Russian Army collapsing - the unsurprising failure of a police-state

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, PIK said:

Who's to say it didn't help.

The millions of people terrorized by Isis. The destabilization of the region. The hundreds of thousands that died from that conflict alone. 

Tens of thousands of women and girls raped and being sold for the pleasure of the fighters. Are you seriously asking me this?

The only people this helped, where the US leaders seeking a hobbled Iraq due to their erratic behavior, only making it worse, ironically. 

2 hours ago, PIK said:

needed to be stopped

Kind of like Kim Jong Un?

Only thing that is stopping this, are the nukes protecting him.

If you honestly think trillions were wasted in this baseless war, to stop a tyrannical leaders from terrorizing his people, I want whatever you are smoking.

This has everything to do with OPEC, and using an excuse to bomb the living daylights out of an unpredictable member, which could have had devastating repercussions to the oil dependent US economy.

[BeaverFever]

6 hours ago, bcsapper said:

25000 troops sure doesn't seem like enough to win a Russian civil war.

Even if they are well trained and battle hardened.

They don’t have to win it single-handedly. They just have to divert enough resources so that other potential challengers to Putin’s rule will be emboldened to make their move. Putin could soon see his forces fighting multiple small internal uprisings and secessions while Ukraine already has his forces stretched beyond the brink. Chechnya for instance is ruled in Putins name by a Khadyrov, a warlord whose faction was initially fighting AGAINST Russia in the failed Chechen war of independence until Putin cut him a deal allowing him to be a mini-czar. Now his forces suppresses other anti-Russian Chechen factions for Putin with the backing of Putin’s military.  If Putins power amd authority erodes any further he may make a move of his own,  out of ambition or political necessity. 

[Nationalist]

19 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

You must be sorry to see the inevitable and completely predictable collapse of Putin’s regime which is a direct result of his disastrous and unnecessary invasion. 
 

Theres no way Putin survives this politically. Even if he somehow magically gets an immediate peace treaty in Ukraine and defeats Wagner he’ll be left too weak to maintain his grip on power and someone else will knock him off.  
 

Coming soon: Chechen independence, possibly other states like Dagestan to follow. 

Well it looks like the Wagners left Moscow and are headed elsewhere. Not sure where yet.

And I'm not "sorry" at all. How many times do you have to be told? I don't care who wins or loses this farce.

[Nationalist]

17 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

I have a side and it’s Ukraine because I’m also on the side of liberty and civilization.  

Liberty? For whom? Do you see liberty anywhere in Ukraine now?

[BeaverFever]

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Well it looks like the Wagners left Moscow and are headed elsewhere. Not sure where yet.

And I'm not "sorry" at all. How many times do you have to be told? I don't care who wins or loses this farce.

Nobody believes you’re “neutral”. 
 

The situation is only diffused for the time being with the Wagners decamped back to Ukraine and Belarus. Putin has been humiliated and his authority has been challenged without consequence and now his battered and degraded military which is already struggling in Ukraine has to keep one eye on Wagner forces. Assuming Putin can stabilize his power base, he will strike at Prigozhin fist chance he gets.   Look for Prigozhin to die from radioactive poison or nerve agent the same way other Russian traitors have l. 

[Michael Hardner]

16 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

  Look for Prigozhin to die from radioactive poison or nerve agent the same way other Russian traitors have l. 

I've read this elsewhere, but I don't get it.  Putin isn't God, he can't get to anyone he wants to.

[BeaverFever]

2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

I've read this elsewhere, but I don't get it.  Putin isn't God, he can't get to anyone he wants to.

He assassinates people all the time, it’s not that hard for a government to do. Most prominently: Navalny (who survived), Litvinenko amd Skirpal who were both killed in the UK.   

A comprehensive list of everyone assassinated by Russia or USSR is here, Putin has been in power since 1999 :
 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Soviet_and_Russian_assassinations

[Michael Hardner]

4 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

He assassinates people all the time, it’s not that hard for a government to do.  

And yet he can't get at zelensky...

I'm saying that at a certain level you can protect yourself from him.  The head of Wagner is at that level for one.

[Moonbox]

Seems like Wagner is being dissolved (at least in Russia/Belarus), and he wouldn't be the first oligarch to get offed.  

[BeaverFever]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And yet he can't get at zelensky...

I'm saying that at a certain level you can protect yourself from him.  The head of Wagner is at that level for one.

Because Zelensky being an head of state and not some dissident, ALSO has significant sophisticated government resources, which are dedicated to protecting him around the clock. Prigozhin and Putin’s other victims can’t say the same

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

Because Zelensky being an head of state and not some dissident, ALSO has significant sophisticated government resources, which are dedicated to protecting him around the clock. Prigozhin and Putin’s other victims can’t say the same

I don't know.  I would guess that Prigozhin, operating in a dangerous career, figured out his personal security plan awhile ago.

 

But we don't know.

[Guest]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

I don't know.  I would guess that Prigozhin, operating in a dangerous career, figured out his personal security plan awhile ago.

 

But we don't know.

I hope it involves a face transplant and spending the rest of his life with the Maoris.

[SpankyMcFarland]

What was extraordinary was the initial lack of response from the Russian authorities as Prigozhin advanced on Moscow. His own force was tiny but there seemed to be no resistance to it. The cheering crowds in Rostov-on-Don saying goodbye to him must also concern Putin and his regime. 

Edited June 25, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Army Guy]

On 6/24/2023 at 1:36 PM, PIK said:

CNN..Biden talking to close allies, Canada wasn't mentioned.

Canada has nothing of any real value to offer. Besides we are not really a close allied either.

[Nationalist]

8 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

Nobody believes you’re “neutral”. 
 

The situation is only diffused for the time being with the Wagners decamped back to Ukraine and Belarus. Putin has been humiliated and his authority has been challenged without consequence and now his battered and degraded military which is already struggling in Ukraine has to keep one eye on Wagner forces. Assuming Putin can stabilize his power base, he will strike at Prigozhin fist chance he gets.   Look for Prigozhin to die from radioactive poison or nerve agent the same way other Russian traitors have l. 

Beave...you're among the last people I care about believing anything.

This might get interesting. 

[PIK]

On 6/24/2023 at 4:58 PM, Perspektiv said:

The millions of people terrorized by Isis. The destabilization of the region. The hundreds of thousands that died from that conflict alone. 

Tens of thousands of women and girls raped and being sold for the pleasure of the fighters. Are you seriously asking me this?

The only people this helped, where the US leaders seeking a hobbled Iraq due to their erratic behavior, only making it worse, ironically. 

Kind of like Kim Jong Un?

Only thing that is stopping this, are the nukes protecting him.

If you honestly think trillions were wasted in this baseless war, to stop a tyrannical leaders from terrorizing his people, I want whatever you are smoking.

This has everything to do with OPEC, and using an excuse to bomb the living daylights out of an unpredictable member, which could have had devastating repercussions to the oil dependent US economy.

The same millions being terrorized and raped by Saddam and his family, plus trying to get the bomb,which could have been a lot worse.  And NK should have been bombed back to the stone age. Now it's to late.

[Moonbox]

10 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

What was extraordinary was the initial lack of response from the Russian authorities as Prigozhin advanced on Moscow. His own force was tiny but there seemed to be no resistance to it. The cheering crowds in Rostov-on-Don saying goodbye to him must also concern Putin and his regime. 

Something like 98% of the Russian Armed Forces was committed to the Ukrainian front line.  They don't have strategic reserves.  The only things they have defending Moscow are the various security services and the (probably) worthless and not especially well-equipped National Guard.  25,000 battle-hardened meanies would probably be worth more than 100,000 National Guard. 

The optics of storming the city, however, was not going to be great, and I guess the man didn't have the support he'd hoped for if it came to that.  

 

[BeaverFever]

15 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Beave...you're among the last people I care about believing anything.

This might get interesting. 

I don’t care if you care, Putin puppet. 

[taxme]

On 6/17/2023 at 6:57 PM, BeaverFever said:

It did not blow up it’s own dam, it blew up a Ukrainian dam it had occupied, exactly as predicted 8 months prior in order to flood the Ukraine army’s axis of advance. 
 

You say “knowing Zelensky” but you don’t know anything about Zelensky and your baseless claims that he is a Jewish Nazi are seriously beyond brainwashed idiocy.

Putin bombs civilians every single day and murders his own citizens for criticizing him. He has already proven that to him blowing the dam is child’s play that he wouldn’t think twice about.
Do you complain that western media didn’t also give Hitler’s side of the story equal credibility to the allies during ww2? 

Well, Zelensky must be a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer because he has many Nazi's helping him fight the Russians. Not my words. From my understanding, Zelensky is Jewish. Can you dispute that? 

There is a war going on in Ukraine, and like in all wars, there will be many innocent civilians being either injured or killed. A fact of life. Like I always say? To hear and learn about only one side of the story, is to know nothing at all. There are always two sides to every story. We never did get to hear Hitler's side of the story from the western MSM, now did we. And the western MSM is still refusing to give us Putin's side of the story. 

I once was able to get RT.COM on my TV. But it has been removed. Why? Looks like the western MSM only wants you and me to know the Zelensky's side of the story. At least that is my belief and opinion for now. 

[taxme]

On 6/18/2023 at 8:00 AM, Aristides said:

The Soviets blew up a dam on the same river in 1941 to slow a German advance. 

How would Ukraine blow up a dam in Russian territory? It took several special 9000 lb spinning bombs with a hydrostatic fuse dropped from aircraft flying at 50 feet to breach the Ruhr dams in 1943. 

Anything is possible. I would not trust Zelensky, as far as I could throw him, to do such a thing as blowing up the dam. As far as I am concerned, Zelensky would do anything to make Russia look bad. I do not believe that Zelensky could careless about what happens in Ukraine or to it's people. This Zelensky guy has received billions of dollars in aid from America alone, and many of those billions of dollars cannot be accounted for. Where did all the money go? 

Who then blew up some bridge in Crimea awhile back? Putin? 

[Aristides]

25 minutes ago, taxme said:

Anything is possible. I would not trust Zelensky, as far as I could throw him, to do such a thing as blowing up the dam. As far as I am concerned, Zelensky would do anything to make Russia look bad. I do not believe that Zelensky could careless about what happens in Ukraine or to it's people. This Zelensky guy has received billions of dollars in aid from America alone, and many of those billions of dollars cannot be accounted for. Where did all the money go? 

Who then blew up some bridge in Crimea awhile back? Putin? 

First you are going to have to explain how the Ukrainians could blow up a dam in Russian occupied territory. These are concrete structures 100 feet thick. Bridge decks are much more fragile.

[taxme]

49 minutes ago, Aristides said:

First you are going to have to explain how the Ukrainians could blow up a dam in Russian occupied territory. These are concrete structures 100 feet thick. Bridge decks are much more fragile.

It happened many times during WW2 where many bridges and structures were blown up by both sides in the war and both sides sneaking around in one another's territory in the dark of night and planting bombs. Why can't a Ukrainian soldier/s sneak into Russian territory and plant a bomb or three? There is always a weak spot somewhere to easily blow up. 

 

[Aristides]

56 minutes ago, taxme said:

It happened many times during WW2 where many bridges and structures were blown up by both sides in the war and both sides sneaking around in one another's territory in the dark of night and planting bombs. Why can't a Ukrainian soldier/s sneak into Russian territory and plant a bomb or three? There is always a weak spot somewhere to easily blow up. 

 

All of them took thousands of pounds of explosives and specialized bombs.

[Moonbox]

5 hours ago, taxme said:

It happened many times during WW2 where many bridges and structures were blown up by both sides in the war and both sides sneaking around in one another's territory in the dark of night and planting bombs.

Blowing up a bridge, or a building, is not the same thing as a concrete dam.  This was built to hold back a lake, and was about as fortified as a structure can get.  The only time any of these were busted in WW2 is was a special Allied project using 9000 pound bouncing depth-charge bomb that had to be delivered by super-bombers.  

5 hours ago, taxme said:

Why can't a Ukrainian soldier/s sneak into Russian territory and plant a bomb or three? There is always a weak spot somewhere to easily blow up. 

Because it's a strategic piece of critical infrastructure, it's guarded, and a suitcase bomb won't do the trick.  Besides, the Russians already told everyone it was a HIMARS attack, which proves they're lying because the HIMARs payloads are like 1/50th the size required.

[Nationalist]

Nobody yet knows who done it, but it appears the benefit is to Ukraine.

Nobody knew who blew up Nordstream either...until the Yankees threw the Ukrainians under the bus.