Trucker's Convoy

[Zeitgeist]

20 minutes ago, Goddess said:

I lived in Nevada, had a house in Vegas for 8 years.  It was wonderful.  Worst thing I did was sell.

My sister and I are looking at Costa Rica right now.  We're like you - seriously thinking of getting the he!! outta Dodge.

There are websites now with information on how Canadians can get out of the country.  Very helpful.

I want out of Canada right now.  I have British citizenship but I can’t roll the dice with employment for my kids’ sake. I keep hoping most Canadians will wake up to the fact that their basic freedoms are suspended indefinitely without reasonable justification, but I think many people here have given up.  No one wants to be fired or canceled for questioning government policies.  Look how average people supporting the convoy are treated by government and media.  The PM won’t even meet with the leaders.  

Edited February 2, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[myata]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

I keep hoping most Canadians will wake up to the fact that their basic freedoms are suspended indefinitely

It won't happen. We should face the reality. Just look around.

[West]

Study from John Hopkins shows lockdowns did very little to stop Covid-19 deaths. 

https://www.kabc.com/2022/02/01/johns-hopkins-report-lockdowns-did-not-work/

 

[BubberMiley]

25 minutes ago, Shady said:

No.  Shutting things down isn’t for limiting deaths.  You’re still operating on that false narrative.

But you agree there are factors you don't want to identify that would justify lockdowns?

[myata]

4 minutes ago, West said:

Study from John Hopkins shows lockdowns did very little to stop Covid-19 deaths. 

https://www.kabc.com/2022/02/01/johns-hopkins-report-lockdowns-did-not-work/

 

Right. A wave to the peak is 6-8 weeks without lockdown. And the same time with. But look it worked!

[Shady]

8 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

But you agree there are factors you don't want to identify that would justify lockdowns?

Initially yes, to figure out why people are getting sick and from what.

[Goddess]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I want out of Canada right now.  I have British citizenship but I can’t roll the dice with employment for my kids’ sake. I keep hoping most Canadians will wake up to the fact that their basic freedoms are suspended indefinitely without reasonable justification, but I think many people here have given up.  No one wants to be fired or canceled for questioning government policies.  Look how average people supporting the convoy are treated by government and media.  The PM won’t even meet with the leaders.  

Ya, the websites are full of people trying to get out of Canada. We're not alone.

I think a lot of Canadians are like the proverbial "frog being boiled alive" right now.  They don't even realize that Canada is the most restrictive country right now (besides Australia).  If you just read CBC and CTV and other MSM, they are still ramping up the fear - it's clear the Trudeau government has zero intentions of opening up again.  When I saw that Trudeau had bought vaccines to jab everybody 8-10 times over and plans for this at least until 2025....I knew we were finished.  Our country is gone.

This trucker convoy, and the way Trudeau has just refused to even discuss, tells me we are circling the drainpipe. Lots of are trying to swim our way against the current to get out.

[BubberMiley]

Just now, Shady said:

Initially yes, to figure out why people are getting sick and from what.

What if that lockdown works and the virus is contained so few are dying? What data do you then use to decide when and how to reopen?

[Army Guy]

24 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I want out of Canada right now.  I have British citizenship but I can’t roll the dice with employment for my kids’ sake. I keep hoping most Canadians will wake up to the fact that their basic freedoms are suspended indefinitely without reasonable justification, but I think many people here have given up.  No one wants to be fired or canceled for questioning government policies.  Look how average people supporting the convoy are treated by government and media.  The PM won’t even meet with the leaders.  

No but he will bend a knee for BLM. 

[West]

3 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

What if that lockdown works and the virus is contained so few are dying? What data do you then use to decide when and how to reopen?

But they didn't work. John Hopkins has already debunked this

[Goddess]

I work for a company that sells emergency prepping gear and I can tell you this - a year ago, I was the only employee.  Now there are 4 of us and we cannot keep up with the orders.  We desperately need 2 more people.

Orders with $2-3000 dollars worth of freeze dried meals are now common, one goes out nearly every day.  $5000 food orders are several times a month.  $3000 hot tents with $700 woodstoves we cannot keep in stock. 

People are prepping.  Deep down people know this is bad.

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

What if that lockdown works and the virus is contained so few are dying? What data do you then use to decide when and how to reopen?

It should be up to each individual as to the risk they’re willing to accept.  It’s not up to the government to decide for me.

[Accountability Now]

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

  I listened to a medical doctor on CBC

I now see why you are misguided. 

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

It's not correct to say the vaccine is ineffective for Omicron.  All medical professionals say the vaccine generally helps prevent serious illness with Omicron.  It helps prevent hospitalization, and fewer deaths and long Covid.

Its really amazing to see people like you that don't actually read what was said. Why are you talking about hospitalizations and ICU when your initial point and the recent discussion point is about SPREAD. Here is what I said:

13 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

2. The vaccines are basically ineffective at preventing infection with Omicron, hence the reason why they are trying to create a new Omicron vaccine. 

There are four main categories when it comes to vaccine efficacy:

1. Prevention of Infection (Transmission)

2. Prevention of Hospitalization

3. Prevention of Serious Hospitalization (ICU)

4. Death

My original comment on my first rebuttal to you PLUS my comment above are about the vaccine's inability to stop transmission. Fully vaxxed people are still getting the virus and spreading it at statistically similar rates to unvaxxed. Even the triple vaxxed people like your hero JT are contracting the virus. Does this suggest to you that the vaccine is stopping spread???  Instead of arguing this point, you in turn argue on Points 2 and 3. I will gladly have a conversation on those too if you want but its kind of pointless if you're not going to argue this properly. 

12 hours ago, blackbird said:

You can believe what you want, but I believe the experts.  Mandates are not useless.  They reduce the amount of spread.

Well...let's take a look at the Ontario cases per 100k. 

If you look at start of this data set on Nov 5, the cases for unvaccinated were 4X the amount of the vaccinated. That ratio kept lowering as we approached December and then on Christmas day, the cases per 100k for the vaccinated actually overtook the unvaccinated (You see that Green line spiking up). This was Omicron. As you can see by Jan 5, the fully vaccinated were 1.3X the amount of cases compared to the unvaxxed. Does this mean the vaccine was causing you to catch the virus....NO. The reason the fully vaxxed were catching it is because they were the ones allow out in these critical spaces that the mandates were supposed to protect. In other words...the mandates weren't just useless but were actually harmful as they provided a false sense of security allowing fully vaxxed to spread this. As you can see now that things are calming down, both rates are very close to each other which again suggests the vaccine is doing nothing to stop the spread.

Remember....there are hundreds of experts and some of them have different views. You saying the experts agree is clearly not the case as countries around the world have already removed their mandates and provinces are taking the next steps to do the same. Mandates are not useful with Omicron....plain and simple. 

[Yzermandius19]

20 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

What if that lockdown works and the virus is contained so few are dying? What data do you then use to decide when and how to reopen?

what if pigs fly?

the virus is not contained by the lockdown and pigs don't fly

[Accountability Now]

19 hours ago, Boges said:

The un-answerable question is how much more additional death would have been experienced had COVID been left unchecked in more densely population North American communities. 

That is a great beer time conversation and like you said...un-answerable. My basic argument on this is people that were really susceptible to this virus were going to die no matter what. Hence the reason we saw a sizeable number of vaccinated deaths. There was a second group of lesser susceptibility that benefitted from vaccine and those are the numbers that would be of interest knowing.  

Unchecked it probably would have been like the Spanish Flu....larger, immediate hit but the pandemic wouldn't have lasted as long.  

I spoke to a friend's dad who is a retired ER doctor at the start of this and he made an off the cuff comment that our society has changed in that back in the days of the Spanish Flu, people just thought if the flu killed you then you were probably going to die from something else anyway. Today's society doesn't think that way as we believe an extension of life is worth it. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with the morals of this statement but I would agree that our society's view on expectations has changed. 

 

[Nexii]

Omicron is so contagious that lockdown is a lost cause. 

The side people don't consider enough is the economic cost of lockdown. All that economic loss could be put back into healthcare funding.

 

 

[Yzermandius19]

4 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Omicron is so contagious that lockdown is a lost cause. 

The side people don't consider enough is the economic cost of lockdown. All that economic loss could be put back into healthcare funding.

all of the strains were so contagious that lockdown was a lost cause

Omicron especially so

the pro-lockdown crowd don't consider any of the downsides and engage in wishful thinking to manufacture upsides

they don't want to hear that the government can't protect them, they would rather engage in obvious delusions than admit the truth

[myata]

1 hour ago, Goddess said:

There are websites now with information on how Canadians can get out of the country. 

Justine will love that. He'll move independent, free minded Canadians out of the country, and bring in millions of immigrants who'll depend on his generosity and vote for him. Sounds like can't loose scenario. They have a great country to sell and so it can go on for quite a while.

[Faramir]

2 hours ago, Yzermandius19 said:

I'd recommend Tennessee, Nevada, Florida or Texas

don't move to a blue state

they are as loony tunes as Canada

Except you would be going from the fire pan into the fire. The USA Republic is over.  It is now a banana republic where Mexicans and Democrats call the shots during elections.

[Faramir]

2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Unfortunately Canada isn’t as free as the United States, but the states also vary in their levels of freedom. California and New York states are marginally freer than most Canadian provinces right now, but Americans are fleeing California and New York for states like Florida and Texas.  Even Democrats are making the move.  When even members of the radical Democratic  wing are vacationing in Florida to feel free again (AOC), well, actions speak louder than words.

The point is that freedom has tremendous inherent value. The importance of the truck convoy is preventing government from being able to violate our rights and freedoms at will.  In Canada, individuals don’t have discretion over their own healthcare.  Don’t obey the mandates and your basic citizens’ rights are removed.  It’s totalitarian.  

And liberals are already ruining Texas.  Texas becomes more liberal every day.

[Army Guy]

34 minutes ago, BubberMiley said:

What if that lockdown works and the virus is contained so few are dying? What data do you then use to decide when and how to reopen?

 

Lock downs only slow the spread they don't prevent it.... If the death rate per 100,00 was to climb drastically Then you would be looking at a much different lock down than what we have now, They have already identified a new covid that kills one in every 3 people that come in contact with New COVID Variant NeoCoV Found, Could Be Deadlier And Incurable (onlymyhealth.com) (" note it has just been discovered, and not known to have any human cases, they are studying it, that being said the same scientist in Wuhan are waring about it...") 

currently we have Vaccinated people here in NB doing what ever they want shopping in the mall , going to the gym, going to work etc...with a few restrictions wear a mask,.. and not a real one paper is fine, or a home made one, or a neck scarf is fine, wash your hands if you want to.. If you are unvaccinated well you can still get food, drugs, beer, gas, food delivery... you just can not go out like a vaccinated person...

The military use to plan and exercise this a few times, and the plan is simple ,  If the death rate was much higher, like 1 in 3 infected would die like a new covid virus found see above , Then you would need a total lock down, the area of infection would be on lock down .....no one in no one out, no travel at all, people locked down to their houses....essential services would be looked after by government depts like military or police, fire hall etc to deliver food, pick up the serious sick or dead, massive quarantine areas would be set up,(waiting areas for the sick to die or recover)life as we would know it would change for ever...

But wait we don't have enough people in our government departments to accomplish all this for big cities like Toronto , Montreal or Vancouver..so they would either get all the services but not all the major cities or none of them and let the country side get the services...much more manageable with the resources we have now.

So what do you think would happen if the death rate was a high as the predicted on the new corvid virus...there is very little you could do as a government really, our medical systems would be quickly over whelmed, every way of burying our dead would be over whelmed, who is going to deliver food , fuel to the cities, where is this food coming from in the winter...our emergency services would be over whelmed and with massive shortages of food, water, fuel how long do you think it would take for law abiding folks to get very unruly. and once that happens no one is getting any services except maybe bullet for breaking the law..., and then it is only a quick matter of time before they are over whelmed...and you guessed it every man , women for themselves.

 

[Faramir]

33 minutes ago, myata said:

Justine will love that. He'll move independent, free minded Canadians out of the country, and bring in millions of immigrants who'll depend on his generosity and vote for him. Sounds like can't loose scenario. They have a great country to sell and so it can go on for quite a while.

OK so the wife and I use to attend a bible study in our local and a couple from Portland moved to Canada.  I thought Canadians were bad, but these guys were looney toons liberal. They went on on how they want to change their father because he has too many guns and is too conservative.  That is how the liberal left think. 

The funny part is they had to move back to Oregon because the cost of living was out of control in Canada.  LOL.

[myata]

1 minute ago, Faramir said:

they had to move back to Oregon because the cost of living was out of control in Canada.  LOL.

That works, may take a while to sink in though. Gas at the pump today above 1.50 one of the highest yet.

[blackbird]

Back to the subject of the so-called "freedom convoy".  It is clear in the news that the Ottawa police and the Mayor have totally failed to remove the thugs and illegal occupiers from the streets of Ottawa.  They adopted a strategy of non-confrontation in order to avoid possible violence.  This is a complete farse.  The occupiers are walking all over the authorities and can insult and block whoever they want and prevent the people of Ottawa from returning to normal life and the police will do nothing.  They have been given assurance that the police will not forcefully remove them.  This is a very tragic direction for Canada.  This is the kind of thing that leads to totalitarian  systems.  If the regular police can't do the job, maybe they should ask China or Russia how to handle it.  I'm sure they would have a pretty good idea.

[Army Guy]

2 minutes ago, myata said:

That works, may take a while to sink in though. Gas at the pump today above 1.50 one of the highest yet.

Take a look at diesel prices...well past 1.63 here in NB