Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Boges said:

This is the thing right? 

JT just bumped Gas Prices again over the weekend. Nothing that'll bankrupt anyone but there doesn't seem to be a political movement to scrap Carbon pricing. 

Pierre Pollivre would like to speak with you please

1 hour ago, Boges said:

No one should feel the need to sell their newish ICE vehicle to jump on the bandwagon today. But if you're in the market, and I was in 2020, if it makes sense for you, it's a good investment on cost savings going forward. 

For some, sure and i think they should have that as a choice they can choose from. But you can't make that as a sweeping statement.

1 hour ago, Boges said:

If you're buying a new car, you're likely already committing to a $30k plus sticker price. We've gone over ones that are cheaper, but they're not the best cars. So why not make the investment in reducing some of the ongoing costs of keeping a car on the road?  

Because lots of people don't want the best cars. Seriously - people have already mentioned this many times.  The best you can say is "considering this, it makes sense that people have this option to consider".

1 hour ago, Boges said:

This also assumes you have a garage to charge and another ICE car would help (not essential though).

And the cool thing about the EV is that its usage will reduce the wear and tear on your older ICE vehicle, as you'll likely be using your EV for most daily tasks. 

Well - another ice car would ALSO reduce the wear and tear on your existing car   LOL

They're good for some people. I'm glad they are an option. They're PROBABLY the way of the future unless the problems of hydrogen get solved. But they are a little niche still.

[Boges]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They're good for some people. I'm glad they are an option. They're PROBABLY the way of the future unless the problems of hydrogen get solved. But they are a little niche still.

I think Hydrogen tech is important. But like with Lithium it makes a lot of energy to produce. 

So ultimately the key here is to make more energy green. So either storing existing Green Energy (more battery type tech) or expanding it. 

EV's don't become mainstream if we don't also continue to invest in a greener grid. Most of the developed world have pushed coal out, I don't see Natural Gas reliance ending anytime soon, it's how most of us heat our homes. 

[CdnFox]

Just now, Boges said:

I think Hydrogen tech is important. But like with Lithium it makes a lot of energy to produce. 

Neither are ideal.  I don't think that's the 'final form' of either to be honest. The tech still evolving and we're almost but not quite there for wide spread adaption.  Basically we could more accurately say that its between a "new fuel and new storage" option for electricity.

 

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

So ultimately the key here is to make more energy green. So either storing existing Green Energy (more battery type tech) or expanding it. 

Sure - obviously that has advantages - there are some advantages to 'electrified fuel' shall we call it.  We'll see how it goes. I think batteries will get there before electric fuel does but i could be wrong.

 

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

EV's don't become mainstream if we don't also continue to invest in a greener grid. Most of the developed world have pushed coal out, I don't see Natural Gas reliance ending anytime soon, it's how most of us heat our homes.

Well - just to be contrarian the former NDP premier of bc who just stepped down last year just joined the board of a coal mining company    and the cities have been fighting back against the use of natural gas in many areas,  to the point where in vancouver the gov't was actualy accused of 'banning' natural gas.

I dunno - ndp supporting coal and the right wing party against natural gas,  dogs and cats sleeping together, who knows what's next.

[Boges]

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well - just to be contrarian the former NDP premier of bc who just stepped down last year just joined the board of a coal mining company    and the cities have been fighting back against the use of natural gas in many areas,  to the point where in vancouver the gov't was actualy accused of 'banning' natural gas.

I dunno - ndp supporting coal and the right wing party against natural gas,  dogs and cats sleeping together, who knows what's next.

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Most provinces have already banned Coal. 

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Boges said:

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Most provinces have already banned Coal. 

China hasn't.

[Boges]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

China hasn't.

No, but China has also invested more in Green Energy than most other places. Their EV adoption blows the West out of the water. 

China has the unenviable task of trying to a country of a billion people out of poverty without the natural resources to do it like a Western Nation. 

[ironstone]

2 minutes ago, Boges said:

No, but China has also invested more in Green Energy than most other places. Their EV adoption blows the West out of the water. 

China has the unenviable task of trying to a country of a billion people out of poverty without the natural resources to do it like a Western Nation. 

China still has a long way to go.

Report: China emissions exceed all developed nations combined - BBC News

China, world's largest polluter, approves most coal plants in seven years - The Washington Post

It seems emissions from China are just fine though.

How China, the biggest annual climate polluter, avoids paying for the damage - The Washington Post

[CdnFox]

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

No, but China has also invested more in Green Energy than most other places. Their EV adoption blows the West out of the water. 

They still produce some of the worlds highest levels of CO. They have a LOT of coal power.

10 minutes ago, Boges said:

China has the unenviable task of trying to a country of a billion people out of poverty without the natural resources to do it like a Western Nation. 

Sure - not blaming them, just pointing out where the coal goes.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Boges said:

This also assumes you have a garage

I don't, hence the inconvenience.

But the carbon tax will have me biking all summer, so should thank Trudeau for making me fit. 

[herbie]

Yeah that 3c is going to kill us all.

But you could get even healthier, the increase is almost one chocolate bar a week. I mean for those of us that can still afford one or a cup of shitty gas station coffee.

[Perspektiv]

49 minutes ago, herbie said:

I mean for those of us that can still afford one or a cup of shitty gas station coffee.

Yummy, grinds still in it, and all. Goes great with calcinated toast and past before date creamer. 

50 minutes ago, herbie said:

Yeah that 3c is going to kill us all.

I still don't understand its benefit. Someone please explain. How is this not just using fear mongering to justify gouging us?

[ironstone]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Yeah that 3c is going to kill us all.

But you could get even healthier, the increase is almost one chocolate bar a week. I mean for those of us that can still afford one or a cup of shitty gas station coffee.

Don't you believe that carbon taxes make everything more expensive? It's rather flippant to say it's only 3c when the cost to transport goods keeps going up as does the cost of those goods.

Take Canada out of the equation and China's rising emissions will more than compensate for ours. Many times over.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Yummy, grinds still in it, and all.

You mean the "high fibre' blend? Why you're lucky you don't have to pay extra for that!

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Goes great with calcinated toast and past before date creamer. 

Frosted. Frosted toast. And 'aged' creamer.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I still don't understand its benefit. Someone please explain. How is this not just using fear mongering to justify gouging us?

The WeSaySo Party appreciates your feedback. Now shut up and eat your breakfast peon.

[herbie]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I still don't understand its benefit. Someone please explain. How is this not just using fear mongering to justify gouging us?

A> supposedly to get you to reduce your peronal carbon footprint

B> get revenue, which otherwise would come from somewhere else, like would you prefer a 3% income tax increase every year? Something you have no level of control over?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

get revenue, which otherwise would come from somewhere else, like would you prefer a 3% income tax increase every year? Something you have no level of control over?

We have no control over the carbon tax either. And it goes up every year too. By more than 5 percent.

[herbie]

And the thread is about Ontario needing to invest in EVs which it does unless it wants to kiss away its entire auto sector like Australia did. So let's give up talking about the carbon tax and the myriad of problems that need to be solved or we will all be f***ed.

 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

And the thread is about Ontario needing to invest in EVs which it does unless it wants to kiss away its entire auto sector like Australia did. So let's give up talking about the carbon tax and the myriad of problems that need to be solved or we will all be f***ed.

 

 

Sure - i was responding to you, i wasn't emotionally  invested in discussing it right now

I don't know there's much more to say tho. At the end of the day the tech just isn't there and i'm not sure we're seeing it's 'final form' if you will. I think it's good to proceed with some decent provisioning and encouragement  and i do believe that electrification is the way of the future one way or another, but we're not really ready for full scale adoption i think, And trying to force it is more likely to set us back.

[ironstone]

10 hours ago, herbie said:

And the thread is about Ontario needing to invest in EVs which it does unless it wants to kiss away its entire auto sector like Australia did. So let's give up talking about the carbon tax and the myriad of problems that need to be solved or we will all be f***ed.

 

 

So you guys are heavily in favor of subsidizing huge corporations and at the same time, heavily in favor of taxing the little guy so it makes day to day living very expensive?

[Boges]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

So you guys are heavily in favor of subsidizing huge corporations and at the same time, heavily in favor of taxing the little guy so it makes day to day living very expensive?

You get a lot of that money back with a Rebate. 

And Oil companies and Car companies get subsidized all the time. 

Subsidizing big corporations for setting up shop in your town/jurisdiction is a cottage industry. 

Edited April 4, 2023 by Boges

[CdnFox]

44 minutes ago, Boges said:

 

And Oil companies and Car companies get subsidized all the time. 

Subsidizing big corporation for setting up shop in your town/jurisdiction is a cottage industry. 

( I mean, he's not wrong... )

[ironstone]

48 minutes ago, Boges said:

You get a lot of that money back with a Rebate. 

At the end of the day, most of us will end up paying out a lot more. The rebates are a shell game.

Price on carbon will outstrip rebates, watchdog says | The Star

OTTAWA, ON: The Canadian Taxpayers Federation is correcting the record as the federal government sends out carbon tax rebates on Jan. 15.

“The Parliamentary Budget Officer shows politicians are using magic math to sell their carbon tax,” said Franco Terrazzano, Federal Director of the CTF. “The PBO is clear: the carbon tax costs families hundreds of dollars more than the rebates they get back.”

The Trudeau government claims “families are going to be better off” with its carbon tax and rebates. However, a PBO report shows this is incorrect. 

The carbon tax will cost the average household between $402 and $847 in 2023, even after the rebates, according to the PBO. The cost depends on the province.   

[ironstone]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

( I mean, he's not wrong... )

He isn't wrong about that. I know a lot of industries end up with subsidies whether we like it or not. In this case, taxpayers are subsidizing an EV plant to build vehicles that have relied heavily on taxpayer subsidies in order to get people to buy them.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, ironstone said:

He isn't wrong about that. I know a lot of industries end up with subsidies whether we like it or not. In this case, taxpayers are subsidizing an EV plant to build vehicles that have relied heavily on taxpayer subsidies in order to get people to buy them.

Sure. Or they can buy ICE vehicles which use gasoline made from our oil which we HEAVILY subsidized for almost a decade

I'm not a big fan of corporate subsidies (and really that's not the right term so much - usually it's just tax relief) but sometimes you have to prime the pump a little if you want the water to flow naturally.

I think if you don't make the current generation EV's at least a viable option for a significant part of the population, then you wind up shutting down the car maker's research and investment into future tech. And ice vehicles ARE a dead end for us eventually.

[ironstone]

Just got through 3 days without power here. Had to rely on my ICE generator to keep some things running.

Things are going to get so bad as consumers are coerced to buy more EV's with all that extra demand on the grid.?

[OftenWrong]

This article caught my attention. Never mind Boges, here is a reality check from a man in the streets-

I drove from Toronto to Montreal in an EV

I will give a few highlights.

"Our 550-kilometre drive to Montreal took – I’m embarrassed to admit this – nearly eight hours. Yes, one way."

"In the cold, and driving on winter tires at speeds of about 100 kilometres an hour, the range of our car was noticeably lower. I faced a reduced range below 300 km."

"Include a safety buffer – I like to keep at least a 20-per-cent charge, just in case – and my actual range was considerably less, forcing me to stop three times on each leg of the journey."

 

The sad tale of a man simply trying to take his wife and child to Montreal and back. He was basically getting about 200 km driving range.

Not only that, he drove the 401 at a mere 100 km/h. Musta gotten cut off and the finger dozens of times...

They also had trouble with the fast-chargers, taking up to 1/2 hour just to hit 80% charge level. Can't go more than that, it burns them out. Just like I said about fast chargers, they're bad for your battery. 

And also as I said earlier- these batteries dont work well in the cold. They cannot hold enough charge. You get some real cold nasty weather, a couple of passengers and some heavy tires and you'll soon be traveling "on a wing and a prayer."