Is Russiophobia one of Trudeau's "Acceptable Views"?

[cougar]

1 hour ago, myata said:

There are shades and there's black and white, moral right and atrocity, war crime, hell. What Putin and his country is doing in Ukraine now, and in many places before that we managed to look the other way, is nothing short of the crimes of the Nazi's Germany. This is nothing to do with "russiaphobia" just the stark reality.

And nothing short of the crimes of Bush and Blair in Iraq or Afghanistan.

They went in there to topple the government of a sovereign nation oceans away from them.  Putin is doing the same to a neighboring country that was part of the USSR and is posing a threat to him at this point.

I don\t like to see war anywhere, people killed or even the environmental impact of it, but let's not bullshit each other that the west is in any way better.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, myata said:

There are shades and there's black and white, moral right and atrocity, war crime, hell. What Putin and his country is doing in Ukraine now, and in many places before that we managed to look the other way, is nothing short of the crimes of the Nazi's Germany. This is nothing to do with "russiaphobia" just the stark reality.

Yes, Putin, his circle, and the Russian military are committing war crimes in the Ukraine.  They are deliberately targeting civilians, families, children and destroying complete residential buildings and cities.  Anybody who thinks Russiaphobia is a thing needs to seek mental help. 

quote  

On Saturday, Russia bombarded cities across Ukraine, pounding Mariupol in the south, shelling the outskirts of the capital, Kyiv, and thwarting the efforts of people trying to flee the violence.

In Mariupol, which has endured some of the worst punishment since Russia invaded, efforts to bring food, water and medicine into the port city of 430,000 and to evacuate civilians, were prevented by unceasing attacks. More than 1,500 people have died in Mariupol during the siege, according to the mayor's office, and the shelling has even interrupted efforts to bury the dead in mass graves.  unquote   

Russians strike closer to Polish border, port city reels (msn.com)

Edited March 13, 2022 by blackbird

[Nationalist]

On 3/11/2022 at 11:05 AM, CITIZEN_2015 said:

Russiophobia is as a direct result of murderous actions by Russian governments and Russian armies over the past many years and centuries and is very legitimate and has nothing to d with Trudeau. The whole world criticizing these murderous actions.

I have to write a book to even summarize murderous actions by various Russian governments but I only summarized the most recent,

Colonizing half the Europe for over half a century sponsoring the most oppressive governments in Eastern Europe

Occupation of Afghanistan and killing of many civilians there even the use of toy bombs to specifically target and kill children.

Killing of civilians in Chechnya and Georgia by Putin regime including the use of cluster bombs

Invasion of Ukraine and indiscriminate bombing and killing of civilians.

Their history is full of murders and killers killing even their own people who dared to oppose like Stalin did with his opponents. Russian army commits many rapes against defenseless civilians every time they occupy a territory.

 

And this justifies discrimination against Russian nationals that have migrated here?

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And this justifies discrimination against Russian nationals that have migrated here?

The Russians who have immigrated here did so because they preferred Canada over Putin's Russia.  The Russians here are criticizing Putin, as are Russian expats around the world.  They're the only ones who can get past the Russian censors.  200,000 Russians have emigrated from the country in the last 2+ weeks, and they speak out as well. 

Most of the folks complaining about russiaphobia are Putin apologists and conspiracy clowns, only pretending to care about discrimination or racism when the regime that's been feeding them propaganda for the last 6 years gets nailed with sanctions and boycotts.  

Black people, hispanics, muslims - NO WAY!  KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!  Those poor, poor Russians though.  ?

[Zeitgeist]

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

The Russians who have immigrated here did so because they preferred Canada over Putin's Russia.  The Russians here are criticizing Putin, as are Russian expats around the world.  They're the only ones who can get past the Russian censors.  200,000 Russians have emigrated from the country in the last 2+ weeks, and they speak out as well. 

Most of the folks complaining about russiaphobia are Putin apologists and conspiracy clowns, only pretending to care about discrimination or racism when the regime that's been feeding them propaganda for the last 6 years gets nailed with sanctions and boycotts.  

Black people, hispanics, muslims - NO WAY!  KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!  Those poor, poor Russians though.  ?

Ha, the first NATO supplied brigade in Ukraine is the Azov.  You don’t understand the conditions leading up to these events, so why would you understand the solutions, which are actually political?

[myata]

8 hours ago, cougar said:

And nothing short of the crimes of Bush and Blair in Iraq or Afghanistan.

You have to retain a grain of objectivity or any discussion would be pointless. Did you forget the reasons why the US and allies went to Afghanistan?
Regarding Iraq, I did not support and opposed that war and fortunately Canada did not participate in it. I will not compare it, and it has nothing to do with entirely unprovoked, blatant invasion of an independent country in Europe and war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in its course. What a typically Soviet argument, your old mistake somehow justifies and nullifies my crime today. A crime is crime whoever it's committed by. There's no rationalization and no justifications.

8 hours ago, cougar said:

and is posing a threat to him at this point.

That was a lie of Putin and now you are parroting it. A threat is not what a dictator, tyrant claims, they can claim anything that suites them anytime that's what dictators do. To say that you need evidence that Russia was in any way, even minuscule way threatened by Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia all the countries it crated decade-long conflicts in or threatens with. Otherwise you would be repeating lies. That is, lying.

[cougar]

1 hour ago, myata said:

You have to retain a grain of objectivity or any discussion would be pointless. Did you forget the reasons why the US and allies went to Afghanistan?
Regarding Iraq, I did not support and opposed that war and fortunately Canada did not participate in it. I will not compare it, and it has nothing to do with entirely unprovoked, blatant invasion of an independent country in Europe and war crimes and crimes against humanity committed in its course. What a typically Soviet argument, your old mistake somehow justifies and nullifies my crime today. A crime is crime whoever it's committed by. There's no rationalization and no justifications.

That was a lie of Putin and now you are parroting it. A threat is not what a dictator, tyrant claims, they can claim anything that suites them anytime that's what dictators do. To say that you need evidence that Russia was in any way, even minuscule way threatened by Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia all the countries it crated decade-long conflicts in or threatens with. Otherwise you would be repeating lies. That is, lying.

You are kidding me , right ?

The invasion of Iraq was totally unprovoked and was done only for the capitalist interests of the west.

An ugly display of power on the TV , like some sort of a horror movie titled "Shock and Awe".

The official reasons for the invasion were A LIE !  Something everyone knew before and it was confirmed after.

You just have no leg to stand on.

 

I suggest, we here in Canada stick to digging out mass graves in Residential school yards, instead of putting our noses in and expressing opinions on a conflict on the other side of the planet that we know close to nothing about !

Edited March 13, 2022 by cougar

[cougar]

doubled post, sorry

Edited March 13, 2022 by cougar

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

For starters your question in response to what Aristides said reminds me of the old saw "there's good people on both sides". 

Blah blah blah, have your own opinion, coward.

Quote

It's pretty clear you're saying this is a case where someone's better

Its pretty clear that Russia had very good reason to not want NATO in Ukraine and they clearly stated that was a line in the sand for them. Period. 

That's pretty basic. It's a 100% legitimate reason for war. Suck it up buttercup.

Quote

As for the rest of your demented hooey.....it reads here exactly like it does amongst all the other threads that include your endless obsessive hatred and tirades against the Democrats...the left...the media....yadda yadda yadda. 

Everything you say is just utterly stupid eyeball.

That's why I'm constantly talking about things that are actually happening or will happen and you're always regurgitating MSM lies that get debunked.

This topic is no different. In just one week we went from the US gov't and every single one of their puppet media sites saying "There are NO BSL3 labs in Ukraine. Anything that you hear to the contrary is Russian disinformation!" to "We're worried that the Russians will get access to the contents of the BSL3 labs in Ukraine! We're worried that the electricity will go out there and bioweapons will thaw and be released!" FYI this is just another reason why Russia was correct in going to war with Ukraine. 

Quote

FIFY

That was actually a pretty decent edit, eyeball. I approve. You coulda thrown JT in there for even more bonus points. 

[eyeball]

18 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Everything you say is just utterly stupid eyeball.

...

That was actually a pretty decent edit, eyeball. I approve. 

Hmmmm. 

[-TSS-]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes give Russia an exit and assurances. NATO got too aggressive.  For what?  Russia could’ve been part of NATO and none of this would’ve happened.  

What would NATO be for if Russia were part of it? A force against an invasion of space aliens?

[WestCanMan]

48 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Hmmmm. 

OK, I'll give the devil his due... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

[WestCanMan]

15 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Yes give Russia an exit and assurances. NATO got too aggressive.  For what?  Russia could’ve been part of NATO and none of this would’ve happened.  

That's like the Ayatollah converting to Judaism, moving to Israel, and getting a top secret security clearance. 

[eyeball]

40 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

OK, I'll give the devil his due... Even a broken clock is right twice a day. 

If I had a dollar for everytime a conservative told me that I'd be rich. 

[myata]

2 hours ago, cougar said:

The invasion of Iraq was totally unprovoked and was done only for the capitalist interests of the west.

This is typical kind of Russia's arguments that cannot be understood by anyone with a grain of sanity. Jack hit someone ten years back so I'll hit you now and I'll be in the right. How does this make any sense? In what hopelessly twisted universe?

Edited March 13, 2022 by myata

[WestCanMan]

5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If I had a dollar for everytime a conservative told me that I'd be rich. 

If you had to pay a penny every time you were wrong you'd have enough debt to cripple China ?

[WestCanMan]

I think the sunglasses emoji makes my post look even cooler than it actually was. 

[cougar]

1 hour ago, myata said:

This is typical kind of Russia's arguments that cannot be understood by anyone with a grain of sanity. Jack hit someone ten years back so I'll hit you now and I'll be in the right. How does this make any sense? In what hopelessly twisted universe?

Now you make zero sense to me.

See this video about Blackwater

And now see this one, where the four killed Blackwater US killers are described as "civilians".

 

Edited March 13, 2022 by cougar

[Zeitgeist]

5 hours ago, -TSS- said:

What would NATO be for if Russia were part of it? A force against an invasion of space aliens?

That’s my whole point.  Russia wouldn’t be taking extreme measures to protect its security if she hadn’t been treated like the enemy after the Soviet Union collapsed.  All that relationship-building with Gorbechev, Glasnost, Perestroika, the inclusion of Russia in the G8, the joint missions to the International Space Station…all for nought now, because we couldn’t help ourselves from NATO expansionism.  But whatever, Putin is a madman, all things Russian are bad, ignore extremist elements in Ukraine, and fuel the fire of military conflict rather than seeking a good political solution.

[Moonbox]

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s my whole point.  Russia wouldn’t be taking extreme measures to protect its security if she hadn’t been treated like the enemy after the Soviet Union collapsed.

They weren't treated like the enemy.  They tried to transition out of almost nowhere from a command economy into an open one over a period of a few years and the process was corrupted by mobsters and well-connected apparatchiks.  Russia had like less than 10 years of briefly experimenting with democracy before Vlad and his KGB and mobster friends took over.  

Even then, plenty of leaders and countries cozied up with Russia and established deep trade ties and it wasn't until 2008-2009 (Georgia, the gas crisis with Ukraine etc) that the west started to really sour on Russians again, and only half-heartedly until recently.  

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 All that relationship-building with Gorbechev, Glasnost, Perestroika, the inclusion of Russia in the G8, the joint missions to the International Space Station…all for nought now, because we couldn’t help ourselves from NATO expansionism.

No, it's all for nothing because of Putin.  The invasion of Ukraine proves NATO's raison for being.  Sweden and Finland are talking about joining now, and it's purely because they're not strong enough to defend themselves against Putin's naked aggression. 

4 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

 But whatever, Putin is a madman, all things Russian are bad, ignore extremist elements in Ukraine, and fuel the fire of military conflict rather than seeking a good political solution.

If you want to talk about the extremists in Ukraine, you have to talk about the Russian-backed ones going tit-for-tat with the Azov brigade, as well as the Russian persecution of Crimean Tatars.  There are bad actors on both sides, but Putin invaded Ukaine and is shelling its cities, not the other way around.  You're here making apologies for him because you're so desperate for something to explain why the world doesn't work the way you want that you're easy pickings for Russian propaganda and the bots and garbage they post on telegram and your conspiracy websites.  It's freaking sad.  

[myata]

9 hours ago, cougar said:

See this video about Blackwater

OK when you get this kind of "argument" you know that further discussion is pointless. What does "Blackwater" have to do with Russian crimes in Ukraine? Bombing hospitals, killing children, razing entire cities?

This is a cave age argument, it isn't intended to explain anything in a human language only to cover and rationalize atrocities committed to others. Why don't you just say we are allowed to do anything to get what we want, there are no limits to us, ethical, legal, humane, like the troglodytes of old? That would be honest at least and exactly what it is. Not like anyone with eyes and a brain cannot see that this is the only argument it has come down to.

Edited March 14, 2022 by myata

[Nationalist]

17 hours ago, Moonbox said:

The Russians who have immigrated here did so because they preferred Canada over Putin's Russia.  The Russians here are criticizing Putin, as are Russian expats around the world.  They're the only ones who can get past the Russian censors.  200,000 Russians have emigrated from the country in the last 2+ weeks, and they speak out as well. 

Most of the folks complaining about russiaphobia are Putin apologists and conspiracy clowns, only pretending to care about discrimination or racism when the regime that's been feeding them propaganda for the last 6 years gets nailed with sanctions and boycotts.  

Black people, hispanics, muslims - NO WAY!  KEEP THEM OUT OF OUR COUNTRY!  Those poor, poor Russians though.  ?

Why would you fall back on that lame racial crap? Do you really think I give a rat's ass about skin color?

[Miloburke]

On 3/11/2022 at 4:30 PM, WestCanMan said:

They have a right to live in peace, and Ukraine was a dire threat to that. They didn't have to choose that route but they did. 

Your inability to have understanding for other people's situations is duly noted.

No but you're the cause of it for anyone with an IQ over 70. Your amorality is duly noted. 

Hi WestCanMan,

 

Can you explain how Ukraine is a threat to the peaceful existence of Russia? I have tried to look at it from several angles, but it alludes me.

[Zeitgeist]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

They weren't treated like the enemy.  They tried to transition out of almost nowhere from a command economy into an open one over a period of a few years and the process was corrupted by mobsters and well-connected apparatchiks.  Russia had like less than 10 years of briefly experimenting with democracy before Vlad and his KGB and mobster friends took over.  

Even then, plenty of leaders and countries cozied up with Russia and established deep trade ties and it wasn't until 2008-2009 (Georgia, the gas crisis with Ukraine etc) that the west started to really sour on Russians again, and only half-heartedly until recently.  

No, it's all for nothing because of Putin.  The invasion of Ukraine proves NATO's raison for being.  Sweden and Finland are talking about joining now, and it's purely because they're not strong enough to defend themselves against Putin's naked aggression. 

If you want to talk about the extremists in Ukraine, you have to talk about the Russian-backed ones going tit-for-tat with the Azov brigade, as well as the Russian persecution of Crimean Tatars.  There are bad actors on both sides, but Putin invaded Ukaine and is shelling its cities, not the other way around.  You're here making apologies for him because you're so desperate for something to explain why the world doesn't work the way you want that you're easy pickings for Russian propaganda and the bots and garbage they post on telegram and your conspiracy websites.  It's freaking sad.  

No you don’t have a clue what’s happening.  Russia could’ve blown Ukraine into submission very quickly if that was their intent.  They’ve been quite surgical in their actions.  Your take is feeding the fire.  It doesn’t matter. Throw money and weapons at Ukraine, lengthen the suffering of civilians, put weapons in the hands of extremists and dangerous actors (including newly released prisoners), and perceive Putin as a madman.  Putin laid out Russia’s concerns before the invasion, which were ignored.  It’s amateur hour as Iran becomes aggressive with the US in Iraq, China looms over Taiwan, and Trudeau shoots his mouth off about democracy after using martial law against protesters and with a military that has never been weaker.  It’s absurd.  Now we’re going to have a completely unnecessary revision of cold and hot war, but Biden knows how to go “toe to toe with Putin.”   Well now NATO has to strengthen.  Canada will have to expand her military.  Basically the world just became a lot more dangerous.  

Edited March 14, 2022 by Zeitgeist

[Moonbox]

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No you don’t have a clue what’s happening.  Russia could’ve blown Ukraine into submission very quickly if that was their intent.  They’ve been quite surgical in their actions.

No they haven't.  The Russian military is full of conscripts who don't even want to be there, and the idea that they've been "surgical" is a freaking joke.  Their initial plans have been embarrassingly thwarted.  Like in Chechnya, the Russians are turning to their usual solutions - bombardment and indiscriminate brute force.  

3 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Putin laid out Russia’s concerns before the invasion, which were ignored.

Putin's "concerns" are a farce.  He dreams of a restored greater Russia, but nobody wants to be part of it or its "sphere of influence".  Under his leadership, the Russian economy is a shambles and most Russians live in poverty.  The fertility rate is far below replacement rates and demographic trends will see its population shrink in the coming years while immigration rates fail to make up the difference.  Unsurprisingly, a poverty-stricken dictatorship ranks relatively low on the list of desired destination for immigrants. 

I don't think Putin is mad.  I think he's desperate and completely amoral.  This is an old, evil little man realizing his dreams were crumbling to dust and that maintaining the status-quo only made things worse.  He attempted to intimidate and bluster his neighbors into submission (a play directly out of the impotent-bully playbook) but they called his bluff.  Ukraine turned out to have a spine.  NATO turned out to have a spine.  Most surprisingly of all, the EU also ended up having a spine.  Now he's stuck in a campaign that will make both Soviet and American campaigns in Afghanistan look like grand successes by comparison, and his economy will be fall apart as part of the backdrop.  This is the end for Putin, and I bet he knows that.  

What's so pathetic about your reasoning is that the solution to all of this would be to give everything that this murderous little despot wanted, rather than him just...not invading Ukraine.  It's so dumb and so morally bankrupt it raises clear questions about your character.