Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Boges]

12 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

WTF did Trudeau do that was useful to Canadians? Just say it. Don’t talk about anything else, just convince me that he wasn’t worse than useless. To date you haven’t said a thing. Say a specific thing or admit that he killed Canadians with his TOTAL uselessness. 

Not fight with everyone that doesn't offer him absolute praise like Trump does. 

[Argus]

19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Not one single person has managed to step up and point out an action that Trudeau took to slow down the progress of the virus within Canada before March 16th.

Maybe that should be a clue to you that nobody here is interested in defending Trudeau's shitty response to the pandemic.

At the same time, we can see that the big orange asshole screwed things up even worse. And continues to do so.

[Argus]

16 hours ago, Shady said:

Idiots will continue to be idiots all because of Trump.

You're saying Trump encourages idiocy?

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Argus

[Boges]

The Feds have done well to ensure that people don't starve in the streets in Canada and people who are out of work can get support. 

That's good enough in my books. The provinces have taken the Public Health thing on and the Feds take on Financial assistance. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Boges said:

Not fight with everyone that doesn't offer him absolute praise like Trump does. 

So.... nothing.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Maybe that should be a clue to you that nobody here is interested in defending Trudeau's shitty response to the pandemic.

At the same time, we can see that the big orange asshole screwed things up even worse. And continues to do so.

Trump's travel ban saved lives. The comparison of California vs Canada proved that. In Cali they weren't being advised to wear masks or social distance before mid-March either. Quite the opposite, as per Pelosi's Feb 24 video. They beat us like a rented mule in the fight against covid.

Of course you find great fault with Trump no matter what he does, you hate the way he rolls out of bed and you've never even seen it. 

He did a much better job fighting covid than Trudeau, much worse than _______________________ from [name almost any asian country]. Fact.

[Boges]

50 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

So.... nothing.

Not hearing a lot of complaining about the CERB. 

[bush_cheney2004]

8 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not hearing a lot of complaining about the CERB. 

 

Then you must be purposely ignoring the complaints:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/04/21/frustration-mounts-as-cerb-payments-come-quickly-for-some-while-others-have-yet-to-see-a-cent.html

https://www.660citynews.com/2020/04/28/airdrie-mother-to-be-files-human-rights-complaint-after-being-denied-cerb/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-time-to-fix-the-part-time-gap-in-cerb-its-essential/

https://globalnews.ca/news/6873370/cerb-ei-reports-service-canada-letter/

[Boges]

11 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then you must be purposely ignoring the complaints:

https://www.thestar.com/business/2020/04/21/frustration-mounts-as-cerb-payments-come-quickly-for-some-while-others-have-yet-to-see-a-cent.html

https://www.660citynews.com/2020/04/28/airdrie-mother-to-be-files-human-rights-complaint-after-being-denied-cerb/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-time-to-fix-the-part-time-gap-in-cerb-its-essential/

https://globalnews.ca/news/6873370/cerb-ei-reports-service-canada-letter/

Those are somewhat anecdotal. 

Millions have received the benefit. 

Actually many probably shouldn't be getting it and may get a nasty surprise next tax season. 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/cerb-covid-pandemic-coronavirus-1.5552436

Quote

 

More than 7 million Canadians have applied for the Canada Emergency Response Benefit — but CBC News has learned that some of them shouldn't actually be getting the $2,000-per-month payment.

And those receiving the money who aren't entitled to it could be putting their own financial futures at risk.

One Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) employee said she deals regularly with people who aren't qualified to receive the benefit but are getting it anyway.

EI claimants are going weeks without income as federal call system slows to a crawl

Canadians have lost more than $1.2 million to COVID-19 scams

She said she spoke with a senior collecting a pension who applied for CERB on behalf of herself and her two disabled adult children.

"I noticed all three of them, living in the same household, are getting two $2,000 cheques," she told CBC News. (The second cheques are retroactive payments.)

"So, $12,000 all on the same day. None of them were eligible."

 

 

[WestCanMan]

22 minutes ago, Boges said:

Not hearing a lot of complaining about the CERB. 

Trudeau is good at handing out money. It's his go-to move. Does he even do anything else?

1) Pelosi is good at stalling tactics, and 2) giving checks to 328M people and 11M - 20M illegal immigrants is harder than giving cheques to 38M people. Especially when you get to do it unilaterally, with no input from the opposition on who gets it or how it is disbursed. 

Does your argument that Trudeau did a better job of fighting covid come down to cheques now? Are the cheques more important than blocking travellers from covid hotspots, screening at the airports, tracing potentially infected people, quarantines, wearing masks, etc?

[Boges]

Just now, WestCanMan said:

Trudeau is good at handing out money. It's his go-to move. Does he even do anything else?

1) Pelosi is good at stalling tactics, and 2) giving checks to 328M people and 11M - 20M illegal immigrants is harder than giving cheques to 38M people. Especially when you get to do it unilaterally, with no input from the opposition on who gets it or how it is disbursed. 

Does your argument that Trudeau did a better job of fighting covid come down to cheques now? Are the cheques more important than blocking travellers from covid hotspots, screening at the airports, tracing potentially infected people, quarantines, wearing masks, etc?

That's the Fed's purview at this point. 

Cite the infighting we're seeing in the US between governors and 45. 

DoFo and JT are aggressive political rivals. JT talked about him all the time in the October election. But both have buried the hatchet for the good of the country. 

You don't see either shit talking each other when they have daily press briefings. Which they still do, unlike Trump who turned them into political rallies and hocked bunk science and unhelpful treatments. 

[Right To Left]

23 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

The southern US Canada border is 3,500 miles long you dolt. 150 miles x 3,500 miles is 525,000 square miles. If that was all of Canada, that would still make Canada one of the world's top 20 largest countries, and there would only be 34M people in that whole area (by your own estimate of .9 of our population). There are 33M people in just the NYC MSA and the LA MSA. 

So in short, you're saying that the most densely populated 525,000 square MILES of Canada has almost the exact same population as two US metropolitan areas, and you think you just had a GOTCHA moment lol.

You just have no clue wTF you're talking about dude. I'd have an easier time explaining this to a 12 year old who has yet to be indoctrinated with Liberal propaganda.

And you are emotional and abusive now because you know damned well that, even if population density is a little greater in American cities than Canadian cities, that has nothing to do with why the US has done such a piss-poor job of dealing with this pandemic. Otherwise, why is Covid-19 rates rising in the more rural states in the US now....a question I asked before and you ignored?

The real reason the US is a failure at dealing with this situation, is because private, for profit medicine is only good at making sure wealthier people get the best care dealing with heart disease and cancer and other aging-related diseases. While infectious diseases started the first movement for public healthcare in England 100 years ago, because if your neighbours are sick and contagious, you'll catch it too if you are stuck in close proximity with them. Which is bad news for rich people who have servants also....and politicians like Donald Trump...since it's been reported yesterday that one of his valets tested positive. At this rate, Donald's days of burning the candle at both ends may be ending soon!

[bush_cheney2004]

17 minutes ago, Right To Left said:

The real reason the US is a failure at dealing with this situation, is because private, for profit medicine is only good at making sure wealthier people get the best care dealing with heart disease and cancer and other aging-related diseases.  While infectious diseases started the first movement for public healthcare in England 100 years ago, because if your neighbours are sick and contagious, you'll catch it too if you are stuck in close proximity with them...

 

The U.S. is actually doing far better than some nations in Europe, especially the United Kingdom with their NHS:

 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

[WestCanMan]

4 hours ago, Boges said:

That's the Fed's purview at this point. 

Cite the infighting we're seeing in the US between governors and 45. 

DoFo and JT are aggressive political rivals. JT talked about him all the time in the October election. But both have buried the hatchet for the good of the country. 

You don't see either shit talking each other when they have daily press briefings. Which they still do, unlike Trump who turned them into political rallies and hocked bunk science and unhelpful treatments. 

I don't even know who dofo is. 

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, Right To Left said:

And you are emotional and abusive now because you know damned well that, even if population density is a little greater in American cities than Canadian cities, that has nothing to do with why the US has done such a piss-poor job of dealing with this pandemic. Otherwise, why is Covid-19 rates rising in the more rural states in the US now....a question I asked before and you ignored?

The real reason the US is a failure at dealing with this situation, is because private, for profit medicine is only good at making sure wealthier people get the best care dealing with heart disease and cancer and other aging-related diseases. While infectious diseases started the first movement for public healthcare in England 100 years ago, because if your neighbours are sick and contagious, you'll catch it too if you are stuck in close proximity with them. Which is bad news for rich people who have servants also....and politicians like Donald Trump...since it's been reported yesterday that one of his valets tested positive. At this rate, Donald's days of burning the candle at both ends may be ending soon!

The US federal government did far better than the Canadian gov't did. Like I said, we are naturally social-distanced to a great extent by our geography.

In the US there were extremely bad decisions made at the state and local levels which will eventually have to be sorted out.

It seems as though old-age care facilities were being forced to take in covid patients in NY state. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/coronavirus-spreads-new-york-nursing-home-forced-take-recovering-patients-n1191811 (The same types of things happened in Mtl.)

If that's true, and if there were already covid-only hospitals set up at the time that had room for more patients, there will be hell to pay. It's always tough to say what's what with covid though, because some people have it for a long time before they get symptoms, or they never get them at all. There could have been covid carriers in all those care homes for a long time which nobody even suspected.

Would you care to cite some rural US stats? I'm not going to go looking for them to suit you. 

[marcus]

3 reasons why there is such a big difference between U.S. and Canada:

1) New York

Take out NY, NJ and CT. If you take those out, the numbers are closer:
 

2) Health access and pre-existing conditions

Obesity and pre-existing conditions. U.S. has the highest rate of obesity in the world. There is also the gaps in the U.S. health-care system that predated the pandemic. There's a persistent gap in access to care, for example, with visible minorities likelier to lack medical insurance.

 

3) Politics

People in counties that voted predominately for Trump in the 2016 election were less likely to perceive risk, seek information or practise physical distancing, according to a paper published last month by university researchers in Chicago and Texas.

Another paper said what precautions individual Americans took against the virus may have been influenced by what they heard on political talk shows.

Tracking data collected by Google from smartphones suggests that Canadians practised more physical distancing than Americans and began doing it earlier.

Google's reports for Saskatchewan and Alberta show people in those provinces doing more distancing than people across the border in Montana and North Dakota. 

Clear public communication is essential in a pandemic, said Saverio Stranges, chair of epidemiology and biostatistics at Western University in London.

Canadian politicians, while not perfect, tried delivering consistent messages at the federal and provincial levels, guided by public-health experts, he said.

In the U.S., Trump repeatedly clashed with state governors at various stages of the crisis — criticizing their performance, blasting some for reopening too slowly, and at one point also accusing a Republican ally in Georgia of reopening too quickly.

Several governors expressed frustration at the mixed-messaging and lack of co-ordinated response and made their own plans for procuring protective equipment and curbing the virus.

 

Trump was quicker in some aspects of his response than the Canadian government. He limited travel much earlier and promoted the use of masks earlier.

Yet Trump's messaging ebbed and flowed on basic details such as the severity of the crisis.

In February, a month after he restricted travel from China, Trump was still insisting the U.S. would have zero cases soon.

Link

[eyeball]

22 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

WTF did Trudeau do that was useful to Canadians? Just say it. Don’t talk about anything else, just convince me that he wasn’t worse than useless. To date you haven’t said a thing. Say a specific thing or admit that he killed Canadians with his TOTAL uselessness. 

You've admitted twice now the number of people Trudeau killed is unquantifiable. Not by a number a percentage a ratio or any combination thereof. You have not even attempted to provide so much as an estimate...a few, a bunch, a lot, most...nothing.  Just blind pigheaded certainty based on hatred and a shit-show of string and post-it notes.

WTF is wrong with you?

[marcus]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

You've admitted twice now the number of people Trudeau killed is unquantifiable. Not by a number a percentage a ratio or any combination thereof. You have not even attempted to provide so much as an estimate...a few, a bunch, a lot, most...nothing.  Just blind pigheaded certainty based on hatred and a shit-show of string and post-it notes.

He functions on emotion, which is triggered by the media he consumes himself with. 

[Boges]

13 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I don't even know who dofo is. 

Doug Ford, Premiere of Ontario. 

Brother of Rob Ford, late former mayor of Toronto. 

JT mentioned him like every day in the October Campaign. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Boges

[dialamah]

On 5/6/2020 at 7:49 PM, WestCanMan said:

WTF did Trudeau do that was useful to Canadians? Just say it. Don’t talk about anything else, just convince me that he wasn’t worse than useless. To date you haven’t said a thing. Say a specific thing or admit that he killed Canadians with his TOTAL uselessness. 

People have pointed out the ways that Trudeau has done better than Trump; you ignore that.  Nobody has given Trudeau an absolute pass, like you have Trump.  Trump's dismissing the seriousness of the virus for months and his hawking of unproven "cures" resulted in people dying, but you refuse to even see that - choosing instead to throw everyone under the bus, except Trump.  Many of the people who recognize what JT did right don't particularly like him, wouldn't vote him, and have said so.  Your adoration for Trump has made you stupid.

[dialamah]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:04 PM, WestCanMan said:

I'd have an easier time explaining this to a 12 year old who has yet to be indoctrinated with Liberal propaganda.

What you mean is .. a 12-year-old would fall for your BS because they have no experience politically or in life, and still of an age where critical thinking is barely a possibility.   

Sadly for you, this forum isn't composed of 12-years-old, and your "arguments", being at the level of a 12-year-old, aren't working.   

[Infidel Dog]

I watch these tongue-baths Justin gets from his bribed Canadian media versus the wild-eyed, hysterical squeals for a gotcha from what passes for American media and I wish either bunch would explain one statistic to me. Come to think of it the gullibles who seem to think they've proved something if they just keep repeating over and over how terrible America's reaction to the pandemic was versus the wonders of Justin's more China friendly reaction can feel free to explain this stat too.

It's on this page:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Check the column that says fatality rate. Fatality rate is the percentage of infected who die. The last time I looked America was about # 20 in that group of 30 fatality rates. Canada was about a full percentage point worse than America.

[WestCanMan]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

You've admitted twice now the number of people Trudeau killed is unquantifiable. Not by a number a percentage a ratio or any combination thereof. You have not even attempted to provide so much as an estimate...a few, a bunch, a lot, most...nothing.  Just blind pigheaded certainty based on hatred and a shit-show of string and post-it notes.

WTF is wrong with you?

I showed how much worse Canada did than other locations who only enacted the travel ban back in January and we did significantly worse. Aus and Caifornia

Everyone knows that most asian countries completely blew us out of the water re: covid. I shouldn't have to explain that to you. Tokyo and the surrounding metropolitan areas have Canada's population, 38M, and only 155 covid deaths.

Tweedle dumb and tweedle dumber did nothing until mid-March. If they at least enacted some positive policies that would be one thing, but they did NOTHING. Doing nothing to stop a pandemic is really bad eyeball.

You're acting like we did ok here and that's just idiotic when we're on page 47 of this thread, and you've posted on almost every page. We have 30x as many covid deaths in our country as Tokyo has, and their population density is probably 30,000x what our country's is. 

You're so far out in left field that you have to cross the foul line to get back in the game. 

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

Doug Ford, Premiere of Ontario. 

Brother of Rob Ford, late former mayor of Toronto. 

JT mentioned him like every day in the October Campaign. 

You won't be surprised to find out that I like DoFo better than True-dodo lol. 

[Infidel Dog]

25 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're acting like we did ok here and that's just idiotic when we're on page 47 of this thread, and you've posted on almost every page. We have 30x as many covid deaths in our country as Tokyo has, and their population density is probably 30,000x what our country's is. 

This is not to take sides in the debate you're having with eyeball - it's just an interesting little video I saw that offers explanation as to why Japan did better than most Western countries with protecting itself from the ChiComm virus. The proposal is, it's a cultural thing: