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myata

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Tell you what...I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours.

Brownstone Institute collected 102 scientific studies showing the following:

https://brownstone.org/articles/79-research-studies-affirm-naturally-acquired-immunity-to-covid-19-documented-linked-and-quoted/ 

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/why-covid-19-vaccines-offer-better-protection-than-infection

(Johns Hopkins)

"Virologist Sabra Klein, PhD ‘98, MS, MA, says an immense amount of data collected in a short time have made clear the safety and effectiveness of vaccines and the limited immunity that comes from being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. Klein is co-director of a new National Cancer Institute Center of Excellence that seeks to understand more about the diversity of immune responses and how sex, age, and other factors lead some people to have longer lasting immunity than others. "

My statement that immunity from infection is not as long lasting as vaccine immunity is still understudy according to the CDC. However, in order to get immunity from the virus, you have to become infected and that places the overwhelming burden on the healthcare system and the potential for death. Vaccine gives you the opportunity to avoid serious illness and death. The whole point is to keep people from dying and keep them out of hospital.

You may want to research your Brownstone Institute. It doesn't appear to have much credibility.

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1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Clot shot is hyperbole to make a point. There are many other known adverse reactions to the mRNA jab. The one that spooks me the most are the neurological disorders. 

I've heard some argue that adverse reactions are vastly under-reported.

I have to admit though, anecdotal evidence along with, reasoned conjecture and known facts glom together to sway me.

Here's one from my native BC that spooks me worse than any scary conjectures of what might be happening in the early weeks of the variant wave from Saskatchewan.

There's a Rumble video at the link

https://rumble.com/vm7uzj-b.c.-vax-pass-punishes-young-health-care-worker-who-cant-walk-following-mod.html

Rumble appears to be political and offers up ideologically based videos and conspiracy theories. 

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4 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

When Covid first appeared, they had to make educated guesses about contagion. We will probably never know the source of the virus. I presume we sent PPE to China because that was the epicentre at the time. (Just my guess because I never heard about that move.) Mask wearing was discouraged because of the shortage of masks for healthcare workers and we were all supposed to "stay the blazes Home." If you stayed away from people, you didn't need a mask. HCQ was never considered a treatment for Covid 19 except by people who didn't know what they were talking about. Hundreds of millions of people have been vaccinated with a tiny number of people who had serious side effects. The side effects of Covid are far more common and more serious than the vaccine. When the vaccines came out, it was expected to be about 85 percent effective, much better than the flu shot. The number of fully vaccinated people getting Covid is about 15 % which shows the vaccine is 85% effective. 

 

You're an apologist, and you don't have facts, just gibberish.

FYI "science" isn't all chemistry and biology. There are fundamentals of science that come from common sense. 

Old sayings like "A stitch in time saves nine", "Avoid it like the plague", and "Err on the side of caution" are applicable in epidemiology.

When a viral outbreak was known to have occurred, and it was known to be so deadly that the Chinese gov't was restricting travel within their own country, the WHO never should have advised countries to allow travel from Wuhan. 

For the WHO to say that H2H wasn't happening was obviously wrong when they said it, so it was an actual lie to overstate their level of certainty, not merely a bad guess. Furthermore, at the time they said it, there were infected people from the lab and there were people who were infected that had never even been to the wet market. It was more of a cover-up lie than a casual lie. 

Our MSM pushed those known lies to us, and people who talked about the BSL4 lab as a possible source were vilified. Trump was vilified for doing the absolute correct thing when he shut down travel from the source of the outbreak. Only really stupid people would let boatloads of people into their country with smallpox 300 years ago, and in 2020 it was ridiculous to let people from Wuhan fly into Canada. If you don't understand any of that, then just bow out of this debate, because it is obviously over your head.

We sent PPE to China while we were being told not to wear masks. We didn't even find out that they were planning to send the equipment there, we were just informed that it was being loaded up to be taken away.

LMAO, people weren't being told to "stay the blazes home". Our PM was letting foreigners come here and walk around freely for Pete's sake. The mayor of NYC was telling people to ride the subway like normal two weeks after Trump banned flights. Nancy Pelosi was walking in a crown n Chinatown hugging people almost a month later: https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/nancy-pelosi-visits-san-franciscos-chinatown/2240247/

FYI it was 45 days after Trump blocked flights from China that our gov't took their first actual, physical step to fight covid.

Quote

You have been mis-informed. My understanding is immunity from being infected apparently declines faster than the protection of mRNA vaccine. 

FYI "The anecdote that rewrote science" (you know the one: "there was a guy who got covid and then got it again and died") was bullshit too. Natural immunity vs C19 is real, it's just not as lucrative as ineffective 'vaccines'. 

Do you have a link that is backed by actual science, or did you just hear the famous anecdote on CTV and carve it in stone somewhere as "science"? Can you understand how we're not satisfied with your offering of: "My understanding is....... so trust me, you need to take the vaccine" 

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2 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You may want to research your Brownstone Institute. It doesn't appear to have much credibility.

I find you guys judge credibility by whether or not somebody agrees with you but it doesn't matter. They can link to scientific studies as efficiently as anybody else can. And currently it's 101 scientific studies to a non-link of what you believe the CDC may have said at some time and a link to some women's credentials.

So tell me some more about your superior credibility.

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This isolated case only brings home the conclusion that this is no longer a country that can think and make decisions objectively and rationally. This logic can be applied to anything and bye bye reason. A driver presumably under influence was convicted yesterday of dangerous driving killing a family of three. Let's make breath or no, better blood sample a blanket daily requirement for driving.

Worst of all is that our do-gooders don't seem to realize (or never cared about?) that psychological effects from massive propaganda of fear and mutual suspicion can last decades. Covid may be long gone as a serious problem in normal societies while here people would still be waking up at night at every sound of sneeze and washing masks for the day.

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45 minutes ago, myata said:

1. This isolated case only brings home the conclusion that this is no longer a country that can think and make decisions objectively and rationally.

2. This logic can be applied to anything and bye bye reason. A driver presumably under influence was convicted yesterday of dangerous driving killing a family of three. Let's make breath or no, better blood sample a blanket daily requirement for driving.

2. Worst of all is that our do-gooders don't seem to realize (or never cared about?) that psychological effects from massive propaganda of fear and mutual suspicion can last decades.

3. Covid may be long gone as a serious problem in normal societies while here people would still be waking up at night at every sound of sneeze and washing masks for the day.

1.  It is only an example of what happens.  We do make drinking and driving a crime, because it has the potential if hurting others.  We also made seatbelt wearing a legal requirement because it saved lives and reduced strain on our health care system.  

2.  Other than vaccinations, the same restrictions were applied, and the same conversations were had about personal freedoms during the flu pandemic from 1918.  Lo and behold, when the pandemic ended, so did all restrictions and people failed to live in fear "for decades".

3.  Look around: plenty of other societies have followed the same path Canada is following.  

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3 hours ago, dialamah said:

My friend's mom died from Covid; caught it from a "freedom-loving" family member who didn't think they needed to get vaccinated.  No hugging mom any more.  I suspect the "freedom loving" relative will be running short of hugs, too.

So, the mother was not double-vaccinated?

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18 minutes ago, dialamah said:

1.  It is only an example of what happens.  We do make drinking and driving a crime, because it has the potential if hurting others.  We also made seatbelt wearing a legal requirement because it saved lives and reduced strain on our health care system.  

2.  Other than vaccinations, the same restrictions were applied, and the same conversations were had about personal freedoms during the flu pandemic from 1918.  Lo and behold, when the pandemic ended, so did all restrictions and people failed to live in fear "for decades".

3.  Look around: plenty of other societies have followed the same path Canada is following. 

An isolated example always justifies a blanket policy? Why not universal mandatory blood sample to eliminate drunk driving if one can make that for mask wearing and coerced vaccinations? Has someone explained it, shown the differences, proven that it's necessary and not in general but every time it is called and applied? Or just pulled it out of the pocket "I happen to think so"? Like "travel from Wuhan not a problem"?

And how do you know that they did not? Did you live through those decades, from 1920s to 40s? And should we hunt with spears and bows and live in caves because somehow some time ago it was OK?

Edited by myata
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Just now, dialamah said:

Now time for you to ignore the scientific fact that breakthrough infections are a thing.  

So no matter what you force on people, without explanation, justification, proof, even meaningful answers you can always force more under a pretext of a single example? Once more, does it work for all problems, or those chosen arbitrarily, by who and how?

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2 minutes ago, myata said:

So no matter what you force on people, without explanation, justification, proof, even meaningful answers you can always force more under a pretext of a single example? Once more, does it work for all problems, or those chosen arbitrarily, by who and how?

And some people won't listen regardless of how much explanation, justification or meaningful answers you give them. You just have to move on without them.

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1 hour ago, myata said:

So no matter what you force on people, without explanation, justification, proof, even meaningful answers you can always force more under a pretext of a single example? Once more, does it work for all problems, or those chosen arbitrarily, by who and how?

Well, if you ignore all the science and can't see the millions of deaths that have occurred over the last 20 months ... It's not just one example that have resulted in our current situation.  

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21 minutes ago, dialamah said:

Well, if you ignore all the science and can't see the millions of deaths that have occurred over the last 20 months ... It's not just one example that have resulted in our current situation.  

the numbers are fake

they are of people who died and had covid

not just of people who died of covid

juking the stats

 

Edited by Yzermandius19
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1 hour ago, dialamah said:

Well, if you ignore all the science and can't see the millions of deaths that have occurred over the last 20 months ... It's not just one example that have resulted in our current situation.  

Discussing with you people any non-trivial issue is sort of bland and pointless. If there's a problem then something needs to be done. Then anything can be done, without any limits, conditions or explanations, right?! That's kindergarten-level discussion. Have you tried it there?

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In the meanwhile, in Norway with daily number of cases around 1,600 (no aiiiii! oiiiii! cries and hands in the air businesses running as usual) daily mortality (7 day average) is 1-2. In Ontario, with less than 400, the same number is 4. A double or even higher.

Question: how do you get, with one quarter of the cases, a double of negative outcomes? That's almost ten times worse outcome per case, for simplicity of understanding.

And here's how you get it: with crying and jumping, stupid and pointless distractions and deflections, pointless and confusing brainwashing and ridiculous imitation of policies like mask in the washroom in place of: 1) competent management and 2) high quality sufficiently resourced and efficiently running public healthcare system.

So don't even think that crying and jumping and other stupid performances are free. No, you simply buying different things: for some it's competent and effective management of the epidemics and a top notch modern public health system; and for you, it's hundred thousand compensations and million golden parachutes of the management with crying, jumping, pathetic propaganda shows and substandard results. To each, their own, what was ordered and paid for. Now where does the mother fit in this picture?

P.S. It seems to me that the fact itself that we accept outright absurdity like mask in the washroom, change room, in the park with no other people around seriously, as though it makes sense and with a straight face can tell something important not about Covid though, about us. It's we who are changed already if we accept it seriously and with a straight face as a worthy buy for our tax billions, in place of what could be had for it and what other people have already.

Edited by myata
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Well of course, you bought aiiii! the number of cases scare. And because you were witlessly buying it blindly, without looking, seeing and trying to understand what you're buying, you don't ever notice that your result is actually worse, twice and more. And this is because you've become accustomed to buying appearances, shows and performances, and someone learned how to get the real thing. And that's the difference. If crying, jumping and lecturing could produce real results you would have had the best.

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13 minutes ago, myata said:

Well of course, you bought aiiii! the number of cases scare. And because you were witlessly buying it blindly, without looking, seeing and trying to understand what you're buying, you don't ever notice that your result is actually worse, twice and more. And this is because you've become accustomed to buying appearances, shows and performances, and someone learned how to get the real thing. And that's the difference. If crying, jumping and lecturing could produce real results you would have had the best.

So you don't believe Norwegian numbers either.

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27 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So you don't believe Norwegian numbers either.

I do because they agree with the reality. No crying and jumping instead and in place of reality. No, crying and jumping won't buy you anything. You have to choose one:

Norway: cases per capita: 12 times higher; toll per capita: 4+ times lower; lockdowns: did not happen

Ontario: a great show of cases; toll: 10,000 vs. 2,400 (prorated to population); 3 total lockdowns.

The conclusion is clear: no matter how well you learned to sing and dance (around actually managing and delivering real results) it won't cut it in reality. You have to chose one.

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56 minutes ago, myata said:

I do because they agree with the reality. No crying and jumping instead and in place of reality. No, crying and jumping won't buy you anything. You have to choose one:

Norway: cases per capita: 12 times higher; toll per capita: 4+ times lower; lockdowns: did not happen

Ontario: a great show of cases; toll: 10,000 vs. 2,400 (prorated to population); 3 total lockdowns.

The conclusion is clear: no matter how well you learned to sing and dance (around actually managing and delivering real results) it won't cut it in reality. You have to chose one.

Cases have more than doubled since the middle of last month. Deaths usually trail cases by a month or more.

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39 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Cases have more than doubled since the middle of last month. Deaths usually trail cases by a month or more.

It's been almost two years of the pandemic. The toll is four times lower and no lockdowns. Try another dance?

Edited by myata
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