Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Argus]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Math is not your only problem...you don't even understand how mortality rate is calculated.    It is based on confirmed infections cases, not total population.

Oh that. Phht. If you use that as a guide there is a wide variation among advanced western countries, with many over 1% or 2% and some under half a percent. Or even Germany's 0.3%. But that's not the real mortality rate because the reported number of cases varies depending on how many people countries are testing and what kind of standards they set on getting tested. Some US states are testing anyone who shows up at a testing facility. Others are testing those with mild symptoms. Canada is only, for the most part, testing those who have symptoms and have been traveling or in close contact with those traveling. A mistake, in my opinion. But we only have so many tests available as yet.

[scribblet]

 Global News has seen a copy of the legislation that the Liberals will introduce tomorrow giving sweeping new powers to  to tax and spend without Parliamentary approval until 2021.

 

The Emergencies Act exists so governments can act swiftly to counter an emergency. Instead of enacting it, Trudeau and his minority government want to be given the ability to spend without Parliamentary approval. It is an outrageous over reach and exploits the crisis.  Especially considering Trudeau’s irresponsibility with our money up to now. 

[eyeball]

22 minutes ago, scribblet said:

 Global News has seen a copy of the legislation that the Liberals will introduce tomorrow giving sweeping new powers to  to tax and spend without Parliamentary approval until 2021.

The Emergencies Act exists so governments can act swiftly to counter an emergency. Instead of enacting it, Trudeau and his minority government want to be given the ability to spend without Parliamentary approval. It is an outrageous over reach and exploits the crisis.  Especially considering Trudeau’s irresponsibility with our money up to now. 

An election sounds like a good idea alright. Social distancing is a wonderful reason for bringing in online voting and once that's in place there'll be no reason to carry on down that road towards more governance by referenda.

Seriously though I hope the ill-effect of politics first towards this virus and the socioeconomic reaction to it causes a great deal of soul searching leading to reforms in the relationship between the governed and their governments. 

Edited March 23, 2020 by eyeball

[Shady]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Oh man you deserve a real face full of WCM, Shady and Bush Cheney for that.  Trump is an infallible God.

No, no, Trudeau is!  For doing less, much later than Trump. 

[scribblet]

He is over reaching, and since when has giving  sweeping, unchecked power to a government during a time of crisis has never ended poorly has it?

Meanwhile, he wants these powers as he demands we all stay home (and rightly so) but still  he's allowing people to enter the country from highly inflected areas by the planeload, and they are not being screened or forced into quarantine. 

Apart from this, he’s a moron.  We here in Canada would not have such a shortage of supplies  if  Trudeau had not shipped tons of our badly needed medical supplies  to China in February.   

https://globalnews.ca/news/6720551/justin-trudeau-coronavirus-support-bill/

The Canadian Constitution enshrines taxation as a power of the parliamentary branch.

Because of that, granting those powers to the federal cabinet alone is highly unusual – even the Emergency Powers Act does not do so.

[eyeball]

7 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Meanwhile, he wants these powers as he demands we all stay home (and rightly so) but still  he's allowing people to enter the country from highly inflected areas by the planeload, and they are not being screened or forced into quarantine.

Some are nonetheless going into quarantine. As I said earlier I have a friend who is flying in from Thailand today and we have prepared and outfitted his boat which also doubles as his home, with the supplies he'll need for the duration of his quarantine.  He is getting off the plane going straight to his truck and then straight to his boat. 

Are you of the opinion that Canadians are unable to comply with social distancing on their own without being strong-armed by the authorities?

Edited March 23, 2020 by eyeball

[scribblet]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 Are you of the opinion that Canadians are unable to comply with social distancing on their own without being strong-armed by the authorities?

Many are not complying, if you think that the thousands who have gotten off planes in the last few weeks self quarantined I'll bet they haven't. 

Martial law is coming in the proposed legislation which I think is needed to some extent to keep people safe as they are not complying, however, the proposal is more than that.   All we need are powers to keep people in quarantine and immediately close down the airport except for essential goods. 

https://globalnews.ca/news/6720551/justin-trudeau-coronavirus-support-bill/

The Canadian Constitution enshrines taxation as a power of the parliamentary branch.

Because of that, granting those powers to the federal cabinet alone is highly unusual – even the Emergency Powers Act does not do so.

[Shady]

I can only imagine if Trump did this.

 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 hours ago, Rue said:

Different reporting. The mortality rate is pretty much the same with reported cases everywhere.

 

No...that is not the case at all.    Different nations have different mortality rates.

 

https://www.cebm.net/global-covid-19-case-fatality-rates/

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, scribblet said:

Many are not complying, if you think that the thousands who have gotten off planes in the last few weeks self quarantined I'll bet they haven't. 

You need to quantify that instead of simply betting. I know a number of people who've returned from being overseas, Mexico, the US etc and all have been more than willing and even happy to go home and stay there.  I mean good grief, the government is telling people to stay home and basically kick back and take a load off for another couple weeks and very likely a paid or otherwise economically smoothed over couple weeks. How freaking hard can it be and why?

I'll bet the vast majority of the thousands are complying just as soon as humanly possible along with taking every social distancing step required along the way.  Have a little more faith for Christ's sake.

Quote

Martial law is coming in the proposed legislation which I think is needed to some extent to keep people safe as they are not complying, however, the proposal is more than that.   All we need are powers to keep people in quarantine and immediately close down the airport except for essential goods.

You know what we really need in the event of martial law? Provisions that make officials liable for overstepping or abusing the power being given to them.  I'm about as mistrustful of governments not complying with the law as you are of the governed, especially given how strongly politics is coming first in so many national leader's handling of this crisis.

Edited March 24, 2020 by eyeball

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

No...that is not the case at all.    Different nations have different mortality rates.

With the ones cocking up their handling of things doing worse.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

I can only imagine if Trump did this.

FWIW I agree.  If we are really going to concentrate power at that level, we should get a unity government.

[Army Guy]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

Some are nonetheless going into quarantine. As I said earlier I have a friend who is flying in from Thailand today and we have prepared and outfitted his boat which also doubles as his home, with the supplies he'll need for the duration of his quarantine.  He is getting off the plane going straight to his truck and then straight to his boat. 

Are you of the opinion that Canadians are unable to comply with social distancing on their own without being strong-armed by the authorities?

Yes, very much so....when 300,000 people decide traveling on march break thinking it is a good thing , after our PM had asked for everyone on vacation to return ASAP, then a couple days later telling those same people that they are looking into closing borders....of course there is the beach's in both BC and the Maritimes loaded with people having picnics and sun tanning, because they are off work....suppose to be home in isolation....not to mention doing the same at parks and play grounds, parents still arranging play dates with other kids,  kids are walking virus machines...

Most of us are at home, but there are those few that need to have there hand held and told what to do, incapable of a single thought for others....I mean we were told to go home, stay home not to go out unless it was for food, or medicine, or to see a doctor....how much simpler can you make it....you can't teach stupid....your born with it...

[scribblet]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

...

I'll bet the vast majority of the thousands are complying just as soon as humanly possible along with taking every social distancing step required along the way.  Have a little more faith for Christ's sake.

You know what we really need in the event of martial law? Provisions that make officials liable for overstepping or abusing the power being given to them.  I'm about as mistrustful of governments not complying with the law as you are of the governed, especially given how strongly politics is coming first in so many national leader's handling of this crisis.

There's an article today in our local paper about a guy admitting he has not abided by quarantine,  know some snowbirds who haven't immediately isolated, they did their shopping first.  don't kid yourself people are selfish idiots.  people where out in the parks and down at the Toronto beaches, so yeah...

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

We can play coulda shoulda woulda all we want and especially in hindsight.  I don't think there is a political leader in the entire world that hasn't cocked something up in their handling of this crisis including Trudeau, he should have come home from his overseas trip sooner and in hindsight sure, I think he should have closed the borders sooner. In hindsight however assuming I'm allowed to do that too, the effect and difference on the ground between Trump's actions and Trudeau's inaction don't suggest either of these really mattered as much as subsequent actions such as scorning testing or running around blaming the opposition for causing a panic.  You still haven't answered by the way if you think that leaders who don't blame the opposition for something are failing their country.  You do think it was wise for Trump to do so don't you - you support him 110% on that right?

Whatever the timing, I don't know if Trudeau didn't take action because his family was affected and neither do you. You're just assuming he did and in doing so you're completely ignoring the fact that anyone else on the planet who lives in a household with a family member who tests positive is expected to quarantine themselves as well.  Can you imagine how freaked out and horrified you'd be if Trudeau just kept walking around in public?  What you're doing is precisely what I'll be looking for when experts investigate how blind unremitting partisanship helped to spread COVID-19. Your entire shtick of putting politics first is just so fucked up beyond any and all recognition its a clear and present danger to the health and well being of people around you - putting politics first is exactly what I expect from politicians but not you not as far as Trump goes.

BTW has Trump make any mistake you're aware of or has everything he's done been as perfect and flawless as his letter?

The whole point of this thread is that 1) Trump has done a better job of this than Trudeau 2) Trump has been criticized for doing things which, with the benefit of hindsight, turned out to be the right move 3) Trudeau didn’t get criticized at all by his bought-and-paid-for media when he didn’t block direct flights from China, or when he flip-flopped 180 degrees within 3 days on whether or not banning travel was a thing 4) Canadians who are nit-picking Trump for minir details are giving Trudeau a pass for making mistakes that will eventually cost Canadian lives, if experts are correct. 
 

That’s it. 

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Okay. Good thing we have provinces that came to it. You're saying they/we all shoulda coulda waited until our glorious leader speaks up? Why? I thought you people wanted Canadians to be more self-reliant and less dependent on having their governments, especially federal and especially Liberal, telling them what to do and how to live their lives.

Just because you need to hear something that's obvious from the PM's mouth doesn't mean the rest of do.  

So now your answer is that the provinces shoulda done it if Trudeau was too stupid? FYI international airports are the territory of Transport Canada. Do you think the provinces have the power to ban flights from China??????

[Yzermandius19]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Trump derangement syndrome is based on making a huge deal about things that aren’t true. 
 

Nothing that I have said about Trudeau is false or misleading. 
 

Dude you be grasping at straws all the time to attack Trudeau, you have Trudeau Derangement Syndrome nearly as bad as Trump Haters have Trump Derangement Syndrome. If you didn't have it, you'd be focusing on the best Anti-Trudeau material instead of throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him hoping it will stick, just like the Trump Haters do to Trump.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[WestCanMan]

29 minutes ago, Yzermandius19 said:

Dude you be grasping at straws all the time to attack Trudeau, you have Trudeau Derangement Syndrome nearly as bad as Trump Haters have Trump Derangement Syndrome. If you didn't have it, you'd be focusing on the best Anti-Trudeau material instead of throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him hoping it will stick, just like the Trump Haters do to Trump.

I don't have to grasp at straws to "attack" Trudeau, he does something stupid every day, but you must be able to provide an example of that then?

I've accused Trudeau of being a traitor for letting islamic state terrorists back into Canada and referring to them as "fighters" instead of terrorists. That's my most sensational claim to date, but it's hardly inaccurate. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by WestCanMan

[Yzermandius19]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't have to grasp at straws to "attack" Trudeau

You don't have to, yet you do, hence Trudeau Derangement Syndrome. The Trump Haters don't have to grasp at straws to attack Trump, yet they do, hence Trump Derangement Syndrome. Don't be like the Trump Haters and pretend you have no bias and are just judging Trump based on non-partisan objectivity, except with Trudeau, pro tip.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19

[Moonlight Graham]

8 hours ago, Argus said:

Hmm. Maybe you should do the math yourself. I don't think you did it right the first time. US rate appears to be more than double ours.

As of March 23:

US death rate:  1.20%

Canada death rate:  1.46%

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/cases-in-us.html

https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?topic=tilelink#a1

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Yes, very much so....when 300,000 people decide traveling on march break thinking it is a good thing , after our PM had asked for everyone on vacation to return ASAP, then a couple days later telling those same people that they are looking into closing borders....of course there is the beach's in both BC and the Maritimes loaded with people having picnics and sun tanning, because they are off work....suppose to be home in isolation....not to mention doing the same at parks and play grounds, parents still arranging play dates with other kids,  kids are walking virus machines...

I'm in a region where the beaches should be crawling right now and I should be heading out with boatload after boatload of tourists.  Our rental was fully booked weather has been fantastic the sea is flat like a lake and I saw four different species of whale on my last trip...with barely a handful of people spread around a 60 foot vessel made to carry 45 people.

Poof its all gone just like that. I took a 15 minute drive into town today and it was ten minutes before I saw another soul.

Quote

Most of us are at home, but there are those few that need to have there hand held and told what to do, incapable of a single thought for others....I mean we were told to go home, stay home not to go out unless it was for food, or medicine, or to see a doctor....how much simpler can you make it....you can't teach stupid....your born with it...

Yes that's what I said most of us are at home complying, doing the right thing. I don't know where these 300000 are that you're talking about because there sure not here. My son spent 5 hours driving home today and only saw an occasional service or delivery truck.  You really think we need to do something more forceful like...increase the military presence in our cities?

Canadian cities. Soldiers with guns. In our cities. In Canada.

 Sorry but I just had to throw that in there.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, scribblet said:

There's an article today in our local paper about a guy admitting he has not abided by quarantine,  know some snowbirds who haven't immediately isolated, they did their shopping first.  don't kid yourself people are selfish idiots.  people where out in the parks and down at the Toronto beaches, so yeah...

One guy plus how many snowbirds? I mean I get it what you're talking about but I still think the vast majority of Canadians are doing the right thing and to such an extent that we can justifiably thank ourselves for much of Canada's apparent success at grappling with this a little more effectively than other countries have. I attribute more public willingness to that success and less to our government's efforts actually.

Our company voluntarily shut down over a week ago and I've matched the effort of local resorts who kicked their guests out by blocking off our Airbnb.  There really are a lot less idiots out there I think and the ones who are stupid usually stand out well enough they can be avoided.

I guess its just easier in a small town and thinly populated region. Oh well, you can always call out the soldiers I guess.

Edited March 24, 2020 by eyeball

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

So now your answer is that the provinces shoulda done it if Trudeau was too stupid?

No my answer was that is was a good thing we have provinces that came to the conclusion social distancing was a good idea.  Would you please stop inserting your own meanings to my words.  It's a really ignorant thing to do.

Quote

FYI international airports are the territory of Transport Canada.

Yes I'm well aware of who is responsible for International airports in Canada.

Quote

Do you think the provinces have the power to ban flights from China?????

No. Did you imagine I said that too?

Exactly why the fuck do you do you use your imagination that way anyhow?

 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

You don't have to, yet you do, hence Trudeau Derangement Syndrome. The Trump Haters don't have to grasp at straws to attack Trump, yet they do, hence Trump Derangement Syndrome. Don't be like the Trump Haters and pretend you have no bias and are just judging Trump based on non-partisan objectivity, except with Trudeau, pro tip.

Nothing that I have ever criticized Trudeau for was false dude. 

There's no "He said that there were more people at his inauguration" bs, or "Trudeau colluded with Russia!!!!" "Ooooh he asked the Ukrainians to investigate an actual crime, that's so bad!!!!!" 

Trudeau is a worthless piece of crap who's destroying our economy, racking up mounds of debt, he doesn't stand for any of the right things, and he's dividing the country like no other PM before. 

If you think Trudeau is just fine that's no surprise, the MSM backs him like he brought the country from poverty, famine, pestilence, plague and war to the promised land. Lots of people think he can do no wrong. He won a federal election for cryin' out loud.

Just don't compare me to drooling idiots who think that "17 errors and omissions by the FBI is no big d, collusion was PROVEN!" 

[Yzermandius19]

2 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Nothing that I have ever criticized Trudeau for was false dude. 

Overreacting to unimportant shit counts as well. You might think otherwise, but you are blinded by hatred of the man, if you acknowledged your bias instead of ignoring it like it doesn't exist, you'd stick more to the better critiques and wouldn't be grasping at straws as often.

Put down the kitchen sink, stop throwing anything you can against the wall, and use the good ammo. Or you are simply empowering Trudeau like Democrats empower Trump with the same counter-productive strategy, pro tip.

Edited March 24, 2020 by Yzermandius19