudson Jones tries to dismiss as minor.

Here are 19 international law violations repeatedly engaged in by Hamas:

1. The rocket attacks directed at Israel‘s civilian population that Hudson Joens and you try pose as minor inconveniences deliberately violates the international law doctrine of the basic principles of distinction-Additional Protocol I, arts. 48, 51(2), 52(1).)

Hamas openly states it will not distinguish between military and civilian objects when it attacks. It in fact it brags and states its proud that it targets population centres and civilians and states in its charter it is an acceptable tactic and religious doctrine to kill Jews world-wide-to engage in a genocide of Jews and the destruction of Israel being the first step in this genocide

The direct attacks against Israel's civilian population constitutes a war crime under the Rome Statute, art. 8(2)( (i)).

2. Hamas' tactic of deliberately engaging in attacks from mosques, schools, UN Buildings, residences, hospitals and other protected From sites is a direct violation of The Law of Armed Conflict which not only prohibits attacking Israeli civilians as Hamas openly admits it does but also violates these laws by not just failing distinguish its combatant forces from its own civilians, but delibeately using those civilians as shields and placing them in harms way. It violates these laws by using base operations in or near civilian structures violating Article 51(7) of Additional Protocol I which states: " '―The presence or movements of the civilian population or individual civilians shall not be used to render certain points or areas immune from military operations, in particular attempts to shield military objectives from attacks or shield, favour or impede military operations."

3. It deliberately misuses hospitals to store ammunition and house its terrorist and combat operation centres and uses ambulance to transport its fighters it is violating the Law of Armed Conflict: Under Article 23(f) of the 1907 Regulations annexed to the Hague Convention IV Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land.

Article 44 of the First Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field (1949) also provides that:" ―… the emblem of the Red Cross (Red Crescent) on a white ground …may not be employed, either in time of peace or in time of war, except to indicate or to protect the medical units and establishments…"

5. Hamas deliberately booby-traps civilian areas including homes, roads, buildings, market places which is a blatant violation of internatioanl law and has led to the death of hundreds of Palestinians Hamas then blames on Israel, after Palestinians set off hair trigger wire bombs, step on mines or trigger weight bombs. Hamas deliberately inserts bombs in homes that will explode and kill civilians from the vibration of traffic or even footsteps or bombs in other buildings. It then turns around and claims Israel deliebrately targeted the people who then die from these bombs/

6. Hamas poses as civilians- it won't wear a uniform or engage in war away from civilians a direct violation of international law.

7. Hamas deliberately uses child combatants and exploits children in direct violation of international law. It uses children to transport explosives, weapons, go out on the street and serve as decoys -it runs paramilitary training for children and has them dig tunnels blatantly violating Additional Protocol I, which states the parties to a conflict should take "all feasible measures" to ensure that children "do not take a direct part in hostilities and, in particular, they shall refrain from recruiting them into their armed forces." (Additional Protocol I, art. 77(2))

8. Hamas repeatedly and with planned deliberation Interferes with Humanitarian Relief Efforts including shooting rockets at trucks being loaded with food to be sent to Gaza from Israel, killing Palestinians fleeing to Israel to get medical aid, killing Palestinians who accept medical aid in Israel and return. Hamas shoots rockets at the Kerem Shalom crossing where humanitarian goods are brought into Gaza in direct violation of the Law of Armed Conflict, which requires parties to allow the entry of humanitarian supplies and to guarantee their safety. Article 59 of the Fourth Geneva Convention requires parties in an armed conflict to "permit the free passage of [humanitarian] consignments and shall guarantee their protection."

It violates Article 60 of the same Convention as well.

9.Hamas engages in kidnappings and hostage-taking in direct contradiction of The Fourth Geneva Conventions, article 34, which states, "The taking of hostages is prohibited." Hamas is not engaged in war following the Geneva convention. Therefore it does not take prisoners of war. By refusing to follow the Geneva Convention necessarily Hamas' hostage-taking comes under the definition on the International Convention Against the Taking of Hostages whioch states" "Any person who seizes or detains and threatens to kill, to injure or to continue to detain another person (hereinafter referred to as the "hostage") in order to compel a third party, namely, a State, an international intergovernmental organization, a natural or juridical person, or a group of persons, to do or abstain from doing any act as an explicit or implicit condition for the release of the hostage commits the offence of taking of hostages ("hostage-taking") within the meaning of this Convention."

10. Hamas has sent in its operatives through tunnels into Israel or across the border after cutting holes in fences wearing IDF uniformsin direct violation of the Additional Protocol I which prohibits the use of enemy flags, military emblems, insignia or uniforms “while engaging in attacks or in order to shield, favour, protect or impede military operations”.

Under the Statute of the International Criminal Court, “making improper use … of the flag or of the military insignia and uniform of the enemy” constitutes a war crime in international armed conflicts when it results in death or serious personal injury."

11. Hamas deliberately and with pre-meditation engages in violence intended to incite fear and terror among the Palestinian and Israeli civilian population in direct contravention of Rule 2 of ICRC's Customary IHL is "Acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population are prohibited." IArticle 51(2) of Additional Protocol I prohibits “acts or threats of violence the primary purpose of which is to spread terror among the civilian population”.

Hamas rockets aimed at civilians, airplanes, airports, residences, homes, its use of civilians as shields and props, its media broadcasts, its killing of Palestinians it deems opponents of its veiws, its use of rubber necklaces (placing tires around the neck of its opponents and lighting them on fire), its continious accusation of all Jews of the world, as targets to be killed is intended to provoke and incite terror among Israelis and Palestinians.

Its tactics not only are designed to show the world it considers the life of any non Muslim meaningless, but it also shows and vividly expresses its belief that the life of any Muslim who does not agree with its interpretation of Islam is also equally as meaningless. Its Charter is blatant evidence of its intent in this regard. Its all spelled out.

12. Hamas' decision to targeting civilian, civilian objects, such as buses, bus stations, highways, hospitals, roads, airports or nuclear power plants violates Rule 7 of the Customary IHL says "Attacks must not be directed against civilian objects," and Articles 48 and 52(2) of Additional Protocol I.

13. Hamas engages in Indiscriminate attacks of civilians and civilian objects, contraru to Rule 11 of the ICRC CIHL which states that "Indiscriminate attacks are prohibited."

Those rockets Hudson Jones and Dre pretend are meaningless, its mortar attacks are by their very nature real and manifest indiscriminate attacks inv iolation of Rule 71, "The use of weapons which are by nature indiscriminate is prohibited."

14.Hudson Jones and Dre and Jacee and all the other apologists for Hamas on this board who only raise international law to attack Israel often state Israel responds without proportionality. That is the famous accusation of all Hamas apologists. Interestingly its used to argue Israel should sit on its ass and do nothing. Just look at Dre, Jacee and Hudson Jones on this board. They will raise a shrill cry when Israel responds and say its not proportionate but never explain what response would be considered proprotionate. Why? Because first of all, they do not for one second belief Israeli should exist and therefore defend itself. Secondly their argument is a crock of shit because it then also applies to Hamas.

Proportionality in attack - ICRC's Rule 14 states "Launching an attack which may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated, is prohibited."

Yes they use that against Israel BUT NEVER will they also state that against Hamas as well which is at the pith and substance of their lack of credibility. They will not use the same standard of international law for Hamas as they do Israel.

The fact is the Hamas Rocket attacks against civilians in Israel have zero military advantage, so by definition they are disproportionate to their military advantage. They serve no purpose other than to try disrupt the day to day lives of Israelis. Each time they are shot, 3/4's of Israel's population must stop their work and lives and run to shelters.

In the world of Jace, Hudson Jones, Dre et al, that is a minor inconvenience that should be ignored.

If it were any other country in this world, that country would have carpet bombed Gaza and permanently demilitarized it. Does anyone think Russia, China, Europe, the US, Canada would sit by as rockets flew in?

Canada invoked a War Measurs Act and locked the country down suspending its laws and allowing a state of siege suspending any legal and constitutional rights in regards to the FLQ crisis something Israel has lived with over and over for 70 years and these apologists for Hamas want to talk about proportional response?

Really. Is the destruction going on in Syria, Iraq, Sudan, Nigeria by Muslim extremists "proportional"?

When Morsi took over Egypt and incited attacks on Coptic Christians was ot "proportional'?

When Hamas went through the streets of Gaza killing its civilians suspected of being Israeli or Fatah supporters was that proportional?

Pursuant to Rule 18: "Each party to the conflict must do everything feasible to assess whether the attack may be expected to cause incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians, damage to civilian objects, or a combination thereof, which would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

The IDF loses lives, its soldiers die, because they won't call for air cover to protect civilians from death when they are ambushed.

The IDF has given repeated warnings as to what buildings it will take out. What does Hamas do? Ask its civilians. They report that Hamas is ordering them back into buildings to be bombed. It deliberately shoots rockets from schools then zips away in a motor cycle leaving the residents behind to die beause they can't get out fast enough.

Hamas lied to its civilians and told them to go to a market area they claimed was under a truce knowing it was not deliberately getting those people killed by placing them in the line of fire.

15. Under Advance Warning - Rule 20 of the ICRC CIHL states "Each party to the conflict must give effective advance warning of attacks which may affect the civilian population, unless circumstances do not permit."

Israel does, Hamas does not. Israel's early warnings are documented and public domain. Hamas? Hamas deliberately shoot during truces. They deliebrately lie, say they will not shoot, then shoot. Hamas give advance warning to civilians? Right. Its entire operation is based on sneak attack.

16.Rule 22 of the ICRC Customary IHL states "The parties to the conflict must take all feasible precautions to protect the civilian population and civilian objects under their control against the effects of attacks."

Hamas deliebrately refuses to protect civilians in Gaza by building bomb shelters. Instead they use their hospitals, schools, mosques and homes to shoot rockets and they build tunnels with their children.

Their Charter states it is a great thing to kill its people to achieve victory against Israel and people should die.

17. Rule 28 states "Medical units exclusively assigned to medical purposes must be respected and protected in all circumstances."

Hamas in fact openly brags that it shoots mortars at Israeli field hospitals that were set up for Gazans, near the Erez crossing.

18. Hamas has threatened journalists, repeatedly in violation of Rule 34 which states that "Civilian journalists engaged in professional missions in areas of armed conflict must be respected and protected as long as they are not taking a direct part in hostilities."

19. Hamas mistreating the dead. Under Rule 113 it states: "Each party to the conflict must take all possible measures to prevent the dead from being despoiled. Mutilation of dead bodies is prohibited."

Hamas openly mutilates any IDF soldiers and any Palestinians it kills. It has grown men pulling the organs out of bodies such as the liver, heart, genital and shaking them around in the air screaming death to infidels.

FOR HUDSON JONES OR DRE OR JACEE OR ANYONE ELSE TO COME ON THIS BOARD AND REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE HAMAS CHARTER AND ITS REPEATED VIOLATION OF INTERNATINAL LAW SHOWS THEIR LACK OF CREDIBILITY.

I hide behind no author Dre. Here I am.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Rue

[dre]

FOR HUDSON JONES OR DRE OR JACEE OR ANYONE ELSE TO COME ON THIS BOARD AND REFUSE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE HAMAS CHARTER AND ITS REPEATED VIOLATION OF INTERNATINAL LAW SHOWS THEIR LACK OF CREDIBILITY.

More bleating and wretching.

There ZERO question in my mind that Hamas violates internation law, and I havent ever made a single statement to the contrary. The leadership on both sides of Conflict: Dirtfarm are serial offenders, and groups like Hamas and Likud both profit politically from the misery of their own people.

Its unfortunate but these are the scumbags that two populations consumed by their hatred of each other, and their idiotic religious dogma and fake gods, have put in charge. And its not going to change any time soon... its not a very nice political climate for moderate voices over there.

This latest round of violence is a political boon for hardliners on both sides, and dont think for a second that fact is lost on Hamas or Likud.

[Keepitsimple]

More bleating and wretching.

There ZERO question in my mind that Hamas violates internation law, and I havent ever made a single statement to the contrary. The leadership on both sides of Conflict: Dirtfarm are serial offenders, and groups like Hamas and Likud both profit politically from the misery of their own people.

Its unfortunate but these are the scumbags that two populations consumed by their hatred of each other, and their idiotic religious dogma and fake gods, have put in charge. And its not going to change any time soon... its not a very nice political climate for moderate voices over there.

This latest round of violence is a political boon for hardliners on both sides, and dont think for a second that fact is lost on Hamas or Likud.

Sorry Dre - not even close.....and Rue didn't have to go all the way back to 1948 to make his case - Hamas is doing all this today. One side (Hamas) wants the other dead. Simple as that. Stop the rockets - accept Israel's right to exist - and there will be a fast path to peace. I can foresee that Palestine would have no greater friend than Israel in a time of peace. Once the blinders of middle-east "proxy-hate" are removed from the Palestinian psyche, we can start to move forward.

[marcus]

Stop the rockets - accept Israel's right to exist - and there will be a fast path to peace. I can foresee that Palestine would have no greater friend than Israel in a time of peace. Once the blinders of middle-east "proxy-hate" are removed from the Palestinian psyche, we can start to move forward.

Two HUGE problems with the narrative you keep trying to shove down people's throats:

#1 - It has been shown, that in the past 3 attacks on Gaza, Hamas has been provoked into shooting rockets. Each time, Hamas has observed ceasefires and it was Israel who broke them and attacked Hamas members. Provoking them into a response and then the PR machine and their mouthpieces such as Keepitsimple start their dishonest campaign with the shrugs and the familiar comment:"they started it!"

#2 - This is before Hamas became a player: In 1993, PLO/Arafat accepted Israel as a State and stopped all attacks. How did Israel respond to that? No Palestinian state, more illegal Jewish settlements and more land theft. This is moving forward for you?

Edited August 16, 2014 by marcus

[marcus]

Although I have been critical of Israel for many years (basically for as long as I have made the effort to inform myself on the subject), increased familiarity with Zionists has bred contempt.

In Zionists, I have witnessed flagrant dishonesty, abusive censorship, verbal displays of sadistic inhumanity and an absolutely infantile narcissism that drives Israel's double standards, over the top slaughter, and conscienceless bloody-mindedness.

Obviously I don't hate all Israelis; not only is the idea of blanket-hatred preposterously stupid, but I am aware of decent Israelis who vociferously oppose their psychotic government. That being said, I do detest Israel.

Before one speaks to people, one can speculate that they may have been grossly misinformed, or oppressively manipulated, but once one sees pure, unadulterated malice, in case after case after case, every potential mitigating factor that one has considered, is exposed as irresponsibly optimistic.

There are some truly decent Israeli people.

However, there is far more bad than good in Israel.

The only suffering Zionists have caused me is to trample my right to free speech, with wildly abusive censorship, yet that abuse has been so shamelessly dishonest and nakedly malicious that it has been enough to move me from detesting Israel's aggression, to truly detesting Israel.

So how could I possibly fault a single Palestinian for any part of the animosity that any one of them holds?

I can't begin to comprehend the magnitude of the emotional toll that Israel's oppression takes on Palestinians.

What I do understand well, is that Palestinians are being FORCED by Israel, to hate Israel, and then being slandered and slaughtered for a perfectly justifiable hatred of Israel.

[jbg]

Sorry Dre - not even close.....and Rue didn't have to go all the way back to 1948 to make his case - Hamas is doing all this today. One side (Hamas) wants the other dead. Simple as that. Stop the rockets - accept Israel's right to exist - and there will be a fast path to peace. I can foresee that Palestine would have no greater friend than Israel in a time of peace. Once the blinders of middle-east "proxy-hate" are removed from the Palestinian psyche, we can start to move forward.

Sort of like the quasi-lovefest between the U.S. and Canada?

Although I have been critical of Israel for many years (basically for as long as I have made the effort to inform myself on the subject), increased familiarity with Zionists has bred contempt.

In Zionists, I have witnessed flagrant dishonesty, abusive censorship, verbal displays of sadistic inhumanity and an absolutely infantile narcissism that drives Israel's double standards, over the top slaughter, and conscienceless bloody-mindedness.

I guess in contrast to the three-part harmony that exists between Hamas and Fatah, ISIS and the Shi'ites, ISIS and Christians, ISIS and Yatzidis, Boko Haram v. Christian schoolgirls, Russia and Ukraine, Shabab and Kenyan mall shoppers? Are you saying those groups are honest if extremely violent? Or somehow praiseworthy?

Obviously I don't hate all Israelis;

Not so obviously unless you exclude traitors.

not only is the idea of blanket-hatred preposterously stupid, but I am aware of decent Israelis who vociferously oppose their psychotic government. That being said, I do detest Israel.

They have a psychotic will to exist as a Jewish state. Are you saying that's psychotic or unrealistic?

Before one speaks to people, one can speculate that they may have been grossly misinformed, or oppressively manipulated, but once one sees pure, unadulterated malice, in case after case after case, every potential mitigating factor that one has considered, is exposed as irresponsibly optimistic.

Are you saying atrocities by Hamas, Boko Haram, ISIS and Shabab don't exist?

There are some truly decent Israeli people.

I am sure at some level you're a decent person. Maybe good for a few sets of tennis.

However, there is far more bad than good in Israel.

Hi-tech? Farming?

The only suffering Zionists have caused me is to trample my right to free speech, with wildly abusive censorship, yet that abuse has been so shamelessly dishonest and nakedly malicious that it has been enough to move me from detesting Israel's aggression, to truly detesting Israel.

Have I censored you?

So how could I possibly fault a single Palestinian for any part of the animosity that any one of them holds?

I can't begin to comprehend the magnitude of the emotional toll that Israel's oppression takes on Palestinians.

How about blaming their curriculum?

What I do understand well, is that Palestinians are being FORCED by Israel, to hate Israel, and then being slandered and slaughtered for a perfectly justifiable hatred of Israel.

Their curriculum, where they are taught that Jews are "dogs, pigs and monkeys" doesn't play a role?

[marcus]

Not so obviously unless you exclude traitors.

The open-minded, the strong-minded and those who are able to feel empathy are not traitors. They are called traitors or anti-semites by people who feel threatened by them. Because they threaten the false narrative that they have forced on people for so many decades.

I sometimes wonder what percentage of Germans were against the acts of their government. I'm assuming most didn't even know what their government was doing, mostly due to the lack of information. But in this day and age, when we see and know what is happening, there is no excuse. The lack of humanity in Zionism is a dark look at what humans are capable of doing - Which is to do whatever possible to try to justify a system that violates the human rights of another group of people.

One day we will look back at Zionism and Israel the same way we look back at Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

[bush_cheney2004]

....One day we will look back at Zionism and Israel the same way we look back at Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

No...I think not...more like the treatment of "aboriginals" in North America, including reserve systems and unsettled land claims that exist to this day.

[Keepitsimple]

The open-minded, the strong-minded and those who are able to feel empathy are not traitors. They are called traitors or anti-semites by people who feel threatened by them. Because they threaten the false narrative that they have forced on people for so many decades.

The lack of humanity in Zionism is a dark look at what humans are capable of doing - Which is to do whatever possible to try to justify a system that violates the human rights of another group of people.

One day we will look back at Zionism and Israel the same way we look back at Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

Here's a good look at some of the Islamist "humanity"........one day we will look back at Islamist extremism the same way we look back at Apartheid South Africa and Nazi Germany.

It is difficult to understand how someone can decapitate a child, listening to the tiny person screaming as the head is ripped from the body. It is difficult to understand how someone can kidnap hundreds of women, chain them together and then give them to an army to be used as sex toys. It is difficult to understand how someone can bury mothers and their children alive in a pit and leave them to die.

The Islamists of ISIS have done and are doing all of this. But should we be surprised?

Link: http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/15/we-must-open-our-eyes

Edited August 18, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[Rue]

Marcus made the following statements:

1- the idea of blanket-hatred preposterously stupid,

2-That being said, I do detest Israel.

3-In Zionists, I have witnessed flagrant dishonesty, abusive censorship, verbal displays of sadistic inhumanity and an absolutely infantile narcissism that drives Israel's double standards, over the top slaughter, and conscienceless bloody-mindedness.

4-there is far more bad than good in Israel.

Clearly 2-4 contradict 1 and clearly Marcus manifests what he has come on this board to do, make sweeping negative generalizations about Israelis, Zionists, and challenge the right of Israel to exist as a state.

He uses any thread about Hamas or Israel or the Middle East to do so.

His comments do not address Hamas' charter or tactics. Like the other apologists for Hamas on this board, he tries to avoid discussing Hamas by engaging in diatribes against Israel.

Also tell tale is this comment he made:

"The only suffering Zionists have caused me is to trample my right to free speech, with wildly abusive censorship, yet that abuse has been so shamelessly dishonest and nakedly malicious that it has been enough to move me from detesting Israel's aggression, to truly detesting Israel."

The statement makes zero sense. If he was being prevented freedom of speech he would not be able to engage int he diatribes he does. More to the point he does not live in Israel or Palestine.

His comments go beyond nonsensical in that each day there is open freedom of speech in Israel criticizing its government. There are even elected members of the Knesset calling on Israel to be disolved.

Arab israelis have over 125 Human Rights organizations representing them in Israel for free. They have their own radio stations and newspapers.

The reference he used namely "Zionists have caused me" shows he does not differentiate his own personal feelings from discussing Israel. He takes it as a personal attack which renders his entire response as is the case with his other responses, emotional name calling with no logical cohesion.

He presents no discussion as to Israeli state policies, just expressions of emotional hatred towards Zionists, and the state of Israel for existing.

Its as nonsensical as his claiming he's witnessed flagrant dishonesty in Zionists and this therefore justifies him making the sweeping negative stereotypes as to Zionists after claiming it would make no sense to.

This is why I challenge his words. He's just another who comes on the board to name call. In responding to him all one can do is point out he is hateful in his comments and expresses an intent to be hateful. Not much more need be said.

I certainly would not respond to him directly. This is someone who has never met an Israeli or a Palestinian posing as if he knows both.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Rue

[GostHacked]

Lets keep things in perspective Jacee. "Massive amounts of Natural Resources".....what's that - gold, silver? Maybe copper or diamonds? OK, how about iron or tin? How are these occupiers enriching themselves? With rocks and gravel - raw construction material - that's how. Oh, and they pay Palestinians to work at the quarries and a substantial royalty to the Palestinian government. Regardless, they've cut back on quarry activity in the past few years. Nasty plunderers those Israelis.

The resources in this conflict seem to be more basic than that. Settlements need a great deal of infrastructure to survive and thrive. Those same conditions are not given to the Palestinians living there, and possibly displaced by the settlements. Water is a resource that would be part of the battle here. Takes a lot of water to turn a desert into a place that can grow food and be adequate for modern settlements.

[jacee]

One side (Hamas) wants the other dead. Simple as that. Stop the rockets - accept Israel's right to exist -

Israel's right to exist ... where?

Gaza? The West Bank?

"from the sea to the river" ?

What does Israel want to do with the millions of Arab there?

Kill them?

Displace them ... again?

They sure won't be allowed to vote!

Oh, and ... Israel isn't even a 'state' unless it defines its borders. That's the basic requirement for a state.

Edited August 18, 2014 by jacee

[Rue]

Israel's right to exist ... where?

Gaza? The West Bank?

"from the sea to the river" ?

What does Israel want to do with the millions of Arab there?

Kill them?

Displace them ... again?

They sure won't be allowed to vote!

Oh, and ... Israel isn't even a 'state' unless it defines its borders. That's the basic requirement for a state.

Its bad enough you do not have the integrity to acknowledge the Hamas Charter or what it stands for and therefore does to its people and Israel's.

Now you want to pretend Hamas does not know where Israel does not exist and Israel does not exist because you say it has no borders.

Its past Alice in Wonderland. At this point its just petulance.

Now you don't just pretend Hamas is not a terrorist group but Israel does not exist.

Brilliant.

Israel's border with Egypt has been the international border demarcated in 1906 between Britain and the Ottoman Empire.

In fact the borders with Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were drawn up by the United Kingdom and France in anticipation of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the First World War and the carve up of the Ottoman Empire between them.

They are referred to as the 1923 Paulet-Newcombe Agreement borders, being those of Mandate Palestine, which were settled in 1923.

Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized and confirmed as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

It is in fact the borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories that remain in dispute.

Israel's borders with the West Bank and Gaza Strip are currently the Green Line, except in East Jerusalem, and the ceasefire line with Syria runs along the UN-monitored boundary between the Golan Heights and Syrian controlled territory.

For Jaceee to pretend the above is not a fact and that Israel does not exist because the above does not in fact exist, is past assinine. Its as I say petulant.

She can hold her breath until she turns blue but they exist.

Edited August 18, 2014 by Rue

[jacee]

Its bad enough you do not have the integrity to acknowledge the Hamas Charter or what it stands for and therefore does to its people and Israel's.

Now you want to pretend Hamas does not know where Israel does not exist and Israel does not exist because you say it has no borders.

Its past Alice in Wonderland. At this point its just petulance.

Now you don't just pretend Hamas is not a terrorist group but Israel does not exist.

Brilliant.

Israel's border with Egypt has been the international border demarcated in 1906 between Britain and the Ottoman Empire.

In fact the borders with Lebanon, Syria and Jordan were drawn up by the United Kingdom and France in anticipation of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire in the First World War and the carve up of the Ottoman Empire between them.

They are referred to as the 1923 Paulet-Newcombe Agreement borders, being those of Mandate Palestine, which were settled in 1923.

Israel's borders with Egypt and Jordan have now been formally recognized and confirmed as part of the peace treaties with those countries, and with Lebanon as part of the 1949 Armistice Agreements.

It is in fact the borders with Syria and the Palestinian territories that remain in dispute.

Precisely.

A 'state' has defined borders, not "in dispute".

Israel is not yet defined.

[jbg]

Precisely.

A 'state' has defined borders, not "in dispute".

Israel is not yet defined.

Because you and others dispute Israel's existence as a Jewish state? Does the fact that Hans Island remains disputed (I think) means that Canada and Denmark do not have "defined borders" or are not "states"?

Edited August 19, 2014 by jbg

[marcus]

The only dispute is in Israel's eyes. The borders are defined by international law. Borders that both Canada and U.S. accept.

[Hal 9000]

For Jaceee to pretend the above is not a fact and that Israel does not exist because the above does not in fact exist, is past assinine. Its as I say petulant.

She can hold her breath until she turns blue but they exist.

I sometimes have to remind myself that I might be conversing with a 10 year old or somebody who is actually retarded.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Hal 9000

[jacee]

I sometimes have to remind myself that I might be conversing with a 10 year old or somebody who is actually retarded.

Oh I think rue is older than 10.

And that's a report ... personal attack.

Whassamatter? Got nothing to add to the topic

so you stoop to personal attacks?

Edited August 19, 2014 by jacee

[On Guard for Thee]

No...I think not...more like the treatment of "aboriginals" in North America, including reserve systems and unsettled land claims that exist to this day.

Do I detect another cheap shot at Canada. Tsk Tsk. Oh well, as always ignore, back to the conversation.

[jacee]

Because you and others dispute Israel's existence as a Jewish state?

Bingo!

The 'race' card has been played!

I don't care what kind of state Israel calls itself, but if Israel wants to call itself a state at all, it better

accept its legal borders

and stay within them!

.

[Rue]

Jacee your continued denial of Israel's borders let alone that it exists speaks for itself.

Hal it is what it is.

Like yah. Like Israel like does not exist man cuz I say so man. Like yah.