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mass formation psychosis is a helluva drug Weimar Germany on the civilizational level the unvaccinated are the new Jews see CITIZEN_2015 for a prime example of these crazed sheep

At the request of President Nixon. President Nixon knew Prime Minister Trudeau would be the most approriate ally to open up relations with Mao's China. Everybody with a brain views what passes for communism is evil. It is also a failure and that is why there are no communist governments any more. China is a despotic dictatorship. If it needs to be labled, it is a cleptocracy. Where would we be if we did not have the USSR as an ally in the Second World War? We probably would have lost. There is no room for sentiment in foreign relations. President Carter proved that. He made human rights a cornerstone of his foreign policy and really screwed things up. Don't get me wrong. I believe President Carter is a great man and his roll in the chalk River nuclear event showed extraordinary courage.

1. There's any number of personal choices that result in disproportionally higher use of public health resources. Examples: smoking; obesity; overdose. This was never a problem before. As long as a very high fraction of resources is not consumed by a choice group, it cannot be a valid reason to impose the choice. Proportionality is not an argument. 2. In highly dangerous and highly infectious epidemics a vaccine can be imposed from public health considerations (consider plague, ebola or similar). This is not the case. The disease is not highly dangerous except for specific groups, and the treatments do not prevent infection and spread so this argument does not apply either. 3. Public health system in Canada is not free. It is paid for by the citizens who make their choices. If care can be denied based on personal choices, then citizens should have an option to not contribute to the system and seek care elsewhere. It is not owned by bureaucrats distributing care as they see fit but by the citizens who are paying for it. At this time there's no rational, objective arguments for mandatory, forced and otherwise coerced vaccinations. Please do not repeat what has already been proven wrong.

When we are in a crisis over numbers as low as these, ratios are not important. A caseload of 225 people in total. The system should be able to accommodate that. If it can’t, there’s something truly screwed up with the system. Machiavellian leadership has duped you people into being at each other’s throats. Carry on

No that is a fallacy argumentum ad verecundiam, appeals to authority can only be used if we agree the authority has sufficient data to make a conclusion. I am stating there has not be sufficient data presented to make that conclusion. The pushback against asking for data is astounding. How is anyone supposed to determine the risk factor for themselves with out the data?

1. That could very well be. I would frame it as I place faith on them to take care of others around me. I'm personally fine. 2. That's not really new at all. What's new, to me, is the depths to which people fall into lazy thinking to support their stubborn opinions. The 'nerve' is making it seem like I love Justin Trudeau, which is pretty simplistic. 3. Because they aren't the most important person in the country and sometimes you can't get what you want ? 4. Blah blah blah... I have to follow laws I don't like too... what makes you the Town Crier of Freedom ? I take off your pointy Crier hat and shit on it...

My, my, you are really naive to say the least about Communist China and Canada. Read a few books on the subject, like Claws of the Panda, Hidden Hand, Wake Up America: Unrestricted Warfare, and China Virus to name a few. Canada has 1.8 million people of Chinese descent and China considers much of it's diaspora as required to be faithful to China (and the CCP). The have been known to exercise influence through relatives in China as well. But that is just the tip of the iceberg. There reach in Canada (and other western countries) extends into politics, academia, business, culture and other things. To say they are not a Communist country any more is ridiculous. They certainly are. They allow private capitalism but only within the tight control of the Communist party. They are still a totalitarian state which does not recognize human rights. Reportedly China has about one million Uighurs in concentration camps (for re-education). Countless people have been sent to prison for their beliefs or religion. People can be arbitrarily arrested and imprisoned. There is no justice system as we know it in the west.

I'm in my 70s and resent that. Thanks for your concern. The more you people talk, the deeper you dig yourselves in the bull.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8492260/annual-surtax-homes-housing-inequality-report/ Homes over $1M will be taxed now "to help stall price increases" because the gov't says that they want to make home ownership easier for new/young Canadians. This is just a bullshit tax which will be a drain on the middle class, but will only cost Trudeau's wealthy buddies a pittance. Almost every single home in BC from West Vancouver to Abbotsford will be affected by this tax, but investors, who tie up affordable housing which young families could be purchasing, won't pay a single cent. If the gov't really wants to make home ownership a possibility then they need to put a premium on second, third, fourth, fifth dwelling units, etc. The way that this tax is set up, I can have two $900K condos, side by side, and 600 condos all across the country worth $500K each, and the new tax won't cost me a single penny, ever. I'd have over $300M in real estate, I'd be earning rent from 600 working families, and I could use my income from those 600 homes to buy several new condos every month, which just puts upward pressure on the cost of those homes. Trudeau's idiot fanbase will be sucked in by this. All of his welfare toadies will lap it up, thinking that it's a legitimate tax to help them out, in reality it doesn't do a thing for entry-level buyers.

I have the impression Jagmeet is pushing Trudeau even farther to the left but he certainly doesn't have to push hard. There isn't much to distinguish between the Libs and NDP now.

100% correct. I have argued from the beginning that the binary they have imposed (vaccinated versus unvaxxed) is only part of the story. However they have had the numbers to justify their position up till now. Not sure about other provinces but Alberta posted the number of people with cases, hospitalization, ICU and Deaths based on pre-exisiting conditions. As you can see, this is the true binary

So stupid to think that the 20-30 percent of hospitalizations that are unvaccinated people are responsible for overloading our healthcare system. First off, our system isn’t overloaded, not even close. We still have 70-80% of our critical car beds available in Ontario. Hardly a crisis. Also, what makes you so certain that those unvaccinated people wouldn’t be in the ICU if they were vaccinated? I’m sure some of them would be. So do the math. Even if we conservatively say that a third of our ICU cases are unvaccinated people, with so much spare capacity in the system, it’s ridiculous to make them scapegoats. The pandemic is over and both the government and the CBC need to revise their official narratives. If not and restrictions continue, Canada can no longer call itself a highly developed country, because no one wants to live in a land of deprivation. I’ll be keeping my place in Florida and buying private healthcare when I’m down there. I have British citizenship which will also give the rest of my family access to British citizenship. I’m keeping a foot out the door of Canada now, as Britain hasn’t closed its schools and restaurants, and testing requirements are being dropped for travellers. Students and staff don’t wear masks. They’re exiting the pandemic. If Canada can’t find a way out of restrictions soon, those who can leave, will.

Are you ok if those hospitals are filled with vaccinated Covid patients?

Probably facetiously when I wrote that to be honest. But with two or three times the number of hospitals we should have the capacity to maintain vaxxed and unvaxxed wards.

You are incorrect. There are 300,000 Canadians living in Hong Kong. They are living there for the same reasons there are over one million Canadians living in the United States, 90,000 Canadians living in France and 87,000 Canadians living in the United Kingdom. I am mystified at how you conclude I am a Chinese dupe or a communist. Please elaborate. Why are you suddenly anti-China now, when they have been so-called "communist" since 1949? Canada and the USA have dealings with many despotic nations. We have had friendly relations with China in the past that began at the urging of President Nixon. It was only after the election of Prime Minister Trudeau that relations soured.

Exactly, this is quite concerning, divide and conquer, create hate towards those that are not responsible, thus shielding those that are responsible.

Why are you always posting threads made to divide the population and never calling out government officials? Why are you always punching down?

So, all these people in Canada of Chinese descent are like the thousands of Japanese spies in BC in 1941? Canadians of Chinese descent have been in this country since before confederation. Are you suspicious of the people of Ukranian descent? Am I a spy for Mi6 because my ancestors came from England via the 13 colonies in the 1600's? Or does that make me a yankee spy? I never understated the brutality of President Xi's administration. Chinese governments have been brutal for thousands of years. Mao Tse Tung was an anomaly, in that he took the application of tyranny to a level that only Stalin could rival. American propoganda and influence is far stronger and insidious that Chinese. This morning, I happened to be looking at an online brochure on the Toyota Corolla and all the specs were in American. On the radio we always hear about "miles" and "pounds." Canada has been metric for 50 years. Much of the long term diaspora left China to get away from the bastards. I am not niave about China. The University where I was employed logged thousands of computer probes a day from the Chinese army. International students from China were always supervized by a political officer. Yet, on the night martial law was declared before the Tienanmen massacre, I was in the Engineering Grad Student lounge with about twenty Chinese students. It was like being in Bejing. They knew some of the activists leading the demonstrations and there was absolutely no sense of fealty to the Government in China in that group on that night. China has not been an imperial power in centuries. Not only were they conquered by Japan in the 1930's but they also got beaten up by tiny Viet Nam. Their only success in recent memory was the conquest of Tibet. Whereas the US has invaded how many countries in the last 250 years? They have invaded Canada three times and we are their best ally. China does not have the logistical capability to invade Canada. Even if they could ship a landing force across the Pacific without being detected, there are only two ports where they could land, Vancouver and PR. From there, it is steep mountain passes. It is a no go. The modern alternative to invasion is to buy us. Since we are already owned by the US, I doubt the Americans would be willing to sell us to the so-called communists. Every nation benifits from the influences of other cultures. Without the Moores in Spain, the rest of Europe would continue to dwell in the dark ages. Without the influence of the British, India wouldn't have become the worlds largest democracy as soon as it did. Without the influence of the United States, Japan and the European Union would not have the progressive governments they have today. (Thanks to Douglas MacArthur and George Marshall.) The world can benefit from warm relations with China but China, the USA and Russia are in a temporary, but toxic period of nationalism. The elephant in the room is the fact that any war between these powers will be nuclear and if you are looking for a book to read, I recommend On the Beach, by Nevil Shute.

Race and ethnicity is not a choice, you are born with it and it can't be changed. Vaccination is. That said, I doubt mandatory vaccination is constitutional but governments and business can make life difficult for the unvaccinated.

So this is how it ends: More and more people have to start mocking the restrictions and mandates as futile draconian attempts to control a virus that is now endemic. End the mandates for testing, screening, masking, and vaccination. Promote protections such as vaccination and anti-viral treatments. Treat serious illness of all kinds in hospitals, which was always their mandate (not endlessly testing every close contact of a Covid case, whether or not that person has mild, serious, or no symptoms at all). Most people have gotten or will get Omicron and be over it in a week. Covid is permanently part of our reality. It’s time to return to normal, but it requires a new attitude and social outlook on Covid. Influencers and media have to get on board as well. Eventually public opinion should force government to follow suit.

Thanks for the comment, I was starting to wonder if maybe I was not clear in my questions. The funny thing is, the data I am asking for probably helps the OP argument.

You’re absolutely right. In Australia the government is resorting to fascist oppression against the unvaccinated. They will no longer be able to leave their homes except for three reasons. Even exercise will be considered non-essential for them. This may not yet appear as drastic as the Holocaust, but the motives and tactics are similar. Take away people’s rights in the name of purity, this time health purity rather than racial purity. It is evil. I’m not sure if our mandatory QR codes are the “mark of the devil”, but I do know that they are being used as a way of ensuring that only those who participate in the vaccination program can enjoy a semblance of pre-pandemic freedom It’s sick I’ve played ball so far I’ve got my booster appointment this month, but what else will government coerce me to do in order to enjoy basic freedoms? Where is our discretion of choice, the ability to say that this or that remedy is right or wrong for us? Why won’t Health Canada approve over the counter anti-viral pills? Is this because our government has made procurement commitments that we’re now obligated to respect? How much longer will I have to pay hundreds of dollars for tests that are hard to get completed on time in order to enter my own country? How much longer will I have to show proof of vaccination on top of all this in order to be allowed to travel and enjoy basic freedoms? Where does this end? Is this really serving us? Minister Duclos is a creepy dude. End all restrictions immediately and get these totalitarians out of office. America, please shine your light of liberty on Canada. Free the slaves.

Ya perhaps.

I was hoping you were correct but then you hear this stupid shit. https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/health-minister-believes-mandatory-vaccinations-coming-to-canada?r Looks like Trudeau's Health Minister wants mandatory vaccinations. It ultimately comes down to the provinces but again, the feds can easily implement other coercive tactics (similar to carbon taxes) that will make the provinces do what they want. To all you folks out there that said, its still our choice.....maybe not??? Interestingly enough, this doucebag's comments come at a time where he is starting to lose the numbers. Look at Ontario today, 71% of hospitalizations are fully vaxxed. Even ICU is steadily increasing as it hit 43% fully vaxxed (this number used to be like 10%). Alberta's vaxxed hospital population has flipped where they are now the majority after months of it being largely unvaxxed people. The most glaring mistake buddy says is: As per Quebec's own provincial website, over the last 28 days only 34% of hospitalizations have been unvaccinated. And this number (if like Ontario will continue to decrease). Its obvious to me that these guys know their vaccine strategy failed. They need continual boosters to get the numbers they need for success and that's why they are doubling down. I can only hope that people wise up to this bullshit before it goes too far.

The reality is, that if some super volcano should finally blow its top and throw tons and tons of ash into the atmosphere and block the sun, we will again be in the middle of another iceage and perhaps years without summers. The problem I see is that most of the so called "experts do not believe that the FLOOD of NOAH was a reality. They do not wish to even consider that the environment has been changing for perhaps 10,000 years and not millions and billions. And so when there are any changes, it is assumed that it must be OUR fault. When the asteroid WORMWOOD finally hits the earth, there will be destroyed 1/3 of everything on this planet. YES, I firmly believe Christians need to be good stewards and recycle and be careful not to throw trash all over; however, as a Christian I realize that ultimately the LORD is in control and not me nor any government of any merit.

Why can't we see the data? Why can't I ask for the data? Why is asking for data considered a threat or a conspiracy theory? "You say you are not qualified to draw conclusions from raw data" - Never said that, I am qualified to draw conclusion from raw data, part of my position is doing just that. Never the less, anyone should be able to view the data irrelevant of their qualifications. "Why do they have to prove they are being up front about this. " - In science we trust the data (assuming no tampering), but not an expert assuming a conclusion without providing data. Never assume a conclusion without verifying the data first, I am doing my due diligence.

I don't. But I am a scientist, and I would rather see data indicating the conclusion instead of assuming the conclusion. "Why do you think there is some conspiracy? " Please cite where I state or make this claim? Please read this at least: Why am I asking these questions? - If the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to the comorbidities, than COVID is not a concern for the general public. But if the vast majority of hospitalization cases are due to COVID, then there is higher concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the 70+ age group, there is less of a concern. If the hospitalization cases are in the age of 40 or less, than there is greater concern. "Do you think that if they listed the co-morbidity of every patient and when they were put in ICU you are competent to determine what was what?" - I dont need to, I purely want to understand the risk to general public,.

My life isn’t worth anymore than somebody else’s. But I’m not asking anyone to destroy their lives so that I can feel safer. The average age of a covid death in Ontario is 83. That’s older than life expectancy.

Who is filling up the most hospital beds CITIZEN_2015? There is 1433 vaccinated in hospital beds There is 560 unvaccinated in hospital beds Vaccinated patients take 2.5 x more hospital beds than unvaccinated. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#vaccine-status-data Your entire argument hinges on beds taken, with this idea than we should look to vaccine status as a point to blame. I would rather look to the people in charge, who get paid and who have responsibility to maintain the hospital.

You’re also flipping between percentages and raw numbers when it suits you. The raw numbers indicate that no, unvaccinated people aren’t taking up all the hospital beds. They’re evenly split.

They say that you really shouldn't go to the test unless you really believe you've got the virus. That's because on one hand we should avoid congesting the system from unnecessary testing, it is crowded enough already, but on the other hand there are those other people there many of whom really got the virus so in the worst case you didn't have the virus when you went to the test but you've got it when get get back from the test.

I am fully vaccinated with a booster. It's you that made the selfish comment that it's not about trying to prevent people in their 70s or 80s from dying. What make you so special that your life is worth more than people in their 70s or 80s?

Read my post above this.

1. I get your point, 15 % of the unvaccinated population makes up 25 % of hospitalizations and 49 % of ICU patients. But the argument made by CITIZEN_2015 was about who is filling up hospital beds, by number its vaccinated at a rate of 2.5x. 2. Please cite where I state or make this claim? If not please correct this comment. 3. "you are just another conspiracy nut job." Why the Ad Hominem attack Aristides? I am asking questions, showing data right from the government.

You should get vaccinated then if you’re concerned. Stop asking other people to destroy their lives, especially children to make you feel safe. It’s as selfish as it gets.

"Hours of blood-boiling lies and violence filled rhetoric..." . Is that the trigger behind the much larger and far more numerous Antifa/BLM riots? Specifically, who got Antifa/BLM all riled up?

Teenage Busker, YouTube sensation, Allie Sherlock doing what she does on the streets of Dublin:

This is a wild oversimplification of the situation. First of all, why would you assume that some kind of privatization would make any difference to the frequency or severity of "medical mistakes"?? Secondly: people who do things make mistakes. All day, every day, every profession, trade and category of labour, people make mistakes. Finally: we don't have to wonder how privatized medicine works, we can just look straight South and see that such a system costs more that twice as much $$$$ as what we have and delivers outcomes far down the scale from what we get. You need to separate out what function is what function, who can best do those functions and finally what factors keep them from working as intended and remove those "problem" components. To begin with: medical doctors do NOT deliver much in the line of "health care", they mostly provide "sick care". to understand this: as with anything else, follow the gold. There is very little money in medicine until someone gets sick or injured. The drug business is a perfect example of how and why sick care is done the we it is - it is how the big bux flow into the picture. To my mind: the best way to make GPs switch from pill pushers for Big Pharma into health care providers is assign each one "X" patients and pay them for the ones who are healthy and alive. This was once done in China (so I was told when we worked out of a medical university campus in Guangzhou). What needs to be publicly funded is just that: HEALTH care. Moving some of the resources from sick care to health care would be critical to delivery. What needs to be 100% publicly funded is the insurance side (funding) as it more-or-less is now in Canada. What can be (and to some extent already is here) privately owned is service delivery. BUT: look at what happens in the US when you do that with Big Legal, Big Insurance and Big Pharma having carte blanche to exploit the system. Most of US sick care costs are based on the insurance component of the LLL (Legal Liability Lottery). One of the very few economic advantages we have in Canadian business over our Southern competing neighbours is our sick care system. It is far from perfect, but it allows business a free hand to be business instead of wasting billions (here) and TRILLIONS (in the US) on an army of blood sucking lawyers, insurers, administrators, risk managers, etc. We just need to tweek our delivery schemes to be more cost and medically effective. The idea that you can wave a magic wand and take the risk out of making split second decisions in care delivery of people in highly compromised and critical situations is ludicrous.