Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[WestCanMan]

53 minutes ago, dialamah said:

People have pointed out the ways that Trudeau has done better than Trump; you ignore that. 

No one has, that's why I posted that. They just post stats about how many people died in a city with 1/3 of Canada's population, as if that compares with spuzzum BC, and they post opinions. 

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Nobody has given Trudeau an absolute pass, like you have Trump. 

Can you show me the thread where you were critical of Trudeau's handling of covid? I'd love to see it.

Can you find me an article or a segment on air from CBC or CTV contemplating whether Trudeau did enough to protect us from the virus? While he did nothing for two and a half months? No, you can't. But they mention Trump's criticisms of the WHO like Trump was wrong about them. 

Find something from CTV or CBC that's critical of Trudeau dialamah, you pathetic liar.

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Trump's dismissing the seriousness of the virus for months and his hawking of unproven "cures" resulted in people dying, but you refuse to even see that - choosing instead to throw everyone under the bus, except Trump. 

He cut travel from China, and China does billions in business with the US every year. He did that when the WHO was still advising against it. That's pretty serious. He had the task force, with actual useful people on it, set up while Trudeau was still out of the country. Trudeau never even bothered to get anyone useful working on covid. He let the same dummies continue do nothing while he hid in his basement. And this late in the game, with this much evidence in, Trudeau is still acting like the WHO just nailed it. He even gave them money when Trump rightfully cut them off.

Trudeau didn't just lack foresight, his hindsight is astonishingly bad as well. He's completely useless on his very best day.

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Many of the people who recognize what JT did right don't particularly like him, wouldn't vote him, and have said so.  Your adoration for Trump has made you stupid.

OMG you talk about my adoration of Trump, while you blindly refer to the fact that "Trudeau must have done some good things to fight covid" lol. That's just plain stupid.

 

This was on Yahoo News today, it's CBC's most recent garbage about why Canada's per capita deaths are 1/2 of what America's are:

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The overwhelming opinion points to three main contributors: longstanding issues related to health care, politics and one particular city.

While every expert agreed the U.S. government flubbed its early response to the pandemic, most said the administration of U.S. President Donald Trump was just one element in the bigger story.

Yeah there's no need to qualify or quantify that, just belch it out and the idiots will gobble it out and spew it far and wide.

You've been sucked in dialamah. You never had a chance.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, dialamah said:

What you mean is .. a 12-year-old would fall for your BS because they have no experience politically or in life, and still of an age where critical thinking is barely a possibility.   

Sadly for you, this forum isn't composed of 12-years-old, and your "arguments", being at the level of a 12-year-old, aren't working.   

You're not at the level of a 12 yr old dialamah, you're below that.

You don't question anything yourself, you don't do critical thinking, you just watch MSM as if they're your best bud and they tots got yer 6. 

Here's a fact: Justin Trudeau didn't implement a single anti-covid action until March 16th. He missed the boat on the travel ban, his gov't just copied and pasted the WHO's recommendation to not wear masks, which was 100% wrong. Other countries who did both those things early have almost no deaths. We have over 4,000. 

Why haven't you questioned that? Whay hasn't the CBC questioned that?

What do you think that Trudeau did better than Trump? This should be easy for you because you're so adamant it's obviously correct. So reply with a convincing answer, using actual facts, or just face the fact that you're a total idiot.

[WestCanMan]

24 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

This is not to take sides in the debate you're having with eyeball - it's just an interesting little video I saw that offers explanation as to why Japan did better than most Western countries with protecting itself from the ChiComm virus. The proposal is, it's a cultural thing:

 

A "cultural thing" lol. Sounds like they're just smarter than us.

I gotta get busy here but I'll watch that in a bit. 

[eyeball]

53 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

You're acting like we did ok here 

I'm sorry but 'here' could mean anything when you're trying to make a point.  You jump between cities and land masses and states and subway systems and populations and provinces and countries...just fuck off already....seriously.

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I showed how much worse Canada did than other locations who only enacted the travel ban back in January and we did significantly worse. Aus and Caifornia

For the umpteenth time there was no ban merely the appearance of one.  A real ban would have resulted in Patriot missiles blowing planes out of the sky not to mention the virus was already here.

So...are you going to continue to never show us just how many people Trudeau actually killed?

[WestCanMan]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

For the umpteenth time there was no ban merely the appearance of one.  A real ban would have resulted in Patriot missiles blowing planes out of the sky not to mention the virus was already here.

So...are you going to continue to never show us just how many people Trudeau actually killed?

For the umpteenth time, there was a ban, you're an idiot.

If you compare Canada to Japan, Trudeau killed 4,000 people. We should be at less than 200.

If you compare him to Trump, Trudeau killed 1,000 people. We should have less deaths than California.

Edited May 8, 2020 by WestCanMan

[dialamah]

44 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

The proposal is, it's a cultural thing:

Culture is also considered a reason why Sweden has done relatively well with more relaxed restrictions.  Swedes are more accustomed to thinking in terms of societal benefit over personal benefit and more willing to voluntatily follow the guidelines suggested by their government.  Still, Sweden did set restrictions on gatherings (no more than 50) and closed high school and universities.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

I watch these tongue-baths Justin gets from his bribed Canadian media versus the wild-eyed, hysterical squeals for a gotcha from what passes for American media and I wish either bunch would explain one statistic to me. Come to think of it the gullibles who seem to think they've proved something if they just keep repeating over and over how terrible America's reaction to the pandemic was versus the wonders of Justin's more China friendly reaction can feel free to explain this stat too.

It's on this page:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Check the column that says fatality rate. Fatality rate is the percentage of infected who die. The last time I looked America was about # 20 in that group of 30 fatality rates. Canada was about a full percentage point worse than America.

Did you check the column that says deaths per million?  It looks like America's doing twice as bad according to that list of numbers.

Maybe the best explanation is that figures lie and liars figure.  We're not going to know what happened until all the numbers are in and they're crunched according to an international scientific standard that yields the same results 19 times out of 20.

Until then, I ask you the same question as WCM.  How many people did Trudeau kill?

[Infidel Dog]

3 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Did you check the column that says deaths per million?  It looks like America's doing twice as bad according to that list of numbers.

I'm thinking geography could explain that.  When you have more concentrated areas you would expect more people to be infected. 

The percentage of people who don't die once infected however one would expect to go to treatment.

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

For the umpteenth time, there was a ban, you're an idiot.

No there wasn't. People just flew around it, over, thru it.  You're hallucinating.
 

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If you compare Canada to Japan, Trudeau killed 4,000 people. We should be at less than 200.

If you compare him to Trump, Trudeau killed 1,000 people. We should have less deaths than California.

What if I simply choose not to compare given how pointless doing so is and when there's barely a government on the planet that hasn't made mistakes along the way?

[eyeball]

13 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I'm thinking geography could explain that.  When you have more concentrated areas you would expect more people to be infected. 

The percentage of people who don't die once infected however one would expect to go to treatment.

This is just the thing, there are so many variables, hell we don't even know what all the variables are, yet everyone's running around with their numbers and their graphs certain in their knowledge they tell the story they think is most important.  Which in your case like so many others is to ensure that ideology is the most important variable of all.

When someone has so much hate concentrated on someone else I expect they'll say and do anything it takes to express that hatred. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by eyeball

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

This is not to take sides in the debate you're having with eyeball - it's just an interesting little video I saw that offers explanation as to why Japan did better than most Western countries with protecting itself from the ChiComm virus. The proposal is, it's a cultural thing:

 

The Japanese government gave their citizens masks instead of telling them not to wear masks, and they banned travel from Hubeii Province right away instead of just name-calling against countries who banned travellers from the covid hotspot. https://japantoday.com/category/national/Japan-bars-entry-of-foreign-travelers-from-China's-Hubei-Province

I'm putting more stock in the actions that the Japanese took than in their cultural predilections. 

Japan kicked our asses in the fight against covid because their government treated it like a fight right from day 1. 

Trudeau killed 4,000 Canadians by not using common sense and following basic scientific/medical knowledge.

 

 

[dialamah]

30 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

What do you think that Trudeau did better than Trump?

He got out of the way of experts, provided a clear and consistent message based on latest info from those experts, supported the provinces, worked quickly to provide support for people and businesses affected by Covud.  He didn't throw any twitter tantrums, didn't declare the virus a hoax, didn't hawk dangerous snake oil cures, didn't promise the virus would be gone by Easter, hasn't encouraged returning to normal while cases and deaths are increasing,

Nobody has said Trudeau or our government couldn't have done better,  been better prepared, acted more quickly.   Nobody has denied that some other countries have done better in terms of testing, tracing and controlling outbreaks - especially in those countries where people are accustomed to a heavier governmental hand.

But "better than Trump" is a low bar to set, and Trudeau has cleared it with ease.  

[Infidel Dog]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

This is just the thing, there are so many variables, hell we don't even know what all the variables are, yet everyone's running around with their numbers and their graphs certain in their knowledge they tell the story they think is most important.  Which in your case like so many others is to ensure that ideology is the most important variable of all. 

I would think the bigger problem would be people jumping to assumption without any kind of support.

For example: there are those I mentioned who believe they've proven a claim Trump has been doing a terrible job dealing with this ChiComm virus yet they only seem capable of supporting that claim by repeating it over and over again.

There are those like Democrat or just Never-Trumper governors who whine and whinge with claims of shortages of PPE or not enough tests - it's those I would ask to explain America's comparatively low fatality rate. Accident? Coincidence? 

 

[WestCanMan]

9 minutes ago, eyeball said:

No there wasn't. People just flew around it, over, thru it.  You're hallucinating.
 

What if I simply choose not to compare given how pointless doing so is and when there's barely a government on the planet that hasn't made mistakes along the way?

Trump banned travellers "who had been to China within the past 14 days". Not travellers coming in from China. International travellers use passports, the US gov't knows whether or not they've been to China. 

You've said about 1,000 idiotic things in a row here. I admire your AOC-like ability to disregard the feeling of shame.

[WestCanMan]

15 minutes ago, dialamah said:

He got out of the way of experts, provided a clear and consistent message based on latest info from those experts, supported the provinces, worked quickly to provide support for people and businesses affected by Covud.  He didn't throw any twitter tantrums, didn't declare the virus a hoax, didn't hawk dangerous snake oil cures, didn't promise the virus would be gone by Easter, hasn't encouraged returning to normal while cases and deaths are increasing,

Nobody has said Trudeau or our government couldn't have done better,  been better prepared, acted more quickly.   Nobody has denied that some other countries have done better in terms of testing, tracing and controlling outbreaks - especially in those countries where people are accustomed to a heavier governmental hand.

So Trudeau actually took zero actions by your own estimation, made the wrong recommendations, and he considered people to be experts who were clearly useless.

There were other world leaders around him making better decisions. Don't you think he could pick up a phone and call Abe from China [he's actually from Japan, but I don't want to have to explain that to Justin], or Trump, and say "Hey why are you guys doing things that the WHO is recommending against?" instead of calling them racists?

If he chose the counsel of morons it still comes back on Trudeau. Dr Tam's failings are Trudeau's failings now. 4,000 Canadians are dead because of it. 

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But "better than Trump" is a low bar to set, and Trudeau has cleared it with ease.  

You're a total idiot if you believe that doing nothing and propagating the worst advice possible, and then giving money to the people who gave you the bad advice was smart dialamah.

Timeline of events:

1) The WHO gives out the recipe for spreading a pandemic to the world

2) Trudeau and his "experts" copy and paste it for Canadians

3) other world leaders, who are getting far better advice from their own experts, disregard the WHO's blatantly foolish advice and successfully fight covid

4) Trudeau calls the world leaders who banned Covid-carriers racist

5) Trudeau calls them racist again, because once is never enough

6) after 45 days of calling other world leaders racist on more than one occasion, Trudeau takes his first steps to fight covid

7) Trump cuts off the WHO for giving the world the recipe for spreading the pandemic instead of fighting it. Says that the WHO needs to be investigated

8) Trudeau sticks up for the WHO, gives them millions of dollars for the bad advice that killed 4,000 Canadians.

9) dialamah says that Trudeau did better than Trump

10) WCM correctly identifies Trudeau and dialamah as idiots for the 1,000th time. 

Book it.

[Infidel Dog]

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1. Travel bans work

In January, President Trump took the bold step of banning travel from China back in January. The World Health Organization said it wouldn’t work. Joe Biden called it xenophobic. Others joined in on the criticism. But, a month later WHO experts conceded that it worked and it saved lives. While Trump was widely criticized for his travel bans, his critics have largely flip-flopped on the issue. Even Joe Biden has flip-flopped on this; he now supports the travel ban with China after previously calling it “xenophobic.” Other former critics of the ban would later claim the ban didn’t go far enough and should have been implemented earlier.

If Trump’s decision to close travel with China saved lives, then Obama’s decision not to close travel with Mexico during the H1N1 pandemic cost lives. Remember, the H1N1 pandemic resulted in 60.8 million infections. Imagine how much lower those numbers would have been had Obama been more like Trump.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/matt-margolis/2020/05/05/the-left-is-not-going-to-like-this-but-trump-has-been-proven-right-over-and-over-again-n388261

 

In fact, Trudeau was one of those guys suggesting travel bans were "Racist," then later decided they were a good idea and adopted them.

[Infidel Dog]

If you'd like the specifics it went like this:

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Implementing travel restrictions: 

January 29 – (Canada) Dr Theresa Tam says to follow the WHO and not implement travel bans

January 31 – (US) Trump announces travel restrictions on China

January 31 – (Canada) Border official says they don’t have a list of 24 countries where the virus has spread; only limiting identifying passengers who have been to Wuhan

February 2 – (Canada) Trudeau underlines the importance for Canada to combat racism

February 29 – (US) Trump announces travel advisory to Italy and South Korea and bans travel to Iran 

March 4 – (Canada) Hajdu says the border is not relevant to the spread of coronavirus

March 5 – (Canada) Trudeau defends Canada’s open borders approach, denounces knee-jerk reaction 

March 11 – (US) Trump announces travel restriction to Europe 

March 12 – (Canada) Travellers arriving from Italy reporting that they are not being interviewed or screened 

March 13 – (Canada) Hajdu says “border measures are highly ineffective” and could create harm

March 14 – (US) Trump extends travel restrictions to UK and Ireland 

March 16 – (Canada) Trudeau finally restricts international flights except for diplomats and Americans

March 17 – (Canada, US) Both countries mutually agree to close their borders to non-essential travel 

March 18 – (Canada) Foreign nationals from all countries except the US are banned from entering the country

https://tnc.news/2020/04/01/trudeau-trailed-behind-trump-by-days-and-even-weeks-in-coronavirus-response/

[WestCanMan]

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

This is just the thing, there are so many variables, hell we don't even know what all the variables are, yet everyone's running around with their numbers and their graphs certain in their knowledge they tell the story they think is most important. 

The thing is, stats can be completely misleading if used properly, and CBC used the covid stats for Canada and the US properly in order to give you your opinion.

They convinced you that the covid stats for a place like NYC should be similar to the combined covid stats for Yellowknife, Whitehorse, Fort Mac, Sudbury, Timmins, Churchhill, Flin Flon, Fort Assiniboine, Truro, Charlottetown, Biggar, Moosamin, Spuzzum, Grand Forks, Thunder Bay, Petawawa, Moncton, Leduc, Gravenhurst, Swift Current, Lethbridge, Vermillion, Vernon, and Labrador. You'll have to take my word for it, that's not the case. 

[eyeball]

30 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

I would think the bigger problem would be people jumping to assumption without any kind of support.

Precisely.  So...aside from hatred, what supports the assumption Trudeau killed 4000 people?

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For example: there are those I mentioned who believe they've proven a claim Trump has been doing a terrible job dealing with this ChiComm virus yet they only seem capable of supporting that claim by repeating it over and over again.

There are those like Democrat or just Never-Trumper governors who whine and whinge with claims of shortages of PPE or not enough tests - it's those I would ask to explain America's comparatively low fatality rate. Accident? Coincidence? 

I have no idea, this is the Trudeau killed 4000 people thread.  There are threads praising Trump's performance elsewhere in the forum you could probably find answers to your liking. 

 

   

Edited May 8, 2020 by eyeball

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, Infidel Dog said:

If you'd like the specifics it went like this:

Except the ban was about as effective as this.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

Precisely.  So...aside from hatred, what supports the assumption Trudeau killed 4000 people?

I have no idea, this is Trudeau killed 4000 people thread.  There are threads praising Trump's performance elsewhere in the forum you could probably find answers to your liking. 

In Tokyo, where they implemented a travel ban against Hubeii and gave their citizens masks, there are less than 200 deaths. Tokyo is just a city but the population of Canada resides within their metropolitan area. 

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Greater Tokyo Area
• Urban	3,925 km2 (1,515 sq mi)
• Metro	14,034 km2 (5,419 sq mi)
Population (2016/17 only for total population)
• City	38,140,000

Trudeau could have been like Japan:

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Tokyo

Confirmed 4,654

Recovered -

Deaths 155

Japan

Confirmed 15,547

Recovered 5,906

Deaths 557

Worldwide

Confirmed 3.88M +83,462

Recovered 1.3M

Deaths 271K +6,542

 

 

 

[Infidel Dog]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Precisely.  So...aside from hatred, what supports the assumption Trudeau killed 4000 people?

 

   

I have no idea. I never made that assumption.

 

[Boges]

Japan is testing 1,500 people per million. 

Currently Canada is testing 27,000 per million. 

I would put about as much stock in Japan's numbers as with India and China. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Boges

[eyeball]

Just now, Infidel Dog said:

I have no idea. I never made that assumption.

You should have an idea, you're in here supporting the assumption and making it pretty clear ideology is a big reason why.

[WestCanMan]

13 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Except the ban was about as effective as this.

Explain California, with a larger pop than Canada, 10X our pop density, and less covid deaths, despite the fact that the Dems were PROMOTING mass gatherings there as late as Feb 24th?

If you can't then you're just admitting that you're an idiot.