The HAMAS Charter - Murderous Insanity

[Argus]

The materials walked away, yes.

They were needed.

.

Really? Don't you think they were needed to grow food? I mean, given how we're told the Israelis are trying to starve the Palestinians to death and all...

Edited August 11, 2014 by Argus

[jacee]

No - once again I'd ask you to read the Hamas Charter. They have sworn to NOT make peace and that any gestures - ceasfires, truces, negotiations are only to be used as ploys towards their greater goal - the elimination of Israel as a State and the elimination/murder of all Jews. That is the real issue.

Since you remain silent on the Hamas Charter, one can only assume you either support it - or condone it. Either way, you simply ignore the fact that Hamas has stated that there can never be peace with Israel, never be recognition for the State of Israel - and there will be no stopping until every Jew is either banished from the Caliphate - or killed.

That is what you are condoning.

As I said, there are disgusting elements of both sides.

Wallowing at that level accomplishes nothing.

.

[jacee]

... understand they will never settle fr anything other than a Muslim Calpihate in Jordan, Israel and the West Bank.

...

So is it a surprise to me Jacee, Dre, Hudson Jones, Monty, can not and will not admit what Hamas stands for, acknowledge its Charter, acknowledge it would prefer to kill and starve its own people rather than have them live with Jews?

...

"live with Jews" ... where? Gaza?

You mean when Israel takes over the West Bank and Gaza ?

"Israel ... from the river to the sea"?

But Israelis don't want the Arabs there.

They want a Jewish majority.

How will Israel get rid of the majority of Arabs?

.

[jacee]

Really? Don't you think they were needed to grow food? I mean, given how we're told the Israelis are trying to starve the Palestinians to death and all...

It's a war zone.

Growing anything is impossible.

.

[Keepitsimple]

"live with Jews" ... where? Gaza?

You mean when Israel takes over the West Bank and Gaza ?

"Israel ... from the river to the sea"?

But Israelis don't want the Arabs there.

They want a Jewish majority.

How will Israel get rid of the majority of Arabs?

.

If it wasn't so sad, it would be humerous in how you simply make things up out of thin air......how do you explain the Population of Israel being 20% Arab - almost exclusively of Palestinian heritage? How about the fact that Israel forcibly removed all Jews from Gaza in 2005 in exchange for a promise of peace? And now Hamas would kill any Jew who set foot in Gaza. And the rockets continue.

How anyone can condone the Hamas Charter to exterminate all Jews is nothing short of barbaric and racist.

[Hal 9000]

Jacee has to be a Palestinian plant - there's no other explanation.

[jacee]

......how do you explain the Population of Israel being 20% Arab - almost exclusively of Palestinian heritage?

I referred to "a majority of Arabs"?

I see no difference between these statements:

http://www.lrb.co.uk/blog/2012/12/16/the-editors/from-the-sea-to-the-river-from-the-river-to-the-sea/

Palestine, from the Jordan to the Sea, belongs to us! declared Khaled Meshal last week at the huge victory rally in Gaza.

Eretz Israel, from the sea to the Jordan, belongs to us! declare right-wing Israelis on every occasion.

The fact is, though, that if Israel did occupy/take over "Eretz Israel" - which includes Gaza and the West Bank, the majority of the people would be Arab.

What would Israel do to reduce the number of Arabs to the 'acceptable'' 20% level currently maintained in Israel?

Kill them?

Drive them out of their homelands like before?

.

Edited August 11, 2014 by jacee

[Hudson Jones]

If you had any doubt about Netanyahu's intentions and by extension the intentions of hardcore Zionism to conquer and annex and swallow the entirety of Palestine, or if you had any doubt with what utter contempt and condescending hubris he looks at Obama's entire administration, or if you had any doubt who is the singular beneficiary of the murderous activities of the mercenary army of ISIS, read this article.

Netanyahu finally speaks his mind

At his Friday press conference, the prime minister ruled out full Palestinian sovereignty, derided the US approach to Israeli security, and set out his Middle East overview with unprecedented candor. His remarks were not widely reported; they should be

[Hal 9000]

If you had any doubt about Netanyahu's intentions and by extension the intentions of hardcore Zionism to conquer and annex and swallow the entirety of Palestine, or if you had any doubt with what utter contempt and condescending hubris he looks at Obama's entire administration, or if you had any doubt who is the singular beneficiary of the murderous activities of the mercenary army of ISIS, read this article.

Netanyahu finally speaks his mind

At his Friday press conference, the prime minister ruled out full Palestinian sovereignty, derided the US approach to Israeli security, and set out his Middle East overview with unprecedented candor. His remarks were not widely reported; they should be

Whaddya mean, finally? There is nothing new here, all of it is common knowledge. I don't know what smoking gun you think you found, but he believes that Israel's security depends on protecting (or controlling) certain areas - that's not news. He says there are 1200 tunnels built between Gaza and Egypt, and doesn't want to open Israel up to that. He knows well enough that if you give Hamas and inch, they'll take a mile. He is also right about Kerry being naive to the situation.

What do you think Hamas would do with full sovereignty? Live happily ever after?

[Keepitsimple]

The fact is, though, that if Israel did occupy/take over "Eretz Israel" - which includes Gaza and the West Bank, the majority of the people would be Arab.

What would Israel do to reduce the number of Arabs to the 'acceptable'' 20% level currently maintained in Israel?

Kill them?

Drive them out of their homelands like before?

.

This is what I mean by you making stuff up. You've alluded to a minority in a democratic Israel - the government of which has never supported such a view. Hamas, on the other hand is the elected government of Gaza and its people - on whose behalf they have sworn to eliminate the State of Israel and kill all Jews. In reality, Israel has gone the other way - they gave up the entire Sinai to Egypt in exchange for peace. They withdrew from Gaza, forcibly removed all Jewish settlers - and as a measure of good faith, dismantled some settlements in the West Bank - all in exchange for peace. All they got for their trouble was suicide bombers and rockets from Hamas.

I agree with HAL - you've got to be a Palestinian plant!

Edited August 12, 2014 by Keepitsimple

[bush_cheney2004]

If you had any doubt about Netanyahu's intentions and by extension the intentions of hardcore Zionism to conquer and annex and swallow the entirety of Palestine, or if you had any doubt with what utter contempt and condescending hubris he looks at Obama's entire administration

As well he should, because no Israeli PM is required to kiss any president's ass when faced with existential threats.

Zionism > Terrorism

Edited August 12, 2014 by bush_cheney2004

[jacee]

This is what I mean by you making stuff up. You've alluded to a minority in a democratic Israel ...

Yes ... When Israel does take over the West Bank and Gaza ... how will they get rid of all the Arabs there?

Or will they just not let them vote?

[dre]

Whaddya mean, finally? There is nothing new here, all of it is common knowledge. I don't know what smoking gun you think you found, but he believes that Israel's security depends on protecting (or controlling) certain areas - that's not news. He says there are 1200 tunnels built between Gaza and Egypt, and doesn't want to open Israel up to that. He knows well enough that if you give Hamas and inch, they'll take a mile. He is also right about Kerry being naive to the situation.

What do you think Hamas would do with full sovereignty? Live happily ever after?

I definately dont think that Hamas can play a prominent part in any two state solution. But I think the Abbas government in the west bank might be another story.

In any case, what he made clear is exactly what I have been telling people here, and exactly whats in the Likud constitution... Israel as currently governed has absolutely no intention of allowing a palestinian no matter what the palestinians do. Even if palestinians completely stopped violence, and devoted their entire GDP to dredle and yamuka production to give as gifts to Israeli children... They WOULDNT GET ANYWHERE.

[dre]

Yes ... When Israel does take over the West Bank and Gaza ... how will they get rid of all the Arabs there?

Or will they just not let them vote?

They dont need to get rid of the arabs there. They will just push them into smaller and smaller chunks of useless land, and build settlements around the land and resources they find most useful. There certainly IS a considerable demographic in Israel that would like to see them ethnically cleansed from the region but the Israeli government is probably too careful in terms of turning the country into an international pariah.

Edited August 12, 2014 by dre

[Hal 9000]

I definately dont think that Hamas can play a prominent part in any two state solution. But I think the Abbas government in the west bank might be another story.

In any case, what he made clear is exactly what I have been telling people here, and exactly whats in the Likud constitution... Israel as currently governed has absolutely no intention of allowing a palestinian no matter what the palestinians do. Even if palestinians completely stopped violence, and devoted their entire GDP to dredle and yamuka production to give as gifts to Israeli children... They WOULDNT GET ANYWHERE.

Unlike the USA, Israel can't afford to let terrorists run around and blow shit up. One major attack on Israel and that's all she wrote - Netanyahu simply won't let that happen. Under Abbas, things could get better for the Palestinians, but with Hamas running around, they have zero chance of building trust with Israel.

[jbg]

Yes ... When Israel does take over the West Bank and Gaza ... how will they get rid of all the Arabs there?

Or will they just not let them vote?

This may have been a real dilemma for Israel had the Arabs behaved in a remotely civilized manner. The Arabs are forcing developments that will have severe consequences on where and even if they live.

[Keepitsimple]

Yes ... When Israel does take over the West Bank and Gaza ... how will they get rid of all the Arabs there?

Or will they just not let them vote?

God forbid that Hamas would take control of the West Bank and force Israel into such an act - how would YOU deal with those who have sworn to murder you and eliminate your country? As I've said before, the problem is Hamas - not the Palestinian people. The vast majority of Palestinians just want a life - to live in peace and raise a family. There will be no partner in peace as long as Hamas is calling the shots.

Accept Israel's right to exist - and peace can be attained. Pretty straight forward.

[Rue]

Now "Hudson Jones" it's interesting you selected one article out of the paper you did but skipped the others oh you know the ones that stated:

1-Hamas is shelling the areas where food is being sent to Palestine from Israel-its literally trying to blow up the food going to Palestinians-yes sir "Hudson Jones" that sure seemed to miss your attention;

2- Hamas is harassing journalists on the ground in Gaza; or

3-Hamas is planning to recommence attacks on Friday...

Isn't it interesting how that works.

Also to those who keep throwing out the Likud Charter and Hamas Charter how about you finish your false allegation and put them side by side and show how they similar? You can't.

This pathetic false exercise of suggesting they are identical and therefore what Hamas stands for is acceptable is a new low on this forum in terms of b.,s. but please continue.

Rather than admit you can't defend the Charter, you try the pathetic exercise of -"oh yah you are a terrorist too.."

Good. I like that.

Lol.

I also liked the poster who came on the board and cheer leaded for Hamas. Not a mention of the Charter from him.

Jacee still will not acknowledge what it says or Dre or any of the other Hamas supporters on this board.

As for the Netanyahu article"Hudson Jones" it states exactly what all Israelis now know that a two state solution at this time is not possible. It will never be possible as long as Palestinians are controlled by terrorists.

Interestingly you take the comments out of context of course from other comments Netanyahu has said which have stated if Hamas and all terrorist groups were disbanded, gave up their declarations of war and terrorism, and chose democratic dialogue, then a two state solution leading up to and including sovereignty would be very possible.

You focus on his comments directly predicated on the premises that as long as Hamas continues as is, Palestinian sovereignty is not possible in Israel's eyes. How could it agree to recognize as a sovereign nation a nation dedicated to killing all its citizens? Do explain Hudson Jones. Also explain how that is a new comment or position.

Please Hudson Jones educate us all on why any country would recognize the right of another country to exist to destroy it.

Lol. Yah maybe that will come when "Hudson Jones" comments on the Charter.

Edited August 12, 2014 by Rue

[Hudson Jones]

They withdrew from Gaza, forcibly removed all Jewish settlers - and as a measure of good faith, dismantled some settlements in the West Bank - all in exchange for peace. All they got for their trouble was suicide bombers and rockets from Hamas.

They removed the Gaza settlers only to re-plant them in the West Bank. They also continued to occupy Gaza by controlling their borders, air and sea and creating buffer zones. This is not "good faith". This is the continuation of a brutal occupation that has been going on for decades. Well before Hamas was created.

While Israel removed some illegal outposts in the West Bank, they expanded the other illegal Jewish settlements at a much higher rate. All you need to do is look at the ferocious pace that the illegal Jewish settlers are increasing in the West Bank. Especially under the latest and most right wing/nationalist government. You should also look into the number of Palestinian homes that have been demolished in the occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The facts are there.

You can try to sugarcoat it all you want, but it's obvious that you're just another Israeli apologist who will go to any length, including not being dishonest about the situation in order to push the Zionist agenda.

[Bonam]

You can try to sugarcoat it all you want, but it's obvious that you're just another Israeli apologist who will go to any length, including not being dishonest about the situation in order to push the Zionist agenda.

Freudian slip?

[Keepitsimple]

They removed the Gaza settlers only to re-plant them in the West Bank. They also continued to occupy Gaza by controlling their borders, air and sea and creating buffer zones. This is not "good faith". This is the continuation of a brutal occupation that has been going on for decades. Well before Hamas was created.

While Israel removed some illegal outposts in the West Bank, they expanded the other illegal Jewish settlements at a much higher rate. All you need to do is look at the ferocious pace that the illegal Jewish settlers are increasing in the West Bank. Especially under the latest and most right wing/nationalist government. You should also look into the number of Palestinian homes that have been demolished in the occupied East Jerusalem and the West Bank. The facts are there.

You can try to sugarcoat it all you want, but it's obvious that you're just another Israeli apologist who will go to any length, including not being dishonest about the situation in order to push the Zionist agenda.

There is some truth to what you've said - but in entirely the wrong context. While no Jew can set foot in Gaza without being murdered or ransomed by Hamas, the West Bank is home to over 500,000 Jews - about 20% of the West Bank population.

It seems convenient for you to forget/dismiss/ignore the Munich massacre and the waves of Hamas suicide bombers that killed hundreds of innocent civilians inside Israel throughout the 90's and early 2000's. Now THAT is brutal.

Other than occupation - how else can you defend a country against an enemy that is sworn to your elimination and the killing of every single one of your citizens. How else other than by blocade - how else to deter a terrorist enemy that wants only one thing - for your country to be eliminated and all your people dead?

[dre]

There is some truth to what you've said - but in entirely the wrong context. While no Jew can set foot in Gaza without being murdered or ransomed by Hamas, the West Bank is home to over 500,000 Jews - about 20% of the West Bank population.

It seems convenient for you to forget/dismiss/ignore the Munich massacre and the waves of Hamas suicide bombers that killed hundreds of innocent civilians inside Israel throughout the 90's and early 2000's. Now THAT is brutal.

Other than occupation - how else can you defend a country against an enemy that is sworn to your elimination and the killing of every single one of your citizens. How else other than by blocade - how else to deter a terrorist enemy that wants only one thing - for your country to be eliminated and all your people dead?

The problem is youre trying to describe this as primarily a security operation when it isnt one. Most Israeli activity in the occupied territories is civilian in nature not military. They are harvesting massive ammounts of resources, building cities, roads, and towns.

This is a garden variety resource extraction, and land aquisition project, with the "natives" basically acting how one would expect them to act and putting up the same kind of non-factor, ineffectual resistance as we have seen in other cases around the world.

[Argus]

The problem is youre trying to describe this as primarily a security operation when it isnt one. Most Israeli activity in the occupied territories is civilian in nature not military. They are harvesting massive ammounts of resources, building cities, roads, and towns.

Harvesting massive amounts of resources? Like what?

[dre]

Harvesting massive amounts of resources? Like what?

Fresh water.

[Argus]

Fresh water.

Okay, so we're back to that. In other words, it's not 'massive amounts of resources' it's water. Why not say water?

My refrain is again that all sides should go back and revisit the plan to put a freshwater pipeline in place to bring water down from Turkey for both Jordan and Israel. I say that knowing that Turkey's Islamist regime will do nothing of the sort, of course. The new Sultan of Turkey has clearly realized, as have most of the other mideast Muslim dictators, how useful Israel is for a handy distraction to the unwashed masses.