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Advice to Poilievre: Canada is a good country, Appeal to higher angels


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5 hours ago, Moonbox said:

PP's bitcoin gaffe just makes him look stupid and demonstrates poor judgement.  We already have a guy we can rely on for that, right?  

Justin's mistakes are ever-present and unforgettable.  I'll never forget his embarrassing us in India.  I'll never forget him getting caught on camera making fun of the world's most powerful country's leader, who happens to be our next door neighbor.  I'll never forget the Emergencies Act, or how he predictably polarized the country just as bad as did his father.  

That being said, he hasn't promoted any truly retarded and utterly self-destructive ideas or theories yet, like Pierre has. Where's he's really shit the bed is with our public finances, which I'm more concerned about than almost anything.  The exception to that, of course, is democracy itself.  I am more concerned with Canada not falling into the populist abyss like the Americans, and avoiding a race to the bottom and the normalization of the conspiracy circus.  We can cut services and/or tax our way out of debt.  We can't do the same with dysfunctional pageantry and hysterical culture wars like that which grips the US House.  

We need positive change.  Change for the sake of change is stupid.  

 

Yes we already have that guy, that same guy who's policies are now being blamed for new inflation, and some of those voices are the BoC governor... I know we discussed all of this but this is not me, this is others bringing this tidbit up. And while PP gaffe is just that , Justin economical policies have drastically effected all Canadians, that was not just a gaffe but a serious Screw up....

I think other have other ideas, not just his economical policies, but lets talk about our natural resources starting with Oil and Gas sector, one of the largest contributors to our GDP, a lot of his policies have made it almost impossible to get a new pipe line or drilling rights, or for that matter any major infra structure project dealing with oil and gas. we have had 2 major countries come begging at our door for LP gas, gas that would take thousands of tones of carbon away , replace unknown coal fired burning power plants, and we shut them down.... Germany built a LP terminal in just 8 months...something to ponder...Now during all this inflation he attacks farmers through new taxes on fertilizers, which will only drive up the cost of everything off the farm, drive farmers out and push individual Canadians into taken up the slack...

lets not even talk about our inter national damage that is done, things Justin has already done, like with NATO, Norad...5 eyes, and AUKUS has cut us out altogether, and we can not figure out why, a Vice Admiral has been asking the same questions in the media today, he has even hinted at some answers why...

How can we blame Pierre on our finances when he has no power to influence our nations funds, thats all on Justin right now, he is already doing the damage, PP is still in the wings... 

We are not the US, we like to think we are just like them, but we are far from it... even our extreme right wing is barely makes the grade for their left...what i do know is there need to be a balance brought to this country, we have had our fill with the left, it needs to come back to atleast the center. And PP can not even come close to the damage Justin has already done or will continue to do. 

You know as well as i do we are not taxing or cutting our way out of this huge deficit, thats going to take decades, it would be political suicide, to just turn off the taps , like cutting off a junkie...it needs to be done gradually, besides repairs are going to cost money, lots of it... 

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Yes we already have that guy, that same guy who's policies are now being blamed for new inflation, and some of those voices are the BoC governor... I know we discussed all of this but this is not me, this is others bringing this tidbit up. And while PP gaffe is just that , Justin economical policies have drastically effected all Canadians, that was not just a gaffe but a serious Screw up....I

I don't think anyone ever questioned whether Trudeau made inflation worse.  He's also almost certainly making it worse longer term (as in worse than it needs to be).  

As far as PP goes, that wasn't a gaffe.  There are two possibilities, either:

1)  He's actually dumb enough to believe the things he was saying, which I personally don't believe

or

2) He's unprincipled enough that he'll promote conspiracy theories and whip the mob up to get where he wants to go.  

It's the second that I'm more worried about.  It's one thing to pander, it's another thing to embrace dangerous stupidity for political points.  

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18 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Great. How? Let's hear the details. Without some details it's just mouth noises. And no one is going to take him seriously on it.


I see PP has said similar things before:

 

Quote

At long last, there does seem to be movement in this direction from within the medical establishment as well:

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-foreign-trained-doctors-certification/

 

 

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On 1/16/2023 at 5:40 PM, TreeBeard said:

Yet, you claim to know more than climatologists do when they talk about what we need to do for solutions.
 

 “Nothing can be done” says NO expert in the field.  
 

No, I claim that the math says the solutions are not working and cannot work unless every country sets about reducing their CO2 emissions. China's emissions exceed all developed nations combined, and they're still building coal plants. Nothing the West does, even at a cost of tens or hundreds of billions - is going to counter China's increases alone. Except China isn't alone. India is running on a similar path. Their increases outweigh the west's decreases too. Then we have all the rest of the developing world, all gleefully building coal plants and increasing emissions.

Well, you can't blame them. They need more power for all those factories moving out of the West to where the energy costs are cheaper.

So don't even try that 'you're not a climatologist' bullshit, pal. 

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On 1/16/2023 at 6:02 PM, Moonbox said:

Perhaps, but on most of them he'll turn out on the right side of history.  He and his type take it too far, and sometimes to the point of absurdity, but those are the instances we should be complaining about, rather than railing generally about wokeness etc.  You're free to disagree, but much (definitely not all) of what Trudeau has embraced culturally is coming regardless.  Whether that's now or whether that's after Boomers age out is going to be the main question.  Young folk have different priorities and don't care about these things nearly as much. 

Either way, these are fairly vague complaints, and I struggle to think of any that match up to promoting conspiracy theories that deliberately undermine public trust in vital institutions for the sake of a few angry votes.  

If you think appointing people to those vital institutions on the basis of their skin colour, religion and gender rather than merit doesn't undermine public trust in them you're kidding yourself. If you think hiring and promotion based on identity group membership doesn't anger people not belonging to favoured identity groups you're really kidding yourself. And if you think there isn't going to be a massive, probably violent backlash to this once Trudeau is done inciting people into hating each other you really don't understand human behaviour. 

Young folk who find themselves not hired, not promoted, not getting that government grant, and being constantly blamed for things they never did and things they never thought are very likely to turn bitter and angry, especially in the face of economic downturns where they find themselves shut out of things like owning a home.

"Sorry, kid. I realize you have that masters degree and all, but we're going to hire this immigrant from Somalia because we're helping make it up for the racism your ancestors practiced on his ancestors - even though his ancestors were never here to begin with."

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9 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

No, I claim that the math says the solutions are not working and cannot work unless every country sets about reducing their CO2 emissions. China's emissions exceed all developed nations combined, and they're still building coal plants. Nothing the West does, even at a cost of tens or hundreds of billions - is going to counter China's increases alone. Except China isn't alone. India is running on a similar path. Their increases outweigh the west's decreases too. Then we have all the rest of the developing world, all gleefully building coal plants and increasing emissions.

Well, you can't blame them. They need more power for all those factories moving out of the West to where the energy costs are cheaper.

So don't even try that 'you're not a climatologist' bullshit, pal. 

The naivety abounds unfortunately.  I also find it humorous getting lectures about fighting climate change from people who have no idea how personally invested I’ve been in green tech.  It’s hugely problematic to see so many Canadians accept policies and unnecessary taxes blindly.  We really are suckers.  Canada’s emissions continue to climb and they’re minute compared to what’s coming out of Asia.  Carbon taxes are just taxes that add to our cost of living and encourage more government spending and mismanagement.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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5 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

If you think appointing people to those vital institutions on the basis of their skin colour, religion and gender rather than merit doesn't undermine public trust in them you're kidding yourself. 

Last time I checked, Tiff Macklem was just another old white guy.  I guess there was some affirmative action agenda going on there?  ?‍♂️

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19 hours ago, Moonbox said:

I don't know anything about it, but I can agree I'd not be pleased if I took my child to that.  

Was at the California pride parade. Christina Aguilera. But shhh don't say anything you bigot. Baby we were born this way

Edited by West
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2 hours ago, West said:

Was at the California pride parade. Christina Aguilera. But shhh don't say anything you bigot. Baby we were born this way

Oh well whatever then.  The Pride Parade is never PG.  Dudes wear buttless chaps for the Toronto event.  If you take your kid to that you have to be ready to explain some things.  Get over it.  ?‍♂️

If I took my daughter or niece to see Christina at her own concern and that's how she showed up, I'd maybe care more.  

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1 hour ago, Moonbox said:

Oh well whatever then.  The Pride Parade is never PG.  Dudes wear buttless chaps for the Toronto event.  If you take your kid to that you have to be ready to explain some things.  Get over it.  ?‍♂️

If I took my daughter or niece to see Christina at her own concern and that's how she showed up, I'd maybe care more.  

Normalizing child grooming I see. Nothing surprises me about you anymore

Edited by West
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7 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Why wouldn’t I point that out when you’re claiming to know more than the actual experts? 

Because I'm not. These so-called climate experts of yours make predictions. They don't design government programs which are alleged to be doing something about those predictions.

The 'experts' you are challenging me for not agreeing with are named Gerald Butts and Justin Trudeau, among others. 

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

These so-called climate experts

You’re very confused if you think anyone considers PM Trudeau an expert in climate science.  
 

There are actual experts with opinions based on actual research.  And you’re on the internet pretending to know more than them.  
 

Go get your PhD, study the problem, and come back with an opinion actually worth listening to.  Right now, you’re just another internet conspiracy kook. 

Edited by TreeBeard
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44 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

You’re very confused if you think anyone considers PM Trudeau an expert in climate science.  

You apparently do. It's their programs and policies you are defending against all attacks.

Despite the clear reality that none of them will accomplish a damned thing but to make Canada poorer.

That's not a conspiracy, it's reality. Something you apparently find offensive.

 

Edited by I am Groot
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3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

You apparently do. It's their programs and policies you are defending against all attacks.

You haven’t been reading.  Where have I defended Trudeau’s policies?   They’ve been about as effective as the previous Harper policies.  
 

But, you claiming I think Trudeau is an expert is a straw man…. A distraction.  
 

Go study climate science and then maybe you can refute what the actual experts say without relying on crackpot conspiracies. 

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3 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

You haven’t been reading.  Where have I defended Trudeau’s policies?   They’ve been about as effective as the previous Harper policies.  
 

But, you claiming I think Trudeau is an expert is a straw man…. A distraction.  
 

Go study climate science and then maybe you can refute what the actual experts say without relying on crackpot conspiracies. 

You're not reading what I'm writing. Is it a conspiracy to say the solution proposed (by politicians) will not work because most of the world isn't doing it? Is math too hard for you or do you just cling to any proposed solution and desperately push back against anyone who doubts it?

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