Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Zeitgeist]

17 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

1) That article is from a state-owned broadcaster with no more credibility than Tass or AL Jazeera. Check the top left corner. 

2) From the article: "While every expert agreed the U.S. government flubbed its early response to the pandemic, most said the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump was just one element in the bigger story." There's a jab at Trump, but CBC doesn't mention the complete failure of "The Chosen One" to take any action at all before March 16th. 

3) I don't have much doubt about what kind of "experts" they chose. Dr Tam is still widely-respected in Canada and I think you'd agree that her advice was basically to leave Canada open to travel from covid hotspots and tell people not to wear masks, turning Canada into a huge Petri dish. 

4) The chart which excludes NY, NJ and CT is probably too truthful and hurts their position quite a bit, in their effort to undermine the efforts of the US.

5) The fact that the US has 8x Canada's population density wasn't even mentioned. Canadians social distance naturally by virtue of our geography. It would take actual effort to spread covid far and wide here. 

6) "Trump was quicker in some aspects of his response than the Canadian government. He limited travel much earlier and promoted the use of masks earlier." They're acknowledging Trump did the two main things before Trudeau, but like I said, every country on earth got the jump on us. 

 

Read all official stats, including the Worldometer.   We saw the federal press and health briefings of both governments.  Where to begin with your suspicion and partisanship?  It’s almost superstition.  Also, the US has 9 times Canada’s population, not 8 times. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

Yes, but only Trump is blamed.  Other countries and other leaders in similar positions continue to get off Scott free.

They do not. I've routinely blasted Xi Jinping right from the beginning for his hand in making things worse. Of course you can't wait to start selling Jinping as much oil ASAP which will effectively be giving him the freedom to continue doing as he pleases.

Just whose side are you on anyway?

[WestCanMan]

4 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 Hate to break it to you bud but the Lincoln Project ad was created by Republicans.

So? Do they control Schiff's lying lips? Pelosi's? Nadler's? 

The impetus behind the newest impeachment sham is from the same group of drooling idiots as every other impeachment sham in the last decade. 

 

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

So? Do they control Schiff's lying lips? Pelosi's? Nadler's?

I have no idea nor do I care. You've never gotten that have you?

[Shady]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They do not. I've routinely blasted Xi Jinping right from the beginning for his hand in making things worse. Of course you can't wait to start selling Jinping as much oil ASAP which will effectively be giving him the freedom to continue doing as he pleases.

Just whose side are you on anyway?

I’m referring to Trudeau.  Where’s your criticism of him?  It’s just crickets from you.

Regardless, yes I’d sell oil to China.  The dealer always has more power than the addict.

[WestCanMan]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Read all official stats, including the Worldometer.   Where to begin with your suspicion and partisanship?  It’s almost superstition.  

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? 

It's really easy to cherry pick stats which are misleading. 1/9th of Canada's population rides the NYC subway system every day. The population density of the US is 8x what ours is. You'd have to spread the American population over the entire land masses of North America, South America and Europe to even out our population density differential. The stats don't compare in a straight line.

You could compare the stats for the spread of aids in large cities vs small-town America and say that "preventative measures in the small towns are better!!!!" and that would be just as useful as this skewed covid comprison which you rely on. 

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? Let's go zg.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

I’m referring to Trudeau.  Where’s your criticism of him?  It’s just crickets from you.

I cancelled Trudeau's benefit of the doubt within days of his 1st election victory when he failed to cancel the Saudi/LAV deal which I strongly suspect you cheered. 

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have no idea nor do I care. You've never gotten that have you?

I totally understand that you have no idea, I knew that long ago, but you obviously care or you wouldn't keep lying. 

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? 

It's really easy to cherry pick stats which are misleading. 1/9th of Canada's population rides the NYC subway system every day. The population density of the US is 8x what ours is. You'd have to spread the American population over the entire land masses of North America, South America and Europe to even out our population density differential. The stats don't compare in a straight line.

You could compare the stats for the spread of aids in large cities vs small-town America and say that "preventative measures in the small towns are better!!!!" and that would be just as useful as this skewed covid comprison which you rely on. 

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? Let's go zg.

Not true.  Most of Canada’s population is huddled in the south.  Other than NYC, our major cities are just as dense as US major cities, and cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are denser than many US western and southern cities.  Vancouver is a high density city, yet look at how BC flattened the curve after a bad initial outbreak. 

Edited May 6, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I totally understand that you have no idea, I knew that long ago, but you obviously care or you wouldn't keep lying. 

You're the one with the idea.  What I do care about though is the means by which you think Pelosi's lips are controlled.  Is it like with strings or something more subtle like telepathy or mind -controlling rays?  You do realize you just suggested it's Republicans that are controlling Pelosi right?

What lie BTW? You're saying the Lincoln Project is a left-wing PAC?  Careful now, this will like the time you wrote Charles Koch and the CATO Institute are left-wing. Stay away from the corner, you know it always turns out bad for you in there.

Edited May 6, 2020 by eyeball

[eyeball]

21 minutes ago, Shady said:

Regardless, yes I’d sell oil to China.  The dealer always has more power than the addict.

Until another dealer comes along. Take your buddies in Saudi Arabia for example.

Edited May 6, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

40 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Not true.  Most of Canada’s population is huddled in the south.  Other than NYC, our major cities are just as dense as US major cities, and cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal are denser than many US western and southern cities.  Vancouver is a high density city, yet look at how BC flattened the curve after a bad initial outbreak. 

Here's what's true: Our population density is not comparable to America's pop density. Period.

 

You have no real reason to assume that Canada would have better covid stats than America, do you? Anyone with half a brain can see from this map that a virus would rather reside in the eastern half of the US than anywhere in Canada. 

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? Surely your insistence that Canada did more to fight covid is predicated on more than one misleading stat? Can you name one action? Just one?

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

You're the one with the idea.  What I do care about though is the means by which you think Pelosi's lips are controlled.  Is it like with strings or something more subtle like telepathy or mind -controlling rays?  You do realize you just suggested it's Republicans that are controlling Pelosi right?

What lie BTW? You're saying the Lincoln Project is a left-wing PAC?  Careful now, this will like the time you wrote Charles Koch and the CATO Institute are left-wing. Stay away from the corner, you know it always turns out bad for you in there.

My conversation with you today goes back to this:

Quote

Only because Trump and people like you insist on making it the main topic.

The reason why this is "the main topic" in this thread is that people who want to protect Trudeau, but know that they can't cite any direct action that he took, like to compare Canada's low death toll to that of "The US", which is basically a factor of what the virus did "in and around NYC's subway system, and in the surrounding densely populated areas." It's bullshit as a straight comp.

If the US [with 8x our pop density] is a fair comparison to Canada, then Mongolia [with 1/2 our population density] is a fair comparison to Canada, right?

Canada is 187th on the list of countries on earth by population density. By population we are 39th. By covid deaths were are 12th in the world. 

The population density of the countries ahead of us isn't even close. Russia 2x, Brazil 6x, Iran 7x, US 8x, Spain 24x, Turkey 27x, France 30x, China 40x, Italy 50x, Germany 58x, UK 70x. 

 

Russia, with double our pop density and 3x our population has 2,000 less covid deaths than Canada and they have 4,000 km of border with China. Iran has 81M people, and most of their country is uninhabited like Canada.  

The closer you look at Canada's covid stats, the more it becomes blatantly obvious that Trudeau and Dr Tam completely failed Canada.

FYI this thread is about Trudeau's blatant failure to do anything to stop covid until March 16th, and Trudeau did nothing, period.

Not one single person has managed to step up and point out an action that Trudeau took to slow down the progress of the virus within Canada before March 16th. In all honesty, the debate is over right at the point where people can't name a single useful thing that Trudeau did, because doing nothing useful - when there were plenty of useful things that he could/should have been doing - is the definition of failure. Period.

 

Edited May 6, 2020 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

Not one single person has managed to step up and point out an action that Trudeau took to slow down the progress of the virus within Canada before March 16th.

In all honesty, the debate about whether or not Trudeau failed us is over right at the point where people can't name a single useful thing that he did, because doing nothing useful - when there were plenty of useful things that he could/should have been doing - is the definition of failure. Period.

Edited May 6, 2020 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

Canada is 187th on the list of countries on earth by population density. By population we are 39th. By covid deaths were are 12th in the world.

[Right To Left]

7 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Canada is 187th on the list of countries on earth by population density. By population we are 39th. By covid deaths were are 12th in the world.

Compared with what we got on our southern border, indecisive JT is going to come off looking like a genius no matter what he does!

[Right To Left]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Here's what's true: Our population density is not comparable to America's pop density. Period.

 

You have no real reason to assume that Canada would have better covid stats than America, do you? Anyone with half a brain can see from this map that a virus would rather reside in the eastern half of the US than anywhere in Canada. 

If you think that Canada's covid response was better than America's then surely you have some type of action we took that you could point to? Surely your insistence that Canada did more to fight covid is predicated on more than one misleading stat? Can you name one action? Just one?

Actually, we do!  Because 90% of Canada's population lives within 150 miles of the US border, and are living in mostly cities and suburbs of major cities. You might also want to consider recent findings that the biggest growth in Covid-19 infections and deaths in America are happening in rural areas in southern and mid-western states.

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

Compared with what we got on our southern border, indecisive JT is going to come off looking like a genius no matter what he does!

Jt is a complete idiot, and he still looks and stammers like an idiot.

For your edification RtL, there are people who want to convince you that our situation is somehow comparable to an 800 sq km region of the US with 1/4 of our population and 13,500x our population density. Don't listen to them. They are idiots and propagandists. 

 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Right To Left said:

Actually, we do!  Because 90% of Canada's population lives within 150 miles of the US border, and are living in mostly cities and suburbs of major cities. You might also want to consider recent findings that the biggest growth in Covid-19 infections and deaths in America are happening in rural areas in southern and mid-western states.

The southern US Canada border is 3,500 miles long you dolt. 150 miles x 3,500 miles is 525,000 square miles. If that was all of Canada, that would still make Canada one of the world's top 20 largest countries, and there would only be 34M people in that whole area (by your own estimate of .9 of our population). There are 33M people in just the NYC MSA and the LA MSA. 

So in short, you're saying that the most densely populated 525,000 square MILES of Canada has almost the exact same population as two US metropolitan areas, and you think you just had a GOTCHA moment lol.

You just have no clue wTF you're talking about dude. I'd have an easier time explaining this to a 12 year old who has yet to be indoctrinated with Liberal propaganda.

Edited May 6, 2020 by WestCanMan
southern border is only ~ 3,500 Miles the 5,500 I cited earlier includes Alaska

[Shady]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

The southern US Canada border is 3,500 miles long you dolt. 150 miles x 3,500 miles is 525,000 square miles. If that was all of Canada, that would still make Canada one of the world's top 20 largest countries, and there would only be 34M people in that whole area (by your own estimate of .9 of our population). There are 33M people in just the NYC MSA and the LA MSA. 

So in short, you're saying that the most densely populated 525,000 square MILES of Canada has almost the exact same population as two US metropolitan areas, and you think you just had a GOTCHA moment lol.

You just have no clue wTF you're talking about dude. I'd have an easier time explaining this to a 12 year old who has yet to be indoctrinated with Liberal propaganda.

Idiots will continue to be idiots all because of Trump.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

My conversation with you today goes back to this:

The reason why this is "the main topic" in this thread is that people who want to protect Trudeau, but know that they can't cite any direct action that he took, like to compare Canada's low death toll to that of "The US", which is basically a factor of what the virus did "in and around NYC's subway system, and in the surrounding densely populated areas." It's bullshit as a straight comp.

If the US [with 8x our pop density] is a fair comparison to Canada, then Mongolia [with 1/2 our population density] is a fair comparison to Canada, right?

Canada is 187th on the list of countries on earth by population density. By population we are 39th. By covid deaths were are 12th in the world. 

The population density of the countries ahead of us isn't even close. Russia 2x, Brazil 6x, Iran 7x, US 8x, Spain 24x, Turkey 27x, France 30x, China 40x, Italy 50x, Germany 58x, UK 70x. 

 

Russia, with double our pop density and 3x our population has 2,000 less covid deaths than Canada and they have 4,000 km of border with China. Iran has 81M people, and most of their country is uninhabited like Canada.  

The closer you look at Canada's covid stats, the more it becomes blatantly obvious that Trudeau and Dr Tam completely failed Canada.

FYI this thread is about Trudeau's blatant failure to do anything to stop covid until March 16th, and Trudeau did nothing, period.

Not one single person has managed to step up and point out an action that Trudeau took to slow down the progress of the virus within Canada before March 16th. In all honesty, the debate is over right at the point where people can't name a single useful thing that Trudeau did, because doing nothing useful - when there were plenty of useful things that he could/should have been doing - is the definition of failure. Period.

 

You're calculating land mass divided by population, which is an absurd way of measuring the density of the settlements where most Canadians live, which are mostly in the south.  The Quebec-Windsor Corridor contains over half the country's population, which is a narrow band running along southern Ontario and Quebec.  I'm tired of explaining.  The message from federal health, with the full support of the PM, was clear, firm, and nationwide from early-mid-March.  It doesn't matter.  For you it's about presenting your president (I assume you're American) in a positive light.  I'm not sure why.  I'm not a Trudeau fan and I don't say what I've said for him.   I haven't seen a strong and clear federal messaging campaign from the U.S. feds like I've seen from our feds.  I've seen it at the state level.  I haven't heard Trudeau recommend untested medications or talk about the virus miraculously disappearing.  Trudeau and Tam's press conferences were clear.  There was a pivot on masks, but there were arguments for slowing the rush on masks and reminding people that they are of limited effectiveness.  U.S. federal leadership aren't donning masks, so you can't cling to that.  U.S. feds were caught short on testing.  Trump's selective travel ban was a decent measure.  By March 12 we had a plan for provincial school closures, messaging on non-essential travel, guidelines for social distancing.  The federal messaging became intensive.  Trudeau wasn't great, but he didn't downplay or speak on matters where he lacked expertise.  He kept it sober and knew when to move to the background.  Trump tended to get into politics during crisis briefings and send confusing messages.  Those are the big differences.  Beyond that you have to look at provinces' and states' individual responses.  Below is a clip of Trump's back and forths.  Below that is a clip of Trudeau on March 4 basically telling you that he's going to take his cues from science and experts, which is what continues to be needed.

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You're calculating land mass divided by population, which is an absurd way of measuring the density of the settlements where most Canadians live, which are mostly in the south.  The Quebec-Windsor Corridor contains over half the country's population, which is a narrow band running along southern Ontario and Quebec.  I'm tired of explaining.  The message from federal health, with the full support of the PM, was clear, firm, and nationwide from early-mid-March.  It doesn't matter.  For you it's about presenting your president (I assume you're American) in a positive light.  I'm not sure why.  I'm not a Trudeau fan and I don't say what I've said for him.   I haven't seen a strong and clear federal messaging campaign from the U.S. feds like I've seen from our feds.  I've seen it at the state level.  I haven't heard Trudeau recommend untested medications or talk about the virus miraculously disappearing.  Trudeau and Tam's press conferences were clear.  There was a pivot on masks, but there were arguments for slowing the rush on masks and reminding people that they are of limited effectiveness.  U.S. federal leadership aren't donning masks, so you can't cling to that.  U.S. feds were caught short on testing.  Trump's selective travel ban was a decent measure.  By March 12 we had a plan for provincial school closures, messaging on non-essential travel, guidelines for social distancing.  The federal messaging became intensive.  Trudeau wasn't great, but he didn't downplay or speak on matters where he lacked expertise.  He kept it sober and knew when to move to the background.  Trump tended to get into politics during crisis briefings and send confusing messages.  Those are the big differences.  Beyond that you have to look at provinces' and states' individual responses.  Below is a clip of Trump's back and forths.  Below that is a clip of Trudeau on March 4 basically telling you that he's going to take his cues from science and experts, which is what continues to be needed.

 

I still don’t see where you made mention of a useful policy enacted by Trudeau before March 16th dude. 
You babble about unimportant things, and in the end, you’ve said nothing useful. 

Trudeau Tam were wrong about banning travel, wrong about masks, they were way behind at every stage. They were actually more detrimental than useless, because they actively discouraged masks. 
 

WTF did Trudeau do that was useful to Canadians? Just say it. Don’t talk about anything else, just convince me that he wasn’t worse than useless. To date you haven’t said a thing. Say a specific thing or admit that he killed Canadians with his TOTAL uselessness. 

[eyeball]

7 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

My conversation with you today goes back to this:

It just goes round and round no matter when in time you pick so...

Quote

Not one single person has managed to step up and point out an action that Trudeau took to slow down the progress of the virus within Canada before March 16th. In all honesty, the debate is over right at the point where people can't name a single useful thing that Trudeau did, because doing nothing useful - when there were plenty of useful things that he could/should have been doing - is the definition of failure. Period.

I'm pretty sure it was pointed out weeks ago that the most useful thing Trudeau did to slow down the progress of the virus was to mostly stay out of the way of the experts and scientists and largely leave it to provincial health systems and their experts. The very worst thing Trudeau could have done is behave like Trump.

Trudeau also gets a much better mark for getting money into Canadians hands in pretty timely manner but I do wish he'd given front line workers a tax holiday to offset their extra effort and to help keep them motivated. I can't help but wonder if much of the impetus behind the frustration to jump the economic gun in the US is that Trump failed to get enough money into the hands of ordinary Americans soon enough to make the difference.  Pretty easy to browbeat people into risking further disaster when they're already half-starved into submission.

I know that makes your head explode but it is what it is. Aside from speaking moistly Trudeau didn't fail us at all.

And no I have no intention whatsoever of voting for him.  I can't stand the fact he hasn't cancelled the LAV contract with Saudi Arabia and he wants to sell oil to China.

Edited May 7, 2020 by eyeball

[Shady]

Nothing to see here.

The proportion of COVID-19 deaths in long-term care was measured in 14 countries. Canada had the worst record

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/05/06/the-proportion-of-covid-19-deaths-in-long-term-care-was-measured-in-14-countries-canada-had-the-worst-record.html

[Boges]

14 minutes ago, Shady said:

Nothing to see here.

The proportion of COVID-19 deaths in long-term care was measured in 14 countries. Canada had the worst record

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/05/06/the-proportion-of-covid-19-deaths-in-long-term-care-was-measured-in-14-countries-canada-had-the-worst-record.html

You're posting an article behind the Star's Paywall. So I can't really see how the study was done. 

The problems with Long-term homes is obvious. But it also speaks to the idea that community spread in Canada isn't all that bad. 3/4 of the deaths in Ontario are from LTC home. 

That's people over 80 that essentially went there to die. It's tragic and sad, but it's a manageable threat, unlike if people were getting this disease in scores from going out on a walk.