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Ontario needs to invest in EVs as a realistic Option.


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The logic is there to push for improvements that will in themselves make people switch.

When tape players seemed foolish to use, vs a compact disc, people made the switch.

MP3 players when running, vs that disc, regardless of ESP features to help reduce skipping. It made no sense to continue with that antiquated technology.

The logic go pressure this unprepared technology onto people will mean once there is no choice, the demand will skyrocket and there won't be sufficient supply of electricity to supply to all that need it. 

Either that, or people will flock to car makers who still offer them what they would like to drive.

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Boges depends on the scavenger classes, to pick up his waste. The waste of the elite is gold to them.

Of course we need to get something better than fossil fuels, for many reasons. It requires a transformation technically and economically. Petrol companies are threatened by this and will seek to protect their interests.

THe real concern for me is government intervention and imposing unachievable deadines. That's classic government bungling, and I see it coming our way in their EV rollout plans. Hopefully the government will be sued by industry and private citizens to allow ICE vehicle sales to continue.

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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

He real concern for me is government intervention and imposing unachievable deadines. That's classic government bungling, and I see it coming our way in their EV rollout plans.

One of those rare occasions that we agree. This is what i was saying earlier - that sure, electricity is probalby the way of the future when the tech matures and sure, we should be moving to cleaner solutions as fast as the technology advancements allow and yeah - for some people right now EV's may be a very good choice ...

BUT - imposing false and impractical timelines to force change unnaturally is a very bad idea and tends to hinder the process of tech development. You never saw a gov't rule requiring all horse sales  to be replaced with cars :) People just moved over when it made sense,

Edited by CdnFox
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3 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Who really knows wtf you were saying earlier. No one has time to rifle through the reams of drivel you post, daily.

;)

Well sure, for people like you who can only read by sounding out each letter it's a real burden.  :)  I'll try to include more pictures ?

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3 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Well sure, for people like you who can only read by sounding out each letter it's a real burden.  :)  I'll try to include more pictures ?

You're here like 24/7, right? Never ending, immediate drivel. How is that even possible.

Either you're a meth-head, or Asian chat-bot sent to disrupt our intellectual discourse.

Which is it?

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9 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You're here like 24/7, right? Never ending, immediate drivel. How is that even possible.

Well between computers and cell phones and such it's pretty easy. And in reality if you look i'm actually not here for large patches of time.

But - it SEEMS like a lot to YOU because you're slightly below average intellectually and it feels like it would be a lot of effort to post that much. In reality it takes me just a moment or two for most of my posts. I just think faster and type faster than you :)  (Ok - in fairness i use voice dictation a fair bit so maybe i don't type faster) .

11 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Either you're a meth-head, or Asian chat-bot sent to disrupt our intellectual discourse.

You've got me confused with your mother :) LOLOL

Hey i'm sorry it's such a burden for you to post here. Maybe try typing with THREE fingers and see how that goes

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1 hour ago, herbie said:

Driving.ca - The Chevy Bolt is now GM's best selling "car" in Canada

More on the Chevy Bolt from Driving.ca:

Chevy offering Bolt customers rebates to tamp out American lawsuits | Driving

Chevy Bolt EV subject to Canadian class-action over batteries | Driving

GM has cut the price a bit in the US but in Canada it's still a $40,000 car.

I used to check out Driving.ca once a week or so in the past but I just lost interest in the site. Looking at it right now I can see I haven't missed much.

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21 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

If you're pressuring people to adopt it, shouldn't it be always that this is the case?

Thats fair, but if the overall footprint of the car is similar, how is this taking a step forward?

IE Where the engine, glass and metals of the vehicle get recycled, but same old for the tires, or in the event of an EV, parts of the engine that are impossible to recycle.

EV batteries can be recycled.

https://www.globaltechenvironmental.com/recycling-services/battery-recycling/hybrid-ev/?gclid=CjwKCAjwiOCgBhAgEiwAjv5whCgZVJUHNcPzW0GjTCy9JHVccuoev5G5fkQDZRqLLzdpgp_uqQN17hoC1tUQAvD_BwE

Again there are so few defunct EVs on the market now that it's not yet that lucrative. I suspect the majority of modern EVs ever made are still on the road. 

Widespread EV adoption won't happen until there's a viable Used car market. You can get a used EV but the technology is changing so fast it would be like getting an original iPhone. 

I imagine, like with Smartphones, we'll reach a point where the tech is about as good as it's going to get a newer models aren't that much different than older ones. 

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21 hours ago, OftenWrong said:

THe real concern for me is government intervention and imposing unachievable deadines. That's classic government bungling, and I see it coming our way in their EV rollout plans.

As we see from the news last week from St. Thomas. Private companies are more than eager to lean on the public teet to help with setting up shop. 

What's wrong with governments dictating what type of industry gets that kind of help. 

Quote

Hopefully the government will be sued by industry and private citizens to allow ICE vehicle sales to continue.

Have you seen any indication that's where it's going? Most automakers trying to catch up to Tesla. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

As we see from the news last week from St. Thomas. Private companies are more than eager to lean on the public teet to help with setting up shop. 

What's wrong with governments dictating what type of industry gets that kind of help. 

Have you seen any indication that's where it's going? Most automakers trying to catch up to Tesla. 

You don't understand the difference between stimulating industry to voluntarily make changes, and Government mandating and setting hard deadlines.

Or like a wise man once said,

"The most terrifying phrase you will ever hear is, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

-R. Reagan OftenWrong.

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19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

You don't understand the difference between stimulating industry to voluntarily make changes, and Government mandating and setting hard deadlines.

Or like a wise man once said,

"The most terrifying phrase you will ever hear is, 'I'm from the government, and I'm here to help."

-R. Reagan OftenWrong.

Someone's view on the move to electrification matches their view on Climate Change. 

If one feels Climate Change is an imminent thread to society, these mandate are required. Most, if not all developed democracies are on board with electrification OR using Hydrogen for our Transportation system. 

 

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9 hours ago, Boges said:

EV batteries can be recycled.

That's not the argument. In the industry as a whole, a significant portion of what makes up a car battery, goes to waste. A minute portion of the battery industry wide, cannot be recycled.

This is the equivalent of banning plastic bag, but continuing to sell garbage bags. What do you think people will use for similar needs? Garbage bags, which have far more plastic in them per bag.

It just looks good on paper, or to the government bodies who will gladly tax you based on this "incentive".

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Without mandates you wouldn't have seat belts, safety glass and still have drum brakes.

We just saw a 20 year lag because the USA didn't mandate daytime running lights like Canada did. And of course instead of moving 1 wire, they strung in $20 worth of LEDs and upped the car price $1000.

We tell the gov't what to do, the gov't tells business what to do. Not the other way around

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11 hours ago, herbie said:

Without mandates you wouldn't have seat belts, safety glass and still have drum brakes.

We just saw a 20 year lag because the USA didn't mandate daytime running lights like Canada did. And of course instead of moving 1 wire, they strung in $20 worth of LEDs and upped the car price $1000.

We tell the gov't what to do, the gov't tells business what to do. Not the other way around

This is true. In Canada, The US and much of Europe parties that acknowledge Climate change are being elected at a Federal level. That speaks to the customer base. 

I know that Car makers make decisions on design based on laws passed in California because it's the largest market in the largest economy on Earth. Who cares that Coal miners in West Virginia don't want to buy EVs. Wealthy people in California do. 

Edited by Boges
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15 hours ago, herbie said:

Without mandates you wouldn't have seat belts, safety glass and still have drum brakes.

These are all life saving safety features. 

I think the death tolls that happened prior to them being mandated, had more to do with it. 

Same reason that backup cameras are now the law for all sold vehicles in some places. 

Sensors included, to hopefully prevent the running over of people and silly parking lot accidents.

Same thing with the window regulators on cars which could suffocate an unrestrained child.

EVs are more of a choice, than a life saving need. 

You can mandate it all you wish, but until the technology is desirable to clients, they will continue to buy ICE vehicles. 

 

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35 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

And it's actually wrong. We had seat belts before mandates.

Fair enough. Mind you, it's common sense. I have been to countries where this is not the norm.

Its also the norm, to see 40 to 50km/h crashes turn fatal, due to it, as bodies fly out of the front or side windows. 

With belts, the crash would have been survivable. 

EVs will take far longer to be adopted, as there isn't a massive risk in continuing to drive them in comparison.

ICEs are way cheaper up front. The bulk of the planet will never be able to afford an EV.

Your mission statement should be

-Affordable EVs, sourced sustainably, charged responsibly, and fully recyclable.

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12 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Your mission statement should be

-Affordable EVs, sourced sustainably, charged responsibly, and fully recyclable.

Dude that's almost identical to the packaging on my fish :)

but yes. Honestly tho i think the tech isn't quite there - we're just not ready yet for widespread adaptation. It's coming but it's not quite got it yet. Like the steam engine before the ICE. It was in use, it COULD be used, but just too problematic for widespread adaption outside of specific circumstances. I think we're one or two breakthroughs away from a true solution that meets all your critera.

In the meantime i do support it's use where it IS a good option and viable, and i think we should support that.  I just don't think we should expect too much from the tech just yet.

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1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Dude that's almost identical to the packaging on my fish :)

but yes. Honestly tho i think the tech isn't quite there - we're just not ready yet for widespread adaptation. It's coming but it's not quite got it yet. Like the steam engine before the ICE. It was in use, it COULD be used, but just too problematic for widespread adaption outside of specific circumstances. I think we're one or two breakthroughs away from a true solution that meets all your critera.

In the meantime i do support it's use where it IS a good option and viable, and i think we should support that.  I just don't think we should expect too much from the tech just yet.

I am in a position where I could comfortably afford a BMW, Audi, Volvo, etc.

For the price of a gorgeous EV, am getting a mid to top range offering of the above brands. 

It just makes no sense to me, and believe me, I would be all over it it it made sense as the new Volvo XC90 EV appealed to me quite a bit (regarding its tech).

For me, critical is range.

I need to be able to drive 5 to 6 hours at 130km/h, with AC or heat cranked, without issues to even consider it.

Most vehicles out would make me nervous. I can do that drive with my car, and still have tons of fuel left over.

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