carepov

By today's standards no this is not fair to some of the people living in Palestine 1900 to 1947. By the standards of 1900 to 1947 the immigration of Jews was much more fair than the typical "population transfers" of tens of millions of people around the world. Don't you think that it was only fair that the Jews established their own country on their ancestral land? Which Palestinians made the better choice: a) those who more or less cooperated with the Jews, accepted the Israeli state and whose 2 million descendants live peacefully and enjoy the benefits of being Israeli citizens? b) Those that did not recognize Israel and whose descendants make up the other 5 million living in Palestine? These kinds of comparisons between Israel and Canada (and China?) are ridiculous. Here's another one: what if is there was a constant barrage of rockets from Oka into Montreal, then a 10/7 type of attach occurred?

I suspect that Arab rulers want both: Peace between their country and Israel (hence Abraham accords) And ongoing conflict between Palestine and Israel uniting the "Arab street" in its hatred of Israel, nicely deflecting their attention away from corrupt rulers and the broken societies they lead.

I think that you are right on most points. However: I suspect most Arab leaders love the Palestine - Israel conflict as it is nice distraction for their population. Turkey and Israel were strong allies. The Abraham accords were significant too. And let's not forget, 2 million Muslims live in Israel peacefully. Be careful not to paint 1 billion Muslims with the same brush.

What about the hostages?

Here are the three things that I most admired about him as PM: 1. Strong stance against Apartheid 2. Free Trade 3. Replacing the hidden 13.5% manufacturers' sales tax with the GST. The unpopularity of this move is the main cause of the PC subsequent downfall, however it was a great move for the country.

Ok, thanks for the trolling lesson.

Are you claiming that Israelis rape,kill and kidnap then celebrate?

I don't know about popularity. I am completely mystified about how so many people today can celebrate the raping, killing and kidnapping of people. Do you have an explanation? What Israel is doing now will prevent future attacks.

Who said anything about an existential threat? They threaten to kill, rape, kidnap as many Jews as they possibly can. Do you find this acceptable?

Hamas fighters are hiding in all these places. I do not think that and I never said that. What I said was that there was a ceasefire on 10/6 and Hamas broke that ceasefire. This will not work. Hamas has said that they will continue to attack Israel until Hamas controls all of Palestine from the River to the Sea. Why don't you believe what they say?

Israel's only option is war. They are not indiscriminately bombing. Hate should be directed at Hamas. If they had not executed 10/7, breaking the ceasefire, there would be no war. If they released the hostages and surrendered, the war would end. Your turn.

Not even an idea? Not even some options? Yes, Hamas is a threat and they are eliminating the threat.

Yes, there was significant discrimination in the past, today there is no legal discrimination. Social discrimination exists in Israel, my guess is that it is on par or less pronounced that social discrimination against Indigenous people in Canada or Blacks in the US. So what should Israel do about it? I don't know what to think about it. I used to think that it was very bad. I now realized that no matter what Israel does, Palestinian leaders and their supporters call for violence and the elimination of Israel. In other words: Israeli actions do not cause Palestinian violence There is no Israeli indiscriminate violence in Gaza. Given Hamas' charter and actions a blockade is reasonable. Even Egypt agrees.

That is not what I am saying. Arab-Israelis have equal rights in Israel and a much better standard of living than Arabs in any surrounding country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_citizens_of_Israel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Israeli_Arab_Muslims *** What do you think of the Hamas charter that calls for the elimination of all Jews? What is your opinion on the 10/7 attacks? Do you support the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israel?

No, this is central. The point is that without a strong state, all Jews in the Middle East would be ethnically cleansed or killed. Remember too that in Israel, there are 2 million Arab-Israelis with full citizenship and rights living in peace and security.

Perhaps your avoidance of MG's point about Hamas: Hamas: -Openly calls for the destruction of Israel in their constitution -Rapes women and celebrates this and other violence -Kidnaps babies and seniors -Promises to repeat the attacks of 10/7 -Rewards people and their families for killing Jews -Fires rockets into Israel -Uses civilians as human shields

Correct me if I'm wrong, but never in history have Palestinians owned Palestine, therefore it was never taken away from them. Palestinians have prospered at home as citizens of Israel. Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank could have achieved a much better society. I'm not sure if bad luck or bad decision making is to blame, but I am convinced that it is not because of the Jews.

Jews are not the cause of Palestinian suffering: a) 2 million Palestinian citizens of Israel enjoy, on average, some of the best living standards in the ME b) West Bank and Gaza (before 10/7) residents have living standards comparable to other Arab countries c) Completely unrelated to Jews/Israel, there are plenty of Arabs throughout the ME that are "paying the price"

Interesting alternative history questions. What if Jews were not forced out of Europe?.. Would there be a state of Israel today? If there was no Israel, what would Palestine (River to the Sea) be like?

I am honestly curious, what do you think would have been the optimal approach for Israel after 10/7?

That is interesting thanks. The group was founded to establish colonies in Argentina. Then went to Palestine. I imagine that if they foresaw todays negative connotation of the word colonization they would have changed their name. Yes I agree, both Jews and Arabs have deep connections to the land. I would add Christians too and I'm sure there are others.

I am equally mystified by your equal contempt. And this contempt is not based on -womens rights -treatment if minorities -democracy -freedom of expression -child poverty -violence https://news.un.org/en/story/2023/03/1134782

Unfortunately, the West has insufficient power (ie political will) to change the regime in Iran. There have been many labour governments in Israel, yet no peace. There is no link. I cannot understand how one could give equal support to Iran and Israel, can you demystify?

Most people, including Jews and Palestinians were already tired of fighting long ago. The principle exception is Hamas and their supporters. That's why I said: The support of Hamas is prolonging the suffering of innocent Palestinians. The West should be united in calling for the quick and complete disarmament of Hamas. I do not support Netanyahu or Likud. I see no link between the level of violence and the party in power in Israel. Support for right wing conservatives in Israel is a result of ongoing violence not a cause.

Well then it's probably not a good idea to allow more Palestinians into Israel as to not disrupt the delicate peace that is currently in place. What are your expectations based on? I would expect that any Jews living in a Palestinian state would be either killed or forced to leave very quickly. This opinion is based on: a) There are almost no Jewish minorities (and very few other minorities) in 22 Arab states b) Jews were ethnically cleansed from many Arab states c) The Hamas charter calls for the ethnic cleansing of all Jews from the river to the sea d) The actions of the Palestinian leadership and their supporters that are inline with their Charter and their stated aims