Did Trudeau Fail His Country On Covid-19

[jacee]

48 minutes ago, Shady said:

Complete nonsense.  People and businesses are still waiting for relief, this is unacceptable!  Why won’t he act!

6-week delay for business bailout amid coronavirus pandemic may be too long

https://globalnews.ca/news/6767752/6-week-delay-for-business-bailout-amid-coronavirus-pandemic-may-be-too-long-biz-orgs/

 

That article is 10 days old, Shady. 

Things are happening fast. Support for individuals is already being distributed, and that had to be addressed first. 

Wage subsidies for business are being addressed now and will be retroactive to March 15.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html

That said, there is no doubt that some businesses won't survive. Even in a normal circumstances, about 7,000 businesses fail every year in Canada.

Many businesses are now doing business online/by phone, pickup or delivery. I bought shoes from a local shop that way. A bookstore is still operating that way.  Restaurants are still in business that way. 

I'm a person who hates shopping. I always like to call ahead to make sure I can get what I need, then pick it up quickly. I like to use small, local shops in my neighbourhood. I'm also retired and a homebody ... so my life isn't much different.  Lol 

Edited April 12, 2020 by jacee

[Shady]

8 minutes ago, jacee said:

That article is 10 days old, Shady. 

Things are happening fast. Support for individuals is already being distributed, and that had to be addressed first. 

Wage subsidies for business are being addressed now and will be retroactive to March 15.

https://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html

That said, there is no doubt that some businesses won't survive. Even in a normal circumstances, about 7,000 businesses fail every year in Canada.

Many businesses are now doing business online/by phone, pickup or delivery. I bought shoes from a local shop that way. A bookstore is still operating that way.  Restaurants are still in business that way. 

I'm a person who hates shopping. I always like to call ahead to make sure I can get what I need, then pick it up quickly. I like to use small, local shops in my neighbourhood. I'm also retired and a homebody ... so my life isn't much different.  Lol 

Is 10 days greater or less than 6 weeks?  Hmmmm.   Just applying the same standards to Trudeau as is applied to Trump.  Btw, why are some hospitals in Toronto running out of person protective equipment?  That’s gotta be Trudeau’s fault too right?  Since it’s Trumps fault when it happens in New York.  At least the United States had a strategic reserve.  Ours didn’t exist.  It got so bad that Trudeau is ordering supplies from the United States!

[jacee]

8 hours ago, Shady said:

Is 10 days greater or less than 6 weeks?  Hmmmm.   Just applying the same standards to Trudeau as is applied to Trump.  Btw, why are some hospitals in Toronto running out of person protective equipment?  That’s gotta be Trudeau’s fault too right?  Since it’s Trumps fault when it happens in New York.  At least the United States had a strategic reserve.  Ours didn’t exist.  It got so bad that Trudeau is ordering supplies from the United States!

Go and inform yourself better. 

Your post is so ill-informed it isn't worth even trying to respond to. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by jacee

[taxme]

On 4/4/2020 at 4:39 PM, Army Guy said:

I think the solution may come from the consumers themselves, forcing their governments to take some sort of punitive action against China, Australia's government is looking hard at doing just that, it so happened that some major Companies in Australia owned by the Chinese government instructed their Chinese employees to buy up massive amounts of masks ,gowns, other medical supplies to the tune of 1000 tones and flew it to China....It's got them in a little tizzy… anyway now they are changing the laws in regarding how much a foreign country can invest or purchase Businesses and resources  to zero, still in their parliamentary process.

During a news exposé they clearly showed their dairy industry , meaning farms, distribution, advertising, where almost 90 % Chinese owned and operated....along with many , many more business within their country.  they have been talks about seizing all these assets. This may be the wake up call everyone has been waiting for...China has been buying up everything in sight, from business and resources and western nations have allowed this to go unchecked for dozens of years...take a look at the oil sands and how much Chinese funding is involved.  They seem to have unlimited amount of funds, and nothing makes a western bend over faster , than suit cases full of money...until one day we wake up and find the Chinese flag hanging over Ottawa....man that would be a liberals' wet dream , OK maybe not every liberals dream, but certainly Justins. think French is hard to learn....try Mandarin. 

Anyways I think we can all agree a lot of things are going to change, once we come out of this nightmare, maybe it will take a wage review, along with a product pricing review, maybe it is time to tax the shit out of everything imported from China....Not that I'm a big trump fan but in NAFTA ,Mexico labor for veh manufactures was force to increase what they payed their workers.. maybe the same can happen in china...take some of their advantage away.... or maybe our entire market gets a reset, and government nationalize critical manufacture needs such as medical equipment, medicines, etc .  then tax the crap out of everything.... 

 

The thing to do about communist China is to not deal with that communist country at all until the communist government frees it's people from slavery. They treat their people as slaves for the communist deep state party elite. Why is any free country in the world, other than North Korea, dealing with a communist regime where we all should know by now what communism is all about and the hundreds of millions of innocent people who have been murdered by those communists. The worse ism ever created was communism. 

What about those two Canadians being held in jail on trumped up charges? This is a crime being committed against humanity and two innocent human beings. And that commie little dyktator of yours who has said that he admires China.  So did his old commie dad. China is nobody's friend. But they sure are the enemies of we the freedom loving people who believe that all men and women should be free. It's time for our dear leaders to say enough already. Give the people of China their freedoms now or face heavy heavy sanctions. Trump is the only leader in the world who has taken on China. And for that he gets to be called a racist by the lying and fake MSM. The only reason why communist China is still communist is because we the people allow them to stay communist and not to forget that some of our dear comrade leaders have not been complicit in trying to help keep communist China propped up. 

The communists in China are buying up the world. They practically own the country of Ethiopia now. They are getting Close to owning pretty much all of Canada thanks to our dear leaders who appear to not be too concerned about it. Maybe they are putting some payoffs from China put in the backs of their pants pockets. Hey, we never know, eh? After all, from what I have been noticing for many decades now is that most of our politicians could careless about Canada or Canadians. It would appear as though they are all there for themselves to get rich. Sadly, anyone who gets into politics and is honest will soon have to change their way of thinking  and go along with the flow or they may find themselves out the door. 

Because of what I have being seeing from our dear leaders is the reason why I will never trust or believe any of them with what they say or do. The Canadian MSM cannot be trusted to tell the truth either. They all pretty much know how to lie. It's a part of the job today. All said is just my opinion of course. 

[Zeitgeist]

15 minutes ago, Shady said:

Is 10 days greater or less than 6 weeks?  Hmmmm.   Just applying the same standards to Trudeau as is applied to Trump.  Btw, why are some hospitals in Toronto running out of person protective equipment?  That’s gotta be Trudeau’s fault too right?  Since it’s Trumps fault when it happens in New York.  At least the United States had a strategic reserve.  Ours didn’t exist.  It got so bad that Trudeau is ordering supplies from the United States!

The supplies flow in both directions.  Right now our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, thankfully, but it could easily go the other way and we should be helping places facing surges rather than competing for resources.  We’re working with partners and there’s no point in recriminations for water under the bridge.  Too much important work to do right now.  

[taxme]

8 minutes ago, jacee said:

Go and inform yourself better. 

Your post is so well-informed it isn't worth even trying to respond to. 

IMHO, you are not worth trying to respond to at any time. if you ever made any sense it would be a miracle. Just saying. 

[taxme]

1 minute ago, Zeitgeist said:

The supplies flow in both directions.  Right now our hospitals aren’t overwhelmed, thankfully, but it could easily go the other way and we should be helping places facing surges rather than competing for resources.  We’re working with partners and there’s no point in recriminations for water under the bridge.  Too much important work to do right now.  

The important thing that needs to be done is to end all of this foolishness going on. Let's all just get back to normal and start to socialize again. While this social distance or social engineering and no assembly of groups allowed to get together is not worth it when we may end up with more worse problems then what this so called virus could ever do. People die by the thousands every year from the seasonal flu bug. Hello out there? 

I can see many divorces coming from this. Many people taking up drinking more alcohol to try and pass the time away. People are being conditioned to keep their social distance from each other. Massive unemployment causing more depression and maybe even more suicides. People need to do things. They need to be able to socialize. They need their freedoms to do what they always were able to do without a bunch of politicians now telling them that they cannot do what they use to be able to do and taken for granted. 

The park that my wife and I like to walk in now has arrows on the ground pointing out that we must now all go in one direction. How stupid is that? As if that will stop someone from getting the virus from the person in front of us. Premiers closing down their borders to other Canadians. Closing down a boardwalk and a pier with a temporary fence being put up and from being used by we the people anymore and probably spending tens of thousands of tax dollars to put up that fence to keep people from walking on that boardwalk and pier. And then it will probably cost just as much to take the fences down. In the end of this nonsense I think that things will be worse than what they were before all this nonsense foolishness began. 

 

 

 

[Shady]

28 minutes ago, jacee said:

Go and inform yourself better. 

Your post is so well-informed it isn't worth even trying to respond to. 

But I provided you a link, businesses are having to wait 6 weeks.  I’m sorry that upsets you.

[Zeitgeist]

I think if we’re not back to work by mid to late May we’ll have a lot more to worry about than the virus.  Governments should be planning that return right now.  

[jacee]

7 hours ago, Shady said:

But I provided you a link, businesses are having to wait 6 weeks.  I’m sorry that upsets you.

Your link was dated April 2 so we're almost 2 weeks into that now. I understand that legislation is in preparation and will be expedited as will the application and distribution  process, as it has been for CERB payments - essentially on an honour system with necessary  corrections at tax time next year. I'd bet it will less than 4 more weeks before it's rolled out. 

Again, an unprecedented speed for such a program. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by jacee

[jacee]

7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think if we’re not back to work by mid to late May we’ll have a lot more to worry about than the virus.  Governments should be planning that return right now.  

That's highly unlikely. The curve isn't even beginning to flatten yet, just steady increases. That would be a recipe for another surge. 

[Moonlight Graham]

On 4/10/2020 at 7:46 PM, WestCanMan said:

I think the biggest thing to come from all of this will be changes to the subway systems and other mass transit and aviation systems worldwide. 

I think that masks are going to become far more popular than ever, there may be mandatory hand-sanitizing at entrance points to transit stations and airports, more focus on air filtration or exhaust systems within subway trains and planes, maybe UV lighting (which kills germs) instead of normal lighting, etc.

Airports already employ TIC cameras that monitor people's body temperature to detect people with fevers, I wouldn't be surprised to see that kind of thing creep into some subway systems worldwide as well. Right now there's nothing stopping someone with a fever from getting on the subway, I think that may be a thing of the past.

Up until now the world was very slob-friendly, I think the new normal will be more OCD-friendly. I may not be able to adapt.

I wonder what the increase in germophobia will be.

Honestly I don't expect many longterm changes.  There's no point in having these things in place if this virus is gone.  It's been 20 years since SARS, and that wasn't even like this.  This is a once-in-a-century thing.

[Zeitgeist]

13 minutes ago, jacee said:

That's highly unlikely. The curve isn't even beginning to flatten yet, just steady increases. That would be a recipe for another surge. 

We should be flattening within weeks and declining after that, which is as much as we can hope for.  If we don’t decline then much stricter measures are needed.  Otherwise it’s the worst of both worlds, a hemmoraging economy and continuing deaths from the virus.  Do we want to add in death from depression, anxiety, addiction, homicide?  What will life look like then?

Edited April 13, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[jacee]

13 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

We should be flattening within weeks and declining after that, which is as much as we can hope for.  If we don’t decline then much stricter measures are needed.  Otherwise it’s the worst of both worlds, a hemmoraging economy and continuing deaths from the virus.  Do we want to add in death from depression, anxiety, addiction, homicide?  What will life look like then?

It may start to flatten by May if we're lucky, but to loosen up restrictions then is a recipe for another increase in COVID19 cases and deaths. I don't think May is realistic.

Most large gatherings for July and August have already been cancelled. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by jacee

[Zeitgeist]

42 minutes ago, jacee said:

It may start to flatten by May if we're lucky, but to loosen up restrictions then is a recipe for another increase in COVID19 cases and deaths. I don't think May is realistic.

Most large gatherings for July and August have already been cancelled. 

That’s far too long and will dig a hole from which we may not emerge in our lifetimes.  How many 100’s of extra billions are borrowed and how much deprivation will people have to endure?  Trudeau is wrong on this.  China and South Korea progressed more quickly than what you propose.  Even the US wants to open up sooner than that and their situation is quite a bit worse.  

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s far too long and will dig a hole from which we may not emerge in our lifetimes.

Experts say its no where near enough without the means to either test everyone on an ongoing basis or until we have a vaccine or both

Next May is more like it.  China welded people's doors shut and South Koreans are years ahead of us in terms of being able to trust the surveillance and tracing they use to contain the virus.

Edited April 13, 2020 by eyeball

[bush_cheney2004]

4 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s far too long and will dig a hole from which we may not emerge in our lifetimes.  How many 100’s of extra billions are borrowed and how much deprivation will people have to endure?  Trudeau is wrong on this.  China and South Korea progressed more quickly than what you propose.  Even the US wants to open up sooner than that and their situation is quite a bit worse.  

 

Trudeau really doesn't have any choice right now until planning and new normal health safety protocols are developed and implemented with widespread compliance and testing.   No politician wants to sacrifice nursing home residents and health care workers on The National, among others.  Rising debt is a given for now, just have to get over that.  

Canada is doing better than the US for now partly because of population density and also the things provinces are doing (shutdown), but does that remain true if people go back to work and school ?   The clock on this pandemic will run well into the summer.     Expect more local and regional opening up depending on case loads instead of a national approach.   Some businesses will be able to open up before others.

 

[Zeitgeist]

34 minutes ago, bush_cheney2004 said:

 

Trudeau really doesn't have any choice right now until planning and new normal health safety protocols are developed and implemented with widespread compliance and testing.   No politician wants to sacrifice nursing home residents and health care workers on The National, among others.  Rising debt is a given for now, just have to get over that.  

Canada is doing better than the US for now partly because of population density and also the things provinces are doing (shutdown), but does that remain true if people go back to work and school ?   The clock on this pandemic will run well into the summer.     Expect more local and regional opening up depending on case loads instead of a national approach.   Some businesses will be able to open up before others.

 

Yes there’s a lot of different approaches being discussed.  Immunity testing seems to hold promise for getting a chunk of the workforce back at it almost unconditionally, if these people seem unable to develop symptoms or carry the virus.  There’s talk of new apps for contact tracing, as well as returning certain sectors first.  I like the idea of smaller groupings, basically returning people to work every other day.  Perhaps testing is a precondition for this.  It will be a careful, gradual approach that maintains a certain amount of public hygiene.  And yes, we need to see a big decline in numbers, but even if we got to zero, that would likely be fleeting.

I think the main thing at that point is protecting the vulnerable and keeping the infection rate at a level that the health care system can handle.  Keeping much of the economy shut for months doesn’t make sense once the costs to public health of the shutdown exceed the health risks of the virus, including to future generations.

Edited April 13, 2020 by Zeitgeist

[bush_cheney2004]

5 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I think the main thing at that point is protecting the vulnerable and keeping the infection rate at a level that the health care system can handle.  Keeping much of the economy shut for months doesn’t make sense once the costs to public health of the shutdown exceed the health risks of the virus, including to future generations.

 

Many people are running the entire gamut of fear, frustration, anger, and depression to the point of not being ready to engage in work and commerce anyway, even if protocols are in place.   Faith in government for this pandemic has been rattled, as will be any decision to resume the "new normal".  I was laughing today at the golfers who were whining about their greens being shut down for COVID19,  because we got a heavy snow that makes the point moot, but admit that each small step back is probably important no matter how frivolous.  

 

[marcus]

On 4/11/2020 at 7:50 AM, Argus said:

I don't believe so. What I said was that Trump banning flights helped, but the good it did was way offset by the complete shambles of their screening and testing and tracing.

Trudeau not banning flights hurt, but was offset by the provinces screening and testing and tracing.

I agree. The Canadian government moved too slowly. WHO, probably under political pressure from China, moved slowly in their warnings. The Trudeau government's mistake was to not take the lead and make their own decision based on what was happening. In hindsight, they should have closed the borders, especially to China, sooner, like a few other countries did. Instead, Canada elected to listen to WHO's recommendations. This shows weakness.

On 4/11/2020 at 7:50 AM, Argus said:

I can't for the life of me think of anything the federal government has really done to fight the virus up until they apparently woke up in mid March and started ordering supplies and closed the border. Even now their screening at the borders is painfully inadequate and almost something done for show.

Yes, they should have moved sooner. I would say, however, since then, the government has looked better. I don't think they should get a pass for the mistakes they've made, but at the same time, I believe they've taken the right steps since then. Trudeau has looked better and has managed to say the right things. It's not difficult to notice this with the shit show down south.

On 4/11/2020 at 7:50 AM, Argus said:

Common sense says otherwise. Compare us to Australia. They have 54 deaths and their infection rate has been going down for two weeks. They closed the border early.

Not quite.

Canada closed its borders (except to the U.S.) on March 20th.

Australia closed its borders (with a few exceptions) on March 24th.

[marcus]

11 hours ago, taxme said:

The important thing that needs to be done is to end all of this foolishness going on. Let's all just get back to normal and start to socialize again. While this social distance or social engineering and no assembly of groups allowed to get together is not worth it when we may end up with more worse problems then what this so called virus could ever do. People die by the thousands every year from the seasonal flu bug. Hello out there? 

I can see many divorces coming from this. Many people taking up drinking more alcohol to try and pass the time away. People are being conditioned to keep their social distance from each other. Massive unemployment causing more depression and maybe even more suicides. People need to do things. They need to be able to socialize. They need their freedoms to do what they always were able to do without a bunch of politicians now telling them that they cannot do what they use to be able to do and taken for granted. 

The park that my wife and I like to walk in now has arrows on the ground pointing out that we must now all go in one direction. How stupid is that? As if that will stop someone from getting the virus from the person in front of us. Premiers closing down their borders to other Canadians. Closing down a boardwalk and a pier with a temporary fence being put up and from being used by we the people anymore and probably spending tens of thousands of tax dollars to put up that fence to keep people from walking on that boardwalk and pier. And then it will probably cost just as much to take the fences down. In the end of this nonsense I think that things will be worse than what they were before all this nonsense foolishness began. 

 

 

 

Sweden has decided to not shut things down. Let's see how they fair.

 

[Boges]

8 hours ago, jacee said:

That's highly unlikely. The curve isn't even beginning to flatten yet, just steady increases. That would be a recipe for another surge. 

It actually is flattening. The increases aren't jumping  (similar numbers each day) and hospital admissions aren't increasing exponentially like they were earlier. Which is the whole point of all this. 

And though young people are getting and dying from this, the vast majority that are dying are the elderly. 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Boges

[Argus]

8 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I wonder what the increase in germophobia will be.

Honestly I don't expect many longterm changes.  There's no point in having these things in place if this virus is gone.  It's been 20 years since SARS, and that wasn't even like this.  This is a once-in-a-century thing.

Maybe I'm paranoid, but all the damage that's being done to countries because of this virus reminds me of the saying that bioweapons are the poor man's nukes. And that's been brought to the unmistakable attention of the whole world. ISIS has already praised the virus as a gift from Allah. Which means if you're angry at a country, or a terrorist group, all you need to do is send someone with this virus, perhaps young and asymptomatic, into other countries and have them walk around very public areas where he can infect lots of people.  Suddenly, weeks later, tons of cases start popping up which can't be traced. Who's to say who did it? Or even if it was deliberate? Maybe China would like to see more virus cases in the West. Or perhaps Russia would, or Iran? Certainly North Korea wouldn't mind. And it's not like it would be difficult to do. Wait until a country thinks they've got things under control, then send a few carriers over.

 

[Zeitgeist]

5 hours ago, marcus said:

Sweden has decided to not shut things down. Let's see how they fair.

 

So far Sweden’s numbers haven’t exploded and they’re salvaging their economy.  Denmark was extra careful and is now opening up carefully.  It’s easier to do this in a smaller country.  I think we can do it, but it won’t happen the same way everywhere in the country.  I think we should shoot for mid-May.  

[Boges]

Trudeau was in the House this weekend. 

People gonna still use the "hiding under his blankie" rhetoric?