Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Argus]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Won't make any difference, because the other cult(s) bring up Trump anyway, if only to praise Trudeau, Canada , globalism, Paris Agreement, WHO, China, etc....anything that Trump has confronted.

Trump dominates, taking up all the oxygen in the room, because that is what he wants to do, and you help him do it.

I don't bring up Trump. I admit that I have been guilty of pushing back against you and the rest of the Trump cult  and your endless praise of a man with the morals of a pimp and the knowledge base of an illiterate rural farmer who never made it past grade two. And I'm tired of doing so.

[Argus]

2 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In summary, I made a couple of accurate points, you had no valid counter-points,

As I've already pointed out, there's no point in arguing with truthers, and you're a truther. You even defend yourself in the same way, demanding I address your 'accurate points'. I'm done with you people. Charles appears to really hate what he calls threadjacking and I'm going to start making complaints every time you guys start trying to shift the discussion over to your cult leader's wonderfulness. There are US subject groups here. Go there with your crap.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Argus

[bush_cheney2004]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I don't bring up Trump. I admit that I have been guilty of pushing back against you and the rest of the Trump cult  and your endless praise of a man with the morals of a pimp and the knowledge base of an illiterate rural farmer who never made it past grade two. And I'm tired of doing so.

 

But you have, if only to express your hatred and contempt for the man even before he was elected.

You have contributed to the very "problem" of too much Trump.  

There was a mass shooting in Canada yesterday...worse in the country's history as reported....but Trump still gets the bandwidth.

 

 

[Argus]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

But you have, if only to express your hatred and contempt for the man even before he was elected.

Unless someone else brings him up, or unless he's directly involved in something related to Canada I go to the US topics to discuss my loathing for your cretin of a leader.

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

You have contributed to the very "problem" of too much Trump.  

And I'm going to try and stop doing that.

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

There was a mass shooting in Canada yesterday...worse in the country's history as reported....but Trump still gets the bandwidth.

There really isn't anything political to be said about the mass shooting yet. No doubt some idiot liberal will use it to bring up gun control and then we can start yelling about it.

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Argus said:

Unless someone else brings him up, or unless he's directly involved in something related to Canada I go to the US topics to discuss my loathing for your cretin of a leader.

And I'm going to try and stop doing that.

 

OK....so NOW you are tired of it....we'll see.    Even your fearless leader brings up Trump.

 

Quote

There really isn't anything political to be said about the mass shooting yet. No doubt some idiot liberal will use it to bring up gun control and then we can start yelling about it.

 

You know damn right well that there would already be a topic about the U.S. and Trump if this had happened "south of the border" (again).

Trudeau will not be challenged on this the way Trump routinely is, regardless of the topic.   

 

[Argus]

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

OK....so NOW you are tired of it....we'll see.    Even your fearless leader brings up Trump.

Trump is like an endless car wreck. Of course people bring him up. But there is already a whole topic on US politics here. There's another on US and Canada, which, not coincidentally, has a subject about Trump vs Trudeau on the covid response. All I'm suggesting is that you people keep the Trump shit in appropriate topics and subjects.

4 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Trudeau will not be challenged on this the way Trump routinely is, regardless of the topic.  

Trudeau is challenged for his shallow virtue signalling ways, for his style over substance governing style which is not wholly different from the Trump administration, if quieter and less overtly ignorantly displayed.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, Argus said:

I don't bring up Trump. I admit that I have been guilty of pushing back against you and the rest of the Trump cult  and your endless praise of a man with the morals of a pimp and the knowledge base of an illiterate rural farmer who never made it past grade two. And I'm tired of doing so.

There are two separate stories re: Trump Argus: 1) Trump lacks class and he's a philanderer, and 2) Trump has been an effective leader in the states.

Your other accusations against Trump are worthless and stupid.

I can't say that Obama is as much of a philanderer as Trump, and I'll admit Obama's unwiped butt-hole has a classier demeanour than Donald Trump does on a good day, but I can say that Obama intentionally led the country in the wrong direction and that he made horribly divisive comments at the very worst of times. Trump has made far better moves for America as President.

Who's better than Trump Argus? Hillary, who backed her husband's rapes and punched down on his victims? Biden, who used the government as a spade to mine gold in China and the Ukraine? Bernie the communist dolt? AOC, the dumbest person to ever win an election at any level? Idiotic, hypocritical liars Pelosi or Schumer? 

I've come to believe that the majority of people who are eager enough to spend their entire lives seeking power are usually a bit evil around the edges. Trump's brand of evil is crassness and hubris, but he is on America's side and he moves the goalposts ahead. Trudeau is the opposite of Trump in a lot of ways, but Trudeau is not advancing the goalposts at all. 

[WestCanMan]

18 minutes ago, Argus said:

As I've already pointed out, there's no point in arguing with truthers, and you're a truther. You even defend yourself in the same way, demanding I address your 'accurate points'. I'm done with you people. Charles appears to really hate what he calls threadjacking and I'm going to start making complaints every time you guys start trying to shift the discussion over to your cult leader's wonderfulness. There are US subject groups here. Go there with your crap.

Waah. 

[Argus]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

There are two separate stories re: Trump Argus: 1) Trump lacks class and he's a philanderer, and 2) Trump has been an effective leader in the states.

Your other accusations against Trump are worthless and stupid.

I can't say that Obama is as much of a philanderer as Trump, and I'll admit Obama's unwiped butt-hole has a classier demeanour than Donald Trump does on a good day, but I can say that Obama intentionally led the country in the wrong direction and that he made horribly divisive comments at the very worst of times. Trump has made far better moves for America as President.

Who's better than Trump Argus? Hillary, who backed her husband's rapes and punched down on his victims? Biden, who used the government as a spade to mine gold in China and the Ukraine? Bernie the communist dolt? AOC, the dumbest person to ever win an election at any level? Idiotic, hypocritical liars Pelosi or Schumer? 

I've come to believe that the majority of people who are eager enough to spend their entire lives seeking power are usually a bit evil around the edges. Trump's brand of evil is crassness and hubris, but he is on America's side and he moves the goalposts ahead. Trudeau is the opposite of Trump in a lot of ways, but Trudeau is not advancing the goalposts at all. 

This discussion is on how Trudeau failed in his covid19 response and you're talking about Hillary Clinton and Obama and US politics, none of which have the slightest to do with the subject. That's why I find it irritating and why I''m not going to be drawn into your inane discussions.

[WestCanMan]

25 minutes ago, Argus said:

This discussion is on how Trudeau failed in his covid19 response and you're talking about Hillary Clinton and Obama and US politics, none of which have the slightest to do with the subject. That's why I find it irritating and why I''m not going to be drawn into your inane discussions.

I replied to jacee's comment about Trump. You could have told her to stay on topic. You could have stayed out of it. In stead you replied to me. So I replied to you. 

Trust me, I can stay on topic about Trudeau's stupidity all day. 

[bush_cheney2004]

1 hour ago, Argus said:

Trump is like an endless car wreck. Of course people bring him up. But there is already a whole topic on US politics here. There's another on US and Canada, which, not coincidentally, has a subject about Trump vs Trudeau on the covid response. All I'm suggesting is that you people keep the Trump shit in appropriate topics and subjects.

 

That's fine and dandy, but next to near impossible because of the way Canada reflexively responds to America/Trump's antics.   And it is not just this forum....mainstream media in Canada does a whole lotta Trump even in Canadian content.  

All things "Trumpian" have become the go to foil...even in Canada.    I have never seen a U.S. politician dominate the collective psyche in Canada the way that Trump does, easily overshadowing Trudeau.

So we agree that there is way too much Trump, but we disagree on that changing anytime soon.

 

Quote

Trudeau is challenged for his shallow virtue signalling ways, for his style over substance governing style which is not wholly different from the Trump administration, if quieter and less overtly ignorantly displayed.

 

Trudeau tried to compete early on, even in U.S. media, but he quickly faded as his policies and message doomed him to the circus sideshow just as Trump came to utterly dominate all three rings...with elephants !    Anyone could see that Trump mattered more than Trudeau.

Covid cases and deaths in Canada will not hurt Trudeau nearly as much as Trump in a much more polarized United States.   Trudeau got busted for trying to pull off an emergency powers coup with Parliament, but the opposition is too weak to capitalize on it.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

9 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

That's fine and dandy, but next to near impossible because of the way Canada reflexively responds to America/Trump's antics.   And it is not just this forum....mainstream media in Canada does a whole lotta Trump even in Canadian content.  

All things "Trumpian" have become the go to foil...even in Canada.    I have never seen a U.S. politician dominate the collective psyche in Canada the way that Trump does, easily overshadowing Trudeau.

So we agree that there is way too much Trump, but we disagree on that changing anytime soon.

 

 

Trudeau tried to compete early on, even in U.S. media, but he quickly faded as his policies and message doomed him to the circus sideshow just as Trump came to utterly dominate all three rings...with elephants !    Anyone could see that Trump mattered more than Trudeau.

Covid cases and deaths in Canada will not hurt Trudeau nearly as much as Trump in a much more polarized United States.   Trudeau got busted for trying to pull off an emergency powers coup with Parliament, but the opposition is too weak to capitalize on it.

 

 

Dude, for all of Trudeau’s flaws, the Covid crisis in the US is really bad.  I don’t pin it all on Trump, but I do think some reflection is important right now on the value of responsive universal healthcare.

What happened in Nova Scotia yesterday will provide more reasons for gun control, not more reasons to follow the US Second Amendment insanity.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Dude, for all of Trudeau’s flaws, the Covid crisis in the US is really bad.  I don’t pin it all on Trump, but I do think some reflection is important right now on the value of responsive universal healthcare.

 

Dude, it has very little to do with universal healthcare, and a lot more to do with population size, density, and mobility.    At U.S. scale, Canada would have nearly 17,000 COVID19 deaths....better, but nothing to celebrate. 

 

Quote

What happened in Nova Scotia yesterday will provide more reasons for gun control, not more reasons to follow the US Second Amendment insanity.  

 

Actually, it provides reasons for why gun control fails to stop criminals intent on mass murder, no matter where it is.

[OftenWrong]

29 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Dude, for all of Trudeau’s flaws, the Covid crisis in the US is really bad.  I don’t pin it all on Trump, but I do think some reflection is important right now on the value of responsive universal healthcare.

US is doing about the same as the EU if you compare the two.

The US has more facilities to give responsive health care than Canada does.
List of countries by hospital beds

The data in that link is disturbing in that it shows Canada has a more than 90% occupancy rate in our hospital beds, worst in the world. If we were to be hit hard by the virus we would be completely on our knees. We are simply lucky that hasn't happened, is all.

[Zeitgeist]

50 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

US is doing about the same as the EU if you compare the two.

The US has more facilities to give responsive health care than Canada does.
List of countries by hospital beds

The data in that link is disturbing in that it shows Canada has a more than 90% occupancy rate in our hospital beds, worst in the world. If we were to be hit hard by the virus we would be completely on our knees. We are simply lucky that hasn't happened, is all.

I disagree because if there was a strong, de-politicized unified national public health information campaign in the US, the spread could have been stemmed sooner. The rejection of WHO testing kits added to the problem. Also, finances have been a barrier to healthcare access, especially in poor inner city communities where the risk of spread is higher.

 

52 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Dude, it has very little to do with universal healthcare, and a lot more to do with population size, density, and mobility.    At U.S. scale, Canada would have nearly 17,000 COVID19 deaths....better, but nothing to celebrate. 

 

 

Actually, it provides reasons for why gun control fails to stop criminals intent on mass murder, no matter where it is.

It’s true that density plays a big role in places like New York City. Certainly urban Ontario and Quebec are hardest hit in Canada.  Preventing non-essential travel is also important and Trump gets some points on that, in an uneven way, for certain flight restrictions. However, his politicizing of the crisis and non-scientific opinions have failed to provide essential clarity and focus.

As for gun control, if this N.S. character wasn’t armed we wouldn’t have so many senseless killings on our hands.  Now, we need to know the types of weapons used   Fires were set which would have been unpreventable with gun restrictions.  No one is going to take away hunting rights, obviously.  I do think it’s dangerous having so many arms among the populace in a time when mental health problems are becoming more prevalent.

As for all your ‘Canada is dependent on the US‘ rhetoric, we haven’t specialized in making everything because it didn’t make economic sense as a small country to do so.  However, Canada does produce and export much PPE.  Canada will need to become more independent, but we would pay in other ways by giving up global supply chains.  Basically we need better contingency plans.

Canada does have its hot spots.  Greater Toronto’s numbers are still rising though rural Ontario has flattened.  I wonder what the implications will be for cities everywhere.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s true that density plays a big role in places like New York City.  Certainly urban Ontario and Quebec are hardest hit.  Preventing non-essential travel is also important and Trump gets some points on that, in an uneven way, for certain flight restrictions.  However, his politicizing of the crisis and non-scientific opinions have failed to provide essential clarity and focus.

 

Meh...some Canadians are watching Fauci and Brix to get more information than they can get from Tam.   

 

Quote

As for gun control, if this N.S. character wasn’t armed we wouldn’t have so many senseless killings on our hands.  Now, we need to know the types of weapons used   Fires were set which would have been unpreventable with gun restrictions.  No one is going to take away hunting rights, obviously.  I do think it’s dangerous having so many arms among the populace in a time when mental health problems are becoming more prevalent.

 

Trudeau politicized the mass shooting for his gun ban campaign.   

 

Quote

As for all your ‘Canada is dependent on the US‘ rhetoric, we haven’t specialized in making everything because it didn’t make economic sense as a small country to do so.  However, Canada does produce and export much PPE.  Canada will need to become more independent, but we would pay in other ways by giving up global supply chains.  Basically we need better contingency plans.

 

Go for it....I recommend it.   

My point today was a simple fact proven by provincial trade numbers with U.S. states.   Canada is more dependent on the U.S.

 

Quote

Canada does have its hot spots.  Greater Toronto’s numbers are still rising though rural Ontario has flattened.  I wonder what the implications will be for cities everywhere.  

 

The implication is obvious...just get on with it.   Flatten the curve...not the entire country.

[Zeitgeist]

1 minute ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Meh...some Canadians are watching Fauci and Brix to get more information than they can get from Tam.   

 

 

Trudeau politicized the mass shooting for his gun ban campaign.   

 

 

Go for it....I recommend it.   

My point today was a simple fact proven by provincial trade numbers with U.S. states.   Canada is more dependent on the U.S.

 

 

The implication is obvious...just get on with it.   Flatten the curve...not the entire country.

How did Trudeau politicize the N.S. shooting?  I’m not a Trudeau fan but I don’t see evidence of politicization of that event.  

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

How did Trudeau politicize the N.S. shooting?  I’m not a Trudeau fan but I don’t see evidence of politicization of that event.  

 

He said he would move forward on the gun ban legislation that was interrupted by COVID19.

 

Quote

Trudeau said his government is looking at moving ahead with stricter gun control measures as Parliament returns for some regular sittings during the pandemic.

"This is very much an ongoing investigation that is in its early stages in Nova Scotia right now. So I don't want to jump to conclusions," he said.

"I can say we were on the verge of introducing legislation to ban assault-style weapons across the country. It was interrupted when the pandemic caused Parliament to be suspended. We have every intention of moving forward on that measure, and potentially other measures, when Parliament returns."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-nova-scotia-shooting-1.5538301

 

[Zeitgeist]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

He said he would move forward on the gun ban legislation that was interrupted by COVID19.

 

 

Interesting.  I hope we get more gun control.  I don’t support a ban on hunting rifles.  

[-1=e^ipi]

On 3/21/2020 at 6:11 AM, Michael Hardner said:

Banning flights from China early on doesn't seem to have helped the US much.

It seemed to work well for Taiwan and Australia.

[-1=e^ipi]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:45 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

Canada must be doing something right. The US has twice  as many cases per capita as Canada.

Or it's due to Canada being a more spread out and less densely populated country. A better comparison would be with Australia.

[Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, -1=e^ipi said:

Or it's due to Canada being a more spread out and less densely populated country. A better comparison would be with Australia.

I think it’s about public health policy more than anything else.  We’ve been on a strict diet of it country-wide since early March.  Taiwan and South Korea had very strong policies and preparations.  I’m sure travel bans and, in the case of Australia, its island status, help.  Having so much cross border and international travel has certainly been a risk factor for Canada.  Our public health policy has hopefully saved our asses.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think it’s about public health policy more than anything else.  We’ve been on a strict diet of it country-wide since early March. 

 

Country-wide policy doesn't explain the relative spikes in Ontario and Quebec.

[Zeitgeist]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Country-wide policy doesn't explain the relative spikes in Ontario and Quebec.

Ontario is still at just over a third of Canada’s cases with 40% of the country’s population.  Twice as bad as B.C., half as bad as Quebec.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

Ontario is still at just over a third of Canada’s cases with 40% of the country’s population.  Twice as bad as B.C., half as bad as Quebec.  

 

Right....much variation.   Universal health care and national policy did not prevent such variation, so other factors are at play.