Canada's high level of immigration.

[ExFlyer]

5 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I was reading a post by a guy who'd immigrated here from India twenty years ago on another forum. He had lived in Brampton but had decided to move. He said Brampton no longer felt like it was a part of Canada anymore. How many other parts of Canada now resemble other areas of the world, and how many more will in future as Trudeau continues to increase immigration with brainless zeal?

So what of Canada's own homegrown culture? It's values, traditions, culture and history?

Every Chinatown in almost every city. Richmond BC is for sure China LOL Every Italian districts in almost every city. Every Greek area in almost every city. And so on.

Point is, every city has areas that resemble other parts of the world.

A valid question, what is "Canada's own homegrown culture" in your opinion?

[I am Groot]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Every Chinatown in almost every city. Richmond BC is for sure China LOL Every Italian districts in almost every city. Every Greek area in almost every city. And so on.

The population of Brampton is 600k and it's almost entirely populated by immigrants from Southeast Asia.

You can't compare it to Chinatowns or 'Greek areas'.

More than half the population of Toronto are immigrants. Vancouver is much the same. And those percentages rise yearly.

This is not something we've experienced before.

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

A valid question, what is "Canada's own homegrown culture" in your opinion?

I'm not a poet or a writer. I can't paint but I know art when I see it. The problem is much of our culture descends from the UK, and the Liberals have spent the last fifty years trying to destroy all traces of it in hopes that would make Canada more pleasing to Quebecers. What's left is a peaceful, tolerant and laid-back manner of thinking, acting and behaving that has unfortunately left us open to being wiped out without even putting up a fight. Because it would be too rude to protest.

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, carepov said:

To improve quality of life you need a growing economy. 

Immigration has not improved our quality of life. So... fail there.

1 hour ago, carepov said:

 

Immigrants contribute to Canada's economy.  Combine a growing economy with social programs/progressive taxation and you get:

"Canada’s overall poverty rate was estimated at 7.4% in 2021, up from 6.4% in 2020 and down from 14.5% in 2015."

Borrowing more than half a trillion dollars to spread around would be a more likely cause. But what happens when we have to pay it back? What happens when the payments rise so high, especially with the aid of inflation the borrowing has caused that we can't afford social programs anymore? 

 

[ExFlyer]

11 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The population of Brampton is 600k and it's almost entirely populated by immigrants from Southeast Asia.

You can't compare it to Chinatowns or 'Greek areas'.

More than half the population of Toronto are immigrants. Vancouver is much the same. And those percentages rise yearly.

This is not something we've experienced before.

I'm not a poet or a writer. I can't paint but I know art when I see it. The problem is much of our culture descends from the UK, and the Liberals have spent the last fifty years trying to destroy all traces of it in hopes that would make Canada more pleasing to Quebecers. What's left is a peaceful, tolerant and laid-back manner of thinking, acting and behaving that has unfortunately left us open to being wiped out without even putting up a fight. Because it would be too rude to protest.

I answered your questions with a valid response. Have you ever been to Richmond BC?  I can assure you there is no French/English signs.

Point is, there are many districts all over Canada when immigrants have gathered and settled, for decades.

Art, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder.

So bringing in Syrians, Chinese, Eastern European immigrants, Africans are all to please Quebecers?

[I am Groot]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

So, basically they are needed o_O

Why would I pay a Canadian 36$ an hour, for a job that pays 20$ an hour on the competitive end of the pay scale, because a bunch of slacktivists are so entitled, they would rather stay at home unemployed than work a job they feel they deserve, at a wage they feel entitled to, with experience and skills they don't possess?

You pay whatever the job needs to pay to get decent employees. You don't get to judge what it's 'worth'. The market does that. That's the nature of Capitalism. It's the same as a business charging whatever the market will bear for their product or service. 

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Why would I want to hire this headache, vs give an immigrant the high salary, and get a far better employee out of it?

The only purpose most employers serve is to employ people. We don't need more employers than we have Canadians to employ. The surplus will have to make their jobs seem more attractive to the population or close. This is basic business. You say why should you be required to pay more to that Canadian when you want to bring in a foreigner who can work for less? Why should we pay more for your service or product when we can get it cheaper from Bangladesh? Just cut all tariffs on imports.

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I can increase my fees to make up for this. But for someone to come in knowing the average person gets paid 16$ an hour in this field (19$ on the high scale), yet am offering you 23$, and you're going to be rude during the interview because you want 38$ or bust?

So this is basically unskilled labour. So it's likely something that will be replaced within the next decade or two by automation. Why should bring in hordes of unskilled immigrants who are likely to soon lose their ability to work? Will you pay for their upkeep afterward? Perhaps for the rest of their lives?

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Have you had shawarma recently? Greek food? Chinese take out? Essentially anything outside of purely Canadian staples?

No.

 

[I am Groot]

Just now, ExFlyer said:

I answered your questions with a valid response. Have you ever been to Richmond BC?  I can assure you there is no French/English signs.

Point is, there are many districts all over Canada when immigrants have gathered and settled, for decades.

Not in these numbers. The long, sustained high level of immigration is turning whole cities - like Richmond - into foreign lands and pushing Canadians out. What other country in the world would tolerate that?

[ExFlyer]

28 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Not in these numbers. The long, sustained high level of immigration is turning whole cities - like Richmond - into foreign lands and pushing Canadians out. What other country in the world would tolerate that?

Actually, being from Vancouver, Richmond has been that way for many many decades.

Canadians can do and live wherever they wish. If they choose Richmond or Brampton, so be it.

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Number of Foreign-Born Residents (Immigrants) - United Nations 2020:

• United States — 50.6 million.
• Germany — 15.8 million.
• Saudi Arabia — 13.5 million.
• Russia — 11.6 million.
• United Kingdom — 9.4 million.
• United Arab Emirates — 8.7 million.
• France — 8.5 million.
• Canada — 8.0 million.
•  
• https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-count

[Perspektiv]

35 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You pay whatever the job needs to pay to get decent employees.

Thats part of the problem.

If the younger pool of employees is often  overly demanding, lazy and entitled (with little in the likes of experience and demonstrable skills), why not just hire outside of that pool, that is far more proven?

Many employers are finding more success in hiring older staff, or immigrants. Am no different. All my staff are older than me.

You clearly don't understand business, if you feel a viable solution to staffing shortages, is to increase your payroll by 5 to 10$/H, but hiring uncertain staff which are demonstrating high entitlement and poor team spirit right at the interview. I would rather come close to that 5$, hiring someone who showcases the opposite.

Why not hire older, and benefit from the leadership, organizational and reliability you will get, instead?

It's not a coincidence if you are see a lot older employees.

Same can be said for immigrants, who often come in with high education levels  and are chomping at the bit for someone to give them a chance.

Type of employee you build around your team.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

You don't get to judge what it's 'worth'.

What do you think a resume is? Other than judging what your services could be worth to my business? Otherwise, why wouldn't you just show up and tell me: "trust me, I have done all this" and make the hire.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Why should we pay more for your service or product when we can get it cheaper from Bangladesh?

That should be part of your mission statement. 

I don't get more clientele because am nice.

I get more clientele, because what our business brings to the table. Our unrivaled quality.

Our willingness to go above and beyond, and hiring those who buy into this.

My wife's business is doing great, because her products are second to none. Her attentive service, and after service. She treats you like a friend, but don't let that fool you, as is insanely knowledgeable about her product.

She hires staff who embody this. Your reputation is the cornerstone of your success. 

Canadians value great service.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

The only purpose most employers serve is to employ people.

A smart employer will also want to be a pillar to their community, and supportive to their staff.

You aren't doing the customer a favor by serving them. They are doing a favor to you, by not only choosing you, but remaining loyal to you, with competitors surrounding you. 

Happy staff, reflect the ownership of the business. More importantly, helps ensure the customer also remains happy.

Fish usually stinks from its head.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Why should bring in hordes of unskilled immigrants who are likely to soon lose their ability to work? 

Thats why we provide full benefits and life insurance o_O

Hiring is high risk, but understanding how to reduce those risks is key, as bad hires cost way more than the salary hike you provided them.

1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

No

Okay, then fine. Enjoy the limited foods that you get in eating strictly Canadian, or accept that immigration is needed here.

I hope you appreciate that pizza is Italian. 

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Actually, being from Vancouver, Richmond has been that way for many many decades.

Canadians can do and live wherever they wish. If they choose Richmond or Brampton, so be it.

Top 10 Countries with the Highest Number of Foreign-Born Residents (Immigrants) - United Nations 2020:

• United States — 50.6 million.
• Germany — 15.8 million.
• Saudi Arabia — 13.5 million.
• Russia — 11.6 million.
• United Kingdom — 9.4 million.
• United Arab Emirates — 8.7 million.
• France — 8.5 million.
• Canada — 8.0 million.
•  
• https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/immigration-by-count

What do you know, bigger countries have more foreign-born people. Duh.

This is an irrelevant list. Canada has a higher PERCENTAGE of foreign-born than all of them except the UAE and the Saudis, and their foreign-born have no rights. And that percentage is growing fast.

Immigrants make up 13.6% of the US population, btw, and 23% of ours

[ExFlyer]

10 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

What do you know, bigger countries have more foreign-born people. Duh.

This is an irrelevant list. Canada has a higher PERCENTAGE of foreign-born than all of them except the UAE and the Saudis, and their foreign-born have no rights. And that percentage is growing fast.

Immigrants make up 13.6% of the US population, btw, and 23% of ours

Hey, you asked the question "What other country in the world would tolerate that?".

I gave you an answer.
Don't be pissed that you got an answer LOL

[BeaverFever]

8 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I was reading a post by a guy who'd immigrated here from India twenty years ago on another forum. He had lived in Brampton but had decided to move. He said Brampton no longer felt like it was a part of Canada anymore.

So you probably don’t realize it but your anecdote is an example of someone who immigrated to Canada, assimilated and eventually preferred to be with his fellow Canadians rather than other immigrants from his native homeland. Kind of contradicts the anti-immigrant rhetoric that non-white immigrants don’t assimilate. 
 

Even though this man now identifies as Canadian I wonder how many anti-immigration type would’ve ever consider him or his descendants fellow Canadians?  Despite the fact that he’s been here for decades I bet all the anti-immigration types would see is the dark skin and all they would hear is foreign accent and they would treat him no differently a no-good immigrant who arrived yesterday and ought to fo back where he came from. 

[I am Groot]

55 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

So you probably don’t realize it but your anecdote is an example of someone who immigrated to Canada, assimilated and eventually preferred to be with his fellow Canadians rather than other immigrants from his native homeland. Kind of contradicts the anti-immigrant rhetoric that non-white immigrants don’t assimilate. 

No one ever suggested NO immigrants assimilate, genius. And no one brought race into it but you.

Maybe you'd like to explain why 600,000 prefer to live apart from native-born Canadians and with 'their own kind' in Brampton.

[RedDog]

Utter lies proven. Natives are no such thing. They are descendants of immigrants from Asia. The western hemisphere was populated northe to south.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, RedDog said:

Utter lies proven. Natives are no such thing. They are descendants of immigrants from Asia. The western hemisphere was populated northe to south.

If that's the case then every person who ever lived outside Lucy's cave was an immigrant.  We're all the same.

 

[RedDog]

14 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If that's the case then every person who ever lived outside Lucy's cave was an immigrant.  We're all the same.

 

Absolutely 

[CdnFox]

56 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

If that's the case then every person who ever lived outside Lucy's cave was an immigrant.  We're all the same.

 

No, there genuinely were some people who evolved where they now live.  Aboriginals in Australia for example.  Some african peoples.

But you're correct that MOST populations around the world (not all) are in fact due to migration, and are 'of immigrant descent'.  Certainly all humans in north america fall into that category. Everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else at some point. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, there genuinely were some people who evolved where they now live.  Aboriginals in Australia for example.  Some african peoples.

But you're correct that MOST populations around the world (not all) are in fact due to migration, and are 'of immigrant descent'.  Certainly all humans in north america fall into that category. Everyone's ancestors came from somewhere else at some point. 

I was being overly general to make a point, but you sent me to check because I was unaware of that with regard to Australian aboriginals.

Britannica says this on the subject:

It is generally held that Australian Aboriginal peoples originally came from Asia via insular Southeast Asia (now Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, East Timor, Indonesia, and the Philippines) and have been in Australia for at least 45,000–50,000 years. On the basis of research at the Nauwalabila I and Madjedbebe archaeological sites in the Northern Territory, however, some scientists have claimed that early humans arrived considerably sooner, perhaps as early as 65,000 to 80,000 years ago. That conclusion is consistent with the argument made by some scholars that the migration of anatomically modern humans out of Africa and adjacent areas of Southwest Asia to South and Southeast Asia along the so-called Southern Route predated migration to Europe. Other scholars question the earlier dating of human arrival in Australia, which is based on the use of optically stimulated luminescence (measurement of the last time the sand in question was exposed to sunlight), because the Northern Territory sites are in areas of termite activity, which can displace artifacts downward to older levels.

Not arguing.  Discussing.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Australian-Aboriginal

Edited July 17, 2023 by bcsapper

[carepov]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Immigration has not improved our quality of life. So... fail there.

Borrowing more than half a trillion dollars to spread around would be a more likely cause. But what happens when we have to pay it back? What happens when the payments rise so high, especially with the aid of inflation the borrowing has caused that we can't afford social programs anymore? 

 

I guess that we should increase immigration to grow the economy and pay off the debt...

[myata]

death spi·ral

noun

noun: death spiral; plural noun: death spirals

1. 1.

   a spiraling downward path taken by an aircraft that is out of control.

   "the plane went into a death spiral and then a nose dive"

   • used in reference to a rapidly worsening situation, typically one that ends in disaster.

     "when demand dipped, it sent a lot of vineyards into a death spiral"
2. 2.

   (in pairs skating) a move in which the man pivots on one foot while the woman, stretched out almost parallel to the ice and holding on to his outstretched hand, circles around him with one skate on the ice.

   "the death spiral is performed by almost every skating pair"

[myata]

They have to do something (healthcare, stagnating living standard f@k the ratings, child poverty, drinking water, .. only the old, previous ones).

But what can they do? Only more of the same and at double the price. The eternal law of bureaucracy. No, can't get away from it, invalid choice. So, rapidly accumulating problems and the new ones popping up.

And merry folk like @CdnFox here want to believe that sticking another smiley sticker on the same rusty, whistling screeching and throttling thingy two centuries old not a single meaningful fix will make a lot of difference. But a different one, the blue one not red! and that will make all the difference.

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, myata said:

They have to do something (healthcare, stagnating living standard f@k the ratings, child poverty, drinking water, .. only the old, previous ones).

But what can they do? Only more of the same and at double the price. The eternal law of bureaucracy. No, can't get away from it, invalid choice. So, rapidly accumulating problems and the new ones popping up.

And merry folk like @CdnFox here want to believe that sticking another smiley sticker on the same rusty, whistling screeching and throttling thingy two centuries old not a single meaningful fix will make a lot of difference. But a different one, the blue one not red! and that will make all the difference.

Can you ever, make any sense at all???

[I am Groot]

10 hours ago, carepov said:

I guess that we should increase immigration to grow the economy and pay off the debt...

Remind me which of these places has the higher immigration rate?

[I am Groot]

1 hour ago, myata said:

They have to do something (healthcare, stagnating living standard f@k the ratings, child poverty, drinking water, .. only the old, previous ones).

But what can they do? Only more of the same and at double the price. The eternal law of bureaucracy. No, can't get away from it, invalid choice. So, rapidly accumulating problems and the new ones popping up.

And merry folk like @CdnFox here want to believe that sticking another smiley sticker on the same rusty, whistling screeching and throttling thingy two centuries old not a single meaningful fix will make a lot of difference. But a different one, the blue one not red! and that will make all the difference.

Healthcare is a self-inflicted wound. The federal and provincial governments froze the number of medical school and nursing school positions. The population grew and aged. Presto. We have a terrible shortage of doctors and nurses. Nothing to do with the economy. The solution is to increase the positions, which some, at least (Ontario) of the provinces are now doing.

Stagnating living standard. The solution is slash immigration, especially of unskilled people, and fine-tune the 'skilled' category. No more people with fake degrees. No more people whose skills can't be fairly easily integrated into the workplace. No more people without decent language skills.  Cut foreign workers back to mostly just agriculture and a few key areas. Slash the stultifying level of bureaucracy business has to cope with, especially the decades-long process for developing natural resources. Cut the number of public servants, and then cut taxes (after balancing the budget) And bring in free trade between the provinces.

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, bcsapper said:

I was being overly general to make a point, but you sent me to check because I was unaware of that with regard to Australian aboriginals.

Britannica says this on the subject:

It is generally held that Australian Aboriginal peoples originally came from Asia via insular Southeast Asia (now Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei, East Timor, Indonesia, and the Philippines) and have been in Australia for at least 45,000–50,000 years. On the basis of research at the Nauwalabila I and Madjedbebe archaeological sites in the Northern Territory, however, some scientists have claimed that early humans arrived considerably sooner, perhaps as early as 65,000 to 80,000 years ago. That conclusion is consistent with the argument made by some scholars that the migration of anatomically modern humans out of Africa and adjacent areas of Southwest Asia to South and Southeast Asia along the so-called Southern Route predated migration to Europe. Other scholars question the earlier dating of human arrival in Australia, which is based on the use of optically stimulated luminescence (measurement of the last time the sand in question was exposed to sunlight), because the Northern Territory sites are in areas of termite activity, which can displace artifacts downward to older levels.

Not arguing.  Discussing.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Australian-Aboriginal

Really - honestly i'd always heard they were one of the 'true" aboriginals. Of course, as time goes on more and more facts come to the surface.

Mind you - 65 thousand years..... if that's true i wonder how much different the people's today would be from their first ancestors in the area and at one point you'd call them a different 'race'?

But in the end, just goes to show that pretty much everyone is from somewhere else originally  

[carepov]

2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Remind me which of these places has the higher immigration rate?

My guess is that that Ontario has the highest immigration rate. In the 20 years from 2001-2020 the population grew from 11.7 million to 14.2 million, an increase of 21 %.  NY population growth was 4 %.

Important to note that your chart is per capita, therefore while the NY economy increased by just over 1.4 % annually, Ontario's economy increased by 1.8% annually (https://www.statista.com/statistics/577539/gdp-of-ontario-canada/).

GDP growth and GDP per capita are both important.  But to pay off debt (the concern that you raised), more important is GDP growth.