I am Groot Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 On 2/7/2023 at 1:29 PM, Michael Hardner said: 1. It's also a critical framework, and an examination of history. If you like watching Peterson because there are some good bits you should also read Marx by principle. I doubt Marx is ever entertaining. I do watch Thomas Sowell, who famously was a Marxist when younger. He says his first real job working with numbers dealing with US employment figures, incentives and behavior cured him of that forever. Besides, why spend time on an ideology which is only occasionally 'good'? I rarely even watch Peterson. On 2/7/2023 at 1:29 PM, Michael Hardner said: 2. I have to turn him off when he talks about things that aren't "self help"... saying "there's no such thing as climate" on climate change, I'm not sure what he might have been referring to. It's not like he doesn't believe in climate change, AFAIK. He just thinks that the proposed solutions are largely unworkable and that humankind would be better helped by devoting that money to things like education and nutrition in the third world. His view is the only way out of the climate change issue is scientific/technological innovation and discoveries. Again, AFAIK. I don't devote much time to him. I just recall seeing an amusing and somewhat interesting little snippet on climate change from a question/answer session he did at Cambridge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: Yes I have read them. You’re revealing the shallowness of your knowledge. 🙄 You're revealing your inability (or unwillingness) to debate the topic. 19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It’s not that there aren’t many other great thinkers out there like Peterson, it’s that few of them can make these ideas understandable to the general public and few will risk their status within academia or established media outlets. He’s not uniquely heroic, but there are very few intellectuals bothering to take on the political factions that are compromising democracy and academic freedom. He's not risking anything! 🤣 He makes far more money now as a provocateur and culture-war general than he ever did as a tenured university professor. There's nothing "brave" about cashing in on the ignorance and anxiety of angry white dudes. If he was still just talking about academic freedom and the danger of group-think, like when I first heard about him, I might still have some time for him. Instead, he weighs in on any and all topics about which the rabble is already fired up. Whether it's Ukraine, or vaccines, George Floyd, #meToo etc, he's so predictably on-brand for what the apes wants to hear that the idea of him as a "great thinker" is a grand joke. All he's doing is taking the things you already believe and want to hear, and wrapping them up in a pseudo-intellectual package. 19 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It’s the refusal to see the giant log in the eye of our current government and organizational cultures. Most Canadians sense this brokenness but few can articulate the pseudoscience and confusing dominant narratives that are making life harder generally. Most Canadians can see that the Trudeau government is incompetent, as was his father's. What most Canadians don't agree on is your delusional worldviews, your hysterics and your broken-record sloganeering. I'd love to be talking about the things that Trudeau has got wrong, and how a more pragmatic government would do better. Instead, we're wasting our time and energy debating reality, and how the whole world is conspiring to take away your freedom. 🥱 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 10 minutes ago, Moonbox said: 🙄 You're revealing your inability (or unwillingness) to debate the topic. He's not risking anything! 🤣 He makes far more money now as a provocateur and culture-war general than he ever did as a tenured university professor. There's nothing "brave" about cashing in on the ignorance and anxiety of angry white dudes. If he was still just talking about academic freedom and the danger of group-think, like when I first heard about him, I might still have some time for him. Instead, he weighs in on any and all topics about which the rabble is already fired up. Whether it's Ukraine, or vaccines, George Floyd, #meToo etc, he's so predictably on-brand for what the apes wants to hear that the idea of him as a "great thinker" is a grand joke. All he's doing is taking the things you already believe and want to hear, and wrapping them up in a pseudo-intellectual package. Most Canadians can see that the Trudeau government is incompetent, as was his father's. What most Canadians don't agree on is your delusional worldviews, your hysterics and your broken-record sloganeering. I'd love to be talking about the things that Trudeau has got wrong, and how a more pragmatic government would do better. Instead, we're wasting our time and energy debating reality, and how the whole world is conspiring to take away your freedom. 🥱 You can’t be critical of the prevailing problems when your beliefs exemplify them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 8 Report Share Posted February 8 (edited) 22 hours ago, Moonbox said: No, because he's stating the obvious and packaging it in pseudo-profound but totally clichéd self-help. You don't need Jordan Peterson to tell you to eat healthy, stay in shape, show ambition and follow through on it. You don't need Jordan Peterson to teach you to be stronk assertive man, and even less to get this advice on how to interact with women. You're correct. _I_ don't need that. But there clearly are a number of men, principally young men, lost men, who do. And if his advice helps them then I certainly have no issue with that. 22 hours ago, Moonbox said: No, but that's the problem with pinning down Jordan Peterson's long-winded and confusing writing. He takes a bunch of common-sense truisms that everyone would agree on, but then mixes them with a sprinkle of angry and populist sloganeering, which is what his audience is actually interested in. There's lots of angry people out there. And aside from when dealing with imbecilic woke people who consider anyone who opposes multiple genders to be akin to Hitler I rarely see him as 'angry'. And speaking about imbecilic woke, I give you,this. Edited February 8 by I am Groot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: You can’t be critical of the prevailing problems when your beliefs exemplify them. What you're essentially telling me here is that if I don't agree with your grievances (or the prevailing problems), I can't complain about them. No shit. Whatever kernel of truth there is to your worldview is tainted by your hysterics, hyperbole and paranoia. 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: You're correct. _I_ don't need that. But there clearly are a number of men, principally young men, lost men, who do. And if his advice helps them then I certainly have no issue with that. Lost men aren't going to be helped by echoing their anger back to them and delivering sermons in basic common-sense. 3 hours ago, I am Groot said: There's lots of angry people out there. And aside from when dealing with imbecilic woke people who consider anyone who opposes multiple genders to be akin to Hitler I rarely see him as 'angry'. And speaking about imbecilic woke, I give you,this. Sure. I agree. This gets pretty stupid. Over-wokeness and out-of-touch virtue-signaling goes way too far, way too often. If Jordan Peterson was still focusing on academic arguments about stuff like this, I'd have nothing bad to say about it. That's not who he is or what he's doing anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Moonbox said: What you're essentially telling me here is that if I don't agree with your grievances (or the prevailing problems), I can't complain about them. No shit. Whatever kernel of truth there is to your worldview is tainted by your hysterics, hyperbole and paranoia. Lost men aren't going to be helped by echoing their anger back to them and delivering sermons in basic common-sense. Sure. I agree. This gets pretty stupid. Over-wokeness and out-of-touch virtue-signaling goes way too far, way too often. If Jordan Peterson was still focusing on academic arguments about stuff like this, I'd have nothing bad to say about it. That's not who he is or what he's doing anymore. It’s your lack of concern for what matters that I’m pointing out. Again though, this is common in Canada and explains why our country has declined. Edited February 9 by Zeitgeist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 4 hours ago, I am Groot said: ... he did at Cambridge. omg he's insufferable.... how can people listen to this pretentious fake.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 59 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said: It’s your lack of concern for what matters that I’m pointing out. Again though, this is common in Canada and explains why our country has declined. Too much of what you think "matters" is some combination of hysterically exaggerated, vague or not even real in the first place. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 41 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Too much of what you think "matters" is some combination of hysterically exaggerated, vague or not even real in the first place. 🤷♂️ That’s funny because a lot of Canadians aren’t happy with the state of the country and our government has become a subject of international ridicule. Oh right that’s all nothing. How melodramatic of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 12 hours ago, Zeitgeist said: That’s funny because a lot of Canadians aren’t happy with the state of the country and our government has become a subject of international ridicule. Oh right that’s all nothing. How melodramatic of me. Even I'm not happy with the state of the country, or our government. You'll not find me saying a good thing about Justin Trudeau anywhere on this forum, ever. People being generally unhappy still doesn't make your balogna real. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 8 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Even I'm not happy with the state of the country, or our government. You'll not find me saying a good thing about Justin Trudeau anywhere on this forum, ever. People being generally unhappy still doesn't make your balogna real. Have you lived in Canada for more than a few years? If you’ve lived here for decades you should see the contrast between what we had and what we have today. If you don’t see the gravity of this, I can’t help you. I’m not repeating my explanations. Avert your eyes. Hopefully you have enough money to insulate yourself from reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 Just now, Zeitgeist said: Have you lived in Canada for more than a few years? If you’ve lived here for decades you should see the contrast between what we had and what we have today. I've lived here my whole life. I can see things are different. I don't agree they're dire. Just now, Zeitgeist said: If you don’t see the gravity of this, I can’t help you. I’m not repeating my explanations. Avert your eyes. Hopefully you have enough money to insulate yourself from reality. I don't want you to repeat your explanations either. They're nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeitgeist Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 31 minutes ago, Moonbox said: I've lived here my whole life. I can see things are different. I don't agree they're dire. I don't want you to repeat your explanations either. They're nonsense. Bury your head in the sand or sing a happy song. Everything is awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I am Groot Posted February 9 Report Share Posted February 9 5 hours ago, Moonbox said: Even I'm not happy with the state of the country, or our government. You'll not find me saying a good thing about Justin Trudeau anywhere on this forum, ever. People being generally unhappy still doesn't make your balogna real. I am not 'generally' unhappy. I'm specifically unhappy at the way we are being deliberately divided by government policy because the Liberals see this woke shit as politically advantageous in attracting left-wing voters who might otherwise vote for the NDP. I'm specifically unhappy at a government which has allowed our national security interests to take a greatly secondary priority to their electoral interests in attracting Chinese voters. I'm also specifically unhappy at them allowing our military to deteriorate to the point of uselessness because they don't see military spending as being politically beneficial enough. I'm specifically unhappy at how this government has worked against our natural resource industries instead of taking advantage of them, embraced climate change penalties for those who need energy - thus impoverishing us all while driving manufacturing offshore, all while accomplishing nothing. I'm specifically unhappy at drawing in massive amounts of immigrants to overwhelm our infrastructure, greatly increasing housing costs while holding labour costs low. I'm specifically unhappy that Canada is falling further behind our OECD competitors in wealth and economic well-being - as well as their attempts at hiding this by importing massive numbers to increase our GDP (while lowering our GDP per person). There are a lot of reasons to be unhappy here, and specifically unhappy at this government and its actions, statements and policies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 What I meant was that people (in general) being unhappy doesn't confirm any one person's individual theories, especially not the far out delusions. Some of what you say above I even agree with, though some I definitely don't. Most your complaints, however, are at least grounded in reality, so I can hardly lump you in with some of the other jokers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted February 10 Report Share Posted February 10 On 1/14/2023 at 8:45 PM, August1991 said: Do his advisors read this forum? Of course they do. They're political animals. No doubt Poilievre knows far more than I do about the political game. But if I had any advice to Poilievre, it would be this: Appeal to higher angels, "Canada is a good country". ===== And uh, his wife's kiss This advice would be far better suited for Trudeau, who is trying to remake Canada into a socialist activist’s dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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