Potential for Poilievre to lose even more - another floor crosser crosses the floor

[blackbird]

14 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Perhaps Mr Ma's reasons are cumulative??? 

Perhaps he sees PP's decline in popularity and thereby making the party ineffective is something he can no longer tolerate?

Mr Polievere could not even be gracious to Mr Ma.  That seems to be the mindset of the party...or is it only the leader?

Why should PP be gracious to a traitor?   Have you ever seen Liberals be "gracious" to the Conservatives anywhere?

That's just politics.   Mr. Ma ran as a conservative but obviously he is no conservative.  He fooled his constituents and they are probably not happy with his decision.   He is purely an opportunist who saw a chance to get something from the Liberal party and jumped at it.   He is not to be trusted.  He is in it for himself, not the people who elected him.

[Shady]

Looks like Mr. Burns is trying to achieve a majority government without consent of voters.  It's a great way to make Canadians even more cynical about politics and the value of their vote.  Imagine making the effort to vote, and then watching your vote essentially nullified a few months later, through backroom dealings.

The Liberals don't care about undermining democracy.  They don't care if they make Canadians even more cynical.  It's all about power with them.  And if they have to erode Canadian institutions to do it, they won't blink an eye.  Don't be surprised when voter turnout drops even more than it has over the last several years.  You can vote for someone, they can win by a healthy margin, and you'll get the exact opposite outcome without any votes being cast.  And the Liberal clapping seal supporters are cheering it on.  

A sad day in Canada.

Edited December 12, 2025 by Shady

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

Looks like Mr. Burns is trying to achieve a majority government without consent of voters.  It's a great way to make Canadians even more cynical about politics and the value of their vote.  Imagine making the effort to vote, and then watching your vote essentially nullified a few months later, through backroom dealings.

The Liberals don't care about undermining democracy.  They don't care if they make Canadians even more cynical.  It's all about power with them.  And if they have to erode Canadian institutions to do it, they won't blink an eye.  Don't be surprised when voter turnout drops even more than it has over the last several years.  You can vote for someone, they can win by a healthy margin, and you'll get the exact opposite outcome without any votes being case.  

A sad day in Canada.

In our system no MP’s allegiance to a party is absolute, nor should it be. Floor crossings are a verdict of sorts on a party and its leader. 

[Moonbox]

8 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I would prefer to see it on a specific major issue, perhaps one of conscience. Of course, there are big public smiles for a floor crosser from the team getting bigger but the trustworthiness of such a person would have to be questioned. 

Perhaps, but as I said we rarely get a full view of the circumstances or situation.  

Since this is only the latest of 3 recent MP's who've crossed the floor or resigned in the last month or so, it's worth speculating whether there may be problems within the Party (or its leadership).  

Regardless of the optics, anything that gives individual MPs more agency and weakens the consolidation of party power  within the leadership is helpful in its own way.  

[ExFlyer]

15 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Maybe.

 

Yes.

 

In fairness, I wouldn’t fault any party leader for a visceral response immediately after such an event. It’s a shock. 

Maybe that is his issue...not thinking before making statements. Being gracious and gentlemanly and respectful goes a long way for your credibility. Always critical and demeaning says a lot about the personality.

[Shady]

8 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

In our system no MP’s allegiance to a party is absolute, nor should it be. Floor crossings are a verdict of sorts on a party and its leader. 

It's usurping the will of the people.  A floor crossing should require a by election.  The people of those ridings voted conservative.  In our system, you don't vote for a person, you vote for a party.

Edited December 12, 2025 by Shady

[ExFlyer]

4 hours ago, John Stone said:

.............. political hacks are generally opportunists ........moral character wrt supporting  Constituents vs. Party  is generally tempered against their popularity. 

That said, I'd say that IMO the Canucks are nowhere near as Partisan ........... separatist vote notwithstanding. 

I think, in the beginning, anyone that runs for politics has reasons that are admirable. The truly think thy can help their community and constituents.
I think that within a few months the reality of politics overcomes them and they realize they are peons and have to fall in line.

I think that they then either succumb to the party ways or, they have to make very tough decisions.

So, are the ones on the back bench living the party line and earning a pension the ones we want to be our voice on the hill or, do we applaud the ones that make difficult decisions and move to where they think they can contribute?

[SpankyMcFarland]

1 minute ago, Shady said:

It's usurping the will of the people.  A floor crossing should require a by election.  The people of those ridings voted conservative.

That viewpoint puts loyalty to the party above all other considerations but MPs are not party functionaries who have to unquestioningly follow the party line. It’s not our system, not yet anyway, thank goodness.
 

 

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I think, in the beginning, anyone that runs for politics has reasons that are admirable. The truly think thy can help their community and constituents.
I think that within a few months the reality of politics overcomes them and they realize they are peons and have to fall in line.

I think that they then either succumb to the party ways or, they have to make very tough decisions.

So, are the ones on the back bench living the party line and earning a pension the ones we want to be our voice on the hill or, do we applaud the ones that make difficult decisions and move to where they think they can contribute?

The more I see of politics, the more I admire politicians and what they have to go through these days. Thank God somebody still wants to do it.

[Shady]

2 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

That viewpoint puts loyalty to the party above all other considerations but MPs are not party functionaries who have to unquestioningly follow the party line. It’s not our system, not yet anyway, thank goodness.
 

 

The more I see of politics, the more I admire politicians and what they have to go through these days. Thank God somebody still wants to do it.

They actually are who have to and do unquestionably follow their party line, unless they resign.  Again, I understand that you like these crossings as a Liberal supporter.  But they are usurping the will of the people, and rendering elections moot.  Which is only going to produce more cynicism within the Canadian electorate.

[ironstone]

13 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

This is demonstrably not better for the economy.

To be clear, mass immigration is demonstrably not better for the economy.  Mass immigration does raise our GDP but in the same way that the continuous expansion of the public service does(expensive, non-productive jobs). Higher GDP but less important than per capita GDP, a measure where Canada has been lagging for years now.

Not to mention the other problems with mass immigration, like the porous vetting process which allows all sorts of undesirable types into the country.

Concerning Michael Ma, as more information comes out, it seems that yet another Canadian/Chinese MP has a rather cozy relationship to China. His priority will be to further China's interests. All parties need to really work on the vetting process for their candidates. Multiculturalism by it's very nature doesn't exactly encourage loyalty to Canada, but that's another story.

Are there any of these Canadian-Chinese politicians who are actually loyal to Canada instead of China?

[SpankyMcFarland]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

They actually are who have to and do unquestionably follow their party line, unless they resign.  Again, I understand that you like these crossings as a Liberal supporter.  But they are usurping the will of the people, and rendering elections moot.  Which is only going to produce more cynicism within the Canadian electorate.

I hope what should be clear from my posts is that I am ambivalent about floor crossings. My opinion on them hasn’t changed because the Liberals are in power at the moment. I believe they are a necessary evil, a somewhat unsavoury process whereby accountability by a party and its leader is preserved. No party can afford to take the support of its MPs for granted. 

 

 

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, Shady said:

They actually are who have to and do unquestionably follow their party line, unless they resign.  Again, I understand that you like these crossings as a Liberal supporter.  But they are usurping the will of the people, and rendering elections moot.  Which is only going to produce more cynicism within the Canadian electorate.

In his statement, Ma said "Ma said, “After listening carefully to the people of Markham–Unionville in recent weeks and reflecting with my family on the direction of our country, I have informed the Speaker and the Leader of the Opposition that I will be joining Prime Minister Mark Carney in the government caucus.”

Seems he made the right decision and his constituents agreed so, no usupring the will of the people at all.

It goes on:

"A senior Conservative strategist, who was granted anonymity to discuss internal party matters, told Global News that Ma’s departure is another blow to Poilievre’s leadership as the party’s grassroots prepares to meet in Calgary next month.

The source went so far as to suggest the Conservative leader should take his own walk in the snow over the holiday break, referencing the phrase that former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau used when announcing how he came to his own decision to resign as prime minister decades ago.

“MPs aren’t leaving because they’ve suddenly become Liberals. They’re leaving because Pierre has made the Conservative tent uninhabitable,” the source said.

“Hopefully he uses the Christmas break to realize that the only departure that will actually stop the bleeding is his own.”"

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

This is our system of government. We elect MPs, not parties. How they organize is their business. 

No it isn't.

[SpankyMcFarland]

6 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

No it isn't.

You are welcome to try and change our system if you don’t like it. 

[Goddess]

15 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

That is where the votes are. 

I always get the impression that you would be happy having only one political party in Canada, as long as it was the Liberal party.

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

That is due to his own party.  

We spend over $2 billion every year for refugees to sit on their a$$es.

You can't think of anything better to spend that $2 billion on?

[Goddess]

9 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

PP needs to resign as leader.

I don't think it matters in Canada any more who is leading the Conservative party.

We will never have another Conservative government in Canada.  We will never have an NDP government.  It will only be Liberal governments for the long foreseeable future.

Here's why:

• The Chinese only want a Liberal government and they are free to interfere in our elections in any way they like, to make that happen.  Parliament voted almost 2 years ago for a foreign agent registry and the Liberals are refusing to do that.  For a reason.
• We are bringing in millions of people every year who will vote Liberal, because they also want all their family and friends to come here and only the Liberals are promising to do that and also keep it so there is never any expectation that they become contributing members of society.  Free handouts for life.
• The die-hard Liberal voters in Canada do not vote based on policies or what is best for Canada.  They will only ever vote Liberal.  No matter what.
• Our media is funded almost entirely by the Liberals.  They are now getting $1.4 billion every year - and that will continue going up every year - to campaign for the Liberal party.  No other party even has a hope of ever competing with that kind of campaign funding.
• Canadians, as a whole, are an apathetic electorate.

 

As anyone with eyes can see - the money is going to run out soon.  Liberals continue to strangle industry in Canada.

When that time comes, politicians will flee the country - like they've done in every country that's become bankrupt from corruption - pockets filled with the last of the treasury.

Perhaps, hopefully, we will have another election.

Canadians will vote in whoever is running for the Liberal party and the grift will continue.

Canada is done.  Finished.

Edited December 12, 2025 by Goddess

[ExFlyer]

23 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I always get the impression that you would be happy having only one political party in Canada, as long as it was the Liberal party.

 

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

We spend over $2 billion every year for refugees to sit on their a$$es.

You can't think of anything better to spend that $2 billion on?

 

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I don't think it matters in Canada any more who is leading the Conservative party.

We will never have another Conservative government in Canada.  We will never have an NDP government.  It will only be Liberal governments for the long foreseeable future.

Here's why:

• The Chinese only want a Liberal government and they are free to interfere in our elections in any way they like, to make that happen.  Parliament voted almost 2 years ago for a foreign agent registry and the Liberals are refusing to do that.  For a reason.
• We are bringing in millions of people every year who will vote Liberal, because they also want all their family and friends to come here and only the Liberals are promising to do that.
• The die-hard Liberal voters in Canada do not vote based on policies or what is best for Canada.  They will only ever vote Liberal.  No matter what.
• Our media is funded almost entirely by the Liberals.  They are now getting $1.4 billion every year - and that will continue going up every year - to campaign for the Liberal party.  No other party even has a hope of ever competing with that kind of campaign funding.
• Canadians, as a whole, are an apathetic electorate.

 

 

This is about another defection from Conservative to Liberal, not about your political beliefs.

He made a decision based on his constituents. He did not need to check with you, LOL

"Ma said, “After listening carefully to the people of Markham–Unionville in recent weeks and reflecting with my family on the direction of our country, I have informed the Speaker and the Leader of the Opposition that I will be joining Prime Minister Mark Carney in the government caucus.”

Seems he made the right decision and his constituents agreed so, no usupring the will of the people at all.

It goes on:

"A senior Conservative strategist, who was granted anonymity to discuss internal party matters, told Global News that Ma’s departure is another blow to Poilievre’s leadership as the party’s grassroots prepares to meet in Calgary next month.

The source went so far as to suggest the Conservative leader should take his own walk in the snow over the holiday break, referencing the phrase that former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau used when announcing how he came to his own decision to resign as prime minister decades ago.

“MPs aren’t leaving because they’ve suddenly become Liberals. They’re leaving because Pierre has made the Conservative tent uninhabitable,” the source said.

“Hopefully he uses the Christmas break to realize that the only departure that will actually stop the bleeding is his own.”"

[Goddess]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

 

 

This is about another defection from Conservative to Liberal, not about your political beliefs.

He made a decision based on his constituents. He did not need to check with you, LOL

"Ma said, “After listening carefully to the people of Markham–Unionville in recent weeks and reflecting with my family on the direction of our country, I have informed the Speaker and the Leader of the Opposition that I will be joining Prime Minister Mark Carney in the government caucus.”

Seems he made the right decision and his constituents agreed so, no usupring the will of the people at all.

It goes on:

"A senior Conservative strategist, who was granted anonymity to discuss internal party matters, told Global News that Ma’s departure is another blow to Poilievre’s leadership as the party’s grassroots prepares to meet in Calgary next month.

The source went so far as to suggest the Conservative leader should take his own walk in the snow over the holiday break, referencing the phrase that former prime minister Pierre Elliott Trudeau used when announcing how he came to his own decision to resign as prime minister decades ago.

“MPs aren’t leaving because they’ve suddenly become Liberals. They’re leaving because Pierre has made the Conservative tent uninhabitable,” the source said.

“Hopefully he uses the Christmas break to realize that the only departure that will actually stop the bleeding is his own.”"

I already read your previous post with exactly the same thing.

WTF, little boy?

[John Stone]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I think, in the beginning, anyone that runs for politics has reasons that are admirable. The truly think thy can help their community and constituents.
I think that within a few months the reality of politics overcomes them and they realize they are peons and have to fall in line.

I think that they then either succumb to the party ways or, they have to make very tough decisions.

So, are the ones on the back bench living the party line and earning a pension the ones we want to be our voice on the hill or, do we applaud the ones that make difficult decisions and move to where they think they can contribute?

........... yeah, it's called being challenged in a party primary - the threat is very effective. 

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I already read your previous post with exactly the same thing.

WTF, little boy?

Duhhh no.

Never said anything about refugees.

Never said anything about the Chinese

Never said anything bout a single party

Never said anything that you seem to imagine.

Only said that Ma conferred with his constituents and made a decision.

You seem to have reading and comprehension problems .

[Moonbox]

25 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You seem to have reading and comprehension problems .

Karen's been doing her own research again...on Facebook. 

[TreeBeard]

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Concerning Michael Ma, as more information comes out, it seems that yet another Canadian/Chinese MP has a rather cozy relationship to China.

How so?  
 

He emigrated from Hong Kong to Canada at age 12.  Not sure if you know this, but Hong Kong was not part of China until recently. 

 

2 hours ago, ironstone said:

Higher GDP but less important than per capita GDP, a measure where Canada has been lagging for years now.

Not true.  It has ups and downs, but the increase is obvious.  
 

 

The data are from statista.com

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

You are welcome to try and change our system if you don’t like it. 

I'd rather see greater effort made to underscore the fact things like political parties and a PM are not mentioned in our Constitution.

6 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

This is our system of government. We elect MPs, not parties. How they organize is their business. 

It looks and feels more like they've captured the business of organizing our system of government to suit their purposes not ours.

[Goddess]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

We will never have another Conservative government in Canada.  We will never have an NDP government.  It will only be Liberal governments for the long foreseeable future.

On the other hand, this will make Alberta independence explode.  Not a bad thing.

And Sask is seriously thinking separating.

There's rumblings in Manitoba, too.

The gravy train to the East would be shut down.