The push is on of the Omicron or Omnicon virus.

[myata]

OK here it is. This data (Ontario Public Health) shows clearly and once and for all the absence of any rational case for forced, coerced and anything other than voluntary Covid vaccination.

If vaccines were preventing spread of the infection, confirmed not assumed or expected and to a significant degree, as regular vaccines do, there may have been a case. Now it is clear that they do not.

The second argument that has been made is that unvaccinated consume public health resources. It is not clear whether this argument has merit because many other choices do, and never personal choices led to mandatory policies. People were not prohibited smoking, drinking, consuming drugs sometimes with much higher risk of a negative effect than from Covid for a healthy average individual.

And whatever was left of that argument and if, is finished now with the numbers. No, non vaccinated do not consume more hospital resources (in the data the split is about 50/50). There's no ground and no case. This is as arbitrary and voluntaristic application of authority as it gets.

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, Infidel Dog said:

Thanks for the link. That CBC claim kind of defies belief.

So I checked out the source Justin McElroy claimed he made his chart from.

I couldn't find the exact data he says he found but I did find this one for the month including all but one day of the 2 weeks Justin claimed he was using:

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/PublishingImages/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/data/Surveillance_2012.PNG

Pretty radical difference don't you think? What might explain that? Other than more CBC BS, I mean.

These guys below used the same 2 weeks in Justin of CBC's wild eyed claim and they say it looks more like this:

Over the past two weeks (Dec. 7-20) this is how cases hospitalized broke down from unvaccinated to vaccinated:

• Not vaccinated: 122 (66.7%)
• Partially vaccinated: 7 (3.8%)
• Fully vaccinated: 54 (29.5%)

https://www.kamloopsbcnow.com/watercooler/news/news/COVID_19/BC_reports_record_high_COVID_19_case_count_for_second_straight_day#fs_106628

Get serious though. Did that radical CBC claim even make sense to you? I mean, really...

 

So 66.7% of the hospitalization coming from the 12% of the population that isn't vaccinated and 29.5% coming from the 88% of the population that is fully vaccinated. The  numbers may be a bit different but they certainly point in the same direction.

[myata]

There's current data, official from Ontario that shows the split of approximately 50/50, right above. Even if two thirds of the cases were coming from a specific group of population, never before to my knowledge a case has been made to impose mandatory restrictions on the entire population simply for the reason of utilization of the system resources. What is truly mind boggling is not the argument itself, just about anything can be said and stated, but how it became a de facto foundation of a vast indiscriminate policy without as much as a public discussion. Wow. Yes apparently we can do that, and accept that.

Edited December 23, 2021 by myata

[Faramir]

5 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Yeah, I heard an interesting theory on Japan. It suggest they may have some sort of natural immunity developing. The theory is it's a racially specific, biochemical thing. 

Florida is interesting too. They pretty much decimated Delta using the "vaccine" and monoclonal antibodies. But now Omicron has hit. Cases are suddenly skyrocketing. It doesn't appear to be affecting the death stats yet, though.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

Nope death stats at lows now.  Pandemics are of course very complex - so much so there has to be a lot of lee way in comparing one country to another, or even one state to another.   While LA has the same amount of people as NYC, you would expect hire infection rates due to population density.  And as you said race might or likely does come into it as well.  Diet makes a difference.  Koreans for example are very healthy people and that could explain the low death rates in south Korea.  Americans one would expect higher death rates than say Europe due to the number of obese individuals.

[Faramir]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

In BC

COVID-19 infections in B.C. by vaccination status, adjusted by population and age
Cases Per 100k/weekHospitalizations Per 100K/week
Unvaccinated
226
14.05
Partially vaccinated
38.3
3
At least two vaccine doses
93.7
0.6
 

So the unvaccinated are hospitalized at 23.4 times the rate of fully vaccinated.

You will also find the differences in nominal deaths for the last 8 years is miniscule in BC.  Around 7500 die give or take each year in BC, with or without COVID.  Of course they try to blame outliers on drug overdose.

[Faramir]

2 hours ago, Infidel Dog said:

Thanks for the link. That CBC claim kind of defies belief.

So I checked out the source Justin McElroy claimed he made his chart from.

I couldn't find the exact data he says he found but I did find this one for the month including all but one day of the 2 weeks Justin claimed he was using:

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/PublishingImages/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/data/Surveillance_2012.PNG

Pretty radical difference don't you think? What might explain that? Other than more CBC BS, I mean.

These guys below used the same 2 weeks in Justin of CBC's wild eyed claim and they say it looks more like this:

Over the past two weeks (Dec. 7-20) this is how cases hospitalized broke down from unvaccinated to vaccinated:

• Not vaccinated: 122 (66.7%)
• Partially vaccinated: 7 (3.8%)
• Fully vaccinated: 54 (29.5%)

https://www.kamloopsbcnow.com/watercooler/news/news/COVID_19/BC_reports_record_high_COVID_19_case_count_for_second_straight_day#fs_106628

Get serious though. Did that radical CBC claim even make sense to you? I mean, really...

 

You are making the mistake of thinking CBC does investigative level journalism.  LOL.  To be fair none of them do.  Not CTV.  Not Global. They just all spew the same level of disinformation.

[WestCanMan]

5 hours ago, Aristides said:

So the unvaccinated are hospitalized at 23.4 times the rate of fully vaccinated.

Adverse reactions to the vax are infinitely higher in the double-vaxxed group.

Dbl-vaxxed people still get covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still die of covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still spread covid. 

Covid still only kills people within a specific target demographic: very elderly people with co-morbidities.

There's still no data showing that people outside of the at-risk groups actually needed the vaccines.

[-TSS-]

This shit-show will go on to the unforeseeable future. Just get used to it. It goes up and down and people are pushed to the point of desperation that if only they do as they are told they can have their old life back.

Go to the pub, take a foreign holiday, meet their friends without counting how many people there are etc.

But unfortunately it is not going to end. We have clearly entered some new era and the old world is gone forever.

 

 

 

 

[Aristides]

1 hour ago, WestCanMan said:

Adverse reactions to the vax are infinitely higher in the double-vaxxed group.

Dbl-vaxxed people still get covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still die of covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still spread covid. 

Covid still only kills people within a specific target demographic: very elderly people with co-morbidities.

There's still no data showing that people outside of the at-risk groups actually needed the vaccines.

 

Bullshit. Everyone I know is at least double vaxxed. None had side effects lasting longer than two days.

Double vaxxed can get infected. Unvaxxed go to hospital.

[Zeitgeist]

3 hours ago, -TSS- said:

This shit-show will go on to the unforeseeable future. Just get used to it. It goes up and down and people are pushed to the point of desperation that if only they do as they are told they can have their old life back.

Go to the pub, take a foreign holiday, meet their friends without counting how many people there are etc.

But unfortunately it is not going to end. We have clearly entered some new era and the old world is gone forever.

 

 

 

 

Well that should be a personal choice.  It’s clear in some US states that the governments have finally backed off of restrictions. Most people — most of them healthy and young or at least fully vaccinated (but not all) — are living much as they did before the pandemic: shopping and working unmasked, meeting friends at bars, attending crowded events, living normally.   Guess what?  The sky isn’t falling.  Some of them get Covid.  Sometimes it leads to more serious illness.  More rarely, they die.  Hospitals are managing.  The vulnerable and/or fearful are taking more precautions.

As Omicron becomes the dominant strain, it’s likely that most people will get this variant, and the vast majority of them will avoid hospitalization and serious illness.  Are we reaching endemic?   I think so, but no one will announce its arrival.  There’s no certainty that occasional mass outbreaks won’t occur and that people won’t die.  Better treatments in the form of accessible pills are coming.  The biggest challenge going forward, I believe, is our unwillingness to accept a level of risk that we can’t eliminate.  For how many more months or years do we mask up and count cases and contact trace?  Is that really how we want to live?

Again, it’s the paranoid and controlling we have to worry about more than death from Covid.  We know how to protect ourselves in reasonable ways.  Now let us live our lives.  End all restrictions for good.  Personal liberty and responsibility are critical to maintaining a free society. We’ve sacrificed enough and suffered too many non-Covid injuries to continue down this totalitarian path.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Zeitgeist

[cougar]

3 hours ago, -TSS- said:

But unfortunately it is not going to end. We have clearly entered some new era and the old world is gone forever.

 

This is indeed the scary part, not the virus.

I am not afraid of the virus as much as I am afraid of the idiotic restrictions meant to supposedly keep it under control.

I am similarly not afraid of nature and climate, but I am terrified by the measures our governments take to further undermine those.

[Accountability Now]

2 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Bullshit. Everyone I know is at least double vaxxed. None had side effects lasting longer than two days.

Double vaxxed can get infected. Unvaxxed go to hospital.

That's what I find interesting about the Omicron variant. See, before it came along we were following the UK's path such that first the vaccine stopped protecting from infection and then it stopped protecting from hospitalizations and deaths. About 4 months after the UK had their second doses, their hospitalizations were 50/50 split for all ages but a staggering 78% double vaxxed for those over 50 (the demographic that matters most). Deaths were also overwhelmingly with the double vaxxed as well since most people in that age group were vaxxed. This proved that the vaccines waned. 

Even if Omicron hadn't hit us, the percentages would start switching anyway simply because of this waning effect. Add Omicron now that really evades the vaccines and you have immediate switching for cases but its unclear for hospitalizations. 

The point to all this is two fold:

1. Vaccines wane which is why they are pushing so heavily for boosters

2. You really need to stop polarizing the issue between vaxxed and unvaxxed and realize the real dichotomy is between young/healthy versus old/pre-existing conditions. 

[Infidel Dog]

3 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Bullshit. Everyone I know is at least double vaxxed. None had side effects lasting longer than two days.

Double vaxxed can get infected. Unvaxxed go to hospital.

Want a chuckle?

Check this one out:

https://citizenfreepress.com/breaking/its-beginning-to-look-a-lot-like-clotshot/

It's a collection of people passing out from the clotshot. There's also accompanying headlines of deaths in the news.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Infidel Dog

[myata]

9 hours ago, Accountability Now said:

You really need to stop polarizing the issue between vaxxed and unvaxxed and realize the real dichotomy is between young/healthy versus old/pre-existing conditions. 

Also the effectiveness and efficiency of the system when faced and dealing with novel challenges. Public investment, no matter how massive, somehow is never reflected in the results the system that is always and chronically in some state of either crisis or disrepair.

[Aristides]

19 hours ago, WestCanMan said:

Adverse reactions to the vax are infinitely higher in the double-vaxxed group.

Dbl-vaxxed people still get covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still die of covid. 

Dbl-vaxxed people still spread covid. 

Covid still only kills people within a specific target demographic: very elderly people with co-morbidities.

There's still no data showing that people outside of the at-risk groups actually needed the vaccines.

So 66.7% of hospitalizations are coming from the 12% of the population that is unvaccinated. That must mean the unvaccinated make up the majority of old people and people with co-morbidities.  Good to know.

Edited December 24, 2021 by Aristides

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, Aristides said:

 

Bullshit. Everyone I know is at least double vaxxed. None had side effects lasting longer than two days.

 

About 50% of the people that I know are vaxxed and three had very serious side-effects including temporary paralysis (25 yr old male in the navy), heart stoppage (21 yr old girl), and 2 hours of seizures (55 yr old man).

Quote

Double vaxxed can get infected. Unvaxxed go to hospital.

Double-vaxxed still die. Get your head out of your ass.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1257040/number-covid-deaths-canada-by-vaccination-status/

Those stats go from Dec 14 2020 when zero people were vaccinated, until Nov 27th.  

Almost 1,000 dbl-vaxxed died in Canada (981), and there have only been dbl-vaxxed since about Feb 14th.

752 died "unprotected, I'm pretty sure that means "had a vax, died within 14 days". If that's the case, some of those may have been killed by the vax itself. 

731 partially protected, I think that means 1 vax plus the 14 day waiting period. 

7,861 unvaxxed. 

It's 8x as many unvaxxed as dbl-vaxxed, but there wasn't a single dbl-vaxxed person in Canada for the first two months of this data collection. It wasn't until June/July when the dbl-vaxxed reached 50% of the population. The unvaxxed had several times as much exposure during this time frame.

Only 3x as many unvaxxed died than [partially + unprotected + dbl vaxxed], and again, they had more exposure. 

 

Since the beginning of the pandemic only 794 people under 50 died of covid. That period encapsulates 10 more months of covid deaths, but there are still 1.2 as many covid deaths among dbl-vaxxed as there are among people under 50. 

 

 

[Aristides]

Still don't know anyone who has had side effects longer than two days. The first AZ shot knocked my son in law on his ass for a couple of days but that was the worst.

[taxme]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:31 AM, Faramir said:

BC yesterday just announced new measures. My wife asked me what I think and I said let's keep our plans for a New Years eve party and the Bonnie Henry can eat sh!t.

Good old comrade Bonnie the commie Henry can eat shit alright. This Marxist has caused more harm to the peasants of BC because of this covid scamdemic hoax. Comrade Henry is making a six figure salary and is being paid a huge salary to make the lives of we the peasants living here in BC a living hell.

Marxist Henry once worked for the WHO(WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION)not the band. I have no doubt in my mind that Bonnie poo has to be getting some kind of a kickback for pushing all of these vaccine mandates and she keeps on trying to scare the hell of the many idiots out there who will still believe and will listen to her constant put to sleep boring words and scare tactics of this covid bull chit. When I listen to her speak, I start to fall asleep. 

After almost two years of this propaganda covid nonsense there still appears to be no end in site to this medical tyranny madness. The only way to end this covid tyranny nonsense is for the peasants to finally say enough already and we the peasants are not going to take it anymore. We want our old lives back now. Tell Bonnie poo to go eat shit. 

Sad thing is that she knows that this covid scamdemic is nothing more than a scam. Lucky for her there are plenty of stupid peasants out there who are still willing to go along with her scamdemic covid virus bull chit lies. Marxist Henry has now been able to convince many of those peasant bozos out there to go get a booster shot. Amazing indeed. ? 

[WestCanMan]

14 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

Almost 1,000 dbl-vaxxed died in Canada (981), and there have only been dbl-vaxxed since about Feb 14th.

 

12 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Still don't know anyone who has had side effects longer than two days. The first AZ shot knocked my son in law on his ass for a couple of days but that was the worst.

That's it? 

You said [paraphrasing] that the worst thing that happens to dbl-vaxxed people is that they get "infected" and unvaxxed go to the hospital. 

I just showed you that almost 1,000 fully dbl-vaxxed have died in Canada. You couldn't have been more wrong.

Quote

Since the beginning of the pandemic only 794 people under 50 died of covid. That period encapsulates 10 more months of covid deaths, but there are still 1.2 as many covid deaths among dbl-vaxxed as there are among people under 50. 

I've challenged you many times to present your case for vaxxing people under 40, under 30, or 12-18 and you still haven't even taken a swing and a miss. 

You just regurgitate what CTV says all the time but you can't back anything up. Why is it that I have stats and you just have opinions every time? 

C'mon Aristedes. Don't just repeat what you see on CTV ffs. I know that you fancy yourself to be an intelligent & informed person, so just DO SOME FACT CHECKING. DO SOME OF YOUR OWN THINKING. DON'T LET CTV GIVE YOU YOUR OPINIONS IN NEAT LITTLE SOUND BITES. 

They lie and omit ALL THE TIME. You know for a fact that Rayshard Brooks wasn't "Killed after falling asleep at a drive-thru." Just because a narrative tickles your politicalbone doesn't mean that you should accept it as established fact. 

Do you know any people whose comments have to be taken with a grain of salt? Our MSM is actually right squarely in that same category. Quoting them is like quoting Bernie Madoff. 

 

[Aristides]

Airlines are canceling flights because of crews calling in sick with Omricon. What happens when health care workers start doing the same? All you so called healthy people who claim covid can't hurt them better not have any accidents or other health  problems because there might be no paramedics to pick you up or health care workers to look after you.

[taxme]

On 12/23/2021 at 9:53 AM, Infidel Dog said:

Yeah, I heard an interesting theory on Japan. It suggest they may have some sort of natural immunity developing. The theory is it's a racially specific, biochemical thing. 

Florida is interesting too. They pretty much decimated Delta using the "vaccine" and monoclonal antibodies. But now Omicron has hit. Cases are suddenly skyrocketing. It doesn't appear to be affecting the death stats yet, though.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/florida/

The cases of Omnicon will be on the rise and only because of the politicians and those so called health experts and officials whom will try and make it appear so. The PCR test has been shown to be a faulty way of doing any tests on covid. It does not work.

But that does not matter to our glorious Marxist politicians. They will adjust the level threshold up to make it appear as though the numbers are on the rise just so those mentioned above can keep this medical tyranny madness going and keep the tyranny going and keeping control and power over we the stunned peasants.

This is all about power and control by our politicians and has nothing to do with any covid virus anymore. The big pharma globalists and our Marxist power hungry politicians are making plenty of bucks pushing their vaccines on the many buffoons out there who still believe in this covid nonsense. Now these same buffoons are now getting their booster shots with more booster shots to come. Stupidity is everywhere in this gawd forsaken Marxist controlled country. ?

[Winston]

26 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So 66.7% of hospitalizations are coming from the 12% of the population that is unvaccinated. That must mean the unvaccinated must make up the majority of old people and people with co-morbidities.  Good to know.

According to BC CDC week 49 situational report total annual numbers (Jan 2020- Dec 2021)  

70% of hospitalizations are from the 50+ age group. 

75% of ICU patients are from the 50+ age group. 

96% of deaths are from the 50+ age group. 

57% of those deaths are from the 80+ age group. 

90% of the 50+ age group population is vaccinated, yet the 50+ age group has the highest numbers of any age reference point. In terms of data analysis, age and preexisting health conditions, would be primary predictors of expected outcomes. 

 

[Aristides]

Just now, Winston said:

According to BC CDC week 49 situational report total annual numbers (Jan 2020- Dec 2021)  

70% of hospitalizations are from the 50+ age group. 

75% of ICU patients are from the 50+ age group. 

96% of deaths are from the 50+ age group. 

57% of those deaths are from the 80+ age group. 

90% of the 50+ age group population is vaccinated, yet the 50+ age group has the highest numbers of any age reference point. In terms of data analysis, age and preexisting health conditions, would be primary predictors of expected outcomes. 

 

So? 66.7% of them are still from the 12% of the population that is unvaxxed. It just means older antivaxxers are even stupider than young ones.

[Winston]

4 minutes ago, Aristides said:

So? 66.7% of them are still from the 12% of the population that is unvaxxed. It just means older antivaxxers are even stupider than young ones.

Most of the hospitalizations come from 30+ in the unvaccinated group. On the other hand, most of the hospitalizations come from the 50+ in fully vaccinated age group. This would indicate, comparing older age groups, the hospitalizations are nearly equal, at 100 per million unvaccinated to 95 per million fully vaccinated. 

The point is that for the older generation, vaccination and hospitalizations are nearly identical irrelevant of vaccine status. Even the death rate is higher for 70+ fully vaccinated group than for the 70+ unvaccinated. 

Hence, In terms of data analysis, age and preexisting health conditions, would be primary predictors of expected outcomes. Since most of the deaths occur in the 50+ age group, we could focus on treating those in the 50+ age group and maintaining health in that 50+ age group, instead of focusing on vaccine status for the groups below the 50+. 

 

 

[myata]

1 hour ago, Winston said:

we could focus on treating those in the 50+ age group and maintaining health in that 50+ age group, instead of focusing on vaccine status for the groups below the 50+. 

Certainly facts seem to be pointing that way. Why is there such a resistance to move in this direction from both public health management and politicians? I wouldn't like to bring in speculation of agendas, but what could be other rational and reasonable explanations?

Edited December 24, 2021 by myata