Canada's high level of immigration.

[I am Groot]

41 minutes ago, carepov said:

My guess is that that Ontario has the highest immigration rate. In the 20 years from 2001-2020 the population grew from 11.7 million to 14.2 million, an increase of 21 %.  NY population growth was 4 %.

Important to note that your chart is per capita, therefore while the NY economy increased by just over 1.4 % annually, Ontario's economy increased by 1.8% annually (https://www.statista.com/statistics/577539/gdp-of-ontario-canada/).

GDP growth and GDP per capita are both important.  But to pay off debt (the concern that you raised), more important is GDP growth.

GDP per capita is BY FAR the most important because it measures the growth of wealth. All GDP does is here reflect the growing size of the population. And it's not going to help us pay off debt if a major chunk of the immigrants aren't paying taxes. And as we know given the well-known argument that immigrants take the 'jobs Canadians won't' a major chunk of them are indeed in minimum wage jobs. They're not only NOT paying taxes but the rest of us have to be taxed extra to pay their share for things like healthcare.

If our immigration made sense it might help, but it's not designed to help our economy. It's designed to help the Liberal party. You think Trudeau has promised (and kept that promise) to increase the number of elderly immigrants who can be sponsored here during every election because it will help Canada? The Tories pinned that number back and froze it at 5,000 a year due to the healthcare costs and because a quarter of them were winding up on welfare. Trudeau doubled that after his first election, then doubled it again after his second. It's now 30,000. And I bet he promises to increase it again next election.

[I am Groot]

Here is another lovely chart showing the GDP per capita growth of our powerfully charged economies under heavy immigration with uh, a ton of other people who don't have that population growth but are waaaay ahead of us in terms of growth. 

[eyeball]

On 7/16/2023 at 7:12 AM, I am Groot said:

All but skilled immigration should be halted

 

On 7/16/2023 at 8:23 AM, Perspektiv said:

We are in full agreement here.

So what do you think will happen if we high grade immigrants and leave their country's of origin bereft of the skilled people they need to build a place where people want to stay?

You seem to be missing the fact this will only cause more migrants to want to follow.

[CdnFox]

33 minutes ago, eyeball said:

 

So what do you think will happen if we high grade immigrants and leave their country's of origin bereft of the skilled people they need to build a place where people want to stay?

Not our problem. 

Quote

You seem to be missing the fact this will only cause more migrants to want to follow.

Also not our problem.

Why would we even care about any of that?

[carepov]

10 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Here is another lovely chart showing the GDP per capita growth of our powerfully charged economies under heavy immigration with uh, a ton of other people who don't have that population growth but are waaaay ahead of us in terms of growth. 

1) The chart tells us nothing about growth rates.

2) I see no link to immigration.

[I am Groot]

3 hours ago, carepov said:

1) The chart tells us nothing about growth rates.

2) I see no link to immigration.

1) Given we used to have a higher GDP per capita than most other advanced economies I think it's patently obvious what this says about growth rates.

2) You choose not to. If immigration brought higher GDP per capita, ie, better productivity and wealth, then Ontario would be at the top of that chart, not near the bottom. But immigration doesn't. What brings higher growth is low taxes, low regulation, and encouraging investment in research and development. Immigration has become a crutch for Canadian business, though. Why invest in labour saving devices or technology to increase productivity when you can just import cheap foreign labor or cheap immigrants? 

[I am Groot]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

 

So what do you think will happen if we high grade immigrants and leave their country's of origin bereft of the skilled people they need to build a place where people want to stay?

You seem to be missing the fact this will only cause more migrants to want to follow.

A billion migrants want to come here already. The problem isn't how many want to come. The problem is a legal system that is calcified and takes forever to decide cases. Ideally, asylum applicants should be detained, given a hearing within a week or two, then deported if they fail. Which most should. Instead, it takes years before they even begin their first hearing. Then years more for their case to make its way through the maze of legalities and appeals before we can hope to deport them. And by then, they know the place well enough to simply hide.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

The problem isn't how many want to come.

It's the biggest problem actually. The result of other problems and issues you simply choose to wish and ignore away.

[CITIZEN_2015]

3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

A billion migrants want to come here already. T

And make this best country in the world one of the worst, a third world. Yes immigration is good for the country at the RIGHR level (150,000 per year) and RIGHT type (skillful and adopted to our culture of equal rights and freedom) but immigration levels are way too high and not the right type in my view.

[I am Groot]

2 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's the biggest problem actually. The result of other problems and issues you simply choose to wish and ignore away.

I never ignore problems. I look to the future to see problems most people on the Left aren't interested in.

At the same time, I'm not going to decide on a solution to something that is immensely expensive yet will accomplish nothing.

For example. What happens when we have Indo-Canadians and climate change starts making India a worse and worse place to live and they demand we let their extended families in? 

Well, you might say, then we should get serious about climate change. To which I reply "Why? India isn't?" And nothing we do other than perhaps becoming a large LNG exporter to lessen demand for coal, will have any noticeable impact on climate change.

Edited July 18, 2023 by I am Groot

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Well, you might say, then we should get serious about climate change. To which I reply "Why? India isn't?" And nothing we do other than perhaps becoming a large LNG exporter to lessen demand for coal, will have any noticeable impact on climate change.

I suggest we build the biggest nuclear reactors on Earth and run power cables to all the places on Earth that need clean energy.

We'll make a killing and solve most of the CO2 emission problem in the same stroke.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I suggest we build the biggest nuclear reactors on Earth and run power cables to all the places on Earth that need clean energy.

We'll make a killing and solve most of the CO2 emission problem in the same stroke.

Strangely - the environmentalists would never go for it.

[CITIZEN_2015]

The level of immigration at this time is not logical simply because it is not logical to bring in people from outside into your home when you don't have rooms for your own children.

New report indicates high level of immigration and rising interest rates causing the unaffordable rental prices. Those with minimum wage in 93% of the areas cannot afford to rent. 

[West]

I see on the nightly news that Trudeau is dropping a hundred million on the Somalians housing in Toronto while his own senior citizens, students and the disabled go without. 

Somalia first 

Edited July 19, 2023 by West

[cougar]

6 hours ago, eyeball said:

I suggest we build the biggest nuclear reactors on Earth and run power cables to all the places on Earth that need clean energy.

We'll make a killing and solve most of the CO2 emission problem in the same stroke.

Before we build those, the Earths population will probably decline with people dying off from heat, floods and hurricanes.

It has started slowly and it will likely accelerate.  Many will die from starvation too, once the land stops to produce food.

Edited July 19, 2023 by cougar

[myata]

8 hours ago, West said:

Somalia first 

Yes he can. What?

[carepov]

On 7/18/2023 at 11:16 AM, I am Groot said:

1) Given we used to have a higher GDP per capita than most other advanced economies I think it's patently obvious what this says about growth rates.

2) You choose not to. If immigration brought higher GDP per capita, ie, better productivity and wealth, then Ontario would be at the top of that chart, not near the bottom. But immigration doesn't. What brings higher growth is low taxes, low regulation, and encouraging investment in research and development. Immigration has become a crutch for Canadian business, though. Why invest in labour saving devices or technology to increase productivity when you can just import cheap foreign labor or cheap immigrants? 

So I wonder how New York got to the top of that list?

[Moonlight Graham]

On 7/14/2023 at 9:15 PM, August1991 said:

Gimme a break.

The reason for high rents is because land prices are high. And why are land prices high?

I was recently in Portland Oregon. City regulations of land use are totally f*-up.

In Montreal, our land regulations are better but not perfect.

Portland, Oregon is a city where crazy people live.

Montreal is an island.  Where are you going to build on an island?

It is racist to curb immigration.  It doesn't matter if people can't get a family doctor, are waiting 12 hours in the ER, or can't find a place to live.

[August1991]

8 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

...

Montreal is an island.  Where are you going to build on an island?

It is racist to curb immigration.  It doesn't matter if people can't get a family doctor, are waiting 12 hours in the ER, or can't find a place to live.

Build up. Condos of 5 storeys - max. People prefer to live near one another.

=====

Our world problem is not a lack of children; it is a lack of educated children.

[eyeball]

On 7/14/2023 at 7:05 PM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

So you are claiming that the reason rental prices are skyrocketing is not because some 500.000 new arrivals land every year and competing with the very limited supply but rather the City regulations!!!!!. You give me a break. City councilors all over Canada in every City must be really stupid not to take actions

One of the biggest reasons for the limited supply of new housing within any city are regulations that councillors in cities all over Canada put in place to limit the development of new housing. These regulations are all too often at the behest of local residents and voters who fear their neighbourhoods will be subject to  crime and decreases in their property values.

Quote

Leslie Evans, executive director of the Federation of Calgary Communities, an umbrella organization of more than 100 community associations, says affordable housing developments often stir fears of increased crime rates and lower property values among locals, which aren't proven to be true.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6909852

No doubt there's also lots of fear over more immigrants.

City councilors all over Canada in every city it seems are loath to take action which is why senior provincial and maybe even federal governments will probably have to overrule municipal governments to force greater density that's also affordable.   

Edited July 22, 2023 by eyeball

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, August1991 said:

Build up. Condos of 5 storeys - max. People prefer to live near one another.

=====

Our world problem is not a lack of children; it is a lack of educated children.

People do not want to live near each other. Are you insane??

Canada's problem, and the western world's problem, is a lack of children.  The developing world has too many children and that's their problem.

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

One of the biggest reasons for the limited supply of new housing within any city are regulations that councillors in cities all over Canada put in place to limit the development of new housing. These regulations are all too often at the behest of local residents and voters who fear their neighbourhoods will be subject to  crime and decreases in their property values.

No doubt there's also lots of fear over more immigrants.

City councilors all over Canada in every city it seems are loath to take action which is why senior provincial and maybe even federal governments will probably have to overrule municipal governments to force greater density that's also affordable.   

Federal government can't "overrule" local governments, it doesn't work like that, per the constitution.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Federal government can't "overrule" local governments, it doesn't work like that, per the constitution.

They could twist provincial governments arms.

[CdnFox]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

They could twist provincial governments arms.

They certainly can, and they can incentivize them as well offering to share costs of new home related expenses or infrastructure to support the new homes.
 

They can also incentivize growth outside the cores with things like 'remote working' tax breaks and incentives which would be hugely popular and allow for the suburb and rural areas around cities to also be developed where it's a little easier to do so.

ANd of course - they can create a mandate that they will tie the number of immigrants and refugees allowed to the actual home / infrastructure construction numbers and by doing that they not only ease the burden but they shame provinces who are dragging their heels  -  "there are many people who want to come here but your premier is holding them back because he's incompetent, don't blame us for his lack of progress, maybe he hates immigrants".  LOLOL - not very nice but politically speaking it works wonders.

So yes -  leadership from the feds would go a long way.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

They could twist provincial governments arms.

Unfortunately the country is run like a joke at most levels so it doesn't really matter.   Politicians and CEOs are sociopaths that only care about themselves.

Given everything in the country is a mess I can't  believe the Liberals are still polling as high as they are.  If the CPC weren't such a bunch of homophobic dunces they'd be running away with it.

"Canada is back".  Imagine how arrogant you have to be to make that statement.