The push is on of the Omicron or Omnicon virus.

[Winston]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Certainly facts seem to be pointing that way. Why is there such a resistance to move in this direction from both public health management and politicians? I wouldn't like to bring in speculation of agendas, but what could be other rational and reasonable explanations?

Only they could answer this question, but few if anyone is asking this question publicly. 

[myata]

50 minutes ago, Winston said:

few if anyone is asking this question publicly

It would defy credibility to think that the question never occurred. So by the principle of exclusion, there has to be a reason why the answer is nowhere to be found.

[Shady]

[-TSS-]

When you think about the vaccine-passport with the QR-code on your phone one can't help thinking that this wouldn't have been technically possible only some years ago. 

Similarly, can't help thinking when technology develops what kind of things will become possible in the future. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Shady said:

In hindsight public health policy should have been recommending masks, distancing and other simple measures along with vaccines decades ago.

 I suspect deaf ears will prevail and dominate but note I said recommend and not dictate.

[WestCanMan]

38 minutes ago, eyeball said:

In hindsight public health policy should have been recommending masks, distancing and other simple measures along with vaccines decades ago.

 I suspect deaf ears will prevail and dominate but note I said recommend and not dictate.

Don't forget the tinfoil hats. 5G is coming!

Maybe there should be a new country where everything is sterilized and bubble-wrapped, hey eyeball?

No filthy dogs or cats running around, kids are forced to wash their hands at the top of every hour, there's only 1 news channel and they have full control over social media - to prevent disinformation, everybody gets the same standard of life regardless of what they contribute to the community, etc. 

OMG, I can't wait to move to Eyeballistan once they've identified the one true religion and their constitution is ratified. Good times! And by good, I mean super-boring but sooooooo safe. 

[eyeball]

Like I said, expect deaf ears to prevail LOL!

[Infidel Dog]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

In hindsight public health policy should have been recommending masks, distancing and other simple measures along with vaccines decades ago.

Really? Give us some evidence that any of that has worked this time.

We had some unusual cold clean weather this year so I pulled my mask up over my nose and blew out my mouth.

I saw steam. No aerosol protection. Case closed. Masks don't work. We don't even need to look at all the studies that say they don't work. Drug-store masks don't offer virus protection. It even says so on the box.

[Infidel Dog]

I kind of like social distancing though. Never was a hugger or a hand-shaker.

[myata]

Happy holidays everyone and picking up the topic of

a) What is the risk of a serious Covid-19 for general healthy population compared to flu/common cold

and

b) Why there's no consideration/discussion/evidence-based evaluation of alternative approaches focusing on effective management of the problem based on the priority, rather blanket and uniform "shotgun" solutions (that we have yet to see work once, now that all-time highs are reached yet again with all the recommended measures in place).

As no information or discussion is forthcoming, here's a few guesses, please add any other that come to mind. By the principle of exclusion of unlikely or impossible alternatives we should be able to get to the bottom of it, at least if this Universe at this time still retains a connection to reason and logic.

A. There's a terrible secret that justifies anything and everything that the public just cannot know.

If it exists how likely it would be to remain a terrible secret for two years and many a wave in this information age? Highly unlikely to plain impossible.

B. The system cannot handle it.

We have to agree here, the old system was not designed and certainly could not operate in a situation with a high influx of mostly mild cases where some would develop into more serious courses. It just isn't: a) smart enough b) quick enough c) intelligent d) effective e) efficient f) sufficiently resourced g) capable of quick response and adapting and so on.

No, the system as it is is highly unlikely to handle it. So what do we do about it?

C. The managing bureaucracy cannot adapt the system to the needs of the day (now exactly two decades after SARS pandemic).

Does it look more likely than a terrible, terrible secret? Highly advanced aliens among us spreading it to grab our resources with the planet itself out there; or just good old, slow; lazy; inept; over-expensive and self-satisfied and absorbed in itself bureaucracy? Which one, pick one.

D. Because the system cannot be adapted (not in time, and likely, ever) to the needs of the day, there are only two options.

E. Oiiii look the models are showing if we all don't do (put it here) right now it will collapse ("crumbling system"), aiiiiii!!

F. You have to all do (it) right now under the penalty of (fill) because (never mentioned, p. C), no questions asked, a perfect total consensus of TV exsperts (all involved with the system somehow, step aside, independent opinion impossible) or it will collapse, oi!!

G. This is the only way it can work.

No, we haven't seen it sorry. First, it has not be shown that it works - and we have not seen that it does, sorry. Secondly, no other approaches were tried so there's no way to tell if they would have worked better. Especially an intelligent and effective targeting of the areas where the problem is most serious. No, by all signs and walks of it, it looks just like a plain old dogma that is the only way it can work, in the eyes and minds of believers.

But there's another possibly too (yes, longread apologies, almost there): that we are reaching the end of another age of reason, intelligence, democracy and so on. The society has grown mentally lazy and self-absorbed. It does not want to ask questions and look for intelligent solutions that work. No, it wants only quick and easy answers to all and any problem that comes along to back to the happy routine (yes, "bread and circuses", how new. First, passionate democracy, followed by prosperity bringing about bread and circuses and on to authoritarianism, upheavals and back again, heroically). But are they always assured to exist?

And if so, what would we do about it?

Edited December 26, 2021 by myata

[-TSS-]

Don't fall for this vaccinated vs unvaccinated  juxtaposition. It is deliberate attempt of sowing of discord among the population. The feud only exists on the social media. Not in real life.

[eyeball]

21 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Really? Give us some evidence that any of that has worked this time.

The phenomenally low incidence of seasonal influenza and common colds around the word.

Quote

 

We had some unusual cold clean weather this year so I pulled my mask up over my nose and blew out my mouth.

I saw steam. No aerosol protection. Case closed. Masks don't work. We don't even need to look at all the studies that say they don't work. Drug-store masks don't offer virus protection. It even says so on the box.

 

Nothing is 100% so you do the best you can and glean a few percent here and there from masks, hand washing, distancing, vaccines etc and get as close to %100 as possible.  To reiterate, look at the effect this has had on the flu and common colds. Imagine how much worse COVID would have been without these measures and then add the flu and common colds to the misery of that.

[Shady]

21 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Really? Give us some evidence that any of that has worked this time.

We had some unusual cold clean weather this year so I pulled my mask up over my nose and blew out my mouth.

I saw steam. No aerosol protection. Case closed. Masks don't work. We don't even need to look at all the studies that say they don't work. Drug-store masks don't offer virus protection. It even says so on the box.

I’m for them recommending anything they want.  I draw the line at forcing.  Regardless, what a lot of Branch Covidians don’t  understand is that most people have no issue with washing hands, distancing etc.  It’s the shutting down of businesses and schools for months at a time by edict.  With no voting on new legislation, no debate etc.  And anyone that defends this behaviour is defending lawlessness and authoritarianism.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by Shady

[Shady]

6 minutes ago, eyeball said:

The phenomenally low incidence of seasonal influenza and common colds around the word.

Nothing is 100% so you do the best you can and glean a few percent here and there from masks, hand washing, distancing, vaccines etc and get as close to %100 as possible.  To reiterate, look at the effect this has had on the flu and common colds. Imagine how much worse COVID would have been without these measures and then add the flu and common colds to the misery of that.

Imagine what we could do to heart disease which kills three times as many Canadians each year than covid does, if we implemented obesity passports etc, and put restrictions on food items certain people could purchase from grocery stores and restaurants.  Imagine if we mandates gyms and personal training!  We could almost eliminate obesity, diabetes, heart disease, and many other illnesses that go along with them!

[eyeball]

16 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Don't fall for this vaccinated vs unvaccinated  juxtaposition. It is deliberate attempt of sowing of discord among the population. The feud only exists on the social media. Not in real life.

No it exists in my own family and several other families and people I know have to deal with this division too.  This tension between vaxed and anti-vaxxing people within families was around a long time before COVID arrived.

So when you say a deliberate attempt of sowing discord who or what exactly do you mean? Is this happening in an organized systematic way involving teams of people managed by administrators?  Is this a government program, NGO's or some public/private partnership?      

[Shady]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

No it exists in my own family and several other families and people I know have to deal with this division too.  This tension between vaxed and anti-vaxxing people within families was around a long time before COVID arrived.

So when you say a deliberate attempt of sowing discord who or what exactly do you mean? Is this happening in an organized systematic way involving teams of people managed by administrators?  Is this a government program, NGO's or some public/private partnership?      

It’s media driven.

[eyeball]

4 minutes ago, Shady said:

It’s media driven.

Facilitated perhaps. Driven implies drivers which implies someone deliberately trying to gaslight our entire society and planet.  It's a ludicrous notion.

I suppose it'll only be a matter of time until you're suggesting we control the media.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

It’s media driven because fear sells.  Cynical governments or governments with controlling agendas can use this.  I don’t respect our governments anymore because the restrictions that have been placed on workers, travellers, shoppers, etc. can’t be justified.  Covid is no longer a serious health threat to our mostly vaccinated public. Canadians simply aren’t as free anymore.  They’re certainly a compliant bunch, but they’re also an increasingly soft and manipulated bunch.  In Florida right now most people are unmasked and socializing, living normal lives.  Those who are worried wear masks.  People know they might get Omicron and they weigh the risks.  If they get it, they’ll probably be just fine.  Canadians seem unable to shake their fear and retreat.  

Edited December 26, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[eyeball]

32 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s media driven because fear sells.  Cynical governments or governments with controlling agendas can use this.  

Yes if it bleeds it leads but this is something anyone with even a badly tuned BS filter can account for so I think facilitated is a better choice of words to describe what the media has done with its motivation to make a profit. The more organized systematic manner captured in the phrase controlling agenda implies something much vaster in scope and motivated by something that's actually insidious.  You'd need tens of thousands of people working in some sort of concert given the scope of the task of being in control of so much information.  There would have to be offices filled with people, whole buildings of them in fact, where are they?  Who is writing their pay-cheques?  Surely an organization would have produced a few whistle-blowers with evidence of these by now so where are these? 

The reason I can't buy the notion governments are behind it all is that there are none on Earth competent enough to pull anything like this off without cocking it up. 

Quote

I don’t respect our governments anymore because the restrictions that have been placed on workers, travellers, shoppers, etc. can’t be justified.  Covid is no longer a serious health threat to our mostly vaccinated public. Canadians simply aren’t as free anymore.  They’re certainly a compliant bunch, but they’re also an increasingly soft and manipulated bunch.  In Florida right now most people are unmasked and socializing, living normal lives.  Those who are worried wear masks.  People know they might get Omicron and they weigh the risks.  If they get it, they’ll probably be just fine.  Canadians seem unable to shake their fear and retreat.

I respect our need for government but I stopped respecting a lot of the politicians we elect to run it for us decades.  I'm still as free to fume about the government's restriction on my liberties and freedom when I'm stuck behind a red-light but I'm not about to let my disdain for politicians cause me to say 'fuck it' and step on the gas anyway.  Isn't Florida where city planners got fired for suggesting climate change would lower property values?

Canadians still seem more rational and cautious.

Edited December 26, 2021 by eyeball

[Zeitgeist]

30 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Yes if it bleeds it leads but this is something anyone with even a badly tuned BS filter can account for so I think facilitated is a better choice of words to describe what the media has done with its motivation to make a profit. The more organized systematic manner captured in the phrase controlling agenda implies something much vaster in scope and motivated by something that's actually insidious.  You'd need tens of thousands of people working in some sort of concert given the scope of the task of being in control of so much information.  There would have to be offices filled with people, whole buildings of them in fact, where are they?  Who is writing their pay-cheques?  Surely an organization would have produced a few whistle-blowers with evidence of these by now so where are these? 

The reason I can't buy the notion governments are behind it all is that there are none on Earth competent enough to pull anything like this off without cocking it up.  

The best way to control isn’t in the obvious Pharoah beats the slaves into submission way.  You plant seeds by championing certain narratives with big international organizations by throwing money at them and installing your own people.  This is happening at organizations like the WHO, our universities, our media content producers, etc.   Plant the seeds, set the conditions.  We are very much conditioned and indoctrinated.  It’s happening again with land acknowledgments, “anti-black racism” training, censorship laws, public health Puritanism, and Cultural Marxism.  The proof is right under your nose because it’s everywhere: the end of family and community, surveillance capitalism, green fascism, totalitarian capitalism.  There isn’t one player.  These are mass movements with government and corporate backing.  We can barely question it because it’s embedded in our very language.  I’ve more or less given up, but I’ll pipe up where I can.  

[taxme]

On 12/25/2021 at 9:41 AM, -TSS- said:

When you think about the vaccine-passport with the QR-code on your phone one can't help thinking that this wouldn't have been technically possible only some years ago. 

Similarly, can't help thinking when technology develops what kind of things will become possible in the future. 

The only thing that any of us needs to worry about now is if the bankster globalist cabal tries to eliminate cash and goes digital with the possibility of eventually putting an RFID(666)chip in your finger with a social credit system attached to it. Don't laugh, there has been plenty of talk about doing this.

And if that should ever happen there goes your freedom. A bad credit score will determine as to whether you can buy or sell or travel. Be a good obedient slave citizen and all will go well for you. Be bad and life will be rough. ?

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

The phenomenally low incidence of seasonal influenza and common colds around the word.

Nothing is 100% so you do the best you can and glean a few percent here and there from masks, hand washing, distancing, vaccines etc and get as close to %100 as possible.  To reiterate, look at the effect this has had on the flu and common colds. Imagine how much worse COVID would have been without these measures and then add the flu and common colds to the misery of that.

Is that your theory? Maybe. A bit at least. I heard another one that says a high proportion of colds and flus were diagnosed as covid. 

When you consider all comorbidities we know were diagnosed as covid deaths it's not hard to believe flu would get mixed in with the bunch.

But let's say your theory is the only real truth. Are you suggesting then that mask mandates, lockdowns and passport segregation continue indefinitely to fight flu now? Big fan of government control, are you? You know, there's a side for that? 

Edited December 26, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[Infidel Dog]

"

New data from the Zoe symptom-tracker app suggests one in two people with new coldlike symptoms will have COVID-19 rather than the common cold.

Tim Spector, an epidemiologist and the study’s lead author, said in a press release on Thursday that for most people, getting infected with Omicron would feel “much more like the common cold, starting with a sore throat, runny nose and a headache,” rather than fevers, continuous cough, or loss of taste or smell.

"

https://moonbattery.com/omicron-hard-to-distinguish-from-normal-cold/

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, myata said:

Happy holidays everyone and picking up the topic of

a) What is the risk of a serious Covid-19 for general healthy population compared to flu/common cold

and

b) Why there's no consideration/discussion/evidence-based evaluation of alternative approaches focusing on effective management of the problem based on the priority, rather blanket and uniform "shotgun" solutions (that we have yet to see work once, now that all-time highs are reached yet again with all the recommended measures in place).

As no information or discussion is forthcoming, here's a few guesses, please add any other that come to mind. By the principle of exclusion of unlikely or impossible alternatives we should be able to get to the bottom of it, at least if this Universe at this time still retains a connection to reason and logic.

A. There's a terrible secret that justifies anything and everything that the public just cannot know.

If it exists how likely it would be to remain a terrible secret for two years and many a wave in this information age? Highly unlikely to plain impossible.

B. The system cannot handle it.

We have to agree here, the old system was not designed and certainly could not operate in a situation with a high influx of mostly mild cases where some would develop into more serious courses. It just isn't: a) smart enough b) quick enough c) intelligent d) effective e) efficient f) sufficiently resourced g) capable of quick response and adapting and so on.

No, the system as it is is highly unlikely to handle it. So what do we do about it?

C. The managing bureaucracy cannot adapt the system to the needs of the day (now exactly two decades after SARS pandemic).

Does it look more likely than a terrible, terrible secret? Highly advanced aliens among us spreading it to grab our resources with the planet itself out there; or just good old, slow; lazy; inept; over-expensive and self-satisfied and absorbed in itself bureaucracy? Which one, pick one.

D. Because the system cannot be adapted (not in time, and likely, ever) to the needs of the day, there are only two options.

E. Oiiii look the models are showing if we all don't do (put it here) right now it will collapse ("crumbling system"), aiiiiii!!

F. You have to all do (it) right now under the penalty of (fill) because (never mentioned, p. C), no questions asked, a perfect total consensus of TV exsperts (all involved with the system somehow, step aside, independent opinion impossible) or it will collapse, oi!!

G. This is the only way it can work.

No, we haven't seen it sorry. First, it has not be shown that it works - and we have not seen that it does, sorry. Secondly, no other approaches were tried so there's no way to tell if they would have worked better. Especially an intelligent and effective targeting of the areas where the problem is most serious. No, by all signs and walks of it, it looks just like a plain old dogma that is the only way it can work, in the eyes and minds of believers.

But there's another possibly too (yes, longread apologies, almost there): that we are reaching the end of another age of reason, intelligence, democracy and so on. The society has grown mentally lazy and self-absorbed. It does not want to ask questions and look for intelligent solutions that work. No, it wants only quick and easy answers to all and any problem that comes along to back to the happy routine (yes, "bread and circuses", how new. First, passionate democracy, followed by prosperity bringing about bread and circuses and on to authoritarianism, upheavals and back again, heroically). But are they always assured to exist?

And if so, what would we do about it?

Maybe all of those things, to some extent. Plus some more. One I ascribe to is “follow the money”. 

The previous system was economically exploited to the point of an empty shell. Covid is a whole new economy. It instantly appeared, all enginee running lights fully on, worldwide, and with added growth potential.

Invest in Covid economies? Sounds goof to me. I mean good. But yeah.

Then ya got yer environmental movement. Extremists with a big agenda. Not just the global warming. Thunbergism. 

Which means, advent of state-sanctioned self-loathing among our youth.

“And a child shall lead them.” to their incelibate graves.

- Will to depopulation -

Fear of otherness, closeness.

Rise of the post-national state...

 

 

 

[myata]

20 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Rise of the post-national state...

And maybe this is no exaggeration. The authorities at all levels and orders are moving firmly and confidently on from business, affairs, areas and domains responsibilities etc management to people management. It's more rewarding, and there are no checks and no questions to answer. Like how do you evaluate effectiveness of a policy? Only by the number of them, and that is never a problem.

Exit criteria? Targeted vs delivered result? No no, all things of the past. Look there's this new thing so you have to and here's the prescription.

Even where there are system, balances, checks and controls if and when citizens go to sleep they rust and grind to a halt. And here we have none, yada. Never thought we would need them. If it works like it did two hundred years back why bother fixing.