America under President Trump

[bush_cheney2004]

34 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The right doesn’t own the Moon landing.  That was Kennedy’s initiative.  

 

Then obviously you are dismissing the real JFK and his politics....see "Vietnam War"...."Bay of Pigs" and ..."Missiles of October".

 

[Dougie93]

While Armstrong's name will live forever as the man who stepped first unto the Sea of Tranquility from humble beginnings at Appomattox Courthouse, in practical terms,  his greatest contribution to humanity remains his service in the Cold War, flying combat missions for the Navy against the Progressive lunatics in Korea, godspeed.

Frankly, for a aviator like Armstrong, the Moon was rather a cake walk, little bit of maneuver right at the end to stick the landing, but it's not like he had to brave any enemy fire on the approach.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Dougie93

[Dougie93]

Armstrong served the republic with gallantry, thrice over.

First,  he fought in mortal combat against the totalitarianism of the Progressive left, defending the light of civilization itself from their Bolshevism, 78 sorties into the breach.

Then he stuck the landing on the Moon, like a boss, as of course he would, as any naval aviator would, three wire on the deck, the ball was called.

But most importantly, rather than seeking fame or fortune for his exploits, Armstrong returned to a quiet life in Ohio, like Cincinnatus of Rome, unlike most icons of the era, Armstrong never done anything to embarrass himself nor America, he should be remembered for his greatness as a model citizen as much for his footprints upon the Moon.  10,000 years from now, not a single blemish will there be on the record of Lieutenant Junior Grade Neil Armstrong, a greater ambassador to history there never was.

Even Jesus of Nazareth has a few skeletons in his closet, Armstrong of Ohio however, not so much, they really should change the name of Cincinnati, to Armstrong. A Roman legend no longer needed,  America's legends walk amognst the Heavens, to Cincinnatus of Rome, Neil Armstrong would be a Pagan God. The Romans themselves would have changed the name of Rome to Armstrong, if he had walked upon the Moon for them.

North German Protestants, from Hanover to Ohio, uber alles, tho when Armstrong applied to lead a boy scout troop, on the application under the heading religion, he wrote in "Deist", God bless him.

Washington, Lincoln, Armstrong, the father, the son, and the holy ghost of the American religion; Eagle with thunderbolts in talons grasped, from Appomattox Court House to the Sea of Tranquility and beyond.

Edited July 27, 2019 by Dougie93

[GostHacked]

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Wrong. Corporations within the US do not set foreign policy.

I never made that claim.   However it does seem written into US law that corporations cannot legally boycott Israeli products / companies. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If Ford and Apple boycott a country that is almost the same as an entire country boycotting Israel.

That may be so, but that's not the point I made. Should Ford and Apple have the right to refuse to do business with whoever they chose?

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Also, companies within the US are not allowed to boycott minorities either. 

Businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. And should have the right to boycott any other business for any reason. Logical or not.  People then have the right to not do business with that company. That would be much better than legislation forcing companies to accept everyone. Let the people vote with their money.

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

If the BDS movement took a responsible, unbiased position they might get some respect.

Boycotting Israeli products made in the occupied territories is reasonable to me.

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

You're out in left field. You're comparing a country that just blatantly attacked neighbouring countries and forced citizens into slave labour and committed genocide against 7M people to a country that gained ground when they were attacked by foreign countries and then gave most of it back, and that obviously never committed genocide. 

That's not what I said. My point was on boycotting Israeli products made in the occupied territories. The comparison to Nazi Germany was made by you, not me.

21 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

I encourage you to work on your reading comprehension.

But yet I was able to get you to correct yourself on your plethora of contradicting posts? I think my comprehension is just fine.

[Zeitgeist]

4 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Then obviously you are dismissing the real JFK and his politics....see "Vietnam War"...."Bay of Pigs" and ..."Missiles of October".

 

True that Kennedy was no boy scout, and the Moon landing was in many ways about asserting supremacy in aerospace during the Cold War.  It was also the highest technological achievement of humanity.  It’s admirable for the human, non-nationalist perspective it gave us that has led to cooperation on the ISS and other international projects that illustrate international cooperation and human development, which are lofty and noble goals.  With regard to Trump, he has worked against these ideals by breeding distrust and showing contempt for other countries.  

[bush_cheney2004]

16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

....  With regard to Trump, he has worked against these ideals by breeding distrust and showing contempt for other countries.  

 

Actually, Trump has continued the U.S. tradition of cooperation in space with Russia, Japan, EU and commercial firms for the Lunar Orbiting Platform - Gateway (LOP-G).   As usual, Canada will be tagging along for a piece of the action with another robot arm.   So much contempt !

Canada would not even be a minor player in space were it not for the support and cooperation of current and previous U.S. administrations (NASA).   There is so much "distrust", Canadians know more about NASA than their own CSA's past and present projects

[Zeitgeist]

6 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, Trump has continued the U.S. tradition of cooperation in space with Russia, Japan, EU and commercial firms for the Lunar Orbiting Platform - Gateway (LOP-G).   As usual, Canada will be tagging along for a piece of the action with another robot arm.   So much contempt !

Canada would not even be a minor player in space were it not for the support and cooperation of current and previous U.S. administrations (NASA).   There is so much "distrust", Canadians know more about NASA than their own CSA's past and present projects

Don’t bring Canada into this, the third country to launch a satellite into space.  The CSA has a proud history and Canadians have played important roles on shuttle and ISS missions, from Garneau to Hadfield.  That’s besides the point of my argument, which is that much more is achievable through international cooperation in space than blowing the equivalent of an annual state budget to launch a space mission. It’s why Russia never had a shuttle program, but had success providing Soyuz rockets as part of international space endeavours.  Anyway, you’re going to have to go through it again with China, because both the US and China are currently too tribal to work together.  History repeats itself.  Yawn.  

[bush_cheney2004]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Don’t bring Canada into this, the third country to launch a satellite into space.  The CSA has a proud history and Canadians have played important roles on shuttle and ISS missions, from Garneau to Hadfield.  That’s besides the point of my argument, which is that much more is achievable through international cooperation in space than blowing the equivalent of an annual state budget to launch a space mission. It’s why Russia never had a shuttle program, but had success providing Soyuz rockets as part of international space endeavours.  Anyway, you’re going to have to go through it again with China, because both the US and China are currently too tribal to work together.  History repeats itself.  Yawn.  

 

Actually, Canada's Alouette 1 satellite was launched by the United States (Thor-Agena @ Vandenberg) after an invitation from NASA to participate.   The U.S. continues international and commercial cooperation for many projects in space, with Canada being just one of the partner nations.   So your entire premise is wrong for Trump/NASA now, and going forward.

Edited July 28, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[WestCanMan]

21 hours ago, eyeball said:

I could care less about why the conditions are inhumane. The issue is how your panties got into a twist when I pointed out that right wing media sources were using the term inhumane before anyone else. For some reason you kept insisting everyone, even the CATO Institute was using the term inhumane because it was a CNN talking point. Rather than admit CNN does not call the shots you were even willing to go so far as to agree that Charles Koch was a virtue signalling lefty quoting CNN as well.

That's why your retarted opinions mean less than shit.  Your back-peddling in every direction possible just underscores that.

BS eyeball. You have no clue what's going on.

The Republicans said there was a crisis at the border months ago, and they were correct. As soon as they said it the Dems instantly took the opposite position. Get it? I've always known that.

The border is underfunded six ways from Sunday, and inhumanity in the detention centers is one of many symptoms of that problem. That inhumanity is not a symptom of a racist government that's actively enlisting evil border guards who force people to drink from toilets. Get it?

As long as the Dems are calling for more illegal immigration then the "inhumanity" at the border will always exist. The US could never be set up to properly deal with tens of thousands of illegal border crossings a month. 

But get this, it's so simple that every other human on earth understands it except for you: AOC IS LYING WHEN SHE SAYS THAT PEOPLE ARE BEING FORCED TO DRINK FROM TOILETS. ONLY REALLY REALLY STUPID BELIEVE THAT BORDER GUARDS FORCED WOMEN TO DRINK FROM TOILETS WITH A CONGRESSWOMAN STANDING RIGHT THERE. ON THE BRIGHT SIDE, YOU'RE PART OF A VERY EXCLUSIVE CLUB.

I'm not upset that the Republicans used the word inhumanity. I'm explaining to you that what CATO said and what AOC said don't back each other up, at all. It seems like you will never get your brain around that. Shocker. 

 

[WestCanMan]

17 hours ago, GostHacked said:

I never made that claim.   However it does seem written into US law that corporations cannot legally boycott Israeli products / companies. Please correct me if I am wrong on that.

That may be so, but that's not the point I made. Should Ford and Apple have the right to refuse to do business with whoever they chose?

I know you never made that claim, you just don't didn't consider the international ramifications of businesses taking actions which effectively constitute the setting of foreign policy.

Ford and Apple have licenses to conduct business within the USA and abroad. But a business license isn't a license to set foreign policy. If you want to do business in the US you have to follow their laws.

Quote

Businesses should have the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. And should have the right to boycott any other business for any reason. Logical or not.  People then have the right to not do business with that company. That would be much better than legislation forcing companies to accept everyone. Let the people vote with their money.

Not really. Just think about the cake maker who didn't want to make a cake for the gay couple. The court determined that they didn't have the right to deny those people the right to do business with them.

In the end the court also determined that it would be going too far to impose a positive injunction on them, specifically by making them create a cake with gay people on it, but the court still said that the cake maker had to allow gay people to do business with them. Their business would not be allowed to continue to operate if they refused to conduct business with gay people. Period.

Quote

Boycotting Israeli products made in the occupied territories is reasonable to me.

I totally appreciate that you have humanitarian concerns. I used to be anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian as well. 

But what you consider reasonable and what Iran considers reasonable and what Israel considers reasonable don't really matter though.

Quote

That's not what I said. My point was on boycotting Israeli products made in the occupied territories. The comparison to Nazi Germany was made by you, not me.

The comparison to Nazi Germany was made by a member of the squad. That's the genesis of this whole debate.

Quote

But yet I was able to get you to correct yourself on your plethora of contradicting posts? I think my comprehension is just fine.

If your posts made more sense then I wouldn't have made a claim against your reading comprehension. 

[GostHacked]

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I know you never made that claim, you just don't didn't consider the international ramifications of businesses taking actions which effectively constitute the setting of foreign policy.

Please explain why there is a law that prevents US companies from boycotting Israeli companies?

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Ford and Apple have licenses to conduct business within the USA and abroad. But a business license isn't a license to set foreign policy. If you want to do business in the US you have to follow their laws.

And the law tells the company they cannot boycott Israel, they MUST do business with them.

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Not really. Just think about the cake maker who didn't want to make a cake for the gay couple. The court determined that they didn't have the right to deny those people the right to do business with them.

Again, I believe the business has every right to refuse service for any reason, no matter if it makes sense or not. That's free enterprise capitalism.

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

In the end the court also determined that it would be going too far to impose a positive injunction on them, specifically by making them create a cake with gay people on it, but the court still said that the cake maker had to allow gay people to do business with them. Their business would not be allowed to continue to operate if they refused to conduct business with gay people. Period.

Then their business will die, and that's a GOOD thing. Leaves room for other businesses that WILL cater to everyone.

However these are kind of two different scenarios.  One where a company refuses to bake a cake for gay people. Meaning the clients are the American people. 

And another where a company refuses to carry certain products from other nation which that company would find that nation's actions questionable.  Do I want to offer products to my American clients if they were made from slave labour in China? Should I be forced to carry those products? 

There is no law forcing me to do business with China. Why would there be a law forcing me to do business with any specific nation regardless of the reasons?

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I totally appreciate that you have humanitarian concerns. I used to be anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian as well. 

Ok so you are not a humanitarian.

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

But what you consider reasonable and what Iran considers reasonable and what Israel considers reasonable don't really matter though.

Good deflection with Iran.  This part has been specifically about boycotting products from Israel. Which is in a bigger thread about Trump.

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

The comparison to Nazi Germany was made by a member of the squad. That's the genesis of this whole debate.

No that's just this part of this whole thread regarding Trump. But again, good of you to clear things up, yet again.  But again that is not exactly what she said either.

11 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

If your posts made more sense then I wouldn't have made a claim against your reading comprehension. 

Yawn.

[WestCanMan]

1 minute ago, GostHacked said:

Please explain why there is a law that prevents US companies from boycotting Israeli companies?

And the law tells the company they cannot boycott Israel, they MUST do business with them.

Again, I believe the business has every right to refuse service for any reason, no matter if it makes sense or not. That's free enterprise capitalism.

Then their business will die, and that's a GOOD thing. Leaves room for other businesses that WILL cater to everyone.

However these are kind of two different scenarios.  One where a company refuses to bake a cake for gay people. Meaning the clients are the American people. 

And another where a company refuses to carry certain products from other nation which that company would find that nation's actions questionable.  Do I want to offer products to my American clients if they were made from slave labour in China? Should I be forced to carry those products? 

There is no law forcing me to do business with China. Why would there be a law forcing me to do business with any specific nation regardless of the reasons?

Ok so you are not a humanitarian.

Good deflection with Iran.  This part has been specifically about boycotting products from Israel. Which is in a bigger thread about Trump.

No that's just this part of this whole thread regarding Trump. But again, good of you to clear things up, yet again.  But again that is not exactly what she said either.

Yawn.

Wow. I didn't have to have someone connect the dots for me to arrive at a conclusion of why US businesses are not allowed to unilaterally decide who they are going to boycott. I just figured it out myself.

You, on the other hand, don't understand it even after it was all spelled out for you.

I can't type any slower GH. You'll just have to read it really really slowly and try to understand.

Your insults are juvenile, I don't have anything to say to the rest of your post.

Cheers GH. I hope that your tireless efforts to research and create debate points eventually expands your brain to the point where you can undesrtand the subject matter that you're dealing with.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

BS eyeball. You have no clue what's going on.

The Republicans said there was a crisis at the border months ago, and they were correct. As soon as they said it the Dems instantly took the opposite position. Get it? I've always known that.

You've also known the Republicans said there were inhumane conditions there before AOC did.

All that's going on is that you insist otherwise, despite knowing. Why?

 

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Actually, Canada's Alouette 1 satellite was launched by the United States (Thor-Agena @ Vandenberg) after an invitation from NASA to participate.   The U.S. continues international and commercial cooperation for many projects in space, with Canada being just one of the partner nations.   So your entire premise is wrong for Trump/NASA now, and going forward.

Wrong:

riginally, Alouette was going to be an instrument package that would ride on an American satellite. At the suggestion of Dr. John Chapman from the Defence Research Telecommunications Establishment, however, Alouette became a full-blown Canadian satellite.

Alouette performed much better than everyone expected. Its intended lifespan was one year, but Alouette sent down information about the ionosphere for ten full years. Alouette produced over one million images of the top side of the ionosphere. The satellite was so successful that it even won an award. On January 22, 1987, the Engineering Centennial Board Inc. recognized Alouette as one of the ten most outstanding achievements of Canadian engineering over the last one hundred years.

Alouette might look simple by modern standards, but it brought Canada respect and attention from the international space community. It also set the stage for many other Canadian achievements in space. Even today, satellites are the central project of the Canadian space industry.

[DogOnPorch]

Alouette wasn't going anywhere without NASA.

[Charles Anthony]

Folks,  

Please avoid thread drift.  

[bush_cheney2004]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Wrong:

riginally, Alouette was going to be an instrument package that would ride on an American satellite. At the suggestion of Dr. John Chapman from the Defence Research Telecommunications Establishment, however, Alouette became a full-blown Canadian satellite

 

The point here has nothing to do with the satellite and everything to do with President Trump/NASA continuing to cooperate with other nations in space.

Stop inventing Trump bogeyman in endeavours where there are none.   Russia, USA, EU, Japan, and Canada continue to work on projects....Trump or no Trump.

(But I do think the proud Canadian nationalism is cute and to be encouraged, even if it takes Trump to do so. )

The Trump administration continues to fund and lead on LOP-G with international partners, along with ISS, James Webb Space Telescope, etc.

Your contention above is without merit or foundation.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by bush_cheney2004

[Zeitgeist]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The point here has nothing to do with the satellite and everything to do with President Trump/NASA continuing to cooperate with other nations in space.

Stop inventing Trump bogeyman in endeavours where there are none.   Russia, USA, EU, Japan, and Canada continue to work on projects....Trump or no Trump.

(But I do think the proud Canadian nationalism is cute and to be encouraged, even if it takes Trump to do so. )

The Trump administration continues to fund and lead on LOP-G with international partners, along with ISS, James Webb Space Telescope, etc.

Your contention above is without merit or foundation.

 

Without merit or foundation?  That’s cute.  

[DogOnPorch]

2 hours ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

The point here has nothing to do with the satellite and everything to do with President Trump/NASA continuing to cooperate with other nations in space.

Stop inventing Trump bogeyman in endeavours where there are none.   Russia, USA, EU, Japan, and Canada continue to work on projects....Trump or no Trump.

(But I do think the proud Canadian nationalism is cute and to be encouraged, even if it takes Trump to do so. )

The Trump administration continues to fund and lead on LOP-G with international partners, along with ISS, James Webb Space Telescope, etc.

Your contention above is without merit or foundation.

 

 

Trump has brought back some pride in NASA which was sorely needed. I recall the NASA for Trump signs at his Florida rallies. Doubt THOSE were officially sanctioned at the time...heh.

[egghead]

6 hours ago, Charles Anthony said:

Folks,  

Please avoid thread drift.  

may be we shall all relax and let the thread take its course 

[Charles Anthony]

Just now, egghead said:

may be we shall all relax and let the thread take its course 

No. 

[egghead]

 

1 hour ago, Charles Anthony said:

No. 

I believe you can a better job here  If you think the thread is drifting, you better point out which part is not in the right direction. Without doing that and you just give out blanket warning, it seems that you just want the discussion to only suit your own voice.

We are all want to have a meaningful discuss regarding trump and USA here, right or wrong.

CIP,  you give a blanket warning in this thread, and someone believes it is becasue Nazis hate Israel. However, no one mentioned Nazis

 

BTW, why you give me a warning?

 

Edited July 29, 2019 by egghead

[Greg]

1 hour ago, egghead said:

BTW, why you give me a warning?

Please don’t discuss issues/questions in the middle of a thread. If you have a specific question relating to a moderation action or have a more general question, either use PM or post in the support section.

thanks

[Boges]

Another Racist tirade this weekend from Trump. 

The irony of going after the congressman from Baltimore about poverty in his district when the poorest states in US are republican. 

https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/us-states-by-poverty-rate.html

You don't even get to a Blue State until 17. Maryland, the state that has Baltimore, seems to actually be one of the least poverty stricken.  

Imagine if a Dem called Alabama rat-infested. 

What if Obama went after Mitch McConnel's state of Kentucky when he blocked his Supreme Court nominee. 

[Boges]

On 7/25/2019 at 5:32 PM, OftenWrong said:

There is no conclusion after two years, that's the take away picture. All the minutia you are describing is perhaps "evidence", but not hard evidence. The reason I'm saying that is the Dems are not doing anything substantial about it. The Dems are just mouthing off. Macbeth Act 2, 2-26

The conclusion was that there were multiple acts that could be considered Obstruction of Justice, but because of a Department of Justice opinion, a sitting President can't be charged, the avenue that needs to be taken is impeachment, then a criminal charge. Which doesn't seem likely because of the Republican controlled Senate. 

It was the Republicans finally turning on Nixon that finally convinced him to leave office on his own. 

It seems clear that Trump would face criminal charges should he be removed from office via an election. That'll be a fun inauguration day in 2021. 

Edited July 29, 2019 by Boges