Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[Boges]

9 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Meanwhile, back in Canada....horror stories coming out of nursing homes:

Retirement Home COVID-19 deaths certainly aren't a uniquely Canadian problem. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/care-homes-across-globe-in-spotlight-over-covid-19-death-rates

I would say that it's somewhat encouraging that a large plurality, if not an outright majority of Canada's deaths have come in these environments.

It means the population at large are even less likely to die from this disease than the number indicate. 

It's no surprise you have so many outbreaks like this. There are dozens of at-risk people in close quarters with staff that are under paid and over-worked.

Now will we, as a society, learn from this? I'm not sure. It might get worse in the future as people live longer but are unable to save for their living arrangements at the end of their lives. 

 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

Retirement Home COVID-19 deaths certainly aren't a uniquely Canadian problem.

 

So what is Trudeau doing about it ?   Why did he let this happen ?   Why isn't he being held accountable ?    Blah...blah...blah....

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

So what is Trudeau doing about it ?   Why did he let this happen ?   Why isn't he being held accountable ?    Blah...blah...blah....

I know what you're getting at here. But it's not an apples to apples critique of Trump. 

Now JT going to the cottage on the weekend? He can go bleep himself for doing that. 

[bush_cheney2004]

Just now, Boges said:

I know what you're getting at here. But it's not an apples to apples critique of Trump. 

Now JT going to the cottage on the weekend? He can go bleep himself for doing that. 

 

I knew you would respond that way....shame on me for pointing out abandoned old people in Canadian nursing homes on Trudeau's watch in a thread about COVID19 and Justin Trudeau.

....guess it's back to Trump....some Canadians just loves them some Trump.

 

 

[Boges]

5 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

I knew you would respond that way....shame on me for pointing out abandoned old people in Canadian nursing homes on Trudeau's watch in a thread about COVID19 and Justin Trudeau.

....guess it's back to Trump....some Canadians just loves them some Trump.

You knew I would respond because that's where you were leading the question. 

I don't recall anyone blaming Trump for the initial Kirkland Lake retirement home outbreak. 

BTW the Health Minister did comment on what needs to be done to improve conditions in Retirement homes. 

Edited April 14, 2020 by Boges

[OftenWrong]

30 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

Meanwhile, back in Canada....horror stories coming out of nursing homes:

That is entirely a normal pattern for these respiratory virus outbreaks. These diseases blow through old age homes and vacate the beds. It is how many old folk die, by pneumonia.

The horror of those stories is the one where support staff abandoned a nursing home in Quebec, because they had an outbreak and the staff did not return. By the time authorities heard about it and entered, they found 31 people dead. Only 3 died of CV.

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Boges said:

You knew I would respond because that's where you were leading the question. 

I don't recall anyone blaming Trump for the initial Kirkland Lake retirement home outbreak. 

BTW the Health Minister did comment on what needs to be done to improve conditions in Retirement homes. 

 

It's still a fair question, Trump or no Trump.

Provinces are responsible, but feds have a role in funding and oversight.    Tam is federal, right ?

Why aren't Trudeau and his ministers getting grilled for this ?

[Boges]

Just now, OftenWrong said:

That is entirely a normal pattern for these respiratory virus outbreaks. These diseases blow through old age homes and vacate the beds. It is how many old folk die, by pneumonia.

The horror of those stories is the one where support staff abandoned a nursing home in Quebec, because they had an outbreak and the staff did not return. By the time authorities heard about it and entered, they found 31 people dead. Only 3 died of CV.

That was a case of neglect. And criminal charges should be filed. It really has little to do with C-19. 

Anyone who'd going to one of these homes is doing so to eventually die. It's not nice this think about, but it's what these homes are for ultimately. 

[bush_cheney2004]

2 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

...The horror of those stories is the one where support staff abandoned a nursing home in Quebec, because they had an outbreak and the staff did not return. By the time authorities heard about it and entered, they found 31 people dead. Only 3 died of CV.

 

Right....what would truly be called....how do some say here....a "shit show".

 

[Boges]

Just now, bush_cheney2004 said:

It's still a fair question, Trump or no Trump.

Provinces are responsible, but feds have a role in funding and oversight.    Tam is federal, right ?

Why aren't Trudeau and his ministers getting grilled for this ?

Member Jacee tried to pin this on DoFo in the Ontario thread. Also misguided and partisan. 

It's a problem that's only going to get worse as people are saving less and living longer. 

To pin it on Federal funding isn't helpful during a global pandemic. As noted in a previous post, these homes are ultimately where people go to die. 

BTW the Montreal case that was making news this week was a privately-owned luxury retirement home. 

[Shady]

44 minutes ago, marcus said:

Seriously?

If the words they share can't convince you and if the numbers can't convince you. What will?

You’re not making any sense.  How can two people doing the exact same things mean that one of them is doing a better job?  The numbers are different because there are many different variables that the United States has to deal with as opposed to Canada.  Much higher population, much higher population density, many more international hubs and airports, etc.  The situations aren’t exactly the same.  So drawing your kind of conclusions is incorrect.  Everything Canada has done, the United States has also done, but before Canada.  That’s an indisputable fact.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, Shady said:

 Much higher population, much higher population density, many more international hubs and airports, etc.  The situations aren’t exactly the same.  

That's why per capita numbers are relevant. 

Quote

So drawing your kind of conclusions is incorrect.  Everything Canada has done, the United States has also done, but before Canada.  That’s an indisputable fact.

Canadian governments regardless of political stripes are working in harmony and not fighting over petty issues. 

You see Trump gearing up for a fight with Coastal governors. 

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Member Jacee tried to pin this on DoFo in the Ontario thread. Also misguided and partisan. 

It's a problem that's only going to get worse as people are saving less and living longer. 

To pin it on Federal funding isn't helpful during a global pandemic. As noted in a previous post, these homes are ultimately where people go to die. 

BTW the Montreal case that was making news this week was a privately-owned luxury retirement home. 

 

OK...but only Trump would have the balls to stand up and say something like that.

The long term care homes were in very bad shape before the pandemic.

Trudeau probably doesn't even want to touch this with a 2 meter pole.

[Boges]

2 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

OK...but only Trump would have the balls to stand up and say something like that.

The long term care homes were in very bad shape before the pandemic.

Trudeau probably doesn't even want to touch this with a 2 meter pole.

Healthcare will always be "under funded" until the end of time. 

The debate about Retirement homes are more nuanced than just funding. We've found out that it's gotten spread faster because staff are forced to work at multiple homes. Who gets the blame for that? 

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Healthcare will always be "under funded" until the end of time. 

The debate about Retirement homes are more nuanced than just funding. We've found out that it's gotten spread faster because staff are forced to work at multiple homes. Who gets the blame for that? 

 

If one believes in the social welfare state and cradle to grave government programs, then ultimately government is to blame.

Everyone isn't going to line up early for the government's cheaper plan..."right to die".

Cue Edward G. Robinson in Soylent Green.

 

Edited April 14, 2020 by bush_cheney2004

[taxme]

17 hours ago, cannabis_ca said:

It's a proven fact that wearing a mask can help! Why don't our top politicians start wearing a mask at the public??  

Look at how things are under control in Korea and Singapore,  and look at how the top people setup a role model so everyone follows.  

I still see half of the people outside in gocery stores or simply walking outside downtown Toronto without wearing a mask.  

If you cannot buy one, here it is:  www.ppecanadasupplies.com   

If you're following Trudeau by not wearing one, it's really an issue we should be dealing with! 

Hey man? Have you looked up in the sky lately? If I am not mistaken it sure looks to me like it is starting to fall down. If I were you I would go find a cave somewhere now and protect yourself from pieces of falling sky hitting your head. Just a suggestion.  

[OftenWrong]

2 hours ago, Shady said:

The state of New York completely skews that graph.  Without New York’s failure, thanks to its horrible state and local government, the graph line would look just like the others.

Fair enough. Looking at the trend data I posted, it's not reasonable to point to that and say it's because the US didn't respond as quickly as others. Also the idea that there's poor compliance with quarantine in the US is doubtful, although I'm sure it varies from place to place. It's my understanding NYC is a ghost town and has been for a few weeks. I've seen some nasty headlines about how strict they are in some places about public assembly.

Hard to reconcile those kind of errors with this magnitude of a difference. Call it a hunch but it hints that something else is going on.

[taxme]

37 minutes ago, Boges said:

You knew I would respond because that's where you were leading the question. 

I don't recall anyone blaming Trump for the initial Kirkland Lake retirement home outbreak. 

BTW the Health Minister did comment on what needs to be done to improve conditions in Retirement homes. 

Aw, the insanity of it all. 

[taxme]

18 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Fair enough. Looking at the trend data I posted, it's not reasonable to point to that and say it's because the US didn't respond as quickly as others. Also the idea that there's poor compliance with quarantine in the US is doubtful, although I'm sure it varies from place to place. It's my understanding NYC is a ghost town and has been for a few weeks. I've seen some nasty headlines about how strict they are in some places about public assembly.

Hard to reconcile those kind of errors with this magnitude of a difference. Call it a hunch but it hints that something else is going on.

There really has to be something else going on here alright. And from what some are saying in the alternative news media websites, there appears to be more to all of this than meets the eye, and makes any sense. Question more.  

[Shady]

24 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Fair enough. Looking at the trend data I posted, it's not reasonable to point to that and say it's because the US didn't respond as quickly as others. Also the idea that there's poor compliance with quarantine in the US is doubtful, although I'm sure it varies from place to place. It's my understanding NYC is a ghost town and has been for a few weeks. I've seen some nasty headlines about how strict they are in some places about public assembly.

Hard to reconcile those kind of errors with this magnitude of a difference. Call it a hunch but it hints that something else is going on.

The US responded sooner than we did.  NYC is definitely a ghost town, but has been able to significantly reduce cases and hospitalization.

[Zeitgeist]

7 minutes ago, Shady said:

The US responded sooner than we did.  NYC is definitely a ghost town, but has been able to significantly reduce cases and hospitalization.

How so?  Apart from the travel ban on a couple of nations, point out which states closed their schools sooner and point out the clear federal messaging on health hygiene and self-isolation recommendations.  

[Shady]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

How so?  Apart from the travel ban on a couple of nations, point out which states closed their schools sooner and point out the clear federal messaging on health hygiene and self-isolation recommendations.  

Well, the certainly the travel bans on China and Europe were an important part of the response that came sooner than in Canada.  New York and California closed their schools at about the same time Ontario’s closed.  I don’t know about the other provinces.  Trump declared an emergency before Trudeau did.  Trump started on getting the private sector to start producing medical equipment before Trudeau did. It wasn’t until March 31st that Trudeau announced his plan to increase medical supplies.  In fact, I can’t think of a single thing that Canada has done in regards to covid before the United States.  

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

My God...what a crap show in the nursing homes.....Trudeau will lose some votes over this:

Why didn't Trudeau do a better job ?   

The same reason no one else is. No one is going to lose votes over this anywhere for the same reason too.

Prisons will probably be charnel houses in comparison. That said a super-max prison is probably the safest place on the planet right now.

I imagine anyone up on the space station is feeling pretty smug too.

 

 

[taxme]

47 minutes ago, Boges said:

Healthcare will always be "under funded" until the end of time. 

The debate about Retirement homes are more nuanced than just funding. We've found out that it's gotten spread faster because staff are forced to work at multiple homes. Who gets the blame for that? 

I would prefer to see all retirement homes being places where seniors can go if they wish so, and spend the rest of their days in peace, happiness and comfort. They served their working all their lives sentence and they have now crossed that retirement finish line. With the hundreds of billions of our tax dollars being blown on the rest of the world, and illegal refugees every year also, all those tax dollars wasted could go instead towards all retirement homes for the elderly with everything taken care of them by the government until their day of passing. 

This could happen if we could stop our spend crazy dear leaders from blowing our tax dollars on the rest of the world by the hundreds of billions every year. We the people keep electing fools who act like they have no clue as to how to handle our tax dollars one bit. If I can think up ideas like this, then why is it that politicians cannot? I think that I know why? It's because they do not really give all that much of a crap about Canada or Canadians. It's all about the rest if the freakin' world with these bunch of bozos. Foreign aid is nothing more than a waste of taxpayer's tax dollars. 

And now I heard that our dear Emperor leader is about to give away another $100 million of our tax dollars to other countries to help them fight this so called pandemic virus in their country's which has to be just another stupid and foolish thing that this buffoon of a PM is about to do with our tax dollars which should be staying here in Canada and help our own now unemployed Canadian people who need that money now. Instead now our dear elected leaders will have to borrow more money from the  wealthy banksters to help the people unemployed today thanks to these fools that run this gawd forsaken corrupt country. 

So, Boges? A good idea or a bad idea? Any comments? 

[taxme]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Trump has been a fool.  But let's not also forget that there's a lot of Americans who are straight-up as ignorant as Trump and won't follow social distancing guidelines.

Hey, Trudeau is even a bigger fool. And as a Canadian, I will not practice social engineering guidelines either. I find that most Canadians are ignorant with just about everything. Just call me one of those Canadian radicals. Lol.