War In Ukraine

[BeaverFever]

On 12/15/2022 at 7:06 AM, Nationalist said:

Ridiculous huh? What was it the li'l darling said the day after he was elected?

"I think that we will have personnel changes. In any case we will continue in the direction of the Minsk [peace] talks and head towards concluding a ceasefire"

What did he do? Trampled on the Ukrainian press and ignored any notions of peace. 

He's cut from the same dictatorial cloth as Putin. These 2 jack-asses deserve each other. 

“Ignored any notions of peace” by not allowing the Russians to overrun his entire country.    Yes, you are ridiculous 

[BeaverFever]

4 hours ago, Luz P. said:

Putin isn’t the monster the western MSM makes him out to be

Yeah I’m sure all those Russian Putin critics poisoned themselves and pushed themselves out of windows. 
 

And yeah everyone knows that if you do anything that requires “funds” it means you’re corrupt. So this whole defending themselves from invasion thing must be a giant scam. Borders defend themselves for free why would they need “funds”?

[Infidel Dog]

I heard an interesting one on the radio today.

Not sure how pertinent it is to this conversation.

This guy was claiming that every time Putin attacks somebody it happens after oil has gone up to $100 a barrel.

Interesting if true.

Edited December 17, 2022 by Infidel Dog

[Nationalist]

12 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

“Ignored any notions of peace” by not allowing the Russians to overrun his entire country.    Yes, you are ridiculous 

No...by continuing to attack the eastern regions that wanted autonomy.

Stop being such a sopping wet plank.

[Nationalist]

11 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

I heard an interesting one on the radio today.

Not sure how pertinent it is to this conversation.

This guy was claiming that every time Putin attacks somebody it happens after oil has gone up to $100 a barrel.

Interesting if true.

That is interesting. 

How much has this war driven up oil prices?

[Infidel Dog]

They were going up with or without it. I think I heard a 3% number from somebody as to how much they affected American gas prices though.

My personal best estimate would be, 'who knows?'

[Army Guy]

5 hours ago, Nationalist said:

No...by continuing to attack the eastern regions that wanted autonomy.

Stop being such a sopping wet plank.

I'm just curious what gives the Russian s the authority to invade Ukraine, was it for Nazi's, was it to protect Russian language, was it to protect Russian citizens, or is it just to ethic cleanse the area of all NAZI Ukrainians. 

 

[Nationalist]

6 hours ago, Army Guy said:

I'm just curious what gives the Russian s the authority to invade Ukraine, was it for Nazi's, was it to protect Russian language, was it to protect Russian citizens, or is it just to ethic cleanse the area of all NAZI Ukrainians. 

 

Actually...nothing really gives Russia the authority to do any of this. Just as the Ukes don't have the authority to force people to be part of their country and just like how NATO has no business getting involved in this.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Nationalist

[Army Guy]

18 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Actually...nothing really gives Russia the authority to do any of this. Just as the Ukes don't have the authority to force people to be part of their country and just like how NATO has no business getting involved in this.

So do we just bury our heads in the sand and let nature take it's course. and if we do what about all those values and morals we always talk about or is all that just bullshit.

Russia in this case is the bully, and Ukraine is that little kid with the glass as thick as coke bottles. Do we just let Russia slap them around, becasue they did something to *iss off Russia, and if so why do we have organizations such as the UN, or have such a thing as inter national law, to help nations guide themselves in todays world. The entire country was created with the help of Russia, those Russian citizens that live there moved there of their own free will, and if they don't like it move back to the mother land, same goes with those Ukrainians that no longer want to be a part of Ukraine...pack your bags, the inter national borders have already be drawn, and excepted. 

Or we could revert back to the period in time where might makes right and go on a inter national rampage to increase our power and reach, by dominating those weaker than us.  NATO is really just for show, most countries in NATO really does not have a sizeable military to even defend themselves let alone the entire continent of Europe.

Some NATO nations are waking up, most will spend the bare minimum they can get away with, and some nations like Canada really just wanted the badge to wear, nothing more, they don't want to play by the rules just want to be part of the conversations. like one of those yapping little puppies. 

[BeaverFever]

On 12/17/2022 at 8:13 AM, Nationalist said:

No...by continuing to attack the eastern regions that wanted autonomy.

Stop being such a sopping wet plank.

Ukraine was not “attacking the eastern regions of Ukraine”   You’re being the plank if you can’t understand that its been Russia attacking the eastern regions of Ukraine this whole time since 2014. Stop with your lies pretending that Russian mercenaries and Moscow-backed terrorist groups are poor defenceless civilians. 

Edited December 18, 2022 by BeaverFever

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

So do we just bury our heads in the sand and let nature take it's course. and if we do what about all those values and morals we always talk about or is all that just bullshit.

Russia in this case is the bully, and Ukraine is that little kid with the glass as thick as coke bottles. Do we just let Russia slap them around, becasue they did something to *iss off Russia, and if so why do we have organizations such as the UN, or have such a thing as inter national law, to help nations guide themselves in todays world. The entire country was created with the help of Russia, those Russian citizens that live there moved there of their own free will, and if they don't like it move back to the mother land, same goes with those Ukrainians that no longer want to be a part of Ukraine...pack your bags, the inter national borders have already be drawn, and excepted. 

Or we could revert back to the period in time where might makes right and go on a inter national rampage to increase our power and reach, by dominating those weaker than us.  NATO is really just for show, most countries in NATO really does not have a sizeable military to even defend themselves let alone the entire continent of Europe.

Some NATO nations are waking up, most will spend the bare minimum they can get away with, and some nations like Canada really just wanted the badge to wear, nothing more, they don't want to play by the rules just want to be part of the conversations. like one of those yapping little puppies. 

Lol...yapping little puppies. About says it all, eh?

This bully has a big gun. And NATO rejected the Ukraine. A peace deal was being negotiated, until that floppy-haired Brit made his appearance there.

But above all...this is none of our business. 

You wanna "guide" someone? Guide Biden to the toilet. 

[Nationalist]

19 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Ukraine was not “attacking the eastern regions of Ukraine”   You’re being the plank if you can’t understand that its been Russia attacking the eastern regions of Ukraine this whole time since 2014. Stop with your lies pretending that Russian mercenaries and Moscow-backed terrorist groups are poor defenceless civilians. 

My Gawd ur thick.

[BeaverFever]

4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

My Gawd ur thick.

Lol some comeback. As usual you’re resorting to cheap generic insults when you’re shown the facts and have your ass handed to you.  
 

The fact is you know SFA about Ukraine or Russia and you’re just parroting what you’ve been told by Kremlin-backed outlets and other IG accounts know-nothings from your friends and family. You don’t even understand or have the base level of knowledge to examine the nonsense you’re repeating which is a unique trait of the MAGA set. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

For the “ But but Putin says they’re all Nazis” crowd:

 

Ukraine Deradicalized Its Extremist Troops. Now They Might Be Preparing A Counteroffensive.

David AxeDec 16, 2022,
 

The narrative the Kremlin advances to justify its brutal war on the Ukrainian people—that Ukraine is a far-right Nazi regime bent on destroying Russia—is a lie.

Yes, there really are far-right elements in Ukrainian society. But it’s unfair to describe Ukrainian military units—even those that orginally formed within fringe groups—as “right-wing.” Kyiv deliberately has de-radicalized these units.

The 98th Azov Battalion is one of several units that has undergone this transformation. Today the battalion essentially is indistinguishable from other Ukrainian formations.

 

The anti-immigrant Azov Movement arguably is the most powerful of Ukraine’s far-right organizations. When Russian troops and the separatist allies first attacked eastern Ukraine back in 2014, the Azov Movement formed an armed paramilitary regiment—and resisted.

The Azov Regiment really was an extremist formation. It borrowed iconography from Nazi Germany and, in addition to fighting the Russians, functioned as a base of support for its racist founder Andriy Biletsky as he successfully campaigned for a seat in parliament.

The Ukrainian army in late 2014 formally integrated the Azov Regiment. Many of Ukraine’s foreign allies, including the United States, objected to the integration. But the deradicalization process already was underway.

For starters, Biletsky was gone—off campaigning for the parliamentary seat he would hold until 2019. What’s more, the Ukrainian general staff in mid-2015 pulled the Azov Regiment from the front line for restructuring and retraining.

Massive manpower turnover alone significantly diluted the regiment’s ideology. By the time it returned to the front line in early 2019, the Azov Regiment probably was unrecognizable to its original members. It likely was even less recognizable three years later this February, when Russia widened its war on Ukraine.

“The Azov Regiment has been repeatedly reconstituted,” wroteAlasdair McCallum, a researcher at Monash University in Australia. “Its extremist early leaders such as the odious Andriy Biletsky are long gone, and, more recently, its fearsome, pseudo-pagan regimental emblem has been abandoned.”

By the time the Azov Regiment began spinning off successor units, the ideological poison mostly was gone. The 98th Azov Battalion stood up this spring, around the same time the original regiment was fighting nearly to the last man and woman in Mariupol, an historic city on the Ukrainian Black Sea coast that Russian forces surrounded and besieged early in the wider war.

…

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/12/16/ukraine-deradicalized-its-extremist-troops-now-they-might-be-preparing-a-counteroffensive/?sh=321f2bb8692d

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

‘We stand in solidarity with the people of Ukraine,’ Anti-Defamation League says

“We understand what is at stake in this war and we are proud to advocate for continued and expanded Western military, political and economic support for Ukraine,” stated the Jewish organization.
 

We at the Anti-Defamation League, together with the rest of the American Jewish community; and we, members of the Ukrainian Jewish community, stand in solidarity in the historic struggle for Ukrainian freedom in the war against the Russian invader.

We collectively understand this is a critical moment in the history of post-World War II Europe – both strategically and morally. We understand what is at stake in this war and we are proud to advocate for continued and expanded Western military, political and economic support for Ukraine.

In the complicated world in which we live, this war is a rare instance of good and evil in clear distinction. Russia invaded Ukraine without provocation, but with a clear and articulated goal of extinguishing Ukraine’s very existence as a sovereign state.

Ukrainian Jews suffering Russia's propaganda about Ukraine as a Nazi regime

All Ukrainians have been the target of Russian aggression, but the Jewish community of Ukraine has suffered the additional insult of Russia’s propaganda about Ukraine as a Nazi regime.

Tanks of the Ukrainian armed forces are parked on the roadside during a withdrawal near the village of Nyzhnje in Luhansk region, Ukraine, October 5, 2015. (credit: STRINGER/ REUTERS)

In order to justify their unjustifiable actions, the Russian leadership has asked the world to believe the unthinkable: That the Ukrainian government led by a Jewish president, Volodymyr Zelensky, is in fact “a Nazi regime.” 

When confronted with the truth that Ukraine is a democracy, led by a president and defense minister who are both Jewish, Russia stepped up its accusations and distortions by claiming that Jews can be Nazis and hinting that Hitler himself may have had Jewish blood. 

This propaganda insults Ukrainian and American Jews whose families experienced the Holocaust and mainstreams Holocaust denial and trivialization.

We are encouraged by the turn in the war in favor of Ukraine. We know, however, that Ukrainian civilians continue to be targeted and killed on a daily basis. And we know that Russia will undoubtedly grow even more brutal as it gets more desperate.

That is why we urge continued strong support in every way from the US and the West to make sure the Russians understand they cannot win this war, and those negotiations can only be about Russia evacuating the territory it has invaded.

This war of aggression by Russia has caused tens of thousands of deaths, displaced millions from their homes, caused families to be split, and overwhelmed neighboring countries with refugees. All of which is morally untenable, and strategically dangerous. 

If Europe is to have a peaceful future, and if the Jews of Europe are to have their own future within the continent, then we, Ukrainians, Americans, Europeans, Israelis and others must recommit ourselves to saving Ukraine and achieving a peace that reverses the Russian aggression.

As we see from the courage of the Ukrainian people, this goal is not a pipe dream. But it can only happen if the world exhibits the same stamina in this conflict that the Ukrainians have.

After all, it is a struggle that we all must face.

Boris Lozhkin is president of the Jewish Confederation of Ukraine. Jonathan Greenblatt is CEO and national director of ADL (the Anti-Defamation League).

https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-725214/amp

 

@Nationalist

@WestCanMan

@DogOnPorch

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeaverFever

[Moonbox]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

You don’t even understand or have the base level of knowledge to examine the nonsense you’re repeating which is a unique trait of the MAGA set. 

I think we need to be fair to the MAGA crowd and acknowledge that most of them aren't Putin fanboys either.  Some are, but red-blooded Republicans have a deep-seated suspicion of Russians going back decades.  

[Nationalist]

9 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Lol some comeback. As usual you’re resorting to cheap generic insults when you’re shown the facts and have your ass handed to you.  
 

The fact is you know SFA about Ukraine or Russia and you’re just parroting what you’ve been told by Kremlin-backed outlets and other IG accounts know-nothings from your friends and family. You don’t even understand or have the base level of knowledge to examine the nonsense you’re repeating which is a unique trait of the MAGA set. 

https://strategic-culture.org/news/2014/05/31/how-the-ukrainian-civil-war-started/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/10/when-did-the-ukraine-war-begin/

Beave...

You, your bloodthirsty little pose, the propoganda-mill that is NATO and EU "news", are dupes and liars.

NATO, the USA and the UN have broken every post cold war agreement they made with Russia.

The bloodbath in Odessa and the subsequent attacks on the Donbas region clearly exhibit the aggression of the Ukrainian government, backed by US funds and military contractors. 

You are nothing more than just another useful fool. A vampire egging on liars, in order to satisfy your cultivated need for war. Oh you won't actually fight in that war. No, but you'll gladly pay for it, while tens of thousands of Ukrainians die.

In short, you are what it sounds like.

A fool with money.

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

https://strategic-culture.org/news/2014/05/31/how-the-ukrainian-civil-war-started/

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/10/when-did-the-ukraine-war-begin/

Beave...

You, your bloodthirsty little pose, the propoganda-mill that is NATO and EU "news", are dupes and liars.

NATO, the USA and the UN have broken every post cold war agreement they made with Russia.

The bloodbath in Odessa and the subsequent attacks on the Donbas region clearly exhibit the aggression of the Ukrainian government, backed by US funds and military contractors. 

You are nothing more than just another useful fool. A vampire egging on liars, in order to satisfy your cultivated need for war. Oh you won't actually fight in that war. No, but you'll gladly pay for it, while tens of thousands of Ukrainians die.

In short, you are what it sounds like.

A fool with money.

Like I said, you parrot Kremlin sources and repeat lies that you aren’t equipped to understand.   Thanks for proving me right by linking to a Kremlin propaganda front as your source for information : 

 

The Strategic Culture Foundation(SCF) is a Russian think tank based in Moscow that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. SCF is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests by the United States government.^[1][2]
 

SCF has been characterized as a conservative, pro-Russian propaganda website by U.S. media^[2]and others.^[3]

SCF has a pattern of sharing articles with other Russia-controlled outlets such as Global Research, New Eastern Outlook, and SouthFront.^[4]

The Washington Post reported in September 2020 that Facebook had banned a Russian disinformation network operated by SCF—a network that "helped spread conspiracy theories aimed at English-speaking audiences, including by fueling false rumors that the coronavirus was produced as a bioweapon and that a potential vaccine would include tracking technology."^[5] The Post's report stated that the Strategic Culture Foundation “also spread false information that Bill Gates, the tech executive and philanthropist, was leading efforts to create a vaccine with surveillance capabilities.” The Post's report called the Strategic Culture Foundation “a phony think tank”.^[5]

In April 2021, the United States Department of the Treasury imposed sanctions on SCF because of their efforts to interfere in the 2020 elections.^[6][7] According to the United States Department of State, the SCF journal "is directed by Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service(SVR) and closely affiliated with Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs."^[4][

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Culture_Foundation
 

Sucker.

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeaverFever

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

https://www.counterpunch.org/2022/03/10/when-did-the-ukraine-war-begin/

 

This link is to am article from a far-left antifa-style “Anti US Imperialism” crowd who for decades have been apologizing for the likes of Castro, Chavez and Maduro Venezuela, Iran and on. Which just goes to show how desperate the Putin MAGAs have become 

 

Has the US abused its power for decades in order to enrich itself and its corporate patrons?  Of course.  Is there any legitimate reason it continues to starve the people of Cuba ? Of course not.   But the narrative of this article that Europe and USA are aggressive villains and that Putin and his ousted Ukrainian dictator puppet are innocent victims is ludicrous.  Conveniently the article leaves out that the Putin and his puppet tampered with elections to seize power and poisoned opposition politicians, jailed critics and beat up and murdered journalists, and opened fire on unarmed civilian protesters!  It only concedes that the Putin puppet’s ouster “had elements of an authentic popular revolt”. 
 

And of course despite tjis obvious disinformation, nothing the US or Europe could do would ever justify Putin’s actions.

The whole excuse is: “But Your Honour, if you agree that he insulted me unfairly then you must also agree that I had no choice but to respond by raping and murdering his children!  I’m the real victim here!”

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The bloodbath in Odessa and the subsequent attacks on the Donbas region

Stop lying.  Stop trying to make it sound like fighting Russian armed and trained terrorist groups and Wagner mercenaries WHO SHOT DOWN A F—KING AIRLINER WITH HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE ON BOARD WITH RUSSIAN ARMY MISSILES is simply Ukraine attacking innocent civilians. 
 

You must think that the raid on Ossama Bin Laden’s compound was evil America attacking innocent Arabs and that 9/11 was America’s faiult foe “provoking” Al Qaeda.  I bet your newfound leftist bedfellow Roger Harris does. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by BeaverFever

[Boges]

On 12/16/2022 at 3:40 PM, Nationalist said:

I don't know. Nor do you. It's possible they retreated because they screwed up...and it's possible there were other reasons.

Why try that invasion in the first place? If the goal was destabilization, that wouldn't require actual boots on the ground in great numbers. 

Those tens of thousands of dead Russians would have come in handy defending the territory that, you say, was the whole purpose of this invasion in the first place. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Boges

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Why try that invasion in the first place? If the goal was destabilization, that wouldn't require actual boots on the ground in a great numbers. 

Those tens of thousands of dead Russians would have come in handy defending the territory that, you say, was the whole purpose of this invasion in the first place. 

Their stated purpose for the invasion has changed several times already. Even they don’t know.  
 

As shown repeatedly, MAGA support and believe is not conditional upon knowledge or understanding. Their entire approach to life is: find the right masters who know all and then obey him without thought or question.  This branch of the MAGA family includes Putin propagandists as among of those masters.  After all, you don’t have to understand or know anything about animal digestive systems to shovel manure all day, you just have to be obedient and do it without question   For them repeating their BS is not any different  
 

Its not just that they can’t tell truths from lies, or poor logic from sound logic, They actively don’t care what’s true and what’s not or what is logical and what is not.  They are the kind of people who don’t normally have those thoughts in their daily life and don’t view that kind of thinking as the average person’s job. They believe job is to obey and support their “team” no matter what . 

[Army Guy]

20 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...yapping little puppies. About says it all, eh?

This bully has a big gun. And NATO rejected the Ukraine. A peace deal was being negotiated, until that floppy-haired Brit made his appearance there.

But above all...this is none of our business. 

You wanna "guide" someone? Guide Biden to the toilet. 

Ya got it , they got a big gun, and what we have seen so far , that is all , just a big gun, but having a big gun does not mean you can just make the rules as you go, just look at the reason they used to attack, Nazi's or defending the Russian language pretty weak really...and not even telling your entire military what the objectives are, or why, says a lot or highlights the lack of trust in your commanders. And if the Russian soldiers see that we can't we...

Your right it is none of our business, but where is the line, when we atleast raise an eyebrow and ask hey thats not right, 

LOL, Biden already has a babysitting service, but what i would do, I'd like to guide Justin into the back forty in spring time in grizzly country without a fire arm. it's a dream of mine. 

[BeaverFever]

On 12/16/2022 at 3:40 PM, Nationalist said:

I don't know. Nor do you. It's possible they retreated because they screwed up...and it's possible there were other reasons.

“It’s possible France lost the world cup on purpose as part of some grand plan we can’t comprehend. I don’t know. Nor do you”

[Nationalist]

7 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Like I said, you parrot Kremlin sources and repeat lies that you aren’t equipped to understand.   Thanks for proving me right by linking to a Kremlin propaganda front as your source for information : 

 

The Strategic Culture Foundation(SCF) is a Russian think tank based in Moscow that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. SCF is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests by the United States government.^[1][2]
 

SCF has been characterized as a conservative, pro-Russian propaganda website by U.S. media^[2]and others.^[3]

SCF has a pattern of sharing articles with other Russia-controlled outlets such as Global Research, New Eastern Outlook, and SouthFront.^[4]

The Washington Post reported in September 2020 that Facebook had banned a Russian disinformation network operated by SCF—a network that "helped spread conspiracy theories aimed at English-speaking audiences, including by fueling false rumors that the coronavirus was produced as a bioweapon and that a potential vaccine would include tracking technology."^[5] The Post's report stated that the Strategic Culture Foundation “also spread false information that Bill Gates, the tech executive and philanthropist, was leading efforts to create a vaccine with surveillance capabilities.” The Post's report called the Strategic Culture Foundation “a phony think tank”.^[5]

In April 2021, the United States Department of the Treasury imposed sanctions on SCF because of their efforts to interfere in the 2020 elections.^[6][7] According to the United States Department of State, the SCF journal "is directed by Russia's Foreign Intelligence Service(SVR) and closely affiliated with Russia's Ministry of Foreign Affairs."^[4][

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_Culture_Foundation
 

Sucker.

A fool and his money...

Enjoy your winter killings.