Nexii Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 7 minutes ago, West said: How many of the vaccinated wouldn't have ended up in hospital without the vaccine or how many unvaccinated wouldn't have ended up in hospital without the vaxx? That's the true value of the vaccine. And to be honest you won't know that answer which makes the argument full of fallacy Actually it can be calculated if you know hospitalization rates by vax status and how many were vaccinated. Assuming 90% vax rate, and 75% of hospitalizations being vaxxed, then if no one was vaxxed there would be 2.5x the total hospitalizations. Which is significantly more but not as much as the media makes it seem to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackbird Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: I know you're hoping for that result as you side with the fascist government. This is not a surprise. Yes, I hope the authorities will end it soon because it is hurting thousands of workers and their families and the economy of Canada is taking a big hit. Also the people of Ottawa have suffered long enough under this tyranny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 Just now, blackbird said: Yes, I hope the authorities will end it soon because it is hurting thousands of workers and their families and the economy of Canada is taking a big hit. Also the people of Ottawa have suffered long enough under this tyranny. And you...you're a man of the people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Nexii said: Actually it can be calculated if you know hospitalization rates by vax status and how many were vaccinated. Assuming 90% vax rate, and 75% of hospitalizations being vaxxed, then if no one was vaxxed there would be 2.5x the total hospitalizations. Which is significantly more but not as much as the media makes it seem to be. But there is a skew though in the statistics as the vast majority of vaccinated at this point likely wouldn't be hospitalized regardless. For example, a sizable 20-30 year old population is now vaccinated to go to university. I doubt much of that population is at significant risk of hospitalization. Pretty much that entire population may feel rough for a few days and get over it. Maybe you could argue that there's a benefit in some population demographics but that's my point. Why is there a need to coerce the entire population into getting a vaccine? Edited February 11, 2022 by West Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexii Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 minute ago, West said: But there is a skew though in the statistics as the vast majority of vaccinated at this point likely wouldn't be hospitalized regardless. For example, a sizable 20-30 year old population is now vaccinated to go to university. I doubt much of that population is at significant risk of hospitalization It does ignore variance in vax by age but there isn't much... if anything older people are vax'd more. On the flip side, vax'ing the last 10% only reduces total hospitalizations by 16%. As they are only a small amount of the total people getting COVID at this point. So you can say that things would be much worse if no one was vaccinated, but vaccinating the rest of the population also won't have much effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 Wellington NZ day 4 vs their fascists... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accountability Now Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 33 minutes ago, blackbird said: Simple math. Ive shown you the simple math. 76% from 80%. Not worthy of a mandate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Nexii said: It does ignore variance in vax by age but there isn't much... if anything older people are vax'd more. On the flip side, vax'ing the last 10% only reduces total hospitalizations by 16%. As they are only a small amount of the total people getting COVID at this point. So you can say that things would be much worse if no one was vaccinated, but vaccinating the rest of the population also won't have much effect. Probably make an argument for vaccinating those most at risk (multiple comorbities) but is there really much benefit in vaccinating the healthy? The vast majority of people who end up in hospital have multiple comorbidies so yes you could say that vaccinating those who are already terminally ill may have a slight impact on covid hospitalizations (though they are likely already involved on multiple occasions with health care in a year regardless) At what expense? The vast majority who SHOULD be vaccinated have already done so voluntarily. What's the point of the pass or cross border mandates anymore? My point is that the true denominator in your analysis shouldn't be the total number vaccinated as the majority aren't going to be hospitalized anyway. Not a true analysis of the impact of the vaccine. Edited February 11, 2022 by West Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) Biden urges Trudeau to use his authority to end the bridge protest. Offers US Federal aid to help remove the protesters. One Country. One People. One Leader. https://nypost.com/2022/02/11/biden-urges-trudeau-to-use-fed-powers-to-end-bridge-blockade/ Edited February 11, 2022 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, West said: What's the point of the pass or cross border mandates anymore? That is a good question I was wondering about myself. Maybe there's a rational explanation after all: it was and is needed as a distraction. See, epidemics management has been grossly inefficient; with draconian measures similar to the most severe in the world, it did not outperform in all provinces Sweden which never had lockdowns or mandates. To keep population from noticing and questioning this record, two old-time tactics used: stick, pumping fear via all available channels, and carrot: promise of an easy however not practically reachable panacea (100% perfect vaccination). A bureaucratic Camelot came true: the drive can go on forever, pandemic benefits and bonuses rolling in, ready carrot and scapegoat to blame because it can never come true. All went so smoothly, the next bright horizon of mandatory boosting was in sight when came the Freedom Convoy and beautiful plan went off the rails. Explains visible frustration if not palpable hate as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexii Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 9 minutes ago, West said: Probably make an argument for vaccinating those most at risk (multiple comorbities) but is there really much benefit in vaccinating the healthy? At what expense? The vast majority who SHOULD be vaccinated have already done so voluntarily. What's the point of the pass or cross border mandates anymore? Well that's another thing. About a 25% of the hospitalizations are those that are under 50. So while it's mostly hitting seniors it's not only hitting the old/vulnerable. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-vax but anti-mandate. I think that a roughly 70% reduction in hospitalization rate should encourage you to go get it. Far worse viruses don't have mandatory vaccination so COVID is being politicized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 16 minutes ago, Accountability Now said: Ive shown you the simple math. 76% from 80%. Not worthy of a mandate It's more like 90%. Children shouldn't be considered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 Looks like someone finally grew a pair. Long past time. https://news.yahoo.com/ontario-state-of-emergency-doug-ford-ottawa-insurrection-windsor-163511470.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Aristides said: Looks like someone finally grew a pair. Long past time. https://news.yahoo.com/ontario-state-of-emergency-doug-ford-ottawa-insurrection-windsor-163511470.html Awesome. I hope they club a few kids and moms where the cameras can see them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 8 minutes ago, Nexii said: Well that's another thing. About a 25% of the hospitalizations are those that are under 50. So while it's mostly hitting seniors it's not only hitting the old/vulnerable. Don't get me wrong, I'm pro-vax but anti-mandate. I think that a roughly 70% reduction in hospitalization rate should encourage you to go get it. Far worse viruses don't have mandatory vaccination so COVID is being politicized. My guess is the majority of the 25% are incidental cases but the government hasn't exactly been upfront when shaping the narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 5 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Awesome. I hope they club a few kids and moms where the cameras can see them. Hiding behind kids again. Kind of says it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 1 minute ago, Aristides said: Hiding behind kids again. Kind of says it all. Luckily there are stern men like you who are willing to get the job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Posted February 11, 2022 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 19 minutes ago, myata said: That is a good question I was wondering about myself. Maybe there's a rational explanation after all: it was and is needed as a distraction. See, epidemics management has been grossly inefficient; with draconian measures similar to the most severe in the world, it did not outperform in all provinces Sweden which never had lockdowns or mandates. To keep population from noticing and questioning this record, two old-time tactics used: stick, pumping fear via all available channels, and carrot: promise of an easy however not practically reachable panacea (100% perfect vaccination). A bureaucratic Camelot came true: the drive can go on forever, pandemic benefits and bonuses rolling in, ready carrot and scapegoat to blame because it can never come true. All went so smoothly, the next bright horizon of mandatory boosting was in sight when came the Freedom Convoy and beautiful plan went off the rails. Explains visible frustration if not palpable hate as well. I think so too. They can blame those dirty unvaccinated for covid spread by skewing statistics and cover for their incompetence. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CITIZEN_2015 Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 Ontario premier also declares state of emergency due to blockages. It is time to use the state of emergencies and arrest and place law breakers to jail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 Just now, CITIZEN_2015 said: Ontario premier also declares state of emergency due to blockages. It is time to use the state of emergencies and arrest and place law breakers to jail. Better yet, The War Measures Act. Then you could arrest everybody that disagrees with Dear Leader and his Junta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 2 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said: Ontario premier also declares state of emergency due to blockages. It is time to use the state of emergencies and arrest and place law breakers to jail. Amusing...Cops and maybe even tow trucks will come along and ticket some...maybe even tow a few. The convoy slush fund will pay the tickets and the towed trucks will quietly be replaced. Doug knows this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Luckily there are stern men like you who are willing to get the job done. And there are always morons who will put their kids in danger and others who hope kids will be injured just to make someone look bad. Besides, if you bothered to read the article you would know the measures being introduced are up to $100,000 fines and confiscation of licenses and trucks. Edited February 11, 2022 by Aristides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 3 minutes ago, DogOnPorch said: Better yet, The War Measures Act. Then you could arrest everybody that disagrees with Dear Leader and his Junta. They ones blocking the border, I hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Nationalist said: Amusing...Cops and maybe even tow trucks will come along and ticket some...maybe even tow a few. The convoy slush fund will pay the tickets and the towed trucks will quietly be replaced. Doug knows this too. Some pundits have suggested slashing the trucker's tires. Unaware, mind you, that 120 psi tires can really mess-up some would-be knife wielding avenger. Edited February 11, 2022 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogOnPorch Posted February 11, 2022 Report Share Posted February 11, 2022 (edited) . Edited February 11, 2022 by DogOnPorch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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