War In Ukraine

[Moonbox]

9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

OK this is true I guess. You do show me just how ridiculous one person can get if they believe the clap-trap the MSM feeds us.

As opposed to Russia Today.  ?

As far as MSM goes, it really couldn't get more mainstream than that. State-controlled news outlets from Russia, apparently, are reliable, but everything else around the world, whether it's southeast asia, the middle east or anywhere that isn't a tin-pot dictatorship is unreliable compared to...Russia Today.  ?

[Nationalist]

23 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

As opposed to Russia Today.  ?

As far as MSM goes, it really couldn't get more mainstream than that. State-controlled news outlets from Russia, apparently, are reliable, but everything else around the world, whether it's southeast asia, the middle east or anywhere that isn't a tin-pot dictatorship is unreliable compared to...Russia Today.  ?

I didn't say any of them are reliable. I said I read both and make my mind up having more than just one side of the story. But hey...look who I'm trying to reason with. A guy with a clowny-face fetish.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

As opposed to Russia Today.  ?

As far as MSM goes, it really couldn't get more mainstream than that. State-controlled news outlets from Russia, apparently, are reliable, but everything else around the world, whether it's southeast asia, the middle east or anywhere that isn't a tin-pot dictatorship is unreliable compared to...Russia Today.  ?

No, that's just stupid.

Just because CNN, Washo, etc are liars doesn't automatically make Russian news sources honest and reliable. Your attempt at logic is bizarre, which is exactly what I'd expect from a diehard DNC sycophant.

It's possible to listen to two liars and glean some truth from their conflicting stories. 

If one says "Our side is winning in Blatvia" and the other side says "Our side is winning in Blatvia", at least you know that the battle is in Blatvia now, which makes Blatvia the new front line. That means that the people who said "Our side is winning the battle outside of Blatvia" was correct, because the line moved the way they wanted it to move. 

[BeaverFever]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The ONE Nazi battalion? How many Nazi Battalions are there in the rest of the world? None, at least not in any official army units. 

There are none in the Ukraine either   Please develop reading skills as this has been explained multiple times. When the government took over the unit from the private (nazi) citizens who formed it, SEVEN YEARS AGO they purged the Nazis and the Nazi symbology. The unit does not still have Nazi symbols on their uniforms, your propaganda is based on old info. 

 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

They're the same people who committed war crimes within their own country. 

No more war crimes than the pro-Russia militias did. Remember the Russian militias you support shot down a civilian airliner with hundreds of people on board with a Regular Russian army mobile Buk missile launcher FFS.  PLUS there all the raping, pillaging and civilian- killing your beloved Russian troops are doing now, you hypocrite.  
 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The defamation leagues can say what they want, just like the US gov't can, I don't have to believe them. 

Yeah go ahead and white-splain to the Jews and the ADL especially about antisemitism. I’m sure you know far more than they do. ?

 

 

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If someone says that they're a Nazi, I'll believe them. When they wear the emblems and get tattooed, I'll believe them even more. When they commit war crimes, I'll have a really, really hard time not believing them. 

As already mentioned those people ate ling gon. Stop pretending the past is the present whem it’s convenient for you. Your Russian terrorist  buddies shot down an airliner full of innocent people and the Russian military is full of neo-Nazis who openly support Putin. 

[Boges]

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Have you seen Kiev lately? I'd say it's crippled. Might have taken a bit more oomph but ya...pretty crippled.

Not because of an ill advised invasion but because of Terror Bombing. Something you seem gleeful about. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, BeaverFever said:

There are none in the Ukraine either   Please develop reading skills as this has been explained multiple times. When the government took over the unit from the private (nazi) citizens who formed it, SEVEN YEARS AGO they purged the Nazis and the Nazi symbology. The unit does not still have Nazi symbols on their uniforms, your propaganda is based on old info. 

They still had Nazi symbols as late as May of this year. There was no purge 7 years ago. https://www.rt.com/news/556379-azov-batallion-nazi-insignia/

Quote

The infamous Azov nationalist regiment, which is being revived by Ukraine after it surrendered to Russian forces in Mariupol, has removed the Nazi-linked Wolfsangel symbol from its insignia, The Times reported on Monday.

That article was from May 22nd.

They're not switching because they're no longer Nazis, it's just optics.

Quote

No more war crimes than the pro-Russia militias did. Remember the Russian militias you support shot down a civilian airliner with hundreds of people on board with a Regular Russian army mobile Buk missile launcher FFS.  PLUS there all the raping, pillaging and civilian- killing your beloved Russian troops are doing now, you hypocrite.

So you're admitting that they're Nazis and they commit war crimes, yet you still adore them. GJ.

My favourite 'Merican propaganda was the old body counts that said there were 15,000 Russian soldiers killed, about 1,500 Ukrainian soldiers killed, a few hundred civilians dead, but somehow it was a 'genocide' lol. 

Leftards are so stupid you can tell them anything, but I hate that we all have to sift through it. 

Quote

Yeah go ahead and white-splain to the Jews and the ADL especially about antisemitism. I’m sure you know far more than they do. ?

There's no explanation needed. They know the truth, they're just saying what they're saying. You know it's BS (or at least I hope you do), but that doesn't stop you from repeating it. 

Quote

As already mentioned those people ate ling gon. Stop pretending the past is the present whem it’s convenient for you.

No, your propaganda says they are long gone, one of us isn't stupid enough to believe it. 

 

[Nationalist]

14 hours ago, Boges said:

Not because of an ill advised invasion but because of Terror Bombing. Something you seem gleeful about. 

Again with the unsubstantiated sound-byte crap.

Can you Libbies do anything without lying? The FACT is...western Ukraine is cripple...severely.

[Boges]

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Again with the unsubstantiated sound-byte crap.

Can you Libbies do anything without lying? The FACT is...western Ukraine is cripple...severely.

Let's stay focused here. 

Putin could send missiles into Ukraine without costing his country a TON!!!! of military capital. His military ventures have amounted to very little. So why do it in the first place. He really thought he could march into Kiev and kill Zelensky. 

This video describes Putin's initial motives and his current options quite well. 

 

Putin's hope now is that the West tire of supporting Ukraine. Which I'm guessing you're doing as well. The consequences of that are not good for stability in the region. 

[Nationalist]

27 minutes ago, Boges said:

Let's stay focused here. 

Putin could send missiles into Ukraine without costing his country a TON!!!! of military capital. His military ventures have amounted to very little. So why do it in the first place. He really thought he could march into Kiev and kill Zelensky. 

This video describes Putin's initial motives and his current options quite well. 

 

Putin's hope now is that the West tire of supporting Ukraine. Which I'm guessing you're doing as well. The consequences of that are not good for stability in the region. 

My hope...is that this little war does not escalate to a world war.

[Boges]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

My hope...is that this little war does not escalate to a world war.

Well the video touches on the idea that Putin will use his demands to hold the west hostage? 

Is negotiating with the terrorist ever a good idea? You seem convinced that Putin will stop at the Donbas. Which is a huge loss for the viability of Ukraine as an independent nation. 

Folding to Russia because he has nukes would only embolden him. 

AND would encourage China to try to annex Taiwan. 

[Moonbox]

17 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I didn't say any of them are reliable.

The internet is full of people ranting ignorantly or outright making crap up.  If they're not reliable, why would you reference them?  ? 

17 hours ago, Nationalist said:

I said I read both and make my mind up having more than just one side of the story. But hey...look who I'm trying to reason with. A guy with a clowny-face fetish.

You're not legitimately trying to reason with anyone here.  The idea that you're looking at "both sides of the story" is comical at face value given how every ounce of your energy has been spent criticizing everyone except the architect of this invasion.  You've done nothing but parrot his talking points, and you've been unable to support any of your arguments beyond citing propaganda pieces from Russia itself, or their dubious allies. 

You criticize western support for Ukraine vs Russia as "bloodthirsty", but then gleefully point to Russian bombing of Ukrainian cities far from the front lines.  

You tell us how you just want the war to end, but then tell us:

Your position on Russia's invasion of Ukraine is obvious to everyone, and your attempts to dissemble and convince people otherwise are embarrassing.  I don't even know why you try.  There's no serious debate to be had with you if you can't even coherently reconcile your stated position with all of the foolish things you've said that directly contradict it.

Even when someone does try to engage with your seriously (like Army Guy a few pages back), your responses are usually little more than juvenile one-liners.  If you're not going to offer anything more than that, then yes, you're going to continue to get ???, which is as serious a response as your posts deserve.  

 

 

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, Boges said:

Well the video touches on the idea that Putin will use his demands to hold the west hostage? 

Is negotiating with the terrorist ever a good idea? You seem convinced that Putin will stop at the Donbas. Which is a huge loss for the viability of Ukraine as an independent nation. 

Folding to Russia because he has nukes would only embolden him. 

AND would encourage China to try to annex Taiwan. 

Putin is a "terrorist" now? Interesting...

You forget...I don't care what happens to Ukraine...as long as the grains keep moving.

You make a lot of assumptions and generally those assumptions have been wrong. What makes you think this one is any different?

China...lol...China's a mess right now. But I'm pretty sure Xi saw the Great Afghani Surrender and knows what Biden's military is capable of.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

Putin is a "terrorist" now? Interesting...

You forget...I don't care what happens to Ukraine...as long as the grains keep moving.

You make a lot of assumptions and generally those assumptions have been wrong. What makes you think this one is any different?

China...lol...China's a mess right now. But I'm pretty sure Xi saw the Great Afghani Surrender and knows what Biden's military is capable of.

He's targeting Civilian infrastructure. What would you call Zelensky if he ordered drone attacks on Moscow? 

[Nationalist]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

He's targeting Civilian infrastructure. What would you call Zelensky if he ordered drone attacks on Moscow? 

Dead?

Look...dropping ordinance on cities is standard fare. Could Zelinsky do that to Moscow, without fear that the response would kill everyone in Ukraine, he'd risk it. That's not a statement of support for anyone, it just a fact. You would do the same in these circumstances. Its standard practice that even the USA and NATO have employed.

[Nationalist]

3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The internet is full of people ranting ignorantly or outright making crap up.  If they're not reliable, why would you reference them?  ? 

You're not legitimately trying to reason with anyone here.  The idea that you're looking at "both sides of the story" is comical at face value given how every ounce of your energy has been spent criticizing everyone except the architect of this invasion.  You've done nothing but parrot his talking points, and you've been unable to support any of your arguments beyond citing propaganda pieces from Russia itself, or their dubious allies. 

You criticize western support for Ukraine vs Russia as "bloodthirsty", but then gleefully point to Russian bombing of Ukrainian cities far from the front lines.  

You tell us how you just want the war to end, but then tell us:

Your position on Russia's invasion of Ukraine is obvious to everyone, and your attempts to dissemble and convince people otherwise are embarrassing.  I don't even know why you try.  There's no serious debate to be had with you if you can't even coherently reconcile your stated position with all of the foolish things you've said that directly contradict it.

Even when someone does try to engage with your seriously (like Army Guy a few pages back), your responses are usually little more than juvenile one-liners.  If you're not going to offer anything more than that, then yes, you're going to continue to get ???, which is as serious a response as your posts deserve.  

 

 

Uhm...ur gonna give urself a heart attack if u carry on like this all the time. Allow me to help.

What you don't realize is that, you're a rank amateur at this. Not only that but, you're perfectly willing to lie about people and spew forth all sorts of angry nonsense. And don't get me started on your gasp of the English language. But...because I did say I'd help...

I reference sources that generally diametrically oppose the MSM story being woven, because I read too many people parroting the NYT or WAPO...or that ridiculous Atlantic rag...claiming something that is simply not true.

Yes...Russia has retreated to the eastern "protectorate". But while you pat yourselves on the back, know that Russia has already amassed a huge force inside that protectorate. I pray now, that the Russians would be satisfied to maintain a stalemate. Yes...at the loss of land from Ukraine. But that region has been at war since the Ukraine was formally formed.

This was the deal being considered back in the summer...and the Ukes knew it was perhaps the only way out of this short of all out destruction...because moonie...this war happens to be IN UKRAINE!

You Libbies love to howl about how Putin is the one who invaded...Not a single one you you have the intellect to realize that it was the right move for Russia, at the time. It still is.

The war IS IN UKRAINE!

But alas...to you, these sentences are nothing more than the parts of a news paper or magazine you don't read...you know...the filler parts you ignore...the details.

So carry on with your clowny faces and screaming platitudes. I'll be here with common sense.

Have a warm and fuzzy day.

[Moonbox]

2 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

What you don't realize is that, you're a rank amateur at this. Not only that but, you're perfectly willing to lie about people and spew forth all sorts of angry nonsense. And don't get me started on your gasp of the English language. But...because I did say I'd help...

As I said, you don't really have much to offer but juvenile insults.  

3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

I reference sources that generally diametrically oppose the MSM story being woven, because I read too many people parroting the NYT or WAPO...or that ridiculous Atlantic rag...claiming something that is simply not true.

You reference Kremlin propaganda sites and outlets backed by Iran/Syria/Hezbollah as your counterpoints, because that's all that you can find to back up your delusions.  You reference them because they're telling you what you want to hear, not because they're saying anything remotely reasonable. 

You've already told us, in your own words, that you want Russia to win and that they were right to invade Ukraine.  

You've proven you know nothing about the region's history.

15 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You Libbies love to howl about how Putin is the one who invaded...Not a single one you you have the intellect to realize that it was the right move for Russia, at the time. It still is.

You're so cluelessly self-deluded that you even believe nonsense like you posted above.  There's no doubt in any reasonable person's mind that Putin would take a mulligan on Ukraine if he could.  The whole thing has blown up spectacularly in his face and Russia is in every way in a much worse position than they were before the invasion.  

The Russian army is in shambles and has done nothing but retreat since the summer.  NATO expansion has accelerated as a result of Putin's aggression, and they now have two new incoming members on their Baltic doorstep.  The Russian economy has contracted this year despite sky-high oil prices, owing to their being closed off from the majority of the import and export markets.  As their foreign currency reserves shrink, this will only get worse.  

These are all facts that you don't have answers for, other than your comical and highly ironic insults about other people's intelligence.  

???

 

 

[Army Guy]

On 12/19/2022 at 7:41 PM, WestCanMan said:

FYI it's not Russians that are saying the Ukrainian soldiers are Nazis. 

It's the Ukrainian soldiers that are saying they are Nazis, and who could possibly say different? They're also getting Nazi tattoos, and wearing Nazi symbols on their uniforms.

If the Anti-Defamation League wants to get into an argument with the Ukrainian soldiers about whether or not they're Nazis they'll lose, because people get to decide for themselves what they believe in. 

This is just another example of you tirelessly trying to believe in your own false narratives, and the false narratives of your favourite liars. You need to grow up and face the actual facts Beave. Your lying and stupidity aren't convincing anyone of anything. 

Well here is Putin saying fight against neo Nazis is going as per plan. Referring to his invasion of Ukraine 

And while we would like to think Russia is free for Nazism, here is a few Russian examples of nazi's...

Note that the Wagner groups second in command, has some very nice tattoo's himself. 

 

[Aristides]

Awesome speech from Zelenskyy to the combined houses today. This guy will go down as one of history's great leaders regardless of how this turns out. The comparison between him and Putin couldn't be more stark. He makes Putin look like like the two bit criminal he is.

[Aristides]

Like Churchill  and unlike Putin, he is an inspirational world leader, Churchill was voted out as soon as the war was won so admiring Zelenskyy now will not necessarily translate into peace time, but even then there is every reason to think he will be a far better man than Putin. It is not hard to see why he told Trump to take a hike.

 

[Aristides]

Russia has earned the hatred of Ukrainians, with or without Zelenskyy.

[Aristides]

Every once in a while someone comes along who is the right person in the right place at the right time. We have the privilege of seeing one of those times. It's really quite remarkable, he must be Putin's worst nightmare.

[Boges]

18 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Dead?

Look...dropping ordinance on cities is standard fare. Could Zelinsky do that to Moscow, without fear that the response would kill everyone in Ukraine, he'd risk it. That's not a statement of support for anyone, it just a fact. You would do the same in these circumstances. Its standard practice that even the USA and NATO have employed.

Putin couldn't kill him every time he's tried so far. 

You seem confident that Putin just sacrificed the lives of tens of thousands of people and scores of valuable equipment just to accomplish he could have done without months of pointless conflict. 

[Aristides]

5 hours ago, Contrarian said:

Like for this comment. The other 2, are Zelenskyan fan points. ? I presented it above the negative effects of his international politics yet because he has your mind, your disregarding all that: He is on my side so might as well ignore what he did in Hungary, Israel, France, banning the German president, dissolving the Supreme Court, etc.

I for one won't ignore it even though a lot of people are high on his charisma. 

The hatred there dates back generations, in the Tsarist Empire of Russia the Ukrainians were viewed as the "Lowest Class" of the empire so they got the stick always.

After the Tsar's crimes, Stalin caused even more death there, this is why Ukraine and Romania made the temporary pact with Adolf Hitler to push the red army back. 

After seeing that Adolf is the same as Joseph, both countries turned their weapons against the German army. 

The hatred is deep there, the Ukrainians want someone strong, decisive, that will not back down.

My view is that Ukraine has its own hardliners which will not hesitate to replace Zelenskyy at the first sign of weakness. He is there because he can talk with a strong voice, he is an actor, he can adapt to any persona, he is well liked by the Western masses meaning Zelenskyy can ask for favours. If is not given what he wants, he can go on Twitter and start pointing the fingers which for some governments it can mean loss of political power. 

If your typical Ukrainian general would be in charge, don't think they would have the same advantages. Is the power of marketing, is why Zelenskyy is being kept there to lead. 

Is laughable to hear these populists claim that Zelenskyy is there in some sort of conspiracy and he controls the Ukrainian people. That's because they might be amateurs in history in that area is my estimation, when hatred gets passed generational from birth, if one were born in Ukraine most likely one would be at the front lines too fighting for the country too due to what the Russians did in those areas historically. 

You have just pointed out that this really is one of those rare occurrences where it is the right man, in the right place, at the right time. He has flaws, everyone does. His country is fighting for its life, not dealing with an occupation of Parliament Hill by some truckers. No one could have more justification for imposing some sort of emergency measures act.

Zelenskyy has been in power for almost four years, he is more than just a wartime leader.

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Well here is Putin saying fight against neo Nazis is going as per plan. Referring to his invasion of Ukraine 

And while we would like to think Russia is free for Nazism, here is a few Russian examples of nazi's...

Note that the Wagner groups second in command, has some very nice tattoo's himself. 

 

I don't have any faith whatsoever in those two sources that you quoted about "Naziism in Russia", and the skinhead in the NM video came right out and called Russia's war "illegal" which just displays his bias right there.

In any event there's definitely not a Nazi battalion in Russia's army, or anyone else's, just Ukraine's.

I'll admit that Nazi is just a word, and you can be worse than a Nazi without hating Jews or doing anything else that's specifically 'Nazi-ish' (islamic state was as bad or worse than Nazis, and they don't affiliate with Naziism), and Russia isn't doing very well on the civil rights scale so whether or not you call them Nazis, they're pretty bad in a lot of ways. Better than Nazi Germany was, and no better or worse than Ukraine.

[Army Guy]

20 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't have any faith whatsoever in those two sources that you quoted about "Naziism in Russia", and the skinhead in the NM video came right out and called Russia's war "illegal" which just displays his bias right there.

In any event there's definitely not a Nazi battalion in Russia's army, or anyone else's, just Ukraine's.

I'll admit that Nazi is just a word, and you can be worse than a Nazi without hating Jews or doing anything else that's specifically 'Nazi-ish' (islamic state was as bad or worse than Nazis, and they don't affiliate with Naziism), and Russia isn't doing very well on the civil rights scale so whether or not you call them Nazis, they're pretty bad in a lot of ways. Better than Nazi Germany was, and no better or worse than Ukraine.

Russia's war is illegal, unless you can show us where in inter national law/ UN charters  that states Russia has the right to use force on any nation it decides. 

Fair enough, but there are thousands of web sites out there that do state with proof that there are many Russian soldiers who practice or believe in NAZI ways. the second in command of Wagner group, has the tats to show everyone where his believes are. 

Your right there is not a NAZI Battalion in the Russian army. just some soldiers that practice Nazi ideals. like most nations have problems with including our own. 

War does not have many rules, and it is brutal beyond believe, life has very little meaning, we living in the western world have no idea just how low "all" humans are capable of going when pushed. Once your at that level it makes little difference if your a Nazi or not.