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Advice to Poilievre: Canada is a good country, Appeal to higher angels


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Do his advisors read this forum? Of course they do. They're political animals.

No doubt Poilievre knows far more than I do about the political game.

But if I had any advice to Poilievre, it would be this: Appeal to higher angels, "Canada is a good country".

=====

And uh, his wife's kiss 

 

 

 

Edited by August1991
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Troll politics seems to be on the way out.

The post-troll politicians are more pragmatic.

Doug Ford, Ron DeSantis can take the "tough guy" image out and rework it into a more broadly appealing leader type persona.  No insulting, no arrogant strutting about being able to shoot somebody on 5th Avenue, and no hanging out with Nazis.

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Mr. Poilievre is very good at the slick rant about what people are upset about. I already know what bothers me. I don't need someone to tell me what I already know. I would like to see him tell us what his solutions are.

He focuses on the little irritants like line ups for things, but he is dead quiet on the big issues of climate change solutions and healthcare. Where does he plan to get the money to pay for these solutions.

Edited by Queenmandy85
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10 hours ago, August1991 said:

Do his advisors read this forum? Of course they do. They're political animals.

No doubt Poilievre knows far more than I do about the political game.

But if I had any advice to Poilievre, it would be this: Appeal to higher angels, "Canada is a good country".

=====

And uh, his wife's kiss 

 

 

 

You’re looking through the wrong end of the telescope.  There’s nothing radical about Poilievre.  He’s attempting to correct the country’s course, which Trudeau has brought closer to radical left internationalist dictatorship.  Your constitutional rights are weak, especially under Trudeau.  You’re allowed to have limited perspectives in Canada.  It’s creepy.  I would have a foot outside Canada to protect yourself when the next “crisis” hits, because this government wants to control your life more.

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21 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Troll politics seems to be on the way out.

The post-troll politicians are more pragmatic.

Doug Ford, Ron DeSantis can take the "tough guy" image out and rework it into a more broadly appealing leader type persona.  No insulting, no arrogant strutting about being able to shoot somebody on 5th Avenue, and no hanging out with Nazis.

Who is hanging out with Nazis?  What nonsense have you swallowed?

14 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Mr. Poilievre is very good at the slick rant about what people are upset about. I already know what bothers me. I don't need someone to tell me what I already know. I would like to see him tell us what his solutions are.

He focuses on the little irritants like line ups for things, but he is dead quiet on the big issues of climate change solutions and healthcare. Where does he plan to get the money to pay for these solutions.

Climate change is the best scam going for government to take and redistribute more of workers’ money.  No one knows how much our human activity impacts climate change or whether any of the current government solutions will fix it.  Nevertheless, we are expected to take this medicine of carbon taxes as the cost of living goes through the roof.

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2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Clearly, you've never been to Norway. ?

Norway has a ton of oil that funds government programs, pensions, etc. You can’t really compare Norway’s conditions to most countries of a similar size.  It happens to sit on oil like Saudi Arabia.  The politicians were at least smart enough to keep the wealth for the public.  However, only Norwegians can afford the high cost of living there.

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8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Who is hanging out with Nazis?  What nonsense have you swallowed?

Climate change is the best scam going for government to take and redistribute more of workers’ money.  No one knows how much our human activity impacts climate change or whether any of the current government solutions will fix it.  Nevertheless, we are expected to take this medicine of carbon taxes as the cost of living goes through the roof.

You are misinformed. Exxon Mobile knows. They accurately predicted the impact of human caused climate change in the1970's and then spent the next few decades hiding their study while attacking all the other studies that confirmed their own research. (Geoffrey Supran from the University of Miami) 

If you don't like carbon taxes, perhaps you would prefer rationing.

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9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Norway has a ton of oil that funds government programs, pensions, etc. You can’t really compare Norway’s conditions to most countries of a similar size.  It happens to sit on oil like Saudi Arabia.  The politicians were at least smart enough to keep the wealth for the public.  However, only Norwegians can afford the high cost of living there.

Norway has very high taxes and very high prices for energy. Relative to most first world nations, Canadians tax burden is quite low. 

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35 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You are misinformed. Exxon Mobile knows. They accurately predicted the impact of human caused climate change in the1970's and then spent the next few decades hiding their study while attacking all the other studies that confirmed their own research. (Geoffrey Supran from the University of Miami) 

If you don't like carbon taxes, perhaps you would prefer rationing.

I’m not disputing that climate change exists nor that there’s a human impact.  I question the degree to which humans are impacting it and whether the high costs of attempting to mitigate our impact is worth paying given the coming population drop due to demographic patterns and the inevitable technological advances that will eventually have a significant impact on greenhouse gas emissions.

The Earth has been hotter and colder than it is today, with humans on it.  We know that our climate oscillates between hotter and warmer periods due to astronomical patterns.  We have had flooded coastlines and ice ages that people survived.  We’re better able to adapt than ever before.  Set up affordable building codes and carbon capture, expand nuclear, hydro, etc.  Incentivize green power in reasonable ways.  We shouldn’t be destroying our finances to fight a somewhat theoretical problem with costly theoretical solutions.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not disputing that climate change exists nor that there’s a human impact.  I question the degree to which humans are impacting it and whether the high costs of attempting to mitigate our impact is worth paying given the coming population drop due to demographic patterns

As a side tangent, how long will that hypothetical population drop last? It needs to be a slow permanent decline.

On the main topic, August is right when he advises Mr. Poilievre to "Appeal to higher angels, Canada is a good country."

John Diefenbaker crushed the grits with his positive vision of "roads to resources" and "follow John." It was a policy that gave voters something to vote for rather than against. It gave to Tories the largest majority in history up to that time. When the CPC says they have a solution to an issue, then keep it a secret, gives voters the sense that we do not have a solution.

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Canada has become a grotesque quasi-totalitarian shadow of its former self.  It could take decades to clear out the influence-peddling, grift, outsized influence of unelected individuals/groups, and so on.  Canada is a socialist dictatorship where one set of political views are okay.  All other opinions are “unacceptable” or “alt-right” or “misogynist” or “colonial”, etc.

Pluralistic Canada is fast-tracking to Chinese-style totalitarian hive mentality under Trudeau.

Climate change is just another excuse for more oppressive policies.  Our Conservative Party are barely conservative, yet somehow they are “scary” to most Canadians.  The Liberals will hold office forever, even if the “Conservatives” manage the odd win.

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56 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Canada is a socialist dictatorship

Then why do we rank so high on the various freedom indices?  
 

The Heritage Foundation, an American rightwing think tank has Canada at #15 in the world on its Economic Freedom Index. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
 

The UK based “Democracy Index” has us ranked #12 in the world.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
 

I could go on….   
 

Is this actually about not liking Trudeau?

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9 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Mr. Poilievre is very good at the slick rant about what people are upset about. I already know what bothers me. I don't need someone to tell me what I already know. I would like to see him tell us what his solutions are.

He focuses on the little irritants like line ups for things, but he is dead quiet on the big issues of climate change solutions and healthcare. Where does he plan to get the money to pay for these solutions.

It's working for Justin, so ride that wave to the beach, why is it we concentrate on what the Conservatives are doing and excuse everything the liberals are doing.... Justin has been doing the same thing for over 9 years now and he is still popular...I'd like to know what Justins ideas are about climate change or health care or the rest of the problems urgent problems that our country faces...He is in charge right now, he is the PM...once the election gets going then it will be time to hear what PP has got to say... or should i say once he is PM then we can hold him accountable that and reality will start to sink in and all those fanciful promises will be just that locked in a closet for another election.    

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2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

Then why do we rank so high on the various freedom indices?  
 

The Heritage Foundation, an American rightwing think tank has Canada at #15 in the world on its Economic Freedom Index. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Economic_Freedom
 

The UK based “Democracy Index” has us ranked #12 in the world.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index
 

I could go on….   
 

Is this actually about not liking Trudeau?

Is that all you want to score a nation on...then whooorah take your win sit in the corner,

Lets forget how we treat indigenous people, our vets, our homeless, how our law favors the criminals, no real property rights to speak of, how we can not track 1/2 the pandemic spending, how well over 30 bil is unaccounted for, or paid out to people who did not qualify, you know like dead people convicts still in prison, i can not make this stuff up, we are a welfare state in areas like the ,Maritimes, and up north we are so divided we now have 1/2 the country talking and thinking about separation... we contribute very little to the rest of the world, in regards to war, famine, peacekeeping , or peacemaking, we constantly lie to the world, and lets not forget to ourselves, our inter national reputation is in taters...we have pissed away most of the advantages that have given us what we have in this nation todate...and we will continue down this road becasue we are to stubborn to see the results... like cutting off our head to save the body, not smart enough to realize we need the head to live the way we have been. inflation is out of control, people are going hungry, older generations are coming back to work becasue young people are simple not interested, there is going to be a major flip in the economy due to age...and you make it sound like we live in nirvana.... give me some of that weed so we are on the same page...

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1 hour ago, Army Guy said:

Is that all you want to score a nation on...then whooorah take your win sit in the corner,

Lets forget how we treat indigenous people, our vets, our homeless, how our law favors the criminals, no real property rights to speak of, how we can not track 1/2 the pandemic spending, how well over 30 bil is unaccounted for, or paid out to people who did not qualify, you know like dead people convicts still in prison, i can not make this stuff up, we are a welfare state in areas like the ,Maritimes, and up north we are so divided we now have 1/2 the country talking and thinking about separation... we contribute very little to the rest of the world, in regards to war, famine, peacekeeping , or peacemaking, we constantly lie to the world, and lets not forget to ourselves, our inter national reputation is in taters...we have pissed away most of the advantages that have given us what we have in this nation todate...and we will continue down this road becasue we are to stubborn to see the results... like cutting off our head to save the body, not smart enough to realize we need the head to live the way we have been. inflation is out of control, people are going hungry, older generations are coming back to work becasue young people are simple not interested, there is going to be a major flip in the economy due to age...and you make it sound like we live in nirvana.... give me some of that weed so we are on the same page...

Is there a single thing thing in your list of grievances that should lead to the break up of the country or that can be fixed by breaking up the country?

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14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

once the election gets going then it will be time to hear what PP has got to say... or should i say once he is PM then we can hold him accountable that and reality will start to sink in and all those fanciful promises will be just that locked in a closet for another election.    

Why do we need to wait until an election to hear what the opposition proposes to remedy problems? 

Edited by Queenmandy85
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14 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Justin has been doing the same thing for over 9 years now and he is still popular  

He's not still popular.  It's more the opposite. His die-hards still support him, but most of the folks who gave him the benefit of the doubt no longer do so.  Look up his approval ratings.  

He'll succeed or fail in the next election based on how much PP leans on his angry base.  If Poilievre can bridge the gap and start acting like an adult with real ideas, I'll vote for him, and so will most moderate conservatives.  

If he continues on the current course, he'll hand Trudeau the next election by virtue of being even less popular than him.  

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49 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

He's not still popular.  It's more the opposite. His die-hards still support him, but most of the folks who gave him the benefit of the doubt no longer do so.  Look up his approval ratings.  

He'll succeed or fail in the next election based on how much PP leans on his angry base.  If Poilievre can bridge the gap and start acting like an adult with real ideas, I'll vote for him, and so will most moderate conservatives.  

If he continues on the current course, he'll hand Trudeau the next election by virtue of being even less popular than him.  

The Liberals' success rests on buying votes. That's never going to be a strategy the Conservative base accepts. Unfortunately, it does work. It's much easier to get "Here's some free money!" into a ten second sound bite than to explain how fiscal policy, low taxes and regulations combine to create a good economic environment which leads to productivity increases and thus improvements in the standard of living.

That being said, even I don't like Poilievre. I don't like his catering to the trucker/anti-vaxxer crowd, his anti WEF nonsense, or his nonsensical statements about digital currency. I don't like his immigration policy (such as it is) and don't like his lack of specifics on how he would deal with various issues. I still think a conservative government would be run far more competently and far more in the interests of the country than this shallow, self serving Liberal administration, but agree he's likely to lose if he doesn't produce some attractive policy proposals that have enough flesh attached to the bare bones to sound like he means it.

Edited by I am Groot
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6 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Liberals' success rests on buying votes. That's never going to be a strategy the Conservative base accepts. Unfortunately, it does work. It's much easier to get "Here's some free money!" into a ten second sound bite than to explain how fiscal policy, low taxes and regulations combine to create a good economic environment which leads to productivity increases and thus improvements in the standard of living.

That being said, even I don't like Poilievre. I don't like his catering to the trucker/anti-vaxxer crowd, I don't like his immigration policy (such as it is) and don't like his lack of specifics on how he would deal with various issues. I still think a conservative government would be run far more competently and far more in the interests of the country than this shallow, self serving Liberal administration, but agree he's likely to lose if he doesn't produce some attractive policy proposals that have enough flesh attached to the bare bones to sound like he means it.

How can you be such a sell out?  Thank God for the trucker protest.  They literally liberated Canada from restrictions and mandates.  They were heroic.  I like Poilievre because he was brave enough to stand up to the Liberal-paid legacy media.

My only concern with Poilievre is that he is at risk of sliding into copying the Liberals.

Polilievre isn’t a social conservative.  He’s barely conservative.  You fear him because your whole ethos is Liberal like all of Canada.  The Liberals run Canada permanently.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

The Liberals' success rests on buying votes. That's never going to be a strategy the Conservative base accepts.

That's a strategy the CPC has run with as long as it's existed - or every party for that matter.  I'll grant that the Liberals (at least IMO) are more shameless and brazen about it, but they're not unique.  The conservative base, at least the furthest reaches of it, generally seem more interested in identity politics and culture wars (owning the Libs, the woke etc).  It's the moderate conservatives (the small C's or the red tories) that actually care about public spending and practical matters.  

3 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

That being said, even I don't like Poilievre. I don't like his catering to the trucker/anti-vaxxer crowd, his anti WEF nonsense, or his nonsensical statements about digital currency. I don't like his immigration policy (such as it is) and don't like his lack of specifics on how he would deal with various issues. I still think a conservative government would be run far more competently and far more in the interests of the country than this shallow, self serving Liberal administration, but agree he's likely to lose if he doesn't produce some attractive policy proposals that have enough flesh attached to the bare bones to sound like he means it.

We seem to pretty much agree on this and have the same issues with it.  The only thing I'll say is that what Canadian voters are going to want to see is that he doesn't mean a lot of the stuff he's said about the topics he's listed.  He's only recently been elected party leader and he's already painted himself into a corner as a demagogue populist catering to the conspiracy circus.  That's going to be an uphill climb, because he's far too prone to zingers and one-liners and he's given his opponents a lot of ammunition to define him as exactly what he's looked like so far.  

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8 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I like Poilievre because he was brave enough to stand up to the Liberal-paid

You like Poilievre because he's brave enough to get in front of the mob and tell them everything they want to hear.  ?

It's easy to like people who are repeating your views back to you.  

Edited by Moonbox
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Just now, Moonbox said:

You like Poilievre because he's brave enough to get in front of the mob and tell them everything they want to hear.  ?

I just think you buy everything you’re told by Liberal media like most Canadians.  You’re scared of other viewpoints and label anyone who tells the truth about government overreach a “conspiracy theorist”.   It’s how you’ve been trained.  Don’t worry, you’re going to get even more insane tranhumanism, MAID for the poor, mentally ill, and elderly, higher taxes on basic necessities, curtailment of free speech, and general mindless left-wing radical compliance. 

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