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Trump is not pro-China or pro-Russia. America has more allies than either China or Russia combined, by several orders of magnitude. Trump letting America's allies know before he does something would have saved no one. The only one responsible for shooting down a plane full of innocents, is Iran.

I don't care if I spelled his name wrong. Same shit - different pile. You know exactly who I was talking about. The main point is that they used Russian missiles and fired on the plane themselves. If they weren't shithole central then the Americans wouldn't even be involved with them. People who act like Trump suddenly started this or escalated it irrationally are as dumb as the ones who think that Trump started the feud with NoKo. The middle east has been a shithole for four thousand years plus. The Persians were the biggest slavers in the world for 2,000+ years and the muslims took over 1,400 years ago and didn't miss a beat.

I feel the same, plus worth noting that the Iranian Canadians lost were almost all academics and professionals. HUGE loss to Canada, but more than that, THESE are the people who could return to Iran once the Mullah's are sent packing to put the country back together again. I have a very good friend who is Iranian, and her whole generation plus all but her Mother from that generation are expatriots. For that reason (she could easily have been on that flight, or any of her cousins) I was really touched by this disaster. BUT: I am even more disturbed that the ambulance chasers could even think of trying to make their blood money from such a tragedy.

I am just saddened by the lost lives of so many people on that airline. They were there to visit families and friends for Christmas and were caught in this cross fire....

To be honest, I don't even know if there's a difference between Khomeini and Khamenei. Old dude, long beard, black robe & turban, hates America, oppressive religious zealot who jails/kills dissidents, wants nukes, a-hole.... Is there a noticeable difference between the two aside from what they eat for breakfast lol?

Because the enemy of my enemy is a friend? The left instantly falls in love with anyone that hates Trump. They defend huge payments to Iran and Noko, they portray Soleimani as a grassroots hero, they downplay the deaths of Americans, and when Khomeini kills Canadians these god-damned morons blame Trump. “He never should have killed Soleimani! He should have just let him keep killing Americans!” lol. If you wrote a fictional novel about people this stupid no one would believe it, but there are at least a million people that dumb. That’s why they say truth is stranger than fiction.

This post title is a declarative statement and it is an outright lie, and such it can't be allowed to stand in this forum or Maple Leaf Web is a total farce.

Maybe you should go ask the liberals if they really care?

The Israelis proved with Mole Cricket 19 that one can have all the modern fighters and SAM systems in the world...but if one doesn't train their crews, disaster results. Something like 90 shot down with no losses...and all the SAM sites destroyed.

Yep.....even birds have sufficient Doppler to meet the fire control software gates.

Right....tracking and fire control radars have much higher frequencies and pulse repetition rates for better target resolution. This SAM also has optical guidance. When the U.S. Navy first got close-in missile defense systems like Vulcan Phalanx CIWS, we would rarely leave it in automated mode because it would shoot at nearly anything detected, including seagulls. Commanders have to follow careful protocols now, especially after what happened to USS Stark in 1986, which contributed to USS Vincennes downing an Iranian airliner two years later in 1988.

what is needed to save the economy is to do useful, productive work. No amount if immigration will change or effect that, but it WILL add to our debt if we don't get smart and only bring in useful, educated, skilled and well financed immigrants. Haitian drug dealers and Somali terrorists don't fit that profile very well.

Trump had more voter support than your current "dictator". And he has to win another election just like other presidents. Some deadbeat "allies" already said "f*ck you" to America...so live with it. ...or find some other nation to hide behind.

Then stop depending on the Americans to protect the "post WW2 order". Try your luck with China.

Good question....Whether to put the blame on the operator is to exonerate the higher level of command remains moot.... Despite the clean up the regime could not fool the experts who visited the site of the crash and the black box which is why they had to admit the truth about shooting down the commercial airplane

A few short vids to show exactly how the SA-15 Tor works. It's the likely candidate by accounts...though several other SAM systems use the same method of taking down an aircraft...the SA-11 Buk being another prime candidate. But for now...let's say it's the SA-15. As one can clearly see...very complex machines. One would need a LOT of training to become proficient at operating such a machine...safely.

They were lying so much before the admission that nothing they say can be trusted w/o a full independent investigation...and even then...they've already cleaned-up all the evidence. What will there be now to find? And what of the SAM operators? Are they currently having their tongues removed in Evin Prison? Or are they still at their posts and taking interviews?

Meh...both make for fine target shooting.

Once you've seen one bearded mullah ranting from the pulpit...you've seen them all.

Cannuck I am all ears for coherent reasons as to what criteria should be used to determinate Canada's financial capacity to absorb refugees. Do you have any? Everyone who is quick to say we can't afford or should take in refugees because of our debts never has any criteria or number or any basis for how they determined our deficit prevents taking in ANY refugees or in the alternative a specific number of refugees. Also Cannuck if a refugee would be privately sponsored the Canadian government does not pay for them. This is why I have always argued private sponsored refugees were not and are not the issue. Stephen Harper knew that when he made sure the Syrian refugees he brought in were privately sponsored. My mother privately sponsored a refugee from Uganda and another from Ukraine, because she herself was a refugee. She was about to adopt a refugee child from Vietnam when she got sick and died. So yah I have a bias on this topic. I openly admit mine-how about all the people who have a bias against refugees? Do they hear me saying take in unlimited amounts...don't screen them...no. All I ask is someone discuss this topic with some sort of objective basis for their positions. I concede we need to control and administer whatever immigration programs and refugee programs we have. I have never argued otherwise. However when I hear people make blanket statements tatamount to denying any or all immigrants or refugees or inferring refugees or immigrants don't want to be good Canadians or contribute to Canada what would you like me to say-my families who came here to escape bad things in other countries should have been deported along with the other millions of immigrants who came here from all over and helped build this country and cherish it? What is it once someone is born here the first thing they feel they can do is look down on someone who wasn't? Why? What is it about being born in Canada that some of you think it makes you entitled to say others are less than you? Please tell me because beneath the comments is a thinly layered rejection of people without giving any reason other than generalized ambiguous subjective assumptions with no links to anything objective. Provide the stats that show privately sponsored refugees drain Canada. Please I want to know. Show me anyone. I am telling you do I the son of a refugee sound ungrateful? You all think I have just sucked this country dry? My father was a WW2 veteran and served in the Armed Forces for 20 years? Is he not a Canadian because his parents were immigrants to this country? Are you saying my grandparents did not contribute to the country that took them in? Please tell me. I want to know..how far do any of these assumptions about immigrants or refugees go before some of you ask could your assumptions not necessarily be accurate or justify blanket denials and shut downs of programs? Can anyone on this thread provide any basis for their assumptions or again is this just another piss on refugees/immigrants thread because they don't want to be Canadian which was what the original comment raised?

America has caused more shit than your post would lead one to believe. We could have long discussions about Pinochet and other propped up dictators, arming Iraq and the Mujahadeen, the list goes on. The bottom line is that some/many of the geopolitical problems we have today wouldn’t be so bad if America hadn’t engaged in so much clandestine manipulation of world affairs. America tends to put out a burning match with a fire hose, then can’t understand the source of anti-Americanism. It’s a pattern in domestic politics/law as well, with “three strikes you’re out” and making the poor accept guilty pleas when they’re innocent to avoid trials. There are many examples. You’re right, all countries have problems, but American problems have farther reaching impacts. On greenhouse gas emissions, US policy is leading the world off a cliff.

America's vision of the world is by far the greatest vision of the world among the big powers, stop pretending that because Trump got elected this is no longer the case, that's completely ridiculous. America doesn't have to be perfect, she just has to be better than everyone else, and that is the case. Every country on earth has flaws, constantly having a knee-jerk reaction to point out the flaws in America if anyone ever says anything positive about it, while neglecting to mention that other nations don't have far bigger flaws is just silly. No country is a monolith, and no one pretended they were, just because they said some positive things about America. Pointing out some of America's positives is not a claim of perfection. So stop strawmanning everyone who doesn't shit on America in every post as someone pretending it's perfect and filled with no citizens who aren't saints. Pointing out that ever nation has flaws including America, is not an insightful point, everyone already knows that, you aren't smart because you pointed it out, you're captain obvious pretending to add a relevant point to the discussion when you said something that doesn't even need to be said.

RCMP Canada-wide warrants for sexual offenders: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/wanted?term_node_tid_depth=1088&term_node_tid_depth_1=459&term_node_tid_depth_2=All What was the purpose of this exercise again? Scribblet, Dog on Porch and Argus trying to provide 'evidence' to support their promotion of hatred against Muslims? Have I got that right? So where is your evidence? I see no counts or tallies from the links you've all posted! Whassamatta? You did not find the evidence you hoped for? Can any of you three chronic promoters of hatred against Muslims - scribblet, Dog on Porch, Argus - tell me how many Muslims are among the sexual offenders with Canada-wide warrants in my link above? Post the number of Muslims. And then tell us how you determined what their religion is. Waiting ...

Ali Khaimeni. Give your bs lecture a rest. You knew damn well who he was referring to Kack tiss.

Absolute utter non sense blaming the passengers for a cock up by simply carried out by an official with triggered finger over the button. I am disgusted by lack of empathy for passengers (Ukranians included) and their family who have to carry the burden of their deaths over a piece of metal and pay compensation!?!? It is like saying the passengers knew the plane was going to be shut down. What a ridiculous statement.

Problem solved . . . . . Justin Trudeau's face on one side, and his other face on the other side. One face is white, the other face brown . . . . endless possibilities. Perhaps one side with his 'beard' and tears, the other side . . . . . . ?

Meh...no matter your proclivity towards the Mullahs and covered women, times were good under The Shah. Miniskirts...Rolling Stones...Hope... The works.

The Shah was already the monarchy and the King in Iran. He fled the country with Empress Farah in 1953 for dust to settle down. As much as I disagree with an assassination of a political figure, the emergence of Khomeini coming back from the shadows after living many years in exile is no coincidence. It was orchestrated by the West seeing through that his plane arrives safe at Iran and we witness the rules of Ayatollahs that took the upper hand on Tudeh party supporters who were essentially communists... But going back to your point regarding the scenario if the plane carrying Shah in 1953 was shot down one can argue if the coup did not take against Dr Mossadegh by the Brits and US there was no need for Shah to leave the country temporarily. I think the absence of democracy flourishing in Iran in 1953 created a vaccum in the Iran’s socio-politics, which inevitably led played to 1979 revolution. Things may have been may have been much different in 1978 and the revolution. Shah in his interviews always warned two forces existent in Iran. Reds representing communism and Blacks representing Islamists....

Complete and utter nonsense. How come producing IEDs to kill American soldiers wasn’t escalating tensions? How come seizing American ships in the straight of Hormuz wasn’t escalating tensions? How come attacking Saudi oil fields wasn’t escalating tensions? How come attacking American embassies wasn’t escalating tensions? Give me a f**king break.

President Trump was elected to take that shot...not to stand down because of what Iran might do with surface-to-air missiles against commercial airliners. Easy decision any day of the week.

Trump isn't responsible for incompetent Iranian authorities. The best we can say is Trump irresponsibly escalated the tensions, he certainly didn't cause that plane to get hit with a missile fired by Iran in error. If a man shoots up his workplace because his wife cheated on him and left him, you don't arrest the wife. People are responsible for their own actions.

Exactly. Soon they’ll be blaming Jews for the holocaust.

It's an opinion, likely shared by billions around the planet - that Trump started dancing a Tango in which a plane load of people were killed before the dancing stopped. As such the title is just fine the way it is.

I agree with you completely. It was ridiculous that Iran regime shoots down a commercial plane in its own airspace (in my view intentionally) and somehow Trump gets the blame for it. It is bad for the forum if the title for this thread is not change. The forum loses its credibility.

The first thing I ever said after I found out that the plane was shot down was that the Iranians were crapping bricks after they launched the missiles and they fragged the first thing that came on their radar. Surprise, surprise, I was right. Suleimani was responsible for the death of an American contractor, he was responsible for an attack on a US embassy, he was behind tankers being attacked and tankers being captured, he was behind an attack on a Saudi refinery, he was responsible for 1,600 dead protestors, and he crossed a line with Trump, now he's rotting in hell where he belongs. Instead of Trump starting an "our peons vs your peons" war of attrition, and piling up body bags, Trump killed the sonofabitch who was responsible. He cut the head off the snake in Iran, just like he did with islamic state. To all the people who think that peon vs peon warfare is awesome and killing Suleimani was "a terrorist attack" - grab a brain. I shouldn't have to explain to you what just happened. It's 100% obvious with the benefit of hindsight.

Yes...he would have been a legal target, why would he be different than say a soldier who was fighting Russians directly....Bin Ladin is a prime example of this, he planed , gave resources and provided logistics to his terrorist buddies....that got him on the list of lots of countries.... works both ways...

I agree that our conservatives are Liberal compared to Trump for example, I just don't think that Canadians were ready to go so far to the right as Bernier yet. Trudeau has the media locked down and we don't have Fox News up here telling the truth.

1)Look back at my previous post. 2)It outlines a completely clear trail to a completely necessary investigation. Everyone in Canada can see that trail if they have any objectivity in them at all. 3)I mentioned to you that the press wants you to think that a proper investigation is unwarranted. 4)Instead of replying "Oh yeah, that's a perfect example of the PM running rough-shod over existing laws, and the media telling Canadians that it doesn't matter at all, and then nothing happening about it" you talk about whether or not I think you're a Trudeau supporter. It doesn't matter whether or not I accused you of being Liberal in the past. Did Trudeau clearly break laws or not? Did the media tell Canadians to look the way and make it blow over? And where was the concern? Who actually gave a crap? Certainly not you. Why do you think that people will care about your law when you, eyeball the pontificator, don't care about actual laws that are already on the books yourself? get it?

Take the example of Charlie Wilson, the subject of a light-hearted movie. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson's_War_(film) He was part of an American effort to provide Stinger missiles to the Afghan mujahideen fighting Soviet soldiers. He had Soviet blood on his hands. Should the Russians have put him and others like him on a kill-list because of that alone?

No, I don’t want you to hate refugees. But if somebody expresses a willingness to go back to their country of origin, are they really refugees? I always thought refugees are suppose to come from really terrible situations. Not situations that they’d think about going back to because things aren’t as good as they thought in their new western country home. Regardless, the answer is probably that we should narrow our focus, as well as limit the number of people we accept, if our system can’t handle the volume. Which it obviously can’t. We already have many Canadians born here that are struggling to pay rent, etc. We don’t need to import more. I always thought imports were suppose to be of things we don’t or can’t produce. After all, we don’t import maple syrup and poutine.

Argus that's it? You found some ungrateful refugee? And? What is your point? exactly? What does pointing out when an individual is a shmuck, prove anything other than that individual is a shmuck?...if in fact they are actually a shmuck.. Have a nice day and thanks for sharing.

I like that plan. That would be a lot dam cheaper for the taxpayer's of Canada if the government did just that. Don't like or cannot make it here? Here is a one way plane ticket with lunch included back home compliments of the Canadian taxpayer's. It will again be a waste of taxpayer's tax dollars but in the end the taxpayer may save plenty of tax dollars doing just that. Will work for me.

I’d like to see Putin following Iran’s lead and finally admitting his country’s role in the downing of MH17.

The U.S. already has taken responsibility....easily detecting Iran's communications and missile signatures from space and reporting same. You're welcome....

How do you know where they are from just going by name/appearance? Perhaps they and their parents were born in Canada, which would make them "from Canada" and your assumptions racist - . "ie if they look a certain way, they are from somewhere else." Perhaps their parents were born elsewhere, and the people you see in the paper were born in Canada - again making them "from Canada", and again making your assumptions racist. Where I live, the list of "RCMP most wanted" features most white faces/names. Using your logic, I would assume that White people are prone to crime, while dark-skinned people are not.

still sour from 2016 i seee

If the Dems rig it, that will play in Biden's favor, not against him. Ain't no last minute white knight going to save them.

Well I think there was one ...Stockwell Day

That’s definitely what it seems. I can only imagine if somebody talked about Koran thumpers, or Torah thumpers. Apparently just being a regular practicing catholic or Christian means you’re automatically some kind of wacko.

Nah, that's not it, Canadian Confederation has simply become an enemy of liberty and prosperity by way of centrally planned Nanny Police State federal government overreach without end, I just want rid of this putrid and obsolete edifice of dysfunction. My relationship with Her Majesty is more about a personal doctrine of adherence to solemn oath of allegiance unto to death as necessary, for better or worse, come what may, once sworn, but the issue vis a vis Confederation, is simply that de-Confederation is actually a legally and constitutionally viable option within the confines of the House of Windsor, which would be a requirement for a non violent devolution into Sovereignty Association. In other words, yes, the Canadian Constitution has spoken, and Quebec has the right to withdraw from Confederation, and if they do, everybody else does as well. The trick would just be getting one province to break out to set the wheels in motion, very likely Quebec, although also a very slim chance it could be Alberta. At the end of the day, only the Guardians of Confederation here in Upper Canada have ever cared deeply about it, I've simply made a rational analysis that this has actually become a counterproductive zombie project to no good purpose at this juncture, and have as a result flipped to the Pequistes view of things therein. They are right, we are wrong, Ottawa is shit, and we need to free ourselves of it, all. All roads of Canadian dysfunction lead back to the Liberal Party of Canada and associated Guardians of Confederation propping up a failed state which cannot deliver for the people until it is decentralized into its component sub jurisdictions, by no means a panacea, but until we breakout of this clown show, none of us are going anywhere fast.