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On 10/16/2022 at 11:13 AM, Aristides said:

The Ottawa protesters were well past their best before date, they had made life miserable for the people of Ottawa for weeks, ignored court orders and broke numerous laws. It was time to go. 

<Ottawa> -> <Hong Kong>, <Canada> -> <China>

Find one difference (soon). Seriously.

Process does not give legitimacy. China has process. Every dictator can have at least a plausible imitation of a process. Democracy is not the process. But you forgot.

Edited by myata
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13 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

If it’s not the process

It's not if. Dictators have process. Iran and Hong Kong have process.

14 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

What gives our democracy legitimacy?

Conscious, active and voluntary participation of citizens. Short and without that, it wouldn't be possible to create independent of the governments checks, balances, and ultimately, accountability. Without accountability, I argue democracy cannot exist as a living entity, only a formal empty shell.

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1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

They weren't doing anything wrong. They were protesting against fascist overreach by our government. One would think that would be appreciated in a western society. We all know what happened when fascism went unchecked in Germany. 

Maybe for a day or two. Not 3 weeks plus and pledging to continue on indefinitely. 

Godwin FTW BTW. 

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35 minutes ago, myata said:

<Ottawa> -> <Hong Kong>, <Canada> -> <China>

Find one difference (soon). Seriously.

Process does not give legitimacy. China has process. Every dictator can have at least a plausible imitation of a process. Democracy is not the process. But you forgot.

Much as I agree that our country went that way for most of the last few years, I guess that the Senate here actually wound up being a functional roadblock for our out of control PM. 

It appears that the people with the lifelong appointments actually still care for democracy more than they fear Trudeau. 

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6 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Much as I agree that our country went that way for most of the last few years, I guess that the Senate here actually wound up being a functional roadblock for our out of control PM. 

It appears that the people with the lifelong appointments actually still care for democracy more than they fear Trudeau. 

I would hope they care for democracy more than any PM.

The Senate doesn't answer to the PM. They have no reason to fear him.

Edited by Aristides
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1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

The MSM, .....They made it an election issue for 3 years. 

..... 

You're too young to remember it, but anyone who watched "news" on CTV or CBC between 2012-2015 was conditioned to believe that Duffygate was the biggest political scandal in world history. 

In the end, Duffy didn't even do anything wrong and it wasn't even a scandal at all. 

I am not too young.

What I remember and know, is that Mike Duffy lived in Ottawa for over 30 years and in order to be a senator from PEI he had to get property there. So he bought a cabin. He still lived in Ottawa yet claimed he lived in PEI and got more money.

There were several others as well and they got off too. Mac Harb and I cannot remember the other ones. The whole thing was a scam and it would have done too much damage to the senate to prosecute them. They all should have been punished.

 

 

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1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

It was the logical thing to do in that moment. 

People who choose to remain ignorant to history are condemned to repeat it. FYI, that's you, just in case you didn't notice.

.....

Logical to ignore facts? Typical.

 

There is a big difference between not caring about the past and not knowing it.

I am very cognizant of the past and its value. i am also very cognizant of past events that are a spitball in a lake, like the trucker debacle and not worth anything.

Edited by ExFlyer
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19 minutes ago, myata said:

It's not if. Dictators have process. Iran and Hong Kong have process

So all processes should be treated as equal?  Why?  
 

Do you not think that Canada’s processes are superior to Iran’s?

20 minutes ago, myata said:

Conscious, active and voluntary participation of citizens.

Participation in what….  the processes?

How many of the citizenry need to participate?  100%?  50%?

21 minutes ago, myata said:

Short and without that, it wouldn't be possible to create independent of the governments checks, balances, and ultimately, accountability. Without accountability, I argue democracy cannot exist as a living entity, only a formal empty shell.

These are all processes that you’re talking about.  
 

 

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3 minutes ago, RedDog said:

Not that easy. I want the money back.

You would be very lucky to be able to take all the land with you….   And you’d certainly get your share of the national debt to take with you as well.  
 

You may even need to buy Canada’s share of the tar sands out upon leaving…. 

Edited by TreeBeard
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Of course not, the entire convoy obviously didn't know how Parliamentary Democracy works either.

Duhhh we'll hand this made up petition to the GG and the Queen will fire Trudeau... duhhh!

edit - FFS they didn't know how anything works. We can't even enter the USA so let's march because we they won't let us back if we do... duhhhh

Edited by herbie
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49 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am not too young.

What I remember and know, is that Mike Duffy lived in Ottawa for over 30 years and in order to be a senator from PEI he had to get property there. So he bought a cabin. He still lived in Ottawa yet claimed he lived in PEI and got more money.

There were several others as well and they got off too. Mac Harb and I cannot remember the other ones. The whole thing was a scam and it would have done too much damage to the senate to prosecute them. They all should have been punished.

Dude, just getting paid for being a senator and getting that massive pension for all that they accomplished during the years of 1900-2021 was a crime if you think about. 

People have been appointed to the Senate at 74.5 years, served half a year as a "senator" but never had to actually do anything official, and then got 6-figure pensions. 

The amount of money that has been wasted on senators over the years is criminal, but at least they did something this year. 

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48 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Logical to ignore facts? Typical.

It was logical to ignore you. And yes, that is fairly typical.

Quote

There is a big difference between not caring about the past and not knowing it.

If you knew the significance of it, you'd care.

You're a fascist sympathizer so you don't think that their crimes were all that bad, and you're ready to move on. I get it, 100%.

In the future, if another PM decides that you have to take a vax or lose your human rights maybe you won't see it the same way. Maybe you'll object to having your bank accounts frozen, or getting beaten by police when you join a protest against all the things that are happening to you. But in the end, you'll have to be ok with it, because you're busy setting the precedent for how our gov't can behave in the future. 

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16 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Senate appointments are lifelong, with mandatory retirements and big fat pensions at 75, as I mentioned before. 

If you didn't know you could have just asked me instead of babbling. 

 

So, not lifelong. 
 

27 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

People have been appointed to the Senate at 74.5 years, served half a year as a "senator" but never had to actually do anything official, and then got 6-figure pensions. 

Except they have to serve 6 years before getting a pension.  
 

Once again, you show a complete ignorance to how the parliament operates.  It must be very freeing to never have to actually know what you’re talking about….  To have absolutely zero care about shamelessly spewing nonsense seems liberating. 

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