War In Ukraine

[WestCanMan]

This is a thread to just talk about the war and the events of the war in a non-partisan manner.

The "Dummying" Thread is more about Biden's ineptitude and the damage done, but we're past that now and people are dying. It's just a war, and Dem Presidents are not getting killed in it. 

Map of the hotspots: 

https://liveuamap.com

Casualties:

Ukranians were claiming that 352 Ukranian civilians were killed and 1700 were injured. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll

Zelensy claims that "almost 10,000 Russian soldiers have been killed": 

 

I'm not sure if the Ukrainians know how propaganda works, or if they know how math works, but if Russian troops really came in and killed so few people, while taking such heavy losses, while enjoying such a massive military advantage and so many soft targets to hit, then they really are doing a masterful job of staging a bloodless war and they're to be commended for their restraint. 

Are there US biolabs in Ukraine? 

Some say yes: https://www.plenglish.com/news/2022/03/04/u-s-chemical-weapons-manufacturing-in-ukraine-revealed/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=u-s-chemical-weapons-manufacturing-in-ukraine-revealed 

Some say no: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2022/02/25/fact-check-claim-us-biolabs-ukraine-disinformation/6937923001/

Even if the first part is true we will never know so it's a moot point. Russia will say yes, America will say no, and never the twain shall meet. End of story.

What's for sure is that if Ukraine joined NATO, there absolutely would be bioweapons and strategic nukes in eastern Ukraine, regardless of what treaties and conventions say. 

Cuban Missile Crisis:

The similarities between this war and the Cuban missile crisis are obvious. If Russia allows Ukraine to join NATO they are screwed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Missile_Crisis

For the people who say that Russia had no right/need to invade Ukraine, I would just be interested in 1) whether or not you feel like the US had the right to block Russian missiles from entering the sovereign nation of Cuba, who wanted the Russians there and 2) how this is any different from the Cuban Missile Crisis? Of course actual war broke out here, but the US also threatened war with Russia if they didn't relent in Cuba. 

[Dougie93]

44 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

 how this is any different from the Cuban Missile Crisis?

this is far more dangerous

in 1962,  the Soviets were not backs against the wall as Russia is now

and the Soviets could not launch a massive strike against North America as the Russians could now

so this is next level up from Cuba 1962

this is the central front in Europe, with a Soviet army fully engaged in a total war of annihilation

nothing like this ever happened in the Cold War

on this trajectory, it is the opening phases of the Third World War

Article V is no shield, NATO is being dragged over the line, through Poland, inexorably

 

[Dougie93]

as it could be initiated at anytime, perhaps even by mistake

in the event of thermonuclear strike against North America

get indoors, get away from the windows, get in the bathtub

it's similar to a tornado strike

in terms of radioactive fallout

that's stontoium-90

it's a grey powdery ash

it binds to calcium, so it's in the plants and fresh meat

the radiation is short wave however

so it doesn't penetrate your skin

it is only lethal if you breathe it in, or ingest it

so treat it like asbestos

tape up your windows & doors with thick plastic

wear the same protective clothing & respirator as you would dealing with asbetos

and remember that it is just a powdery ash, so it washes away with soap & water

[Dougie93]

remember that the prevailing winds are going east

so radioactive plumes are coming at you from the west

to the east is downrange

so go uprange to the west

and go to high ground in the mountains

the fallout is working its way through the water table, so head for mountain streams

pack a rucksack, bring all your tools, prepare to build improvised shelter, then build a cabin after

your car battery will be killed by the EMP

so keep spare car batteries, wrap them in aluminum foil, that insulates against EMP

and obviously gas stations will not be working, so stock up on gasoline

[Dougie93]

besides soap & water

to get rid of fallout

what you want is called Fuller's Earth

that's clay in powdered form

the srontium-90 will bind to it

so you pat things down with Fuller's Earth first

then hose yourself down

now would be a good time to buy a Geiger counter, and load up on as many batteries as you can carry

[Dougie93]

the radiation does not penetrate your skin,

so it doesn't penetrate metal nor plastic neither

so any packed food or beverage is safe, canned goods, packaged goods, etc

anything fresh tho, plants in the wild, animals who eat those plants

do not ingest, all that will be radioactive

[Dougie93]

remember that the earth absorbs tremendous amounts of radiation

520 nuclear bombs detonated in the atmosphere already, 545 megatons worth

the earth absorbed all that relatively quickly

plus Chernobyl & Fukushima too

that was absorbed in a matter of months

so regardless of the half life of a strontium-90 isotope

you won't have to hide away from radiation for years

it will get washed downriver to the oceans, which will absorb most of it

so in terms of dodging the worst of the fallout, most of that will dissipate within a matter of months

so plan to hunker down for a year or so, beyond that, should be safe to come down out of the hills

[Charles Anthony]

What the hell is going on?? 

Avoid thread drift. 

Do not make me work harder than you do to make you avoid thread drift. 

 

 

 

Maybe avoid the bottle....? 

Edited March 6, 2022 by Charles Anthony
"In a bottle way."

[Dougie93]

3 minutes ago, Charles Anthony said:

Maybe avoid the bottle....? 

pardon me

this is the brink of thermonuclear war inherently at this juncture

so just passing on some civil defense knowledge from the Cold War

I've said my peace on it

[Charles Anthony]

Please start a separate thread. 

[Dougie93]

1 minute ago, Charles Anthony said:

Please start a separate thread. 

that's all there is to it really

like surviving a tornado first

then Chernobyl after

simple as that

[Dougie93]

in fairness, the OP invoked the Cuban Missie Crisis

so these are the thing you have to consider in the face of that contingency

[sharkman]

They cast lots over the demise of Ukraine in 2021.  All this hand wringing and sanctions is just for show.  Don’t get me wrong, Ukraine is almost as corrupt as the US, but the people don’t deserve to pay for the sins of their leaders.

Still, Russia will fail.  Putin is going to get sick.  His enemies will make their presence felt.  It’s going to be an eventful year...

[Nationalist]

Oh Goodie! More fear!

I just wanna take this opportunity to thanks all the Libbies who have demanded the shutting down of the fossil fuel industry in The West.

And a special thanks goes out to Joe Biden and Sandy Cortez.

I have only one thing to say about this "war". NATO must stay the hell out of it!

[Boges]

8 hours ago, sharkman said:

They cast lots over the demise of Ukraine in 2021.  All this hand wringing and sanctions is just for show.  Don’t get me wrong, Ukraine is almost as corrupt as the US, but the people don’t deserve to pay for the sins of their leaders.

Those people chose their leader. Putin is trying to impose "a leader" on them.  

[WestCanMan]

21 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

this is far more dangerous

in 1962,  the Soviets were not backs against the wall as Russia is now

I was speaking more to the justification behind Kennedy drawing his line in the sand around Cuba, and Putin drawing his line in the sand at Ukraine. 

People in NA almost universally support Kennedy's stand against Russia, because the silos were too close to home, and every one of those people who supported Kennedy is somehow against Russia's stance against Ukraine joining NATO. 

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

IDGAF about Ukraine. They had their chance to notice all the tanks and troops around them. They could have done what they needed to do in order to keep their citizens safe.

Russia can bomb them (conventional bombs, not nukes) for all I care. I wouldn't give Ukraine the steam off my shit. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

[WestCanMan]

50 minutes ago, Boges said:

Those people chose their leader. Putin is trying to impose "a leader" on them.  

The US does that all the time, and not just with their next door neighbours, they do it on every continent.

Just listen to Biden's idiotic boast about his quid pro quo when he got the top prosecutor in Ukraine fired. People fixate on the first part, about how Biden used American loan guarantees to oust the prosecutor that was there, and ignore the cute little part where Biden said "and I replaced him with a guy that was solid" (ie, who ignored Burisma, and Zlochevsky was allowed to come back to Burisma).

American Joe Biden unilaterally appointed the top prosector in Ukraine. The CEO of Burisma got all of his toys back. No biggie. 

[Boges]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The US does that all the time, and not just with their next door neighbours, they do it on every continent.

Just listen to Biden's idiotic boast about his quid pro quo when he got the top prosecutor in Ukraine fired. People fixate on the first part, about how Biden used American loan guarantees to oust the prosecutor that was there, and ignore the cute little part where Biden said "and I replaced him with a guy that was solid" (ie, who ignored Burisma, and Zlochevsky was allowed to come back to Burisma).

American Joe Biden unilaterally appointed the top prosector in Ukraine. The CEO of Burisma got all of his toys back. No biggie. 

Blah Blah Hunter. 

If you think this invasion is about Hunter Biden, you're a moron. 

Anything the US did in Ukraine, pale in comparison to a full scale invasion and genocide. 

[Nationalist]

6 minutes ago, Boges said:

Blah Blah Hunter. 

If you think this invasion is about Hunter Biden, you're a moron. 

Anything the US did in Ukraine, pale in comparison to a full scale invasion and genocide. 

If you think Hunter's hi-jink and Joe's involvement in it all, have nothing to do with this...I'm afraid you are, what we like to call, "a plank".

[Michael Hardner]

23 minutes ago, Boges said:

Anything the US did in Ukraine, pale in comparison to a full scale invasion and genocide. 

There is SUPER "horseshoe theory" energy happening right now as far left and far right unite to denounced... NATO.  And now speculation that Trump would have ended the alliance if he was re-elected.

There are some kinds of stupid that are beyond understanding.  The sane left is looking around going "WTF - now I have to defend NATO ?" ... and the insane left is applauding Russia and China 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Blah Blah Hunter. 

If you think this invasion is about Hunter Biden, you're a moron. 

Your post was unbelievably stupid. I never said this war was about Hunter at all. 

You talked about whether or not Russia should be able to influence who the leader of Ukraine is, I said that the Americans don't just do that stuff with their neighbours, they do it to everyone all over the world. 

Quote

Anything the US did in Ukraine, pale in comparison to a full scale invasion and genocide. 

I thought that you started off you post with full retard, but then somehow you managed to kick it up a notch.

1) There's no genocide here. Ukraine's own body count sys a few hundred Ukrainians and 10,000 Russian soldiers

2) The smoking hole formerly known as Iraq just called, they want to know what constitutes genocide, or a legitimate reason for war.

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I thought that you started off you post with full retard, but then somehow you managed to kick it up a notch.

1) There's no genocide here. Ukraine's own body count sys a few hundred Ukrainians and 10,000 Russian soldiers

2) The smoking hole formerly known as Iraq just called, they want to know what constitutes genocide, or a legitimate reason for war.

Oh so Putin has a legit reason for war? 

If 10,000 Russian soldiers have died, then that's a demonstration of Putin's indifference to his own people. And how insane it was to invade a country like Ukraine in 2022. 

But the Russians are purposely targeting Civilians now, because their infantry can't do a whole lot against a population that hates them. These Genocidal War crimes from a Genocidal leader. 

It's telling you're Carrying water for Putin.

[Dougie93]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I was speaking more to the justification behind Kennedy drawing his line in the sand around Cuba, and Putin drawing his line in the sand at Ukraine. 

People in NA almost universally support Kennedy's stand against Russia, because the silos were too close to home, and every one of those people who supported Kennedy is somehow against Russia's stance against Ukraine joining NATO. 

It's hypocrisy of the highest order.

IDGAF about Ukraine. They had their chance to notice all the tanks and troops around them. They could have done what they needed to do in order to keep their citizens safe.

Russia can bomb them (conventional bombs, not nukes) for all I care. I wouldn't give Ukraine the steam off my shit. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 

Cuba took Kennedy by surprise

he thought that he had a rapport with Khrushchev

in the 1960 election against the virulent Anti-Communist Nixon, the Soviets endorsed Kennedy as the "peacemaker"

what happened was that Kennedy got saddled with the Dulles / Eisenhower Bay of Pigs plan

that was a humiliating disaster for JFK

but it was even more influential on the Soviets

the Soviets were coming out of the Stalin era, seeking renewal

they saw Castro as the New Model Communist, the Young Turk for the Bolsheviks

they had romantic notions about Castro, they felt like they needed to defend him

Khrushchev viewed it as quid pro quo

the Americans put Jupiter missiles in Turkey, we put missiles in Cuba, what's the big deal ?

but Kennedy was taken by surprise, he thought that Khrushchev wanted deescalation

so when he saw missiles being moved into Cuba secretly, he panicked

"oh my God, it's Nuclear Pearl Harbour !"

 

 

 

[Dougie93]

reports are that the Ukrainians have sunk the Russian corvette Vasily Bykov off the coast of Odessa

appears that they struck the ship with 122mm Grad rockets from shore batteries

Slava Ukraini !

 

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Boges said:

Oh so Putin has a legit reason for war? 

Yes. He's not going to let Ukraine bring NATO in.

Quote

If 10,000 Russian soldiers have died, then that's a demonstration of Putin's indifference to his own people. And how insane it was to invade a country like Ukraine in 2022. 

No one knows how many have died. Zelensky said that but he's obviously not going to tell the truth.

Quote

But the Russians are purposely targeting Civilians now, because their infantry can't do a whole lot against a population that hates them. These Genocidal War crimes from a Genocidal leader. 

It's telling you're Carrying water for Putin.

Stop watching CNN and CTV and then acting like you know wtf is going on. It's so annoying.