Potential for Poilievre to lose even more - another floor crosser crosses the floor

[August1991]

Carney? The federal Liberals just need enough seats to win votes in the house.

In 1972, Trudeau Snr lived with a minority.

=====

In 1977, Trudeau Snr brought Jack Horner across the floor famously saying: "If I can do it with Jack, you can do it with Quebec.", 

Carney? The federal Liberals just need enough seats to win votes in the house.

In 1972, Trudeau Snr lived with a minority.

=====

In 1977, Trudeau Snr brought Jack Horner across the floor famously saying: "If I can do it with Jack, you can do it with Quebec.", 

[TreeBeard]

51 minutes ago, ironstone said:

If you honestly believe that the CCP does not flex its muscle on Canadian soil through various means then I think you are incredibly naive.

I believe they do. Now show the evidence that they do through this organization.  

 

51 minutes ago, ironstone said:

Obviously I am not privy to any hard evidence

Well…. not sure what to do when a person makes a claim and then admits there’s no evidence unless I can hack CSIS computers to try and find it. 

Edited December 13, 2025 by TreeBeard

[Gaétan]

It was probably a Liberal spy who crossed over to the other side of the chamber for the sake of the cause—good riddance.

[herbie]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

One more seat for the WEF globalist fascists lieberal party

Talk about a STUCK brain. A shake of the head won't help, try a crack with a 2x4

[August1991]

Trust me.

The federal Liberals will pay/do whatever to get another person to cross the floor.

[CdnFox]

31 minutes ago, August1991 said:

Trust me.

The federal Liberals will pay/do whatever to get another person to cross the floor.

They are certainly going to offer anything that anybody wants that's for sure. And if they have someone lined up they will ask them to cross the floor shortly before the conservative convention and leadership review. It would be devastating to Pierre  not only lose another person, But also to lose the minority. And on top of it all it would mean 4 to 5 years before the next election so people would be a lot quicker to replace poilievre knowing that they had time.

It's exactly the kind of move you'd expect from Carney. So we'll see if he succeeds. 

[Moonlight Graham]

13 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

You are welcome to try and change our system if you don’t like it. 

The system doesn't function the way you say it does, because of "responsible government" in the Westminster system and the constitutional requirement for the government to maintain the confidence of the majority of MP's in Parliament.  If there's a confidence bill, like the budget, and the vote doesn't pass, an election is automatically triggered.  So leaders maintain party discipline especially for confidence votes in order for the government to actually exist and function.

If you're Jody Wilson-Raybould and you act on behalf of the interests of your constituents you're kicked out of caucus and lose your party nomination and have little to no power sitting as an independent.  And people typically don't vote for independent MP's exactly because they have virtually no power in Parliament.  So people vote for the party and the party leader and often don't give a rat who their MP is because he doesn't have much power anyways.  The leader has the power to whip votes, assign people to desirable cabinet positions and committees etc.  There's a clear power hierarchy between leader > cabinet > backbenchers.

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The system doesn't function the way you say it does, because of "responsible government" in the Westminster system and the constitutional requirement for the government to maintain the confidence of the majority of MP's in Parliament.  If there's a confidence bill, like the budget, and the vote doesn't pass, an election is automatically triggered.  So leaders maintain party discipline especially for confidence votes in order for the government to actually exist and function.

If you're Jody Wilson-Raybould and you act on behalf of the interests of your constituents you're kicked out of caucus and lose your party nomination and have little to no power sitting as an independent.  And people typically don't vote for independent MP's exactly because they have virtually no power in Parliament.  So people vote for the party and the party leader and often don't give a rat who their MP is because he doesn't have much power anyways.  The leader has the power to whip votes, assign people to desirable cabinet positions and committees etc.  There's a clear power hierarchy between leader > cabinet > backbenchers.

Your pessimism has merit.

But if the inputs to the system were as the designers assumed - with each stakeholder, knowing that God was watching, acting with a modicum of virtue - the system would work exactly as it did during the olden "good old days".

As for the public, if they were getting the benefits of good government and watching with a critical eye, fed by information. Rich media, that would also help.

[Barquentine]

On 12/11/2025 at 10:15 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

It may be time to renew my membership for the coming CPC leadership race to replace Mr. Poilievre. I feel sorry for the guy but he is the author of his own destruction. He just refuses to listen to advice.

The CPC deserves better than PP, and Canada deserves better for an opposition party. Just hope they wake up and find a decent leader.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, taxme said:

Hey my little troll comrade, thanks for the last ten down arrows. They are going to fill up my new chart just nicely and very quickly. Sadly, if you keep it up though i may have to go out and buy myself another new chart, commie. 

Aw well, as they say, shit happens. LOL 

Can you rewrite what you said again. Or do you have an English writing problem? Just asking. 

Awww upset at the down arrows....  try not earning them LOL

Poor sad sad little man.

I'm your comrade again I see LOL

"What does calling someone a comrade mean? Etymology. The term comrade generally means 'mate', 'colleague', or 'ally', and derives from the Spanish and Portuguese term camarada,"

So, thanks

 

Etymology. The term comrade generally means 'mate', 'colleague', or 'ally', and derives from the Spanish and Portuguese term camarada, lit. 'chamber mate', from Latin camera, lit. 'chamber' or 'room'."
 

[BeaverFever]

Potential disaster looms over Pierre Poilievre’s leadership
 

 

Losing one MP to the Liberals may be regarded as a misfortune. Losing two smacks of carelessness. Now Pierre Poilievre’s Conservative leadership is really in danger. Even a victory in the upcoming leadership review in January won’t necessarily make it safe.

Now, Mr. Poilievre will be looking over his shoulder and into the shadows. Maybe one more of his MPs will defect before party delegates convene in Calgary to vote on his leadership. Or just after he wins. Liberal House Leader Steven MacKinnon declared Friday that there are other dissatisfied Conservative MPs. He might as well have sneaked up behind Mr. Poilievre and shouted “boo!”

That is how things have changed since Thursday night, when Markham-Unionville MP Michael Ma announced he is leaving the Conservatives and crossing the floor to the Liberals.

It was bad enough for Mr. Poilievre when Nova Scotia MP Chris d’Entremont crossed the floor on the day of the federal budget. But then, things seemed to stabilize. Now, Mr. Ma’s defection means Mr. Carney’s Liberal government is just one seat shy of a majority. 

Robyn Urback: Conservatives persist with cute legislative tricks, while the government tries to run a country

One more and the Conservatives can say goodbye to dreams of taking power in a year or two. Mr. Carney could more or less count on remaining Prime Minister till 2029. One more would leave Mr. Poilievre struggling to cling to the opposition benches for nearly four years. And the Liberals, sincerely or not, are talking about more than one.

Party insiders still think Mr. Poilievre will sail through the leadership review vote in Calgary at the end of January. But another defection would have to make it a little more dicey. Even worse for the Conservatives is the prospect that Mr. Poilievre’s victory would be followed by more defections, leaving him weakened.

Potential political disaster is now hanging over Mr. Poilievre, threatening to fall on his head at any time. 

Upset Conservatives can complain that that the Liberals who have lured floor-crossers are cynical and self-interested, and that some MPs turn out to be self-centred politicians, but hey, none of those are new variables.

Now that there have been two defections, there is pretty unshakable evidence that something has gone wrong in Mr. Poilievre’s Conservative Party. 

His job, after all, is leader, and leading an opposition caucus is, in large part, about keeping it together.

Lawrence Martin: It’s turning-point time for the Conservatives and NDP – but don’t expect much

There have long been tales of Conservative MPs chafing under the heavy-handed diktats of Mr. Poilievre’s leadership, notably those from his former top campaign strategist and constant adviser Jenni Byrne.

Mr. d’Entremont said some of his constituents had told him they didn’t like the party’s leadership style. Mr. Ma said he wanted to “focus on solutions, not division.”

Mr. MacKinnon was happy to tell reporters that he knows there are other Conservative MPs who are unhappy with Mr. Poilievre’s “obstruction” and suggested they look across the aisle in the Commons and see a serious Prime Minister keen to get things done.

There’s often a personal aspect to floor-crossing, when MPs feel out of favour or that their talents aren’t recognized. 

And then it could be electoral self-interest. Both Mr. d’Entremont and Mr. Ma hold swing ridings and they might have figured they would be more likely to keep their seats as Liberals. If so, that’s not a good advertisement for Mr. Poilievre’s leadership, either.

When Mr. d’Entremont quit the Tory team five weeks ago, a reporter asked Mr. Poilievre if he would reflect on his leadership and got a flat “no.” He snarked journalists for asking if there was a problem.

But another Conservative MP rumoured to have considered defecting, Matt Jeneroux, suddenly announced he plans to resign from the Commons altogether, and denied in a statement that he had been coerced. Now, Mr. Ma has left, too. 

Sure, Mr. Poilievre might hope that the Liberals face something of a backlash for what appears to be an attempt to win a majority by floor-crossing. 

But for Mr. Poilievre, the game is now Survivor, and Mr. Carney is flipping players like Boston Rob.

When he casts the blame on Mr. Ma for joining the party he ran against eight months ago, it underlines the question about why. 

Now Mr. Poilievre’s leadership is dangling on a nervous string. He can’t be sure that winning a leadership review vote means it’s over. Even then, there will still be the fear that one more defector could spell the end.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/opinion/article-pierre-poilievre-leadership-potential-disaster/

[ExFlyer]

12 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

 

Potential disaster looms over Pierre Poilievre’s leadership
 

 

 

Losing one MP to the Liberals may be regarded as a misfortune. Losing two smacks of carelessness. Now Pierre Poilievre’s Conservative leadership is really in danger. Even a victory in the upcoming leadership review in January won’t necessarily make it safe.

Now, Mr. Poilievre will be looking over his shoulder and into the shadows. Maybe one more of his MPs will defect before party delegates convene in Calgary to vote on his leadership. Or just after he wins. Liberal House Leader Steven MacKinnon declared Friday that there are other dissatisfied Conservative MPs. He might as well have sneaked up behind Mr. Poilievre and shouted “boo!”

That is how things have changed since Thursday night, when Markham-Unionville MP Michael Ma announced he is leaving the Conservatives and crossing the floor to the Liberals.

It was bad enough for Mr. Poilievre when Nova Scotia MP Chris d’Entremont crossed the floor on the day of the federal budget. But then, things seemed to stabilize. Now, Mr. Ma’s defection means Mr. Carney’s Liberal government is just one seat shy of a majority. 

Robyn Urback: Conservatives persist with cute legislative tricks, while the government tries to run a country

One more and the Conservatives can say goodbye to dreams of taking power in a year or two. Mr. Carney could more or less count on remaining Prime Minister till 2029. One more would leave Mr. Poilievre struggling to cling to the opposition benches for nearly four years. And the Liberals, sincerely or not, are talking about more than one.

Party insiders still think Mr. Poilievre will sail through the leadership review vote in Calgary at the end of January. But another defection would have to make it a little more dicey. Even worse for the Conservatives is the prospect that Mr. Poilievre’s victory would be followed by more defections, leaving him weakened.

Potential political disaster is now hanging over Mr. Poilievre, threatening to fall on his head at any time. 

Upset Conservatives can complain that that the Liberals who have lured floor-crossers are cynical and self-interested, and that some MPs turn out to be self-centred politicians, but hey, none of those are new variables.

Now that there have been two defections, there is pretty unshakable evidence that something has gone wrong in Mr. Poilievre’s Conservative Party. 

His job, after all, is leader, and leading an opposition caucus is, in large part, about keeping it together.

Lawrence Martin: It’s turning-point time for the Conservatives and NDP – but don’t expect much

There have long been tales of Conservative MPs chafing under the heavy-handed diktats of Mr. Poilievre’s leadership, notably those from his former top campaign strategist and constant adviser Jenni Byrne.

Mr. d’Entremont said some of his constituents had told him they didn’t like the party’s leadership style. Mr. Ma said he wanted to “focus on solutions, not division.”

Mr. MacKinnon was happy to tell reporters that he knows there are other Conservative MPs who are unhappy with Mr. Poilievre’s “obstruction” and suggested they look across the aisle in the Commons and see a serious Prime Minister keen to get things done.

There’s often a personal aspect to floor-crossing, when MPs feel out of favour or that their talents aren’t recognized. 

And then it could be electoral self-interest. Both Mr. d’Entremont and Mr. Ma hold swing ridings and they might have figured they would be more likely to keep their seats as Liberals. If so, that’s not a good advertisement for Mr. Poilievre’s leadership, either.

When Mr. d’Entremont quit the Tory team five weeks ago, a reporter asked Mr. Poilievre if he would reflect on his leadership and got a flat “no.” He snarked journalists for asking if there was a problem.

But another Conservative MP rumoured to have considered defecting, Matt Jeneroux, suddenly announced he plans to resign from the Commons altogether, and denied in a statement that he had been coerced. Now, Mr. Ma has left, too. 

Sure, Mr. Poilievre might hope that the Liberals face something of a backlash for what appears to be an attempt to win a majority by floor-crossing. 

But for Mr. Poilievre, the game is now Survivor, and Mr. Carney is flipping players like Boston Rob.

When he casts the blame on Mr. Ma for joining the party he ran against eight months ago, it underlines the question about why. 

Now Mr. Poilievre’s leadership is dangling on a nervous string. He can’t be sure that winning a leadership review vote means it’s over. Even then, there will still be the fear that one more defector could spell the end.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/opinion/article-pierre-poilievre-leadership-potential-disaster/

There s a "potential" but, latest poll I saw indicated 58% still consider him to be and remain the leader.  "New data from the non-profit Angus Reid Institute finds a majority (58%) of recent Conservative voters want Poilievre to lead the CPC into the next election,"

"Poilievre remains a popular figure among the “definites”: 92 per cent have a favourable view and 75 per cent want him to stay on as leader. But those who are wavering in their support of the party have more doubts about his leadership as well. The “certainly consider” crowd are divided as to whether they want Poilievre to be the leader after January (40% stay, 38% leave), while the “maybes” want him to go (61% leave)."

https://angusreid.org/cpc-leadership-review-poilievre/

 

[eyeball]

20 hours ago, ironstone said:

Why are there more homeless people than ever before? Why is the number of food banks increasing?

It's called unsustainability. It's a global phenomenon...we're starting to exceed our planet's capacity to carry us. Not to mention our capacity for empathy.

It's getting easier to scrape 'em off. But I still worry about the doggies. My loose change goes into the CARE can.

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Awww upset at the down arrows....  try not earning them LOL

 

The reason you give down arrows is because you're so emotionally upset at the fact that nobody takes you seriously. I mean do you notice nobody else does that? It's just your way of saying that you're crying and you're hurt inside and you wish people would be your friend but nobody will.

You think that they're punishing people but I don't anyone else thinks is that it's like a blinker signal to the whole world that you look at yourself like a loser

It's the kind of thing you'd expect a 15-year-old kid to do when he feels his parents have been mean to him. Ohhh... wait...    

[ExFlyer]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The reason you give down arrows is because you're so emotionally upset at the fact that nobody takes you seriously. I mean do you notice nobody else does that? It's just your way of saying that you're crying and you're hurt inside and you wish people would be your friend but nobody will.

You think that they're punishing people but I don't anyone else thinks is that it's like a blinker signal to the whole world that you look at yourself like a loser

It's the kind of thing you'd expect a 15-year-old kid to do when he feels his parents have been mean to him. Ohhh... wait...    

I give down arrows to those that earn them. No fuss, no muss, just as I see it and it is all up to me.

So, am I concerned about the feelings or opinion of an admitted pedophile? No, not at all. 

You are just a LOSER and prove it every whining and deflecting post you make.

So, just keep proving you are a LOSER..., not being able to stay on topic too  LOL LOL LOL

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by ExFlyer

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I give down arrows to those that earn them.

 

You give down arrows because your emotionally crippled and have no other way to strike back. You're a small little kid emotionally and the fact that other people look at you with contempt makes you angry and this is one of the only ways you have to strike back.

Hell you wake up most mornings and run around looking for all my posts to down arrow. That's not normal behavior. You wouldn't even have time to read them all based on how quick you do it so all you're doing is just finding my posts and down early

That tells every single person on this forum that you're weak, your crippled emotionally, and that you're probably under the age of 18. This is why so many people are ready to believe you're and adolescent. Kids going through puberty would do that

As it is nobody cares except you. If it makes you feel better it helps you get through your day dealing with your school work and acne then so be it. But let's not pretend that it's anything other than it really is or that all of us don't understand  or see it.

I'm sure you think you're clever, but all of us were kids once and we can see right through you

[Goddess]

17 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Now show the evidence that they do through this organization.  

 

I've said this repeatedly but I'll say it again - Sam Cooper has been investigating Chinese influence on Canada's real estate, political system, drug cartels, etc for over a decade.

He has testified in front of the Canadian Parliament and the US Senate and Congress.  He works closely with the FBI in the US.

You can check out his website, The Bureau.

You can read his book "Willful Blindness".

You won't, though.

[Zeitgeist]

The problem isn’t Poilievre, it’s that Canadians have been taught to fear conservatives, even moderate ones like Poilievre.  Basically Canada is a de facto one party system these days.  It seems that the Conservatives can’t get elected unless they’re Liberals.  

Edited December 13, 2025 by Zeitgeist

[Goddess]

10 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

But if the inputs to the system were as the designers assumed - with each stakeholder, knowing that God was watching, acting with a modicum of virtue - the system would work exactly as it did during the olden "good old days".

This is very true.

I remember an interview with Michael Barrett where he said exactly this.  Up until about 10 years ago, there were a lot of things about serving in government, serving in Parliament that were basically "gentlemen's agreements".  Accepted practice.  Assumption that most things did not need "rules", per se, as they were just part of ethical, moral behaviour.

This Liberal party, under Justin Trudeau, blew all that out of the water.  If there isn't a specific rule, they just do whatever they want, insist they meant no harm "trust me, bro", and when they get caught, declare the whole episode "a learning experience for Canadians".  (Not for themselves, though.)

It's the only time in history that the Ethics Commissioner of Canda recommended an entire political party go back for ethical training.

It's why the Conservatives created an entire new Accountability Act and had it ready and waiting for this last election.  To close up the "gentlemen's agreements" and put rules in place.

But none of you wanted accountability because orangemanbad.

[ExFlyer]

52 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You give down arrows because 

Man, you do a lot of splaining for yourself. Are you having any luck convincing yourself LOL LOL LOL

Only a true LOSER needs so much banter to make themselves feel better HA HA HA

Oh and like I said, I give down arrows to those that earn them.

Edited December 13, 2025 by ExFlyer

[ExFlyer]

14 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The problem isn’t Poilievre, it’s that Canadians have been taught to fear conservatives, even moderate ones like Poilievre.  Basically Canada is a de facto one party system these days.  It seems that the Conservatives can’t get elected unless they’re Liberals.  

By who? So, who are the teachers?

Liberals?

NDP?

Bloq?

Actually, seem like the conservatives can't get elected till they get a leader Canadians can believe in.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Zeitgeist said:

The problem isn’t Poilievre, it’s that Canadians have been taught to fear conservatives, even moderate ones like Poilievre.  Basically Canada is a de facto one party system these days.  It seems that the Conservatives can’t get elected unless they’re Liberals.  

Wow that's generally true it's even more true with trump in the white house. The liberals all run around screaming that if a conservative gets anywhere near a position of power they're going to be exactly like trump. 

It's going to be harder to win for as long as trump is in office, and depending on who wins after that it may be a problem for some time to come. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

There are acquaintances who specialize in telling us when we’ve lost weight and others who prefer to tell us when we’ve put it on. Both have their value. Poilievre has been getting feedback from across the political spectrum about his abrasive style and confrontational tactics that are poorly suited to the grave national crisis we face. He seems determined to ignore such counsel and may yet face the consequences of such obstinacy. 

Edited December 13, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

The problem isn’t Poilievre, it’s that Canadians have been taught to fear conservatives, even moderate ones like Poilievre.  Basically Canada is a de facto one party system these days.  It seems that the Conservatives can’t get elected unless they’re Liberals.  

The way you put that puts the blame on Canadian voters rather than the Conservative Party. Why not start by assuming the voter is right and tailoring the message to appeal to as many of them as possible on the right and centre of the spectrum? 

The problem is partly Poilievre. He flirted with some non-moderate ideas like crypto and support for the Convoy and his style has a MAGA flavour. I think he would have serious difficulty uniting Canadians. The Tories have chosen to move to the right and make people like PP the moderates in the party now rather than the likes of Charest. Polievre is considerably to the right of most Canadians. 
 

 

Edited December 13, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[SpankyMcFarland]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Lawrence Martin: It’s turning-point time for the Conservatives and NDP – but don’t expect much

With the right leader the NDP might have its major disaster in the rear view mirror. Carney has vacated some of the political space occupied on the left by JT and has created a vacuum to fill. There’s definitely an opportunity there,