Majority of Canadians support firing of unvaccinated.

[CITIZEN_2015]

16 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Nah, you said we were enemies. I prefer that route. 

But I had said it in the original post. Don't get vaccinated and walk among us (or cough on me).

[WestCanMan]

Relax. Duels are illegal. I was just being a dick about your point of calling us 'enemies'. Not cool bro.

 

[WestCanMan]

Babylon Bee had another great meme today.

"Australian Hospitals Over Capacity With People Beaten By Police For Not Wearing Masks"

Another one, not quite related to this topic was "Amazon Creates App To Allow The Timid To Loot From Home."

 

[Winston]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

The number of unvaccinated people hospitalized in BC is far greater than the number of vaccinated.

 

 

There is a concerning trend of increased vaccinated individual hospitalizations and number of cases. 

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-01-Data_Summary.pdf

October 2021

25 % of cases 

14 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 33%

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-11-11-Data_Summary.pdf

November 2021

35 % of cases 

23 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 47%

Even accounting for increased vaccinated population (5%) over the time period, there was a 8% increase in cases and a 9% increase in hospitalizations. Even deaths have increased by 14%.  

Even taking into account increased group size, why are all of these rates increasing at a disproportional rate?

 

With respect to the unvaccinated, there is a decrease in individual hospitalization and number of cases. 

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-01-Data_Summary.pdf

October 2021

68 % of cases 

79 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 62%

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-11-11-Data_Summary.pdf

November 2021

59 % of cases 

71 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 50%

Resulting in a 9% decrease in cases, 8% decrease in hospitalizations and a 12% decrease in deaths with respect to the unvaccinated group.

Even taking into account decreased group size, why are all of these rates decreasing at a disproportional rate?

Edited November 24, 2021 by Winston

[Winston]

34 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

But I had said it in the original post. Don't get vaccinated and walk among us (or cough on me).

With a 8% increase in cases over the past few months in the vaccinated group, I would say walking among any infected group could be quite contagious. 

[Infidel Dog]

4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No matter how you small minority in the country (but majority in this forum) attack us (the overwhelming majority who support vaccination, and are vaccinated close to 90%) we are winning the battle of science over ignorance and arrogance. More and more people are vaccinated and our elected governments are going to make it such that every day more and more you unvaccinated people are excluded from public life. So eat your heart out.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum is a fallacious argument which is based on affirming that something is real because the majority thinks so. Other names for the fallacy include common belief fallacy or appeal to (common) belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to the masses, appeal to popularity, argument from consensus, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, consensus gentium, democratic fallacy, mob appeal, and truth by association.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

Edited November 24, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

I'm not allowed to post videos on the open board with the board's viewing software but if anybody would like to see the face of Citizen's "consensus of the majority" have a look at the video linked below. Trust me it's worth it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OsoqLcZR2s&t=1s

 

Edited November 24, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Yzermandius19]

19 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

https://globalnews.ca/news/8376304/covid-vaccine-refusal-termination-poll/

And I am one of them. Vaccination against Covid is NOT a choice you think you can have with your body because your chances of getting infected without full vaccine is much higher and hence the chances of transmission to others (your family, friends, innocent bystanders) are much higher. Governments can indeed mandate vaccination for the good of citizens same way they mandate the crossing of red traffic light or driving after drinking in order to protect the public.

If you are unvaccinated walking among us then you are the enemy and you should be treated as such.

nah you're the enemy

as are the majority of Canadians

vaccination does not prevent spreading the disease

y'all shout science from the rooftops

but science doesn't back firing people because of their vaccination status

it's about compliance not science

and y'all are liars pretending it's about anything else

you know you're lying

we know you're lying

you know that we know you're lying

and you keep lying anyway

despicable

Edited November 24, 2021 by Yzermandius19

[dialamah]

13 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Yeah neither are drunk drivers who kill people or those who don't stop at traffic lights or stop signs and kill people. They are just misguided. Poor people they don't deserve punishment just need to be sent to guidance schools.!!!!!!!!!

Unlike anti-vaxers, drunk drivers aren't being subjected to Qanon and troll farms telling them that driving sober is more dangerous than driving drunk and that prohibition of drunk driving is an infringement of their personal rights and freedoms.

[myata]

Clueless "travel from Wuhan, sure" exsperts turning to authoritarian methods is no surprise, just another token of an arrogant ignorance, like we needed more. The purported panacea prevents neither infection nor transmission. As vaccinated outbreaks show these are not rare "breakthroughs" but can be a common case. A trumpeted fully vaxxed worker bringing it to a vulnerable resident with waning protection under a false umbrella of safety.

Here's a question: if it would end up in another flop, or Heavens forbid, some side effects coming out in vaxxed children decades on, will anyone take responsibility for ignoring, dismissing and not addressing questions and concerns raised NOW? Or would it be another of doctor-exspert Charlie Smith, indigenous children so many other belated oops affairs?

Thanks to the virus, ironically, we now know, there's no way escaping it, that this is not an isolated "breakthrough", a rare exception, no. This is how we live, who we are and how the country works. And it means that in all likelihood, there won't be pleasant surprises.

Edited November 24, 2021 by myata

[dialamah]

11 hours ago, Army Guy said:

There has been lots of misinformation being spread around by both camps,

Well, I'd disagree with this - the activity of troll farms  in China, Russia and Iran to undermine the Western world's confidence in their institutions is behind a lot of the misinformation about the effectiveness of the vaccine.  The misinformation from health experts in the Western world is more that we continue to learn things about the virus as time passes.  I don't think that can even be called misinformation.

Quote

listen and discuss it like adults

Ok, challenge accepted. 

I don't like mandates, I don't like people losing their jobs due to vaccination status either.  It makes me extremely sad.  

However, consider for a moment that what the experts are telling us is actually true: vaccinations are almost 100% safe (no vaccine is 100% safe), unvaxed people are more likely to spread the virus and shed more virus than unvaxed, more likely to make others sick than vaxed people.    Should I be forced to share my workspace with someone who is more likely to get sick and spread that sickness to me?  Given that I'm among the more vulnerable of the world, should I accept without objection the risk young, healthy unvaxed people present to me?   Should I, part of the majority of the world, be told to stay home because I'm "vulnerable", so that a person who refuses to get vaccinated can go to work?  Should businesses accept the heightened risk that multiple staff will be off work because of having unvaxed staff?  In Canada, at least, businesses have a responsibility to provide a safe work place, to the best of their ability.  If the 'best of their ability' means limiting exposure to disease, and the unvaxed increase the likelihood of spreading that disease, what should they do?

If the experts are correct that unvaxed are more likely to get sick from the virus, more likely to get hospitalized from the virus and more likely to die, should I not object when they fill up the hospitals and affect my health care?  How much more can our health care system take before it collapses completely?

Mandates suck.  But so does 'rewarding' people who get vaxed, as Chapman's found out.  Rather than use a stick to force vaccinations, they decided to use rewards to encourage vaccinations - $1.00 an hour for those who vaccinated.  In addition, they didn't require vaccinations; if you didn't want to get vaccinated, no problem - but you had to take two tests per week.  You know, that didn't matter: the anti-vax activists attacked Chapman's with a vengeance - even calling a 78-year-old man to call him a Nazi and war criminal.  

Again, mandates suck.  But I don't know what governments and businesses are supposed to do in this situation.  If they impose mandates and people still get sick, they're the bad guys.  If they don't impose mandates and even more people get sick, they're the bad guys.  If they don't impose mandates, but reward vaccination, they're the bad guys.

If someone chooses not to get vaccinated, that's their right - I agree.  They tell us they accept the risk of remaining unvaccinated - more likely to get sick, more likely to end up in hospital, more likely to die.  But the additional risk they take is loss of income, limited travel and limited social activity.  By choosing to remain unvaccinated, they accept those risks as well.  Except they don't; they hysterically call others Nazis, compare themselves to Jews, demand that nobody be concerned about the additional risk they pose to others and to our health care system.  

That's my perspective; I don't think anti-vax people are bad or evil.  I think they are misled by numerous sources of misinformation, they should accept all consequences of their decision, and let the rest of us get on with our lives without having to take extra precautions to protect ourselves from unvaccinated people.

(Of course, if you believe that governments are simply focused on control - ignoring all the restrictions they keep lifting whenever case counts go down - and that experts all over the world are in on the goal of totalitarian control, then of course nothing in the above will make any sense.)

(Also, I should have said "abortions" are not contagious, not pregnancy; they don't get passed from person to person, killing some in the process.)

[DogOnPorch]

Well one thing is for certain...this has sure brought-out the Sepp Dietrich and Ilse Koch in apparently once civil Canadians.

Ja, Ja, Ja!!! You are der enemy und need to be locked up!!!

 

[blackbird]

10 hours ago, Winston said:

 

There is a concerning trend of increased vaccinated individual hospitalizations and number of cases. 

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-01-Data_Summary.pdf

October 2021

25 % of cases 

14 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 33%

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-11-11-Data_Summary.pdf

November 2021

35 % of cases 

23 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 47%

Even accounting for increased vaccinated population (5%) over the time period, there was a 8% increase in cases and a 9% increase in hospitalizations. Even deaths have increased by 14%.  

Even taking into account increased group size, why are all of these rates increasing at a disproportional rate?

 

With respect to the unvaccinated, there is a decrease in individual hospitalization and number of cases. 

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-10-01-Data_Summary.pdf

October 2021

68 % of cases 

79 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 62%

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-11-11-Data_Summary.pdf

November 2021

59 % of cases 

71 % hospitalizations 

Deaths 50%

Resulting in a 9% decrease in cases, 8% decrease in hospitalizations and a 12% decrease in deaths with respect to the unvaccinated group.

Even taking into account decreased group size, why are all of these rates decreasing at a disproportional rate?

The overwhelming majority of medical experts in the field say vaccination does make a difference.  While it doesn't completely prevent one from catching the virus, it reduces the chances and reduces the chances of serious illness and hospitalization.  It is morally wrong to say otherwise and try to downplay the importance of vaccination for everyone.

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

mob appeal

That's the most appropriate name in this instance.

The same idiotic mob that believed the WHO was following the science, it's racist to consider the Wuhan lab as the source of the pandemic, banning flights from China was racist, Trudeau fought covid like a genius, Trump fought covid like a stooge, Cuomo was a hero, Dr Ford was a credible witness, prisons should be emptied, Rayshard was innocent, Brionna was shot in bed, Floyd was killed because of his race, the riots were mostly peaceful, the Jan 6th rioters were all white supremacists, etc, are just a mob that gets sucked into every idiotic narrative coming from MSNBC.

They can look back on that list and deny the extent to which they were duped and the next time that CNN or CTV says something inflammatory and stupid they'll hop on that bandwagon like a fat kid on a twinkie. 

[RedDog]

I don’t like the term “firing”. It’s harsh and not really accurate. I prefer that X number of employees freely chose to accept unpaid leave rather than be vaccinated. The outcome is entirely in their hands.

[myata]

What we didn't have before "based on overwhelming opinion" of some exsperts, only is mandatory restrictions of citizens rights, termination from job and benefits. All of that without any explanation of reasons, evidence, discussion, weighing of options, no forget it. Just so, we think so you do.

Do you notice the slope? And does not it bring up an obvious question: what next?

What is called a society of mandatory and total regular revaccination under the fear of total isolation or worse in perpetuity for as long as necessary as decided by a caste of unknown and anonymous priests? Do you want to live in such a society? 

And how far are we from it, as of now? Like how many steps left? And is it still called "a democracy"?

[DogOnPorch]

With all the 'gain of function' going-on in the labs...I'd be careful what you put into your hot little bod claiming it to be a vaccine. For all we know, the 'vaccine' merely accomplishes what the 'virus' was put on Earth for. But you trust people that do not deserve any trust what-so-ever. So get that jab and feel smug. At this point, it's almost essential...wait...it is essential...to have a control group that does NOT take the 'vaccine'. You know...just in case.

[Goddess]

14 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I can not for the life of me figure out why it is so difficult to understand the simple fact and logic that everyone under 25 comes in contact with many over 25 year old including elderly grandparents, parents they live it or innocent bystanders and has a proven much greater chance of transmissivity, In other words infecting others.

If all of these people are vaccinated, how are they in danger from unvaccinated people?

[Hal 9000]

It's not about the vaccine, it's about the QR codes.  The vaccine is simply a means to an end...it's a vehicle to coerce us to attach ourselves to the QR code.

[Army Guy]

14 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Now I am a leftist. Another poster called me a fascist. Oh yes in my view both are the same. I am none.

I am though surprised at Army Guy's posts in support of anti-vaxers in spite of all the facts presented. His posts are usually wise and factual!!!!

My bad Citizen, it was a joke, i apologize if it upset you. I just thought your post was on the leftist side of the house. 

It is not that i support anti vaxers in their stance, i am vaccinated, but only because of my age and health risks, with that info i made a choice... which is what i support the right to choose either way... and yes i understand that choices also come with consequences and most people are living within those consequences. But today they have been declared the enemy... that is taking it to another level. 

What i do not agree with, is all the rest of the of the measure to pressure people into getting vaccinated, regardless if they are compiling or not... and here in NB they have taken that to a new level, to the point that medical professional will not be able to practice their trade in the province "ever" if they refuse...meaning they are going to have to move away from friends and family on top of what ever they have already given up. we are just adding on to the already perfect storm we already have with employment shortages, only be made worse, along with supply chain issues , on top of every cost we pay is now sky rocketing...dividing us is not the answer , uniting is the solution.

This vaccination for kids is just not right, the stats do not support any of these claims, and when they do not hit their magic % number then what restrictions are they going to place upon them... more division. 

[DogOnPorch]

As we've all seen...in the name of 'safety'....people are MORE than willing to hand over ALL their freedom. Will they be shocked when the bus comes for them, too?

"You're not quite safe enough, citizen....come with us."

[OftenWrong]

48 minutes ago, RedDog said:

I don’t like the term “firing”. It’s harsh and not really accurate. I prefer that X number of employees freely chose to accept unpaid leave rather than be vaccinated. The outcome is entirely in their hands.

Not quite. Legally it represents a new contract between employer and employee, as any agreed upon vaccine mandate was not in place at the time of hiring. So it qualifies as a “constructive dismissal”.

[Goddess]

2 hours ago, dialamah said:

Should I be forced to share my workspace with someone who is more likely to get sick and spread that sickness to me?  Given that I'm among the more vulnerable of the world, should I accept without objection the risk young, healthy unvaxed people present to me?   Should I, part of the majority of the world, be told to stay home because I'm "vulnerable", so that a person who refuses to get vaccinated can go to work?  Should businesses accept the heightened risk that multiple staff will be off work because of having unvaxed staff?  In Canada, at least, businesses have a responsibility to provide a safe work place, to the best of their ability.  If the 'best of their ability' means limiting exposure to disease, and the unvaxed increase the likelihood of spreading that disease, what should they do?

None of this would matter, if the shots and boosters worked.

You're pretty much admitting what everyone already knows - they don't work.

If you're vaxxed and boosted and still deathly afraid of an unvaxxed co-worker......maybe that should tell you something.

[DogOnPorch]

Seeing that we are learning more about the virus...its likely origins in a bioweapons laboratory...I'm curious there aren't more questions as to what this virus is supposed to do. It's not lethal enough to be a weapon...but it is obviously accomplishing a goal.

Shall we guess what that is? Bah...you don't care. You haven't thought much about it...really. Have you?

[DogOnPorch]

5 minutes ago, Goddess said:

None of this would matter, if the shots and boosters worked.

You're pretty much admitting what everyone already knows - they don't work.

If you're vaxxed and boosted and still deathly afraid of an unvaxxed co-worker......maybe that should tell you something.

 

But if they don't work...and they KNOW they don't work...what, in fact, does it do?

Nobody is asking...