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Advice to Poilievre: Canada is a good country, Appeal to higher angels


August1991

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6 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Peterson is calling out the discrimination  we’ve seen in race-based hiring such as “racialized-only” job postings.  He’s also calling out the insane active destruction of the meritocracy by institutions that are bypassing well-qualified and high marks students/job applicants to accept/hire people for superficial reasons like skin colour.  It’s racist, undermines our education system and economy, and breeds contempt as people realize that they are being discriminated against on the basis of race or sexual orientation/identity.

These practices are consider normal practice now, and have been for years now including by the federal government , and they are not considered racist to anyone except white people. and thats the fade right now..."colonizers deserve everything they get" not sure how to explain it. or how it became acceptable practices, it does not make any sense not to hire the best candidate...today it is hire the best candidate as long as it fits the flow chart. 

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7 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

These practices are consider normal practice now, and have been for years now including by the federal government , and they are not considered racist to anyone except white people. and thats the fade right now..."colonizers deserve everything they get" not sure how to explain it. or how it became acceptable practices, it does not make any sense not to hire the best candidate...today it is hire the best candidate as long as it fits the flow chart. 

I think Canada is so dominated by radical left identity politics that it can’t be considered free in the way most of the posters on here understand the meaning of that word in a modern democracy.  It’s just that some of these posters aren’t impacted by what’s underway, either because they’re retired or in a winning group in the zero-sum game.  The media simply reinforces the new discrimination narrative because the fearful masses are constantly trying to prove their wokeness through performative acts in the workplace to protect or enhance their careers.  Sadly, it won’t matter what you do in many organizations if you don’t have the preferred superficial identity.

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On 1/15/2023 at 9:53 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

Mr. Poilievre is very good at the slick rant about what people are upset about. I already know what bothers me. I don't need someone to tell me what I already know. I would like to see him tell us what his solutions are.

He focuses on the little irritants like line ups for things, but he is dead quiet on the big issues of climate change solutions and healthcare. Where does he plan to get the money to pay for these solutions.

Maybe from cleaning up the corruption and incompetence of this Gov. And start getting our energy products to market. We are a resource rich country with only 38 million people.  Paying for Healthcare and other programs shouldn't be a issue here.

Edited by PIK
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On 2/1/2023 at 6:56 PM, Zeitgeist said:

I think Canada is so dominated by radical left identity politics that it can’t be considered free in the way most of the posters on here understand the meaning of that word in a modern democracy. 

So because you don't like what's going on, it's undemocratic and can't be considered free.  That's some interesting "logic".  

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On 2/3/2023 at 2:59 PM, PIK said:

He focuses on the little irritants like line ups for things

Are you ok with people dying while waiting in line ups at the emergency departments? 

Are you ok with the thousands of people who have died waiting on waiting lists for medical care in Canada? 

"The latest government data indicates that 3.2 million Canadians are waiting for surgery, a diagnostic scan, or specialist treatment, according to think tank SecondStreet.org. The latest data also suggests that 41,487 patients have died while on a waiting list since 2018–2019."

Over 3.2 Million Canadians on Health-Care Waitlists: Government Data (theepochtimes.com)

That's approximately ten thousand people a year dying while on waiting lists.

But that's just a "little irritant" according to you.

Edited by blackbird
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14 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

So because you don't like what's going on, it's undemocratic and can't be considered free.  That's some interesting "logic".  

Democratic? Strictly speaking, the election of Trudeau twice does make what's going on, the result of a democratically help election. But is it...freedom?

Consider bills C-16, C-11 and a host of others. These bills make it illegal to voice certain opinions, or to refuse to call a boy a girl and visa versa. So a question.

Is that "freedom of speech"?

Edited by Nationalist
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26 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

So because you don't like what's going on, it's undemocratic and can't be considered free.  That's some interesting "logic".  

You use the term "democracy" very loosely.  You imply because we have a parliamentary democracy that it must be completely moral and above board.  Considering all the moral failures and unethical behavior of the government, I think that is a pretty big stretch to believe or claim everything is just democratic and right.  A poll found two thirds (67%) of Canadians believe the country is broken or the system is broken.  That doesn't say much for so-called democracy in Canada.  It is a clear condemnation of the government and what they have been doing.  They should all resign.

Edited by blackbird
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35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Consider bills C-16, C-11 and a host of others. These bills make it illegal to voice certain opinions, or to refuse to call a boy a girl and visa versa. So a question.

No, that's not what they do.  They haven't criminalized pronoun use/misuse.  Rest assured you're not going to go to jail for calling a trans girl a boy.  

35 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Is that "freedom of speech"?

Since what you're talking about isn't even real, I can't really answer.  As for Freedom of Speech, outside of threats etc, you can say whatever dumb things you please.  We're equally free to judge you for it, and point at you or "CaNcEL" you if we please.   

Edited by Moonbox
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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

No, that's not what they do.  They haven't criminalized pronoun use/misuse.  Rest assured you're not going to go to jail for calling a trans girl a boy.  

Since what you're talking about isn't even real, I can't really answer.  As for Freedom of Speech, outside of threats etc, you can say whatever dumb things you please.  We're equally free to judge you for it, and point at you or "CaNcEL" you if we please.   

Quote

Passed in June 2017, Bill C-16 has become part of a larger conversation surrounding gender, pronoun use, freedom of speech, and the rights of transgender and gender-diverse Canadians. What changes, exactly, are in the new law?

Bill C-16 added the words “gender identity or expression” to three places.

First: It was added to the Canadian Human Rights Act, joining a list of identifiable groups that are protected from discrimination. These groups include age, race, sex, religion and disability, among others.

Second: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code that targets hate speech — defined as advocating genocide and the public incitement of hatred — where it joins other identifiable groups.

Third: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code dealing with sentencing for hate crimes. If there’s evidence that an offence is motivated by bias, prejudice or hate, it can be taken into account by the courts during sentencing.

https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained

So...now that we know...from the CBC no less...that it is real and that you have no idea what you're talking about...

Quote

“Would it cover the accidental misuse of a pronoun? I would say it’s very unlikely,” Cossman says. “Would it cover a situation where an individual repeatedly, consistently refuses to use a person’s chosen pronoun? It might.

You can point at me in judgment all you like sonny-boy. You're good at that sort of nonsense. Years of practice I suspect.

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2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Are you ok with people dying while waiting in line ups at the emergency departments? 

Are you ok with the thousands of people who have died waiting on waiting lists for medical care in Canada? 

"The latest government data indicates that 3.2 million Canadians are waiting for surgery, a diagnostic scan, or specialist treatment, according to think tank SecondStreet.org. The latest data also suggests that 41,487 patients have died while on a waiting list since 2018–2019."

Over 3.2 Million Canadians on Health-Care Waitlists: Government Data (theepochtimes.com)

That's approximately ten thousand people a year dying while on waiting lists.

But that's just a "little irritant" according to you.

Think you mixed something up.

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49 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So...now that we know...from the CBC no less...that it is real and that you have no idea what you're talking about...

Sorry, but it's you that doesn't (as usual).  

53 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Second: It was added to a section of the Criminal Code that targets hate speech — defined as advocating genocide and the public incitement of hatred — where it joins other identifiable groups.

This doesn't criminalize what you're saying

The provision provides that evidence that an offence is motivated by bias, prejudice or hate can be taken into account by courts in sentencing.  The list already includes race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation or any other similar factor.

http://sds.utoronto.ca/blog/bill-c-16-no-its-not-about-criminalizing-pronoun-misuse/#:~:text=The provision provides that evidence,or any other similar factor.

That means that a person who beats up a trans person after raving about them online and calling them (let's say) FILTH could be sentenced more harshly than someone with no such history.

 

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19 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Sorry, but it's you that doesn't (as usual).  

This doesn't criminalize what you're saying

The provision provides that evidence that an offence is motivated by bias, prejudice or hate can be taken into account by courts in sentencing.  The list already includes race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation or any other similar factor.

http://sds.utoronto.ca/blog/bill-c-16-no-its-not-about-criminalizing-pronoun-misuse/#:~:text=The provision provides that evidence,or any other similar factor.

That means that a person who beats up a trans person after raving about them online and calling them (let's say) FILTH could be sentenced more harshly than someone with no such history.

 

It means that the decision as to the motivation is purely subjective. Thus leaving plenty of "wiggle room" for Libbie judges to play with.

This is pure chickenshit.

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1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

It means that the decision as to the motivation is purely subjective. Thus leaving plenty of "wiggle room" for Libbie judges to play with.

This is pure chickenshit.

It's not subjective, because our legal system is evidence-based. 

Of course, if you're a deluded fool slurping troll-farm content, you can certainly go ahead and convince yourself the world is out to get you.   

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

It's not subjective, because our legal system is evidence-based. 

Of course, if you're a deluded fool slurping troll-farm content, you can certainly go ahead and convince yourself the world is out to get you.   

It most certainly is subjective. READ the way its written.

Of course, if you're a deluded fool slurping Libbie chickenshit, you can certainly go ahead and convince yourself this is anything but subjective.

Which you will.

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27 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

It most certainly is subjective. READ the way its written.

The way it's written is the way every legal document is written. 

For this to affect you in any way whatsoever, you have to:

a) Commit a criminal offense against a minority (something most of us can generally avoid)

AND

b) Leave obvious evidence of inflammatory discrimination against that minority in your past.

In short, this is only going to affect dirtbag criminals and ignorant halfwits, a potent but fortunately rare cocktail of stupid.  It's curious why you feel so threatened.  ?

27 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Of course, if you're a deluded fool slurping Libbie chickenshit, you can certainly go ahead and convince yourself this is anything but subjective.

Yes yes, the world is against you.  Everything is compromised.  Only YOU know what's really going on.  ?

Edited by Moonbox
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4 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The way it's written is the way every legal document is written. 

For this to affect you in any way whatsoever, you have to:

a) Commit a criminal offense against a minority (something most of us can generally avoid)

AND

b) Leave obvious evidence of inflammatory discrimination against that minority in your past.

In short, this is only going to affect dirtbag criminals and ignorant halfwits, a potent but fortunately rare cocktail of stupid.  It's curious why you feel so threatened.  ?

Yes yes, the world is against you.  Everything is compromised.  Only YOU know what's really going on.  ?

The government is now trying to revoke Jordan Peterson's license to practice over this harmless little new rule.

You pretend its not subjective but that's simply not true. This is just another reason to oppose everything the current government represents.

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9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

The government is now trying to revoke Jordan Peterson's license to practice over this harmless little new rule.

Are you sure that's the government, or is it the professional society that governs psychologists in Canada? 

Jordan Peterson stopped practicing Psychology in any recognizable form close to 10 years ago, selling out to get in front of the mob of dumdums to echo their anger back at him.  His fellows want to take away his license because he's an embarrassment to the profession.  

9 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You pretend its not subjective but that's simply not true. This is just another reason to oppose everything the current government represents.

OPPOSE EVERYTHING!  Be angry about EVERYTHING!  Believe NOTHING (unless it comes from a Slovenian troll-farm)!  

You are a funny guy.  

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4 hours ago, Contrarian said:

My friend, you are one here that I remember clearly in my first week, was singing praises to Steve Bannon. 

So, now you are giving lessons about how a Canadian is that just respects their elected government?

You support Americans populists from the right. Of course you would call others left wing authoritarians, that's what they teach you at the radio. 

--->  this is serious, and I said it on the other thread, if you really want a change and Conservatives in power, please, you and your ilk need to maintain your irrationality and tribalism to lower volumes when elections come around. 

Do you know why? 

Starting to worry that the Independents voters, Centrists voters, the Reasonable voters will start identifying being a Conservative with such messages. This will make people think twice about the Liberals. and seriously, the federal government needs a change.

This is free advice, from a non-ideologue, because politics is a game, not your BIAS in my opinion.

Is embarrassing really to use such statements because your soldiers can't hold in a debate against a banker which is probably as farthest from being a left wing authoritarian. The man is probably more of a capitalist than you and yet, here you are. ?

I spoke out on this forum against Donald Trump multiple times.  Your phoney “centrism” is a show.  Your politics are basically the same as Moonbox’s.  You defend government overreach and left wing authoritarianism.

Saying Steve Bannon was correct to call out the consensus in Davos was correct.  You’re just not informed enough to speak with depth on these issues.  Your views are tribal.  I was a member of the Liberal party but left it when I saw how ideological it became and the lack of open dialogue or reasonable policy.  It routinely whips its membership over matters of conscience, making it essentially totalitarian on matters of opinion.  Its various bans on conversion therapy or members taking pro life stances are radical and authoritarian.  Much more can and has been said by US left journalists and commentators about the authoritarian moves of Trudeau’s government.  

You simply lack the critical thinking and independent thought to see how propagandized you have become. You’re not alone though.  Much of the Canadian population mindlessly repeats the Liberal woke talking points that are echoed by the state-funded media. Canada is in a bubble.  Much of the rest of the free world sees how Canadian democracy has become compromised.  Many Canadians, including you, don’t see it and simply repeat the same milquetoast defence.

Conservatism in Canada?  Don’t make me laugh.  All Canadian political parties are de facto Liberal.  Opposition views are “unacceptable.”

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Are you sure that's the government, or is it the professional society that governs psychologists in Canada? 

Jordan Peterson stopped practicing Psychology in any recognizable form close to 10 years ago, selling out to get in front of the mob of dumdums to echo their anger back at him.  His fellows want to take away his license because he's an embarrassment to the profession.  

OPPOSE EVERYTHING!  Be angry about EVERYTHING!  Believe NOTHING (unless it comes from a Slovenian troll-farm)!  

You are a funny guy.  

Jordan Peterson is brilliant.  Your criticism of him is shallow and ill-informed.  I’m glad you reveal your ignorance.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

I just zeroed in on this part and realized who I am talking to. 

Yes, the Conservative Party which will win the elections if your ilk does not bore us with the same hysteria. 

You don't get this advice from @Moonbox he just tares your logic apart, I don't think I am as  "ruthless". ?

Just speaking to the realities of the voters. If they hear your screams, they might stick with the Liberals, which including this "phony" centrist will not like. 

Is your game though, but it works against you is my view.

Ilk?   Listen to yourself.  Who are you pandering to?  You think you sound moderate?  You have a lot to learn.  Your political views are uncritical.  Be specific.  If you want to criticize a particular policy or perspective and can support your statements with facts and sound arguments I’ll take you seriously.

You just want the Conservatives to be identical to the Liberals.  Don’t worry, they probably will be. I don’t care whether my views align enough with a party or perspective. I’m not here to get people elected if I don’t support their positions.  Wake up!

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Are you sure that's the government, or is it the professional society that governs psychologists in Canada? 

Jordan Peterson stopped practicing Psychology in any recognizable form close to 10 years ago, selling out to get in front of the mob of dumdums to echo their anger back at him.  His fellows want to take away his license because he's an embarrassment to the profession.  

OPPOSE EVERYTHING!  Be angry about EVERYTHING!  Believe NOTHING (unless it comes from a Slovenian troll-farm)!  

You are a funny guy.  

They are a government agency who are targeting Peterson for his refusal to comply with their speech law.

Yes. I oppose everything about Pixie-Dust and his band of nation destroyers.

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1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

So you propose a different system like @myata? "Destroy and rebuild"? 

A step sideways from a track beaten by a million mindless, zombi-automatic steps into exactly same footprint is a truly scary undertaking, an unacceptable horrible risk, "destroy and rebuild", a catastrophe. For a dinosaur.

"Why bother".

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