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Advice to Poilievre: Canada is a good country, Appeal to higher angels


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On 1/24/2023 at 7:55 PM, Moonbox said:

No, it's really not.  If you add a 5% carbon tax, you're adding 5% to each carbon-based input in the supply chain, not the whole supply chain.  If fuel/energy/delivery costs only add up to 20% of the total end-price of the item being purchased, then you're adding 5% to that 20%, which according to my abacus is 1% and that means I'm not wrong. 

I drive around 40,000km per year for business alone, nevermind my travel for hockey, golf etc.  I very much understand the cost of commuting and fuel.  

We can have a reasonable conversation without you saying silly things like that, can't we?

Natural gas plants operating at scale are far, far cleaner than your G-Wagon for your commute.  If you're commuting your Corola to Toronto every day, than I do feel for you (especially because its cancer to drive on the highway) but if you're commuting in a Corola you're probably not part of the problem and will likely get most of that back in tax credits.   🤷‍♂️

This is a very good point, and one I used to argue on this very forum years ago.  If we're taxing our polluters here, but then closing our factories down and offshoring our pollution to China or Mexico, we've not achieved anything but lost jobs.  That's why the climate treaties and multi-lateral agreements need to be made (and are being made).  We're headed for a future where Canadian export industries will get taxed/tariffed for being dirty and complaining about it at home isn't going to matter.  That goes both ways though.  We need to penalized companies that outsource their pollution and then try to bring the production back here.  

If you tax Canadian companies that offshore production to dirtier jurisdictions, consumer money will just buy the same products from foreign companies.  The playing field isn’t level, and if you think Gina is going to abide by our green boy scout club rules, I’ve got land you might love in Tuktayuktuk…

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42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

If you tax Canadian companies that offshore production to dirtier jurisdictions, consumer money will just buy the same products from foreign companies.  

I think I've already agreed with you on that.  If that's all we're doing, then it's completely pointless, but what is likely to come, eventually, are multi-lateral trade treaties that impose tariffs on polluters and non-compliant countries.  I've long argued (going back 10 years here) that if we're just offshoring our pollution to China we're wasting our time.  

42 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The playing field isn’t level, and if you think Gina is going to abide by our green boy scout club rules, I’ve got land you might love in Tuktayuktuk…

Tell me more.  🤔

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2 hours ago, I am Groot said:

And if you read the UK papers the place is an absolute mess, and it is largely due to an energy policy which prioritized renewable energy over reliable energy.

Has nothing to do with Brexit and then a long succession of goof leaders and turmoil, huh?  

I wonder which UK papers you're reading...

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17 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Has nothing to do with Brexit and then a long succession of goof leaders and turmoil, huh?  

I wonder which UK papers you're reading...

There have been issues because of bad political choices, but not  until the Ukraine war did their cost of energy shoot through the roof to the point people are afraid to turn on the heat. 

I read a number of British papers, as well as watching the BBC and reading their web site. The price of home heating has tripled in a year.

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4 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

There have been issues because of bad political choices, but not  until the Ukraine war did their cost of energy shoot through the roof to the point people are afraid to turn on the heat. 

I read a number of British papers, as well as watching the BBC and reading their web site. The price of home heating has tripled in a year.

I also read the BBC.  The Ukraine war blew up energy prices in the UK this year, not the projects meant to replace fossil fuels. 

 

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Do we talk about the fact that when Ukraine seemed to be shifting towards Russia and away from EU-IMF control, presto, coup, followed by proxy Cold War 2.0?  I feel badly for the Ukrainian people but external forces  — yes NATO and other players — have their cheerleader Zelensky.  Yes Russia is in a sovereign country, but what lead them to assert their defensive interests in Ukraine.  I remember something about Biden wanting to “go toe to toe with Putin.”   I remember the big moves unfolding like the Christmas decorations following Halloween once the Emergencies Act was revoked in Canada.

Much of our inflation was unnecessary and the result of state actions: extreme mandates and restrictions during Covid and the mismanaged government relief, the war-mongering in Ukraine and related energy crisis, the carbon taxes and attack on essential fossil fuels leading to energy insecurity.

Manufactured solutions to manufactured crises.  Of course Covid didn’t come out of a viral research lab, right? What conspiracy theory nonsense.

Democracy, liberty, and living standards are under threat. Look over here, Russia bad!  Racism everywhere!  Climate action now!  Listen respectfully, follow the program, and get back to work…

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 1/15/2023 at 11:38 AM, Queenmandy85 said:

...

On the main topic, August is right when he advises Mr. Poilievre to "Appeal to higher angels, Canada is a good country."

John Diefenbaker crushed the grits with his positive vision of "roads to resources" and "follow John." It was a policy that gave voters something to vote for rather than against. It gave to Tories the largest majority in history up to that time.

''''

My point.

====

Canada is a good country, for all.

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21 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Do we talk about the fact that when Ukraine seemed to be shifting towards Russia and away from EU-IMF control, presto, coup, followed by proxy Cold War 2.0?

You mean the pro-Russian president of Ukraine who had been bought off by Putin was trying to shift Ukraine towards Russia, don't you? 

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

You mean the pro-Russian president of Ukraine who had been bought off by Putin was trying to shift Ukraine towards Russia, don't you? 

Just remember that there were diametrically opposed forces within Ukraine.  Yes, Russia manipulated the internal affairs of Ukraine big time.  So does NATO.  

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On 1/26/2023 at 10:19 PM, Zeitgeist said:

Do we talk about the fact that when Ukraine seemed to be shifting towards Russia and away from EU-IMF control, presto, coup, followed by proxy Cold War 2.0?  

Perhaps that's because the Ukrainian people had already made it clear they wanted the opposite, and been promised the opposite, and then their president about-faced them without much explanation towards the hopelessness that alignment with Russia offered.  🤷‍♂️

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It's not really a plan, but nuclear is an idea you'd hope environmentalists can get behind, but alas even that's out of reach.  Instead, we have Gretas fretting about the next Chernobyl or about safely disposing of waste (which we've been doing for decades).  Nothing short of 100% wind/solar and algae-based batteries is acceptable...or something.  

Pierre said something that makes sense.  Yay.  If he can stick to this sort of messaging, maybe there's hope for him.  

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2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

It's not really a plan, but nuclear is an idea you'd hope environmentalists can get behind, but alas even that's out of reach.  Instead, we have Gretas fretting about the next Chernobyl or about safely disposing of waste (which we've been doing for decades).  Nothing short of 100% wind/solar and algae-based batteries is acceptable...or something.  

Pierre said something that makes sense.  Yay.  If he can stick to this sort of messaging, maybe there's hope for him.  

It's start, of a plan, and if your comparing it to the liberals plan or lack of a working plan it is a much better plan...

They'll have to take a partial win and move on, sometimes leadership is doing what is best for the nation, instead of listening to the lobby groups...And lets face it all the Greta's are not voting conservative in the first place, win, win. 

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Well I've been arguing in favor of nuclear for 10+ years, rather than wasting our money on inefficient wind/solar tech that cannot be stored or scaled at today's tech levels.  

One problem with this particular part of the debate, however, is that it's mostly a provincial issue.  

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Well I've been arguing in favor of nuclear for 10+ years, rather than wasting our money on inefficient wind/solar tech that cannot be stored or scaled at today's tech levels.  

One problem with this particular part of the debate, however, is that it's mostly a provincial issue.  

Yes it is, but when you throw federal funding at it, it atleast gives them a seat at the table, right now i think the provinces would agree to pretty much anything if it bought them votes in say promises of lower electricity rates.

Other factors would be electricity infra structure could be shorten and not have to cross vast distances like in NB where we only have a couple sources of power generation... less to worry about when mother nature takes a dump and knocks out entire grids. Also providing a reliable source of power to our northern communities, that depend on strictly on fossil fuel power. cutting emissions and we have not even placed a price on carbon... 

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3 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Right, but then Ontario phased out coal and anyone looking at a map can see the vast wilderness of remote communities included within it.  

I think we all know that powering up all our remote northern communities with SMR's will be impossible and long after everyone else is converted to other sources of green power, these same communities will still be on fossil fuels. 

But taking off line those fossil fuel plants including those surviving coal plants in citys will take a huge chunk out of our emissions, more than any carbon tax could. 

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18 hours ago, Moonbox said:

He sounds like a populist checking the "box of angry grievances".  He couldn't have fit more slogans into that video if he'd tried.  

 

So these are not issues that concern Canadians? Because  there are many that say these are items the liberals' have dropped the ball, with no real plan to fix it...

Edited by Army Guy
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Some of them are, and then some are just slogans.  Gatekeepers, something about gatekeepers, something else about gatekeepers, no more gatekeepers so that we can allow doctors and nurses to come to Canada and earn...inflation-proof paycheques...???  

Like...what?  

 

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Hi.

Just wondering...does anyone take this sort of snivelling seriously?

Jordan Peterson’s Ottawa event directly opposes NHL’s diversity and inclusion efforts, experts say.

Quote

Peterson himself has stated his distaste for terms like “equity” and “diversity.” In a blog post titled “Equity: When the Left Goes Too Far,” Peterson claimed that of diversity, equity and inclusion, “equity is the most egregious, self-righteous, historically-ignorant and dangerous.” In a separate post, Peterson wrote that diversity “masquerades as something positive,” and what the term truly means is “let’s aim for fewer white men in positions of authority.”

Quote

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Hi.

Just wondering...does anyone take this sort of snivelling seriously?

Jordan Peterson’s Ottawa event directly opposes NHL’s diversity and inclusion efforts, experts say.

 

Peterson is calling out the discrimination  we’ve seen in race-based hiring such as “racialized-only” job postings.  He’s also calling out the insane active destruction of the meritocracy by institutions that are bypassing well-qualified and high marks students/job applicants to accept/hire people for superficial reasons like skin colour.  It’s racist, undermines our education system and economy, and breeds contempt as people realize that they are being discriminated against on the basis of race or sexual orientation/identity.

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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Peterson is calling out the discrimination  we’ve seen in race-based hiring such as “racialized-only” job postings.  He’s also calling out the insane active destruction of the meritocracy by institutions that are bypassing well-qualified and high marks students/job applicants to accept/hire people for superficial reasons like skin colour.  It’s racist, undermines our education system and economy, and breeds contempt as people realize that they are being discriminated against on the basis of race or sexual orientation/identity.

Yes I get that and agree with Peterson. I'm just wondering if anyone takes the type of reporting about it...as in the article link...seriously?

I mean...read the article. This Ian Kennedy character is has written a sopping wet prog anthem piece. He's completely irrational IMO.

Just to add...this thread is somewhat about appealing to higher angels. In this case, the angel who wrote this piece (Ian Kennedy) is a high angel. Too much ecstasy me thinks.

Edited by Nationalist
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39 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Yes I get that and agree with Peterson. I'm just wondering if anyone takes the type of reporting about it...as in the article link...seriously?

I mean...read the article. This Ian Kennedy character is has written a sopping wet prog anthem piece. He's completely irrational IMO.

This is more irrational than reposting news straight out of Iran, on multiple occasions, as you have done?  

 

 

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