Emergency Act commission

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

There's a group of people here, for the sake of argument let's call them "you people", who believe everything they see on CNN and CBC and you'll never consider a word to the contrary.

These people you're talking about/too are a hallucination located in your head.

[Moonbox]

2 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

That's fine, you don't have to like me to exchange ideas. 

Take it as a point of pride that he doesn't.  That's one of the few people on this forum I've muted.  I've yet to hear a reasonable thing come out of his mouth.  

[WestCanMan]

36 minutes ago, eyeball said:

These people you're talking about/too are a hallucination located in your head.

Right, like for example ^the^guy^ who still thinks that 10,000 unvaccinated people die each month, yet doesn't exist. 

He's a bit of a contradiction in terms, that one.

[WestCanMan]

40 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Take it as a point of pride that he doesn't.  That's one of the few people on this forum I've muted.  I've yet to hear a reasonable thing come out of his mouth.  

Being muted by moonbox is the internet equivalent of earning a PhD in Everything. 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

There's a group of people here, for the sake of argument let's call them "you people", who believe everything they see on ......

. F off contrarian. 

And I will say that There's a group of people here, for the sake of argument let's call them "you people", who believe everything they see on facebook, tiktok and youtube.

How adult of you to tell someone to F off in a discussion just because they don't agree with you. Understandable coming from you though.

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, Contrarian said:

That's fine, you don't have to like me to exchange ideas. That is what democracy is about in my view. Just don't expect me to agree with them.

I am not a vaccinated with a badge.

My apologies contrarian, I should have said "you people", not 'you', as in 'you in particular'.

I just bristle at the notion that unvaxed people are acting in a tribal manner for some reason that has to do with our own inability to get along. We were forced into this tribe, and I obviously don't admire all the people in this tribe outside of their stance on this issue (Pat King, for example), but here I am. 

[WestCanMan]

32 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

And I will say that There's a group of people here, for the sake of argument let's call them "you people", who believe everything they see on facebook, tiktok and youtube.

I believe the stats I see on infobase Canada, and if you don't that's your problem. 

I obviously don't watch TikTok beause I'm not 12 and I'm not a leftist, but FYI FB has been virtually fact-free this whole time.

They allowed blatant disinformation in videos to be spread far and wide, like for example when Fauci and the CDC director said "The vaccine prevents infection and stops the spread", and Biden said "This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated", and united governments said "It came from a bat in a wetmarket, and saying anything to the contrary is ridiculous!", but slammed the door on conversation about things like the Wuhan lab leak theory. 

Quote

How adult of you to tell someone to F off in a discussion just because they don't agree with you. Understandable coming from you though.

I told someone to F off in a discussion because they were accusing the unvaxed of being 'tribal', as if that was somehow our fault. We were forced into this 'tribe' and then discriminated against in the most extreme ways possible as a result of being here. 

You can keep on lying and gaslighting us about the safety and efficacy of the pseudovax until the cows come home and I don't care, it's what you do and I've come to expect it from you, but name-calling us for being in the group that you put us in isn't gonna fly. 

I'm not gonna pretend to be friendly in that scenario. I'm not Christian, and forgiveness isn't something that I expect of myself. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by WestCanMan

[WestCanMan]

Just now, Contrarian said:

Oh please, you apologised to me because I posted that news with Elon Musk supporting the Republicans now. In your eyes you see me part of the tribe now ?

I am saying -> that everyone has the potential to become tribal "We all do it". You became very defensive because you are excited. This week is when the adrenaline is pumping. Midterms in the US. Is when the radio hosts make their money, especially in the US, from you. = )

I became very defensive because I'm "actually in a tribe" that's not of my own making, and that's the context here, in this thread. This is also a thread about "the necessity of martial law in Canada to stop people from protesting for their basic freedoms." That's pretty heavy too. I've actually avoided this thread for the most part. 

And in case you haven't noticed, I'm not really involved in the politics of the mid-terms either.

Yes, I've seen all the ironic fear-mongering about "It's the end of democracy if we don't maintain complete control of the democracy" from no less than the POTUS himself and the previous Dem POTUS, but again, I've come to expect that from those people. I'm no more excited about that than I am about seeing a blooper reel from Timbits hockey. 

I'll be excited when the divisive, hateful rhetoric ends. Politics has gone far beyond the pale recently. Congressmen were shot, and politicians were to blame, in no small way.

What we're seeing in the US looks a whole lot like a democracy collapsing in front of our eyes. We like to think that democracy is the pinnacle of evolution but maybe it was just a doomed experiment right from the start.

Humans are mammals, and packs aren't democratic in nature. That's why the vast majority of humans have lived in autocracies for almost all of our recorded history, and it's why even today democracy is still a pipe dream for most of the humans on earth. The media, federal police, and  possible even a majority of Americans are all on one side. It's not good. 

[ExFlyer]

24 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

I believe the stats I see on infobase Canada, and if you don't that's your problem. 

I obviously don't watch TikTok beause I'm not 12 and I'm not a leftist, but FYI FB has been virtually fact-free this whole time.

....

I told someone to F off in a discussion because t....

You can keep on lying and gaslighting us ....

...

HA, you are actually getting info from the Government of Canada that you keep saying is full of BS?? Now that is a good one. LOL

You are the one constantly showing or linking to youtube, facebook and any video that fit your narrative.

You always basically tell anyone that disagrees with you to f off or equivalent LOL

I am gaslighting and lying??? See, there  ya go.

 

[Queenmandy85]

I find myself in a zone of hypocracy when I look at the similarities between the Ottawa event and the education support workers. I disapprove of the freedom convoy and support the workers.

Huh. Go figure. Me a hypocrite. Who woulda thought.

 

[herbie]

6 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

I said anyone and everyone can question authority.

What is your post about??

the reason they question authority. I thought that was obvious.

[myata]

3 minutes ago, herbie said:

the reason they question authority... obvious

Of course. There right and wrong reasons for that and only the Central Committee will know. How else?

[WestCanMan]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

HA, you are actually getting info from the Government of Canada that you keep saying is full of BS?? Now that is a good one. LOL

You are the one constantly showing or linking to youtube, facebook and any video that fit your narrative.

You always basically tell anyone that disagrees with you to f off or equivalent LOL

I am gaslighting and lying??? See, there  ya go.

I believe "THE STATS" I see on there. The number of deaths, deaths by vax status, vax timeline, etc.

It's a fact that they present everything in a manner where it's most likely to be misinterpreted by the average Joe. 

For example, eyeball gets fixated on the fact that the number of unvaxed towers over other groups, eg the 4xers. The unvaxed column towers over them like that because they're all in one group, while the "vaxed" are broken down into 5 smaller groups, two of which aren't even shown on the chart anymore (people who had a jab and died before the waiting period ended, and people who had 1 dose plus the waiting period). Of course when they're in 5 small groups the impression you get is "wow, look at the huge column on the left!"

No amount of explaining can make eyeball understand that more vaxed people died than unvxed, or that cumulatively the exposure to covid by both groups is more or less the same because at one point all 38M of us were unvaccinated, and that was during the first flu season that we went through with covid present.

Another example s Hodad, who considers himself a bit of a stat guru, but he got busted for posting a graph from that site which shows that "4.5% of covid deaths are among the quadruple-vaxed." That's maybe the most misleading thing I've ever seen, because:

-It's a completely meaningless stat (explained later)

-most people will take that to mean "4.5% of the people who recently died", when it actually means "since the first day that a single Canadian got the first dose", which was a year and a half, and two flu seasons, before anyone was vaxed for the 4th time. 

I say it was completely meaningless because 38M Canadians went through 2 flu seasons and 2 summers and were transitioning between different vaccination levels that whole time, so their exposure was far longer plus it was massively different than for the 4xers, whose stats at that point in time only reflected their exposure during one summer. It's like comparing how many injuries 3 players had in one pre-season to the number of injuries the rest of the team got in 2 years, including the playoffs. "Wow, these guys are iron-men. They only had 1% of the team's injuries!". An intelligent reply might include something like "There were 14 fights in the Boston series. It was a bit rougher than those pre-season games."

And fwiw, a lot of 4xers died this summer. Almost no one dies of covid in the summer, even in 2020 that was the case. 

There's also not a place anywhere that they compare covid deaths by vax status over meaningful time intervals. That's about the most important stat there is.

There's not a place anywhere that they compare how well we did in 2022, with 85% of us vaxed, wit how well we did in early 2021, when no one was vaxed. 

They limit their comparisons to things that we don't care about, and are generally meaningless, like "What percent of cases resulted in deaths". FYI no one ever knows how many cases there are, because not everyone goes to see a Dr. or gets tested. It stands to reason that the hypochondriacs and sycophants who bought into covid fear porn get tested more and go to the Dr more often. 

Anyways, the raw stats are worth looking at, but the things they try to "show" with their stats vary from 'completely meaningless' to 'misleading', and all skewed towards making the psedudovaxes look legit. 

 

Whether you're gaslighting or just out of your depth, your comments on covid stats aren't generally 'useful'.

Edited November 7, 2022 by WestCanMan

[dialamah]

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I find myself in a zone of hypocracy when I look at the similarities between the Ottawa event and the education support workers. I disapprove of the freedom convoy and support the workers.

Huh. Go figure. Me a hypocrite. Who woulda thought.

 

Are the teachers blockading streets and disturbing an entire neighborhood late into the night?  Are businesses closing as a result of their strike? 

[myata]

21 hours ago, dialamah said:

disturbing an entire neighborhood late into the night

Have you ever been to Ottawa Parliament"" district? Or only parroting propaganda?

[ExFlyer]

46 minutes ago, myata said:

Have you ever been to Ottawa Parliament"" district? Or only parroting propaganda?

I have, many times. My daughter lives down there. He point is right.

[myata]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

He point is right. My daughter lives down there.

You two have to be from some alternate reality-universe. Happens all the time, in that district.

[WestCanMan]

On 11/7/2022 at 12:10 PM, dialamah said:

Are the teachers blockading streets and disturbing an entire neighborhood late into the night?  

Did they drive all the way to Ottawa from Vancouver Island, or Nfld? 

[West]

The commission is attacking the wrong people... 

Trudeau says things like "should we tolerate these people"? When talking about the unvaxxed yet doesn't get questioned about whether or not he's inciting violence. 

We know the convoy had death threats. Why is nobody asking Trudeau to take responsibility

[myata]

2 hours ago, West said:

Why is nobody asking Trudeau to take responsibility

Because it's not a word... here? ... (for politicians in general and certainly not Very Important Ones).

Edited November 9, 2022 by myata

[myata]

It's only a show with no consequences and everybody knows. Need to be played out but so slow and boring and everybody knows the outcome why bother putting energy into the role? Sad, silly theater. And the outcome, already written.

Edited November 9, 2022 by myata

[eyeball]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:45 AM, WestCanMan said:

I believe "THE STATS" I see on there. The number of deaths, deaths by vax status, vax timeline, etc.

It's a fact that they present everything in a manner where it's most likely to be misinterpreted by the average Joe. 

For example, eyeball gets fixated on the fact that the number of unvaxed towers over other groups, eg the 4xers. The unvaxed column towers over them like that because they're all in one group, while the "vaxed" are broken down into 5 smaller groups, two of which aren't even shown on the chart anymore (people who had a jab and died before the waiting period ended, and people who had 1 dose plus the waiting period). Of course when they're in 5 small groups the impression you get is "wow, look at the huge column on the left!"

I'm just a little amused that you wouldn't use any sort of graph that shows graphically what you're trying to say instead of a graph that shows how 15% of you people who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible for half the deaths.

[eyeball]

On 11/7/2022 at 11:45 AM, WestCanMan said:

There's also not a place anywhere that they compare covid deaths by vax status over meaningful time intervals. That's about the most important stat there is.

The intervals obviously correspond to the status 1 shot 2 shots 3 etc. You knew this yourself for a moment but since you can't think straight what you say from one moment to the next is neither here nor there. 

Quote

I believe "THE STATS" I see on there. The number of deaths, deaths by vax status, vax timeline, etc.

 

[Zeitgeist]

This is the best and most succinct  article I’ve read on why Trudeau was completely out of line in his government’s handling of the Trucker Convoy::

https://financialpost.com/opinion/joe-oliver-emergencies-act-civil-liberties/wcm/e31a0155-4cbb-4448-9dc2-438f6d4b8f94/amp/

A Quote from Joe Oliver:

”The Rouleau Commission has now heard sworn testimony that the Freedom Convoy was not foreign funded and did not constitute a threat to democracy and that the Emergencies Act was not needed or asked for by any police force. That reflects very poorly on the prime minister. The act’s invocation was the worst peacetime assault on civil liberties since Pierre Trudeau’s use of the War Measures Act during the FLQ crisis 52 years ago — when a Quebec cabinet minister was assassinated and a British trade commissioner held hostage.  Yet restricting the rights of 38 million Canadians has not attracted the widespread outrage it merits because the blue-collar protesters it targeted are widely viewed with disdain, including by much of the mainstream media. This selective indifference is both distressing and dangerous. Suspending civil liberties because of a peaceful protest that went on too long sets a low bar that puts everyone’s freedom at risk.“

[West]

5 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'm just a little amused that you wouldn't use any sort of graph that shows graphically what you're trying to say instead of a graph that shows how 15% of you people who refuse to get vaccinated are responsible for half the deaths.

Same old inflammatory rhetoric