Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[WestCanMan]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Okay but you're the doofus that apparently thinks California is in LA.

Your abysmal reading comprehension is actually one of your strong suits.

[Infidel Dog]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

The main touted response being Trump's so-called travel ban that never happened. Thousands of planes and well over a million people poured into the US thru a screening process as lax as just about any other country around the planet including our's.

If you expect any respect for anything you put forth as evidence you need to stop putting something that never happened at the top of the pile.

Like I said figures lie and liars figure.

I can only speak for myself and the specific category I spoke of was titled "Implementing travel restrictions." A restriction is not necessarily an outright ban.

Restrictions most certainly did happen. Canada lagged behind the US on them and they were not the only response to the virus where that was the case.

As told to you 3 times now without being given any truthful, coherent or relevant reason to doubt the veracity of the specific information, there are more here:

https://tnc.news/2020/04/01/trudeau-trailed-behind-trump-by-days-and-even-weeks-in-coronavirus-response/

I'll tell you what though, if you're having problems with that one let's try the Edmonton Journal:

They tell us that on March 13 Justin said this:

Quote

“We will recall that a number of weeks ago in the beginnings there was discussion of whether or not we should entirely close our borders to China the way the United States did. We did not." 

Then on March 16 this happened:

Quote

The federal government changes direction abruptly, with Canada closing its doors to the world by severely restricting international flights. The federal government advises all returning Canadians entering home to voluntarily self-isolate for 14 days. Prime Minister Trudeau also says all international visitors to Canada will be turned around at the airport, with the exception of Americans, diplomats and flight crews.

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/national/the-road-to-canadas-covid-19-outbreak-pt-3-timeline-of-federal-government-failure-at-border-to-slow-the-virus/

So were there "travel restrictions?" Yes there were. Did Canada's lag behind America's? Yes they did.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Infidel Dog

[Zeitgeist]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

I can only speak for myself and the specific category I spoke of was titled "Implementing travel restrictions." A restriction is not necessarily an outright ban.

Restrictions most certainly did happen. Canada lagged behind the US on them and they were not the only response to the virus where that was the case.

As told to you 3 times now without being given any truthful, coherent or relevant reason to doubt the veracity of the specific information, there are more here:

https://tnc.news/2020/04/01/trudeau-trailed-behind-trump-by-days-and-even-weeks-in-coronavirus-response/

I'll tell you what though, if you're having problems with that one let's try the Edmonton Journal:

They tell us that on March 13 Justin said this:

Then on March 16 this happened:

https://edmontonjournal.com/news/national/the-road-to-canadas-covid-19-outbreak-pt-3-timeline-of-federal-government-failure-at-border-to-slow-the-virus/

So were there "travel restrictions?" Yes there were. Did Canada's lag behind America's? Yes they did.

Did the selective restrictions help?  Probably.  I didn't understand why Canada didn't impose them on Iran and China.  The attempt to make it a universal travel ban in the name of some absurd extreme of political correctness about race is the hallmark of everything foolish about Trudeau: the identity politics and his effusive, barely credible feminism.  Those traits have undermined Trudeau as much as Trump's jingoism towards Mexico and Muslims has hurt his presidency.  On letting the scientists lead and knowing when to step back, Trudeau trumps Trump.  We've had better clarity, consistency, and strength of message in our federal government's approach to public health. 

You can look at the exceptional density of NYC, which is a big factor in US case numbers, but so was the density in centres like Montreal.  It's one of the reasons why we can't really compare Manitoba or even Texas to places like the most populous north-eastern states and central Canadian provinces.  California has done well, but its major cities sprawl more widely than our biggest cities in central Canada or the north-eastern states.

Travel bans are still problematic and may not really be the issue leading to greater spread once the virus has already touched down in North America, as it likely did back in December, when a travel ban wouldn't have been accepted by the public.  Public health policy is number one, the amount of testing, the contact tracing, the social distancing, and self-quarantining.  Canada was relatively strong on testing and both the messaging and public policy on social distancing and self-quarantining, including closures of schools and businesses. 

[Infidel Dog]

Canada also lagged behind here:

Quote

Implementing public health screenings at airports for travellers coming from Wuhan:

January 17 – (US) The CDC implements public health screening at 3 major U.S. airports 

January 22 – (Canada) Major airports are directed to implement health screenings in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver

Here:

Quote

Creating a coronavirus taskforce:

January 29 – (US) The White House announces the formation of a coronavirus taskforce to inform the president on the pandemic

March 4 – (Canada) Trudeau forms coronavirus cabinet committee

Quote

Declaring a public health emergency: 

January 31 – (US) Trump declares the coronavirus is a public health emergency

February 3 – (Canada) Health Minister Patty Hajdu says Canada does not need to call a public health emergency

And here:

Quote

Putting the army on standby for coronavirus response:

March 17 – (US) Trump says the US Army Corps of Engineers is ready to help Americans fight the coronavirus

March 30 – (Canada) Trudeau says that 24,000 members of Canada’s military are on stand by to respond to the pandemic

Also I'm curious what you mean specifically by Trudeau let the Scientists lead where Trump did not. The cases I can think of where that was the case weren't necessarily a mistake. Not necessarily taking the WHO and China's word for how serious the problem was in China for example.

[Zeitgeist]

54 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Canada also lagged behind here:

Here:

And here:

Also I'm curious what you mean specifically by Trudeau let the Scientists lead where Trump did not. The cases I can think of where that was the case weren't necessarily a mistake. Not necessarily taking the WHO and China's word for how serious the problem was in China for example.

I think on the most part you’re comparing apples and oranges.  One of the biggest mistakes made was not having tests on hand.  Canada had the WHO’s tests.  The US had gone its own way and didn’t have them.  The pandemic unit had also been disbanded, likely as part of the widespread deregulation that has taken place under Trump.

Somehow the failings have been spun into the incompetence of the WHO or some kind of germ warfare from China.  How about this alternative?  Maybe the WHO was trying to figure out spread and mortality rates as best it could.  It provided messaging and support worldwide, especially in the poorest countries.  Were the WHO’s problems as bad as firing the head of health organization BARTA because of that leader’s honesty or telling people to take an untested drug or making unsound assumptions about the timing of the virus’s disappearance?

China was wrong to try to hide and downplay the virus, though it did eventually open up about what happened.  She also quite effectively controlled the spread.  China has many problems, but that’s got nothing to do with the problems with the US or Canada’s responses.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[WestCanMan]

54 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

Canada also lagged behind here:

Here:

And here:

Also I'm curious what you mean specifically by Trudeau let the Scientists lead where Trump did not. The cases I can think of where that was the case weren't necessarily a mistake. Not necessarily taking the WHO and China's word for how serious the problem was in China for example.

He let the scientists at the WHO lead him around by the nose, and Trump didn't.

How successfully each nation fought covid is inversely proportional to how much of the WHO's recommendations they followed. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think on the most part you’re comparing apples and oranges. 

 

No, that's a common refrain designed to deflect criticism, be it for Canada's or USA response...and the WHO.

Mistakes were made....there is no escaping that by declaring apples vs. oranges.

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

No, that's a common refrain designed to deflect criticism, be it for Canada's or USA response...and the WHO.

Mistakes were made....there is no escaping that by declaring apples vs. oranges.

To an extent I agree.  Mistakes are mistakes.  But not all these organizations perform the same functions or have the same levels of independence or other criteria.  

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

To an extent I agree.  Mistakes are mistakes.  But not all these organizations perform the same functions or have the same levels of independence or other criteria.  

 

Nevertheless, these organizations failed to be effective in the end, with conflicting policies and late declarations.  

Now we know....stop all travel....close borders....wear masks....test test test....etc.   Snowbirds stuck in Arizona...too bad.

Frankly, I am amazed at just how ill prepared all nations were/are, including Canada (after SARS).

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Nevertheless, these organizations failed to be effective in the end, with conflicting policies and late declarations.  

Now we know....stop all travel....close borders....wear masks....test test test....etc.   Snowbirds stuck in Arizona...too bad.

Frankly, I am amazed at just how ill prepared all nations were/are, including Canada (after SARS).

Well we had more PPE and infrastructure because of the SARS experience, but we weren’t as prepared as we should’ve been.  I’m not sure any of the political leaders who might have become our PM would’ve made us any better prepared. 

Now that we’re all racing to be prepared, I’m still not sure we know what the plan is.  I really don’t think staying shut down and waiting is a good idea.  The economy is deteriorating and we’re probably not preparing for the implications of that.  I think the whole discussion should shift to determining how we reopen the economy as much as possible with the least number of Covid deaths. This virus isn’t leaving soon, so how do we test, treat, and contain yet restart the economy without overwhelming the health care system or elevating the death rate?  I’m not even contemplating eliminating the virus or preventing all deaths in the near-term or perhaps even for years.  That’s the framework in which our leaders must perform because indefinite shutdown isn’t an option.  A vaccine may be years away and may not come before herd immunity, which will take much longer to reach with tight restrictions.  We need to find the most effective balance, but can we even agree on the success criteria?

Edited May 9, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[Zeitgeist]

19 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

How successfully each nation fought covid is inversely proportional to how much of the WHO's recommendations they followed. 

 

That’s just not true because for many countries the WHO provided the only credible warnings.  I don’t think the CDC has done any better, and both organizations have different mandates, one being national and the other international.  

[bush_cheney2004]

3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Well we had more PPE and infrastructure because of the SARS experience, but we weren’t as prepared as we should’ve been.  I’m not sure any of the political leaders who might have become our PM would’ve made us any better prepared.

 

Agreed....the failure was in expectations that any nation would have invested so much in pandemic preparedness.    Health care and other essential workers are still bitching about PPE as if that will magically make more appear.   The ventilator panic turned out to be a waste of time and resources.    The focus should have been on congregate facilities with vulnerable populations at first, not after the fact.  

 

Quote

Now that we’re all racing to be prepared, I’m still not sure we know what the plan is.  

 

The plan is to move forward with an acceptable level of misery and death.   And things could be far worse in the fall, but our "experts" don't know for sure (rolls eyes).

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Agreed....the failure was in expectations that any nation would have invested so much in pandemic preparedness.    Health care and other essential workers are still bitching about PPE as if that will magically make more appear.   The ventilator panic turned out to be a waste of time and resources.    The focus should have been on congregate facilities with vulnerable populations at first, not after the fact.  

 

 

The plan is to move forward with an acceptable level of misery and death.   And things could be far worse in the fall, but our "experts" don't know for sure (rolls eyes).

Right, but any mission has to have clear success criteria.  I hope we can find enough agreement to get on with the show before the playhouse burns down.  

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

Right, but any mission has to have clear success criteria.  I hope we can find enough agreement to get on with the show before the playhouse burns down.  

 

Well, I have a new found respect for the older generation that endured the 1918 pandemic that killed millions.   I suspect they did not bitch and whine to each other so much, and got on with the ugly business at hand.  

The only way out of this is to go right through it....hiding in the basement won't work long term.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Well, I have a new found respect for the older generation that endured the 1918 pandemic that killed millions.   I suspect they did not bitch and whine to each other so much, and got on with the ugly business at hand.  

The only way out of this is to go right through it....hiding in the basement won't work long term.

Yup, we try to social distance and the vulnerable have to be extra careful.  We try to protect them and employment at the same time.  Not sure how much longer so many people can be on pogey.  Hoping the money never runs out is as dumb as pretending the virus doesn’t exist.  

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Well, I have a new found respect for the older generation that endured the 1918 pandemic that killed millions.   I suspect they did not bitch and whine to each other so much, and got on with the ugly business at hand.  

The only way out of this is to go right through it....hiding in the basement won't work long term.

No its not the only way and the distance to a vaccine is short enough to make the effort worth it and workable.

I could care less for people who'd happily plunge headlong down the ugly path. I hope you choke on it.

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No its not the only way and the distance to a vaccine is short enough to make the effort worth it and workable.

I could care less for people who'd happily plunge headlong down the ugly path. I hope you choke on it.

 

Then stay in your basement until a vaccine is available.    Choke on that.

[eyeball]

3 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Then stay in your basement until a vaccine is available.    Choke on that.

No problemo.  You just stay in your country.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, eyeball said:

No problemo.  You just stay in your country.

 

I do...it is YOU that comes to the USA.  

[WestCanMan]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s just not true because for many countries the WHO provided the only credible warnings.  I don’t think the CDC has done any better, and both organizations have different mandates, one being national and the other international.  

Dude, are you seriously trying to tell me that you believe that the WHO did the world a favour in some way, shape or form? 

If Trump told the world not to ban travel from covid hotspots and not to wear masks you'd put him on the cross and so would every single Dem and every single member of the MSM.

Try again zg. 

[WestCanMan]

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No problemo.  You just stay in your country.

Racist.

[eyeball]

25 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I do...it is YOU that comes to the USA.  

I can count the times on one hand in all my life. I think I went to Buffalo when I was 6.

[eyeball]

28 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Racist.

Pragmatist.

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I can count the times on one hand in all my life. I think I went to Buffalo when I was 6.

 

You already told us you visited your brother in Washington state...busted !

 

[eyeball]

10 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

You already told us you visited your brother in Washington state...busted !

Once to Buffalo as a kid, once to Hawaii as a wedding gift and a couple times to visit family...like I said a handful. Then there were all the times I fished out on the Fence in disputed waters. So several more times probably according to your Coast Guard but they never did bust me so....

Meanwhile you're here now and have been some 56000 other times as well.