Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.

[Guest]

On 3/22/2023 at 6:19 PM, OftenWrong said:

That's why I've advocated this a few times to you dunderheads- Bring back the horse!  

That would end any argument about green vehicles.

"My Tesla XE has a range of 840 miles. My touch screen is 14" "My carbon footprint has dropped 15% since my purchase. I eat sustainably farmed kale and vegan bacon. What have you done for this world?"

I have a horse.

[ironstone]

Another thing to consider about EV's is the insurance aspect and what happens when the car and the huge battery sustain damage. Here is what the insurance companies are doing:

This Just Killed the Future of Electric Cars - YouTube

Yes, the titles of many of these videos are misleading compared to the actual content. But the content of this short video gives us something else to think about with governments around the world pushing hard for EV's.

[CdnFox]

18 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

That would end any argument about green vehicles.

"My Tesla XE has a range of 840 miles. My touch screen is 14" "My carbon footprint has dropped 15% since my purchase. I eat sustainably farmed kale and vegan bacon. What have you done for this world?"

I have a horse.

I don't know ....  I tried using what i was told was an 'environmentally friendly'  horse once. It didn't go well.  It seemed like there was only one charging port available so i tried that.  WHAM! Kicked right in the nuts.

Until i figure out how to disable the security system on them i just don't see them as a popular option,.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Another thing to consider about EV's is the insurance aspect and what happens when the car and the huge battery sustain damage. Here is what the insurance companies are doing:

This Just Killed the Future of Electric Cars - YouTube

Yes, the titles of many of these videos are misleading compared to the actual content. But the content of this short video gives us something else to think about with governments around the world pushing hard for EV's.

Or if you want to repair your own car to keep costs down. 

You should look into the Monopoly that Tesla has on this.

[Boges]

On 3/24/2023 at 1:23 PM, ironstone said:

Another thing to consider about EV's is the insurance aspect and what happens when the car and the huge battery sustain damage. Here is what the insurance companies are doing:

My insurance isn't much more than a traditional ICE vehicle. They're still ultimately insuring the value of a car, and that's a flat figure. 

I also suspect EVs aren't as sought after for theft as they usually get sent to the developed world. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Boges

[Boges]

On 3/24/2023 at 2:59 PM, Perspektiv said:

Or if you want to repair your own car to keep costs down. 

You should look into the Monopoly that Tesla has on this.

You don't think all Car makers are making it next to impossible to repair your own car? 

All cars are portable computers now. The problem with Teslas is that they're poorly made and they don't have very many actually service locations. So some guy has to come see you. 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Boges said:

You don't think all Car makers are making it next to impossible to repair your own car? 

To an extended this is where things are headed. 

But I can still fix my own spark plug, belts if I gave time, change my own oil, etc. 

Basic repairs I can still do. 

I saw a documentary on Tesla and another on farm equipment. They both are now so high tech, some of the repairs are now done via software and programming along with hardware addition. 

Many farmers repair their own machines, to keep costs down, are now forced to fork out thousands for minor repairs for something silly like a 120$ part. 

Hopefully this isn't the unintended consequence of electrification. 

Where you are stuck between a handful of monopolies, to use their machines or plugs. 

And for repairs, being forced to subcontract work where costs are high. You'd be taking out service departments along with the aftermarket industry.

[Boges]

10 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

To an extended this is where things are headed. 

But I can still fix my own spark plug, belts if I gave time, change my own oil, etc. 

Basic repairs I can still do. 

I saw a documentary on Tesla and another on farm equipment. They both are now so high tech, some of the repairs are now done via software and programming along with hardware addition. 

Many farmers repair their own machines, to keep costs down, are now forced to fork out thousands for minor repairs for something silly like a 120$ part. 

Hopefully this isn't the unintended consequence of electrification. 

Where you are stuck between a handful of monopolies, to use their machines or plugs. 

And for repairs, being forced to subcontract work where costs are high. You'd be taking out service departments along with the aftermarket industry.

You already see this with the stupid and dreaded Check Engine Light. You can buy a device that'll tell you what the Code means, but likely can't fix it without access to advanced electronics. 

The good thing about EVs is that they don't need a lot of upkeep because they're basically an electronic motor, battery, four wheels and a computer. 

BUT the bones are still like a normal car, so you'll still need to buy the traditional car Battery, Wipers, Tires, Brakes, Washer Fluid, Cabin Air Filter. So parts will still be important, just not so many parts. 

My father-in-law has a hobby of flipping old cars. This hobby will be increasingly impossible, in the future, the only way to fix up an old car is with a computer. 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Boges

[herbie]

Have you never owned a newer car?

Open the hood and there's a big plastic cover over the engine with a sticker that says 'close the hood, stupid, its too complex for the likes of you!' on it?
Half the parts are plastic that will crunch if you torque the bolt 1 ft/lb over, you need to pull the engine to change a timing belt and remove 100 hoses and cable to change a spark plug.

That's why the opposition, far less gouging in the dealer service dept. And they already convinced half of people that an electric motor like you learned to build in Grade 9 cost more than a V-12 and 10 spd transmission.

[ironstone]

8 hours ago, Boges said:

My insurance isn't much more than a traditional ICE vehicle. They're still ultimately insuring the value of a car, and that's a flat figure. 

I also suspect EVs aren't as sought after for theft as they usually get sent to the developed world. 

According to the video I watched (Scotty Kilmer) he was suggesting that it's more likely that EV's will be written off if they sustain any kind of damage to the batteries.

 

[Boges]

15 hours ago, ironstone said:

According to the video I watched (Scotty Kilmer) he was suggesting that it's more likely that EV's will be written off if they sustain any kind of damage to the batteries.

 

I don't know why you keep citing that guy. He's a loon-bat. 

Remember, Lithium Ion Battery is usually in the floor of the car, not the engine or trunk. So it's unlikely that a fender bender will destroy the battery. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Boges

[ironstone]

10 hours ago, Boges said:

I don't know why you keep citing that guy. He's a loon-bat. 

Remember, Lithium Ion Battery is usually in the floor of the car, not the engine or trunk. So it's unlikely that a fender bender will destroy the battery. 

I admitted his headlines were over the top, but are you suggesting he doesn't know an awful lot about cars?

 

[ironstone]

10 hours ago, Boges said:

Remember, Lithium Ion Battery is usually in the floor of the car, not the engine or trunk. So it's unlikely that a fender bender will destroy the battery. 

Scotty Kilmer is not the only one reporting on this.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-to-junk-the-whole-car-1.6320744

Tesla EVs, Even Mildly Damaged, Being Written Off by Insurers (caranddriver.com)

Why damaged batteries may result in the total write-off of electric cars by insurers (thenationalnews.com)

[OftenWrong]

11 hours ago, Boges said:

Lithium Ion Battery is usually in the floor of the car

There's nothing like a hot metal fire right under your ass.

I understand they cannot be extinguished, by conventional means

There won't be any remains left in an EV car fire

But at least you did 

protect the environment?

[Boges]

7 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

There's nothing like a hot metal fire right under your ass.

I understand they cannot be extinguished, by conventional means

There won't be any remains left in an EV car fire

But at least you did 

protect the environment?

And you've been told multiple times, in this thread, that EVs are far less likely to combust that traditional ICE vehicles. 

[Boges]

14 hours ago, ironstone said:

Scotty Kilmer is not the only one reporting on this.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/autos/scratched-ev-battery-your-insurer-may-have-to-junk-the-whole-car-1.6320744

Tesla EVs, Even Mildly Damaged, Being Written Off by Insurers (caranddriver.com)

Why damaged batteries may result in the total write-off of electric cars by insurers (thenationalnews.com)

Two of those articles focus on Tesla. 

Tesla has its own unique problems with service. It treats cars like an iPhone. It's probably advantageous for them to just get a new car. 

I'm also confident Tesla isn't just throwing a car with a broken battery into the landfill. 

[Boges]

15 hours ago, ironstone said:

I admitted his headlines were over the top, but are you suggesting he doesn't know an awful lot about cars?

Maybe I'm prejudiced, but I can't get over his delivery. 

And yeah, it pisses me off when I click on a video telling me "This is why EVs are Crap" and he mentions and easily irrefutable issue for 3 minutes and moves on to something else. 

I clicked on this video for a comprehensive take-down of EVs, so Eff you, you hick!  

[herbie]

The titles and openings of Scotty's YouTubes are simple clickbait. Rarely 30 seconds on the title subject, then onto letters from customers.

His objections about EVs boils down to the fact they're new, he hasn't had 50 years of experience dealing with them and isn't even confidently qualified to talk about them. And he does like to repeat the usual ojections we've seen on this thread. That you can't drive one 1000 miles nonstop, which they're not intended to do and that there is not yet 100% of the grid capacity to convert 100% overnight so therefore there never can or will be. Same old same old.

Yeah they are new, there's no track record. Windows 8 was new and had no track record, but that doesn't mean Windows 10 was doomed to be NFG for the same reasons.

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2023 by herbie

[ironstone]

6 hours ago, herbie said:

The titles and openings of Scotty's YouTubes are simple clickbait. Rarely 30 seconds on the title subject, then onto letters from customers.

His objections about EVs boils down to the fact they're new, he hasn't had 50 years of experience dealing with them and isn't even confidently qualified to talk about them. And he does like to repeat the usual ojections we've seen on this thread. That you can't drive one 1000 miles nonstop, which they're not intended to do and that there is not yet 100% of the grid capacity to convert 100% overnight so therefore there never can or will be. Same old same old.

Yeah they are new, there's no track record. Windows 8 was new and had no track record, but that doesn't mean Windows 10 was doomed to be NFG for the same reasons.

 

 

 

He actually has different kinds of videos. Some are how-to, troubleshooting, brands to buy and avoid. He also has more comprehensive videos which talk about the latest developments in the automotive world. Product reviews as well. I would say he is more knowledgeable about EV's than most people as well.

I sometimes watch another channel called "Engineering Explained" where the host fairly points out the pros and cons of the different approaches of the auto companies. Worth checking out.

[Guest]

I must admit the new Ford Explorer EV is looking quite sharp. The moment it is sold here, I'll be on that waiting list, for sure. I'm personally on the fence with regards to an EV, but the right model, right range, and will likely make one my next car. My car still has value to it, and if I'm selling it, the time is now.

 

[reason10]

On 8/9/2021 at 12:29 PM, Boges said:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/2021/08/09/ontario-is-undermining-its-vision-of-being-an-electric-vehicle-manufacturing-centre.html

DoFo should recognize where the Global winds are blowing. Invest in EV infrastructure an incentivize car-buyers to buy an EV as their next car. 

He risks damaging the Ontario Auto Sector as that's where the Big 3 are moving their focus in the coming years. 

As the Article mentions, Ontario has the Natural resources to help move from Fossil Fuel infrastructure to Battery development and manufacturing. The rest of the country is way ahead of us on this. 

Across the 401 there are OnRoute rest-stop, none have DC Fast Chargers. This is a no-brainer to help make Ontario a more EV friendly market.

Real market ECONOMICS 101 LESSON.

The LAST thing you want is ANY government investing in ANY private sector consumer item. EVERY time that happens, an inferior product is created and it costs ten times what it would in the free market.

Today, Electric Vehicles are impractical. They cost a fortune. Their batteries are more expensive than the car. Their travel range is limited and refueling takes hours. They are powered SOLELY by fossil fuels, so there is ZERO carbon reduction to be achieved.

(As if that were important.) GM admits its EVs are powered 95 percent by coal. And Electric Vehicles mean SLAVERY and toxic waste dumps for the lithium.

That isn't to say that EVs will NEVER be viable. Michael Crichton said that when the market is ready, new forms of renewable energy will come on line.

Right now, EVs are expensive, they pollute and they are dangerous.

The earliest internal combustion automobiles were a similar breed. They polluted a lot, dumped tons of lead on the streets, didn't have much in the way of safety equipment, and they didn't have that far of a driving range due to low gas mileage. But the FREE MARKET managed to evolve the internal combustion engine automobile to the very safe, very energy efficient and very pleasant means of transportation it is today.

The ONLY thing that will make EVS affordable, economical to run, less polluting and less dangerous is TECHNOLOGY which can ONLY be found in the FREE MARKET.

Right now, affordable EVs represent March, and Christmas is a long way away. You have to wait those months and let the market do its job. It's IRRESPONSIBLE for government to try to get to the presents tomorrow.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, reason10 said:

Real market ECONOMICS 101 LESSON.

The LAST thing you want is ANY government investing in ANY private sector consumer item. EVERY time that happens, an inferior product is created and it costs ten times what it would in the free market.

 

 

That's not WRONG entirely - but it's not quite right either.

Gov'ts do badly investing IN things, but they often hit the mark when they spend money to support an industry or make it easier for that industry to bloom.

The oil industry in alberta would be an example of that - gov't didn't invest but the feds did offer massive tax rebates and other incentives for companies to expand exploraton etc and we got the great oil booms of the 90's etc.

In this case, the gov't could do a number of things to help the EV industry without ruining it. Investment in infrastructure, reduction of costs for certain things, these could actually have some sort of positive impact. If done right obviously, as always the devil is in the details.

[reason10]

8 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's not WRONG entirely - but it's not quite right either.

Gov'ts do badly investing IN things, but they often hit the mark when they spend money to support an industry or make it easier for that industry to bloom.

The oil industry in alberta would be an example of that - gov't didn't invest but the feds did offer massive tax rebates and other incentives for companies to expand exploraton etc and we got the great oil booms of the 90's etc.

In this case, the gov't could do a number of things to help the EV industry without ruining it. Investment in infrastructure, reduction of costs for certain things, these could actually have some sort of positive impact. If done right obviously, as always the devil is in the details.

The United States government wasn't needed to invest in infrastructure for gasoline powered cars. Gas stations from the private sector were going up all over the place to fill the demand. Right now, inefficient charging stations are taking up a lot of that space.

The Eisenhower Interstate Highway system was a defense plan, more than an efficient road system for cars.

Governments do well enough to enforce laws and protect the rights of the innocent. If governments would just stick to that, we'd all be a lot better off.

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, reason10 said:

The United States government wasn't needed to invest in infrastructure for gasoline powered cars.

Yeah they were. Who told you that? Where did you think the roads came from? You think they all had the traffic lines and stop signs etc we see today? 

Not to mention they've had to bail out the car industries many times.  And they absolutely did get involved in oil and gas infrastructure. 

And we notice when they don't - how's that keystone pipeline that the gov't opposes going? Turns out that ran across a lot of gov't land.  When gov'ts have been open to it and have given up the access to gov't land - no problem.

You are 100 percent wrong there - the gov't played a large role in that.  And looking to Canada our whole country was built on the promise of the gov't building railways and eventually roadways.

So - in effect that's a good example. Gov't didn't invest in cars - but because it invested in other things cars really took off.

 

[Boges]

On 4/1/2023 at 5:16 AM, Perspektiv said:

I must admit the new Ford Explorer EV is looking quite sharp. The moment it is sold here, I'll be on that waiting list, for sure. I'm personally on the fence with regards to an EV, but the right model, right range, and will likely make one my next car. My car still has value to it, and if I'm selling it, the time is now.

 

This is the thing right? 

JT just bumped Gas Prices again over the weekend. Nothing that'll bankrupt anyone but there doesn't seem to be a political movement to scrap Carbon pricing. 

No one should feel the need to sell their newish ICE vehicle to jump on the bandwagon today. But if you're in the market, and I was in 2020, if it makes sense for you, it's a good investment on cost savings going forward. 

If you're buying a new car, you're likely already committing to a $30k plus sticker price. We've gone over ones that are cheaper, but they're not the best cars. So why not make the investment in reducing some of the ongoing costs of keeping a car on the road?  

This also assumes you have a garage to charge and another ICE car would help (not essential though).

And the cool thing about the EV is that its usage will reduce the wear and tear on your older ICE vehicle, as you'll likely be using your EV for most daily tasks. 

Edited April 3, 2023 by Boges